VectorLinux

The nuts and bolts => Technical General => Topic started by: haywire on June 19, 2011, 05:39:52 pm

Title: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 19, 2011, 05:39:52 pm

Allright, I give up, time to give switching to xbuntu another go.

There I can have cinelerra, chrome, and anything else I may want point and click install without hair pulling or major aggravation.

I'm sure the developers and packagers do the very best they can, so I hope they don't take my critiscisms to heart.

1) I believe I've been hearing "That will be addressed in vector 7.0" about many things for over a year. The xfce 4 build is buggy and crashes occasionally by itself or especially when run with compiz. This happens on 4 computers I tried. Its not a hardware problem, there is a real problem with the build. Since it crashes without compiz, on different computers, different video cards and so on, its obviously a problem. XFCE is the core of the gui/user interface. I would think fixing this would be high priority, but people say downgrade to the last stable xfce. Xfce 4 is stable on other distros, why not in vector? Its the heart of the user interface, yet vector developers just ignore this for how long now?

2) Software availability. I've used vector for years, but Its awfully aggravating watching so many other distros having common things point and click install and staying with vector and having to make software from source or aggravate myself trying to do slackbuild installs. Granted I'm sure I learned alot more about linux that way. Maybe that was good for me, but its probably time to move on. Other distros have cinelerra, vector 7 will, but you have to buy a multimedia upgrade cd from a third party. Thats fine, but I've already bought vector cd's in the past and supported vector, now a third party wants cash so I can finally run the one decent video app available for linux? And when can I finally do this? Been waiting over a year already. The announcement about the multimedia upgrade cd came what 6 or 8 months ago? maybe more? But still I wait.

3) Lack of compiz support. Compiz works like a pig in vector, on the same hardware that ubuntu, mepis,debian, arch, and more work great. Crash crash crash goes the vector compiz. Compiz is the future UI of linux. Not supporting it fully leaves vector in the realm of the oldschool linux distros. The fact that it crashes all the time in vector but almost never on other distros speaks volumes. Apparently compiz is not a priority for vector linux, but that also speaks volumes.

I've learned a tremendous amount about linux by using vector over the years. I'm sure I may check in and see how 7.0 goes, but I need to get work done now, not next year. I just want to get things done on my computer, creative things mostly. I don't have the time or the energy to fight with slackbuilds, source tarballs and so on. Maybe my patience is the problem, but having used vector on one of my computers for 5+ years, always hoping these things would improve, but I don't think they have much. I think I've been patient enough. I wish you all the best of luck though.
Another thing, my critiscisms are meant to perhaps teach you why people give up and move on. I don't mean them to be vicious or overly critical. These are real concerns I have raised.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: hata_ph on June 19, 2011, 07:56:04 pm
What xubuntu have compare to VL is man power. There is not much developer/tester working on VL7.
BTW, compiz maybe a WOW factor for LINUX but is not the whole things of LINUX. I never use compiz on LINUX and don't think will use it in the future.
VL/LINUX is about choices and that why there is so many LINUX distro out there.

I wish you farewell and hope you can find the LINUX distro that suite your need.  ;)
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 19, 2011, 09:31:37 pm
So far xbuntu sucks. Window decorations vanish on compiz, can't get the compiz cube going, looks like just 2 desktops.
Google and find 25 different fixes for title bar/window decoration, so far nothing is working to fix it.

Your right compiz is not all of linux, but its interface and way of working is beautiful, and I want that.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: pierce.jason on June 19, 2011, 09:40:46 pm
Too bad you won't be sticking around the community to help bring up and debug those issues that you mention. People to test and people to break things is just what VL needs to step up to the next level of quality.

But even more importantly than that, people who'll report and debug in conjunction with the developers inorder to find the root of the problem.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 19, 2011, 09:54:30 pm
I'd be damned happy to help fix those things, no one ever asked me to help. They gave excuses for the problems.

Also, no one ever offered me an advance on 7. I'd have helped with that Also.

If xfce 4 + compiz will be working well in 7 I'd do anything I could to help, but you guys have to let me and people like me in to help.

Grass is not always greener. I am trying other distos all seem alien to me. Vector I can work but there are things that I can not fix.
These things are so important and need fixing. I can't do it, I don't know how and these problems lead to my frustration with it.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: hata_ph on June 19, 2011, 10:00:58 pm
VL always welcome any help it can get. You can post your problem in the forum or PM any of the VL admins and I am sure they gonna give your some response.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 19, 2011, 10:23:01 pm
Quote
Other distros have cinelerra, vector 7 will, but you have to buy a multimedia upgrade cd from a third party. Thats fine, but I've already bought vector cd's in the past and supported vector, now a third party wants cash so I can finally run the one decent video app available for linux? And when can I finally do this? Been waiting over a year already. The announcement about the multimedia upgrade cd came what 6 or 8 months ago? maybe more? But still I wait.

Two things...
One the multimedia upgrade cd has been available for VL7.0 since it was alpha. Completed it and put it up for sale on Dec. 10 see here... http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=12698.0 (http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=12698.0)
Two, I actually got the idea of charging for it from you. Your post here... http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=11745.msg74309#msg74309 (http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=11745.msg74309#msg74309) where you suggested Vector could benifit from using a bounty system.

You've been a Vector supporter for a long time and I for one will be sorry to see you go.
The trouble really just stems from the size of the Development community.  I'm a retail manager by trade and most of my day is spent guiding customers to pen's, stationary, and electronic goods. If you go through my post history to the beginning you'll see I was green as grass as far as any Linux was concerned.  But google was my friend and when I wanted something fixed I figured it out and shared it with the communtiy. When I wanted a package I learned how to make packages, and I shared that with the community.  

I've read through a lot of your posts and I'd really hoped you'd be that part of the community that crossed over from user to motivated participant.  If I remember right you were making your own re-mixx at one time.  I've seen your post re: when is VL7.0 std final going to be released. I didn't see any posts of you testing it or providing input.   If you want a better Vector the VL7.0 release is your chance to make one.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: vectornewb on June 19, 2011, 11:38:28 pm
Didn't know VL had a community. This place is a digital ghost town. :D

Dunno, sounds like you've come too far to give up now. Why not at least keep your VL install handy and upgrade when/if 7.0 does come out ? Seems a waste to spend so much time getting familiar with an OS, just to throw in the towel. Besides buntu blows chunks anyway. Constant beta distro ... out every 6 months, ready or not here it comes kinda deal.

All I can say is VL light 6.0 is linuxy goodness. Lightest distro I've been able to find yet. Amazing how light they made it. While still having a full featured OS. Haven't tried any of their full releases and not a big fan of eye candy. As long as there's everything someone needs to have a full OS, decent browser, file/package manager, office suite, photo editors etc blahblah. Even if it's not the latest versions of everything. Still has everything an avg PC user needs for everyday personal computing.

The stability and security of linux and a really user friendly OS. Not a bad deal for the people benefiting from the devs hard work and generosity in my book. Count your blessings and focus on what ya do have. Rather than what you think is missing perhaps ? ;) Errrrr , also not like you're stuck only having one. Don't think it's poss for someone to only have 1 favorite linux distro. At least I can't manage it. I'm at 3, doesn't stress this old dinosaur comp ... Trying to resist the urge to add more. VL light's my current favorite n most used though. Think it's an awesome work of software. Could almost run on the ram of a calculator, shrugs.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: nightflier on June 20, 2011, 04:19:43 am
Steven, we'll miss you. And welcome you back.  :)
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 05:42:30 am
Where can I get a beta of 7.0. Perhaps my xfce and compiz problems have been fixed in 7.0?

On the multimedia cd, Yes I believe in bounties and no problem paying for the cd, but perhaps clearer communication could help. And I was just pointing out other distros have cinelerra point and click install.

Right now I'm in distro limbo. Xbuntu no way, missing title bar problem with 16 pages on google with articles on how to fix. Tried many of them, nothing works.

Today I'm trying archlinux and a few others.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 05:46:53 am
Found a copy of vector 7 rc1. I'll give it a try I suppose, but if compiz/xfce4 aren't working very well, that being the heart of my system interface, I have to continue to look elsewhere. If it works without the problems 6.0 had I'd be happy to continue to use vector, these other distos don't feel very welcoming to me.

Nightflier, your right I left before for sometime but came back after not finding better options, perhaps the same will be true this time. We'll see how my patience holds out with trying new distros.

Yes I did make a respin of vl light 6.0 but how can I give it out when xfce4 is buggy in the vl6.0 build?
Here's an awsome desktop that crashes alot? That will not generate alot of confidence from a new user.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: M0E-lnx on June 20, 2011, 07:04:59 am
Actually, RC1.7 is the latest...
http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/vec7/VL70-STD-LIVE-RC1.7.iso
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 20, 2011, 07:06:45 am
Code: [Select]
Found a copy of vector 7 rc1. I'll give it a try I suppose, but if compiz/xfce4 aren't working very well, that being the heart of my system interface,
You won't find compiz on the vl release candidates yet.

I'll work on compiz today.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 07:12:56 am
tried vl7 rc 1.0 looks like compiz is installed out of the box, but the repositories don't have ccsm or fusion icon?

7 looks slick and stable, but no compiz so far. Audacity dosn't work, or won't install needs updated dependancies.

xfce build feels stable for vl7 rc1, but no compiz = sad. :(

Rc2 coming soon? and will compiz be able to run? I'd like to try 7 with compiz and see how it works.
Without compiz, this xfce appears much better than my vl6 install.

This is not a good feeling. I'm stuck in linux limbo. I don't wanna stick with 6 with the problems I have with xfce/compiz, but the downtime getting my system back up with another option is killing my productivity.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 20, 2011, 08:11:33 am
For audacity;
enable extra and testiing in gslapt sources and update. Then try audacity again.
I'll work on compiz today.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 02:01:42 pm
Should I install VL7 rc1.7 or stick with rc1?

Steven

EDIT : never mind, can't hurt having the newest rc, so I'm dowloading and installing rc1.7 now.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 03:05:50 pm
Vl7 rc 1 was a full install disc. This 1.7 was a live cd. Did the install anyway. Sound and network not working. Ran supervasm auto setup hw, still dosn't work.

All hardware worked with rc1 install. Back to linux limbo.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 20, 2011, 06:05:37 pm
haywire;
You can get the installdisk for vlrc1.7 here http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/vec7/VL7.0-STD-RC1.7.iso (http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/vec7/VL7.0-STD-RC1.7.iso)

The there has not been as much testing on the live disk post installation as there has been on the install disk. 
Sorry, I don't think anyone intended to give the live version.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: hata_ph on June 20, 2011, 06:16:50 pm
Vl7 rc 1 was a full install disc. This 1.7 was a live cd. Did the install anyway. Sound and network not working. Ran supervasm auto setup hw, still dosn't work.

All hardware worked with rc1 install. Back to linux limbo.

Steven

if would be helpful if you can post your hardware spec so that we can help to enable the module for you and include it in the next RC.

Pls post your result of lspci, lsmod...thanks
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 06:56:34 pm
In the middle of installing and trying out linux mint xfce debian version. After that I'll try to do the 1.7 rc full install.

My hardware all worked in 6.0 standard and live, generic 2ghz intel pc, nvidia 512 meg video card, sblive emu10k, network built into motherboard.

Steven

Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: hata_ph on June 20, 2011, 07:04:03 pm
In the middle of installing and trying out linux mint xfce debian version. After that I'll try to do the 1.7 rc full install.

My hardware all worked in 6.0 standard and live, generic 2ghz intel pc, nvidia 512 meg video card, sblive emu10k, network built into motherboard.

Steven



What we need is detail spec...pls post your lspci and lsmod when you can...it will really help VL7 in the long run with this kind of info...thanks
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 07:27:22 pm
I suspect some of the driver modules are not in the 1.7 live install but are in the standard install. Will try to install 1.7 standard tonight...

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 07:40:35 pm
Done with linux mint, now installing rc1.7 standard. That will be my third install. (rc1std, then rc1.7 live, next 1.7 standard)

My thoughts on vector 7 are very positive from what I saw, although I hate cairo and think you should make removing it more obvious.I couldn't really figure out how to get rid of it, so I simply removed cairo with gslapt.
Xfce seemed very slick and stable though. Not sure I like the "lets be like ubuntu" moving of the menu bar on top and so on, but this is just stock and easily changeable.

2 days of linux installs = not fun. I heard a funny quote today "Linux is free, but only if your time is not worth anything to you." in some ways thats very true. I'm 2 days down installing different distos and finding alot of the same problems I had with vector elsewhere. Now I'm going to give vl 7 a real workout, I just hope the compiz build works well. Most other things I need I can build from source if I have to.

Steven

Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: Pita on June 20, 2011, 07:42:04 pm
Me too had to make a decission after VL6 had become erratic on a HP-2133
similar to my desktp PC where suddenly 'wish' does not work or on booting
will not connect to the Internet. Have to use now wicd manually all the time.

For the HP-2133 was the question to reinstall VL6 or look for a newer
similar box since the VL7 installer wouldnt work on this gadget. I found another distro
almost identical and all works fine with it. Owner of HP-2133 very happy again, so am I
since I do not have to answer so many "whys" anymore.

However, needless to say I will switch back to VL once things have been
sorted out for the 7 version.

Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 09:16:03 pm
Perhaps I'll do the same, I just got tried of constant crashes with xfce4 on vl6. Maybe I should have just downgraded the xfce as people suggested and saved myself all this hassle. Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: vectornewb on June 20, 2011, 10:09:12 pm
"Linux is free, but only if your time is not worth anything to you."

lol ... you're the VL forum king of one liners in this thread. Here's a great desktop that crashes a lot was my other personal favorite so far. :D

Both good points though too. At least with the time invested in nix you're learning an interesting and valuable skill and that's worth something. Doubt you'd be doing it if you didn't have a thing for playing with comps. It's kinda like a hobby for many nix users I think.

Keep hearing linux isn't ready for this n that around though. Don't believe that. Linux is just fine for PC users imo ( for that matter even mass scale corp/institutional deployment ). Though only my opinion. Seems like that having to have the latest thing can really bork someone's life up. It's nice, but in my mind ... again. As long as a full featured, stable OS is available to anyone who wants an alternative to closed source craptastic corp OS's.

Then no matter what that cannot be a bad thing. So rolling back to xfce 2.6 isn't the end of the world. As long as you've got a fast, stable OS with all the tools on it to do daily tasks ya want to do. As mentioned too. Don't know about you but I can't help but doing the distro hop. It's fun and interesting to see what all is out there and avail in the nix world.

All personal preference o course. But no reason you can't have your xfce 2.8 DE and keep vector linux if you've grown fond of it along the way. Think that's great though. The spirit of competition among nix/FOSS devs. People are going to use the one they like the best. Keeps raising the bar for the devs behind all this great software. Us endusers and fanbases for the software they create are truly blessed.

I mean really have invested more than a lil bit of time getting my bearings where linux is concerned. But it's been its own reward too. Plus honestly with software like VL light 6.0 avail. I could save myself a fortune if I feel like it. Would never have to buy retail comp hardware again. Think VL lite 6 could blaze along just fine on a comp with 256mbs/ram. Those are a dime a dozen.

:D
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 10:22:40 pm


Posting from vl7 rc1.7. It appears that everything is stable and working.

Tried compiz install from gslapt but starting fusion icon does not work, and I tried the 1vl, 2vl versions. Looks like 3vl not ready yet?

Yes I suppose I must like screwing around with this stuff or I wouldn't keep doing it. Downgrading back to 6.0 vl with older more stable xfce is stil an option I suppose.

I tried xbuntu, mint, archlinux and gentoo. None of them seemed any better for me. Back to linux limbo...

Steven


Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 10:26:59 pm
Should have mentioned chrome on vl7 is working beautifully. Its super fast even on this old hardware.

Does anyone have any idea how long it may take before compiz is working on vl7 alpha?


xfce seems very stable. No crashes so far, and I really ran it through some stuff.

Steven



Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 20, 2011, 10:32:36 pm
haywire, got a treat for you. Compiz is up and ready for testing.  
After updating gslapt, search for compiz-meta and install it.
It will install everything you need.
Start compiz with menu>>system>>fusion-icon.  This you know.

Now here is the important bit.
Your windows will have no decorations title bars, and you can't move them but don't panic, but it's not a bug, there are just no settings pre-set.

Right click on the fusion-icon icon on the panel and start the settings manager.
Under the word "Filter" there is a search window...type decoration in it. Then select the box that comes up. You will see your titlebar and decoration appear.
Then search the word "move".  Then click the box for "move window".  You can now move your windows.
Then search the word "size". Then click the box for "size window"
after that you can add what every you wish.  As you know there is a lot you can choose to do.
Everything actually works right out of the box. It just has no settings preset.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 20, 2011, 10:41:39 pm
PS after installing "compiz-meta"
I'd appreciate any input you have. I've tested myself on three computers one ati and two nvidia.  However, there is a lot of nvidia and ati cards out there and I can't predict your result, but if you let me know maybe I can use that info.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 10:50:31 pm
Which repo is that in? Looks like all my removing and starting again it was already installed but vl1ver?

Also I gotta fix my gslapt, I enabled a ton of them and thats way too much if they all have the same stuff.

Trying to remove compiz-meta with gslapt and reinstall now...

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 10:55:57 pm
tried removing it and then re-install. Log out and back click fusion icon nothing starts. (The icon dosn't appear on the tray)

Trying reboot now.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 10:56:57 pm
How can I tell if the nvidia drivers are installed? I don't recall it installing them during initial install, and I don't get that nvidia logo at bootup as before on vl6...?

Maybe the nvidia propriatary driver is not installed?

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: Pita on June 20, 2011, 11:01:16 pm
Perhaps I'll do the same, I just got tried of constant crashes with xfce4 on vl6. Maybe I should have just downgraded the xfce as people suggested and saved myself all this hassle. Steven

I had reinstalled xfce4-4.4.3 since I did not like version 4.6.1.

A while ago I tested VL7-Live-RC-1.7 and what I checked worked. Internet connected
w/o me doing anything, found my printers, skype passed test, Abiword opens
.doc files correctly. As for sound when I booted with th webcam connected to
USB I could not get alsa working, therefore no sound except for skype which 'thinks'
the webcam has sound ???. Booting with webcam disconnected gave me alsa with
sound. Then connecting webcam and making the necessary changes in skype
all worked. There is a way to go around this as a thread in forum will show. Forgot which one.
 One has to add a line in /etc/modprobe.d/sound

In VL7-Live-RC1.7:
vl:$ alsamixer
cannot open mixer: No such file or directory
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 20, 2011, 11:03:41 pm
nvidia drivers will not be installed and you will need them for this to work.
I can show you how, it's pretty easy, but I have to sleep. Tell you what I'll make a video.
You'll have to hold on for another day.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 20, 2011, 11:23:05 pm
Thanks for your help...

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: pierce.jason on June 21, 2011, 12:57:31 am
Not sure I like the "lets be like ubuntu" moving of the menu bar on top and so on, but this is just stock and easily changeable.

I agree! LEFT-SIDE is where menu bar's should go, and they should only be shown when you mouse over!

However, many people like to see the menu-bar "always", so top is a good compromise.

I realize you said you don't like cairo-dock, but lets assume you did. Would you recommend switching cairo-dock and menu bar with one another? Swapping out top-for-bottom so to speak.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: vectornewb on June 21, 2011, 01:39:29 am
It's 3:43 am, should be working on something "productive" instead babbling in a nix forum ... sighs. :D

The toolbar across the top is alien to anyone used to a winblows OS though. Aside from many other things that made me almost instantly despise ubuntu 10.10. The ridiculous panel running across the top definitely didn't help. Plus they reversed the order of the windows controls for close, maximize and minimize for some tarded, unknowable ... buntuish reason.

Is of course just nix newbish opinions and late night babbling. But would think a distro with an eye towards the future would focus more on targeting M$ users and making it easier for them to migrate over. Rather than imitating buntu's layout. Anyone new from M$land will find it quirky and alien. Anyone already familiar with nix would have no prob adding a panel across the top if they want it there anyway.

Thinking would like to see VL focus on something it's got down pat. Making kickbutt, full featured ... yet ultra light OS's that could blaze on something with the ram of a calculator. The devs here definitely have that down to a T. VL lite 6.0 amazes me ... Tons of people in the world with oldish, lowish spec systems who would really enjoy VL lite me thinks.

Seeing what they did with it. ( He ? Not sure how many people work on developing this nix distro.) But seeing what they were able to do with VL lite makes me keen to explore what the fuller weight releases from VL are like too.

Glad the OP might get a happy ending here. Awwwww ... who doesn't like a happy ending ? Does the heart good, it does.

:D

Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 21, 2011, 09:27:43 am
haywire;
I had a video already. Was just too tired last night to remember.
Here it is...
http://www.opensourcebistro.com/Tutorial/VL60/01.Installation/nvidia/nvidia.htm (http://www.opensourcebistro.com/Tutorial/VL60/01.Installation/nvidia/nvidia.htm)
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 12:56:46 pm
I'll try to install the nvidia drivers later tonight. I have to figure out what card I have, I think its a nvidia geoforce 6200 but I'm not sure...

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 21, 2011, 04:19:35 pm
post the output of...
lspci | grep -i nvidia
as root
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 06:09:04 pm
Lspci says nvidia 6200. tried to install 6200 drivers from nvidia from text mode reboot. The system rebooted itself in the middle of the installation. tried again 3 times. May be hard drive problems, I am doing a fresh install with another hard drive and trying again.

This is what I get for building computers with parts from the trash. I suppose I never really know if a drive is good till shit happens. Its cool I got a pile of hard drives here. I'll try a fresh install with another hard drive.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 06:47:53 pm
Fresh install with another hard drive. NVIDIA driver crash during install, system reboots....
Using the 6200 driver...

root:# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 760/M760 Host (rev 02)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SG86C202
00:02.0 ISA bridge: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS964 [MuTIOL Media IO] (rev 36)
00:02.5 IDE interface: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] 5513 [IDE] (rev 01)
00:03.0 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.1 Controller (rev 0f)
00:03.1 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.1 Controller (rev 0f)
00:03.2 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 1.1 Controller (rev 0f)
00:03.3 USB Controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] USB 2.0 Controller
00:04.0 Ethernet controller: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet (rev 90)
00:05.0 IDE interface: Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS] RAID bus controller 180 SATA/PATA  [SiS] (rev 01)
00:09.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 08)
00:09.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Live! Game Port (rev 08)
00:0b.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394): VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6306/7/8 [Fire II(M)] IEEE 1394 OHCI Controller (rev 80)
00:18.0 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] HyperTransport Technology Configuration
00:18.1 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Address Map
00:18.2 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] DRAM Controller
00:18.3 Host bridge: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] K8 [Athlon64/Opteron] Miscellaneous Control
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV44A [GeForce 6200] (rev a1)
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 21, 2011, 07:09:40 pm
Steven are you using the init 3 command as root to get into text mode?   It is not enough to just be in text mode you need to be in a runlevel that is not running X.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 07:10:42 pm
will try again right now, I just rebooted in text mode will follow the tutorial to the letter this time...

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 07:24:22 pm
After init3 command, I'm greeting with the text login. Login and root run driver install again, crashes before finishing.

I think I give up. I tried multiple hard drives because I thought it may be hardware. I sat through 6 or 7 clean installs and had the same problem (Driver install crashing in the middle) every time.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 07:32:19 pm
Forgot to mention, for what its worth, yes if they insist on leaving cairo in the default install, the bars should be reversed with the cairo dock on top and the "start menu" on the bottom.  I would not use cairo but I've been using a dock at the top for frequenty used apps for years.

Besides this all current VL users are used to it at the bottom. All windows users are used to it there also.

I don't like cairo though, too bouncy, Eye candy thats not so great anyway so who cares. Too complicated a thing for a simple task (Launch common apps) Wbar I think its called would have been a much better choice if you want that mac bouncy app launcher style, with an interface that is simple and easy to use.  Me? I just use a panel and put my app launchers there.

From what I tested, vl7 is working great except for nvidia drivers won't install and therefore compiz won't work. Can you guys put the old nvidia installer at initial install back in for rc2? In 6.0 the nvidia drivers were just installed during initial install. I had 3 computers all with nvidia cards and vector saw and installed them all, all different nvidia cards. Why would you pull out such a great thing from the installer?

Steven

Steven


Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: uelsk8s on June 21, 2011, 09:05:44 pm
the nvidia drivers, like most other software just keep growing. they no longer fit on the iso with everything else.
you can download them here: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-7.0/kernels/drivers/vlnvidia-7.0-x86-2vl70.txz
install the pkg then run vxconf from init 2.
you may also need to remove the noveau kernel module before running vconf
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: GrannyGeek on June 21, 2011, 09:18:14 pm
Good lord. I must say I don't understand the mindset behind all these complaints. They're all adjustable.

First of all, in Windows you can have the Taskbar on any of the four edges of the screen. I know some users who prefer to have the Taskbar on the top and also a few who like it on the side. So it's simply not true that all Windows users expect it on the bottom. The Mac puts that stuff on top. So does Gnome. In XFce you can have it wherever you want it. Just drag the Panel to the edge you want it and there you go. I like it full width on the bottom and I detest Hide the Panel. If it's not a laptop, I'd suggest getting a monitor large enough so you have the screen space for it. (only half joking here)

I also hate the mostly transparent Panel that is the default for XFce in VL7. Simple solution--right click on the Panel and choose whether you want any transparency and how much if you do.

I don't like Cairo-Dock or the other Dock (GTK? GLX?), so duh--I just close it and make sure it's not set to start up again. I know lots of people like it and it's Mac-like. I didn't like Wbar either. Simple solution--don't use it.

This stuff is all so customizable. It just takes a few minutes of poking around for the settings and you can have things exactly the way you want them. I've never installed *any* operating system where I was completely happy with it out of the box. But it's a small matter to make it the way I want it. Defaults can't please everybody.

With old ATI cards, there is no support from ATI for using the proprietary ATI driver with them. I don't know how far NVidia maintains backward compatibility with older cards. If the NVidia driver can't be installed, the alternatives are the open source nv and nouveau drivers. I don't know if they work with old NVidia cards, either.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 21, 2011, 10:48:05 pm
the nvidia drivers, like most other software just keep growing. they no longer fit on the iso with everything else.
you can download them here: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-7.0/kernels/drivers/vlnvidia-7.0-x86-2vl70.txz
install the pkg then run vxconf from init 2.
you may also need to remove the noveau kernel module before running vconf

uelsk8s is right and I don't know why I did not think of it.  Noveau drivers are now used by the vl7.0 setup by default.  It is the most likely reason for you system crashes.  I've made that mistake myself but the system never crashed, just got a warning about noveau drivers.

uelsk8s provides the most elegant solution above, but for what it's worth you can still try the Nvidia's drivers the same way you will just need to use vxconf and set yourself up with the vesa drivers before attempting the proprietory driver install.  Most likey uelsk8's already has the same proprietary driver in his package.

Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 11:20:04 pm
Make room for the nvidia install then, its more important than some of the fluff your including space wise on the initial install. if a user can't get his hardware working easily, he's gone. Most users would never put the time in that I just did trying to make it work.

I consider myself a fairly technical person. I kept trying to fix this where most people would give up. In one instance of nvidia install, it mentioned the noveau drivers and offered a way to disable them. did so, repeated and attempted install again. Still crashes this time with no noveau warning.

That was just one of the 6 or so attempts.

Now being in linux limbo my choices are downgrade to vl6 with older or default install xfe so everything works, find a new distro, or wait for 7.
Maybe this thread title should be changed to "trying to stay in the vector linux community."

I'd like to stay, but please look at these things from a user's perspective. The nvidia drivers being removed from initial install is a bad idea. That is, unless your sure the manual driver install will work on most machines equipped with nvidia video cards. Worked great in vl6 on initial install. Why change that? It was a huge strength to starting out. Beautiful accellerated video right out of the box. Lets remove that and put in cairo dock instead? Are you kidding me?

"Speed, performance, stability, these are attributes that set VectorLinux apart in the crowded field of Linux distributions."
Really? Lets let them fight with their install for three days trying to get video drivers working. Yeah thats a good idea. The correct drivers = speed. The right drivers = performance.. The right drivers working out of the box = stability.

Please don't mistake my passion for insult. This is just what I feel. You may continue to disagree. Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 21, 2011, 11:27:23 pm
Get space for nvidia initial install -

1) You have 3 or 4 different media players. Remove them all in favor of one which will play audio as well as video. There is your space.

2) No one will use inkscape out of the box, remove that and a few other smaller apps to make room.

3) Drastic, remove gimp. Gimp is easy to install if a user wants it.

4) Cairo dock - what a hog of space. Kill that and give us drivers so our computers work right after initial install. If you want a pretty launcher I can make you one that will take no space at all on the install. Its called a panel.

Just my thoughts on 7. Steven

Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: hata_ph on June 21, 2011, 11:36:16 pm
One need to use the propriatory nvidia driver only is he/she need 3D acceleration. If the noveau opensource driver work fine I dun think it is a big deal to use the nvidia driver. If some one want to use the nvidia driver once can download it from the net and install it by themself. Adding more package to VL will make the ISO size become bigger and bigger.

Like I say before not everyone use compiz and that mean 3D composition is an accessories. stretchedthin have make a tutorial/guide for anyone who want to use the nvidia driver and anyone one can do it. if you got any problem can ask in the forum.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 12:22:07 am
But thats just it... Installing it after initial install does not work. It used to work right out of the box in vl 6.0. Check my nightmare trying to get it working. I could try some more video cards if you like, but this one is no go after many attempts. Always worked out of the box in vl6. It not working in vl7 means vl7 is worse than vl6. Why upgrade if vl7 offers less "speed,stability, performance."? It offers LESS. Thats called a downgrade in performance, stability and ease of use. Thats a big negative when considering options.

People who don't use compiz would still benefit from the faster, more performance boosted accellerated graphics driver. Its lucicrous to leave it out of the initial install for size reasons when you have so much garbage that is unimportant also included.

Your also risking alienating EVERY user who finds compiz essential. They install, have endless problems getting proper drivers and compiz working, they move on. Compiz working out of the box would be ideal. If a user dosn't want to use it, don't change to compiz as window manager, but its there in your tray waiting for you if you need or want it. Like it or not many people want compiz. Even if not to use just to show off. Its worth the time making sure it works well.

The compiz interface is the future of desktop linux. Vector has always been strong in desktop, so you can take the lead again or stay in the shadows. How many new users do you think you'll gain if compiz works right out of the box if you have a supported ati, intel or nvidia video card? How many will you lose if it stays broken or very difficult to get working? Now look at some of the garbage you have included on the initial install. Whats more important? - Steven





Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: hata_ph on June 22, 2011, 12:57:43 am
Pls understand VL7 is still in RC stage. VL would welcome any volunter to test and feedback what ever problem their encounter on their hardware. Positive feedback is always welcome.

BTW, another man's garbage may be another man's treasure...if you know what I mean  8)

May I ask do VL7 rc1 grapic not working out of the box for you or not working with compiz only?
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 22, 2011, 01:15:42 am
the nvidia drivers, like most other software just keep growing. they no longer fit on the iso with everything else.
you can download them here: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-7.0/kernels/drivers/vlnvidia-7.0-x86-2vl70.txz
install the pkg then run vxconf from init 2.
you may also need to remove the noveau kernel module before running vconf

Kind of feal like this whole dialog is my fault. Really I should have just let you know to switch out of noveau and into vesa as you driver before following the steps of the video and you would be done and  spinning your compiz cube by now.
but here is my 2 cents worth.
  Your right dev's could chop a few things to include the NVidia drivers, but what do we chop to include the ATI drivers.  Can't justify supporting only one half of the graphic card user base now really can we.  Also, these each have to be a collection of drivers all NVidia cards are not created equal so as NVidia or ATI pump out new cards the driver collection becomes bigger and bigger.  We can't move to dvd because too many of vl's base users have older hardware with only cd capability.  That really is vl's core strength, giving older hardware a new life.  Luckily by crafting the distro that way it also brings blazing speed to new hardware.
So anyway, there is the delema. The dev's would without question have to continually shrink the distro with each release inorder to fit ever growing collections of graphics drivers.

Alternatively, the drivers could be made available in the repo and a menu entry could be added to system menu "Install propriatory graphics" or some such name.  This would be a bit of work but a more likely path for the future.


I myself prefer installing the drivers directly from NVidia or ATI's site for this reason..they update them.  The driver that was included with vl60 for my card is now two years old. The driver I put in my NVidia machine yesterday from thier site is two weeks old.

Your thoughts.


Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 02:23:03 pm
Its no one's fault I simply can't get it working. I'm willing to give it another try from a clean install. I'm not sure I understand, your telling me to disable noveau, then install this kernal module?

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: GrannyGeek on June 22, 2011, 02:55:35 pm
Get space for nvidia initial install -

1) You have 3 or 4 different media players. Remove them all in favor of one which will play audio as well as video. There is your space.

2) No one will use inkscape out of the box, remove that and a few other smaller apps to make room.

3) Drastic, remove gimp. Gimp is easy to install if a user wants it.

4) Cairo dock - what a hog of space. Kill that and give us drivers so our computers work right after initial install. If you want a pretty launcher I can make you one that will take no space at all on the install. Its called a panel.

I think your ideas for what to leave out are TERRIBLE! First of all, not everyone has NVidia graphics. Probably less than half do. The rest are ATI, Intel, or whatnot.

Next, not everyone wants compiz, which is so important to you. I've never liked it and will never use it. I suppose I could with the nouveau driver, which is what's being used in my Sempron computer (which has an NVidia graphics card). hardinfo says I have Direct Rendering with the nouveau driver. I don't know about such things, but isn't direct rendering 3D? Of course, since I don't like compiz and I don't do games or anything else 3D, it doesn't matter to me whether or not nouveau is providing it.

I did install the proprietary NVidia driver in beta2 or so of VL7. I downloaded it from NVidia. When the next release of VL7 came out, I decided to give nouveau a try. It's working fine for me, so at this point I don't plan to install the NVidia driver unless the earth transforms itself and I get a second monitor so I can have two at once. I strongly doubt that will happen, as I'd rather just get a larger monitor (the monitor on this computer is 1600x1200, 21 inches).

>> No one will use inkscape out of the box >>

And you know this how??? Inkscape is one of my must-have applications and there is NO WAY I'd want it left out. Frankly, I don't mind installing with GSlapt. That's what I do with my V6 Light computers. They're actually anything but light by the time I get everything installed on them that I want. I'm with hata_ph on this. It may be garbage to you but to me it's treasure.

Same for Gimp. And unless there is a good package in the repos, it's not easy to install at all. The proprietary NVidia drivers are a lot easier.

>> Cairo dock - what a hog of space >>

And yet, a lot of people love it. I don't like it--it gets stopped immediately on my systems and does not run again. It's eye candy that I can do without--kinda like compiz.

>> The compiz interface is the future of desktop linux.  >>

Not anymore. Desktop operating systems are gravitating toward interfaces influenced by touchscreens. We see that in Ubuntu's Unity, it's coming in Windows 8, and the Mac is also going that way. I haven't been thrilled with touchscreen yet. I have a Nook Color and while the touchscreen is a good option on a tablet, I wouldn't want it on a desktop where I'd have to hold my arm up and reach out to my monitor. But until I try it, I wouldn't pass judgment.

The reason for moving to touchscreen is that tablets and smartphones are growing in users while desktops and traditional laptops are losing users. The idea is that a more or less common interface will be easier for users influenced by smartphones and tablets.

It may be that VectorLinux needs to think more in terms of DVD installation or an ISO that won't fit on one CD. Even an old computer can have a DVD drive and while I appreciate the value of keeping old hardware alive, there comes a point when the old hardware is so "out of it" that the user is paying a severe penalty. It's time to bite the bullet and get something newer. You can pick up used computers for low prices or even free.

>> Like it or not many people want compiz. Even if not to use just to show off.  >>

Did you really want to say that?<g> Speaking as a granny, "showing off" seems awfully juvenile to me. What do you do? Have a bunch of geeky guys stand around your computer while you try to wow them with all the eye candy it can do? Let some other distro go after that crowd and VL can appeal to those who use their computers seriously, not to impress their friends.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 03:13:48 pm
Granny we'll agree to disagree. I actually use the compiz cube interace to keep all my most used apps open at all times. After you get used to this, its really hard to go back to flatworld.

I tried installing the vlnvidia module. If I untar it, it unzips to install sbin and usr folders on my desktop.

open a terminal in install folder, sh doinst.sh does nothing. Am I missing something?

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 03:46:00 pm
I tried doing a text login, run vxconf. Told it to use the default vesa xorg.conf.

Reboot. Okay looks like I'm in vesa now because its 800x600.

Tried to go back to init2 and run the nvida graphics drivers install. Again it crashes before the drivers finish installing.

Oh yeah, leaving this out of the initial install is a great idea, because all users are going to keep trying to install a simple video card driver for 3 days. Yeah thats a great idea for gaining new users. Most users would simply give up and try the next disto.

The right time to install the proper video drivers is at initial install. You don't muck up the system with the wrong drivers first and expect the user to fix everything that got screwed up on initial install. Most users, especially new ones won't get very far with this.

Doing a new clean install where I will tell it to use vesa xorg.conf then trying again.  
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: nightflier on June 22, 2011, 04:09:59 pm
I tried installing the vlnvidia module. If I untar it, it unzips to install sbin and usr folders on my desktop.
open a terminal in install folder, sh doinst.sh does nothing. Am I missing something?

Yes. That is not how it works. After you install the vlnvidia package (using the package manager), reboot to TUI, log in as root and run "vxconf". Select the nvidia driver when given the option. You need the kernel sources installed as well.

Alternative method (my fav .. again, you need the kernel sources); Boot to TUI, run in as root. Download the latest nV driver file, make it executable, and run it:
Code: [Select]
wget http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/275.09.07/NVIDIA-Linux-x86-275.09.07.run
chmod +x NVIDIA-Linux-x86-275.09.07.run
./NVIDIA-Linux-x86-275.09.07.run
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: GrannyGeek on June 22, 2011, 04:24:26 pm
Granny we'll agree to disagree. I actually use the compiz cube interace to keep all my most used apps open at all times. After you get used to this, its really hard to go back to flatworld.

I tried installing the vlnvidia module. If I untar it, it unzips to install sbin and usr folders on my desktop.

open a terminal in install folder, sh doinst.sh does nothing. Am I missing something?

I don't think I ever installed vlnvidia module. I have no idea what it does. If nobody can help you, I suppose you could try to copy whatever is in /sbin on the desktop into /sbin on the system and /usr on the desktop into the system /usr. Can you read the script as a text file? If so, go through the steps manually.

If you're trying to install a VL6 video driver file into VL7, you might be running into incompatibilities. That's the problem with ATI drivers and older cards. The drivers don't work with the current xorg and kernel and I'm not aware of any way around this. This is a pure guess, however.

Did you try downloading the proper driver for your video card from NVidia? If I recall correctly, it was a binary file that was easy to run and install.

As for compiz, you don't have to justify liking it. If you like it, you like it and it's your choice. I can't say I can see how the cube is any easier than a plain pager for keeping track of all your open apps--or even better, a center click on the desktop. I keep a sliver margin on the right edge of my screen so that I can always click on the desktop easily without having to minimize anything. It's not glamorous at all but sure is efficient. In fact, I remove the pager from the Panel because it's unnecessary and just takes up space because I get the same function from a center click.

I do hope you get your desired graphics driver installed. Sorry I can't help with that.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 04:26:04 pm
Just finished a clean install. Trying the previous method given, which is to download the proper driver script, go to init 2 and run nvidia install. I setup my initial install to use default vesa xorg.conf so I see no reason why that should not work this time...

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 04:34:21 pm
Crashed in the middle of nvidia installing drivers again. This is from a clean install after selecting "default vesa xorg.conf"

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 04:48:00 pm
vlnvidia package, I don't understand how to install it. If I untar it and try to run the install script doinst.sh nothing happens. Your saying install it with the package manager? Do you mean gslapt? Look on the sources list this location is not there. I can't install it from glslapt, so how to install it manually from the downloaded file?

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: nightflier on June 22, 2011, 04:59:59 pm
Yea, I remember being confused about the whole package manager thing.
If you downloaded the tlz file for vlnvidia, install it in a terminal, as root, with command:
Code: [Select]
installpkg /path/to/package
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 05:09:57 pm
Now the system won't even boot up. doing a clean install AGAIN.

Yeah its a great idea not including the drivers install in initial install.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 05:29:34 pm
Now the installer won't even start. I think I give up. I have two borked hard drives (probably fixable with gparted booted from cd) but still.

On one hard drive, which the bios sees, the fdisk utility does not see. On the other drive, the installed crashes and reboots while finding the install media. Tried twice with both, can't even do a clean install again at this point... Unless I want to try another hard drive.

This adventure may not prove me right, or the decision to not include the proper drivers in initial install, but I find myself asking if I had so much problems trying to get this working, a user with less experience has no hope of getting this working unless he gets lucky with another video card.

Geoforce 6200 is very common nvidia 512 meg card. You really should not have to pull your hair out trying ten different things for 2 days and do 10 clean installs trying 10 more things to get the nvidia drivers working. These used to work right out of the box with vl6. Taking them out of the initial install is a completely bad idea. In vl6, you ran the install, the drivers installed and worked out of the box.

I'm a farily experienced linux user. I couldn't get this working. No regular user would put two days and try all these things, they would simply move on to the next disto that included proper drivers. You can all persist in your belief that leaving these drivers out of the initial install is a great idea, but I disagree, and I have just had the perfect experience to prove why.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: nightflier on June 22, 2011, 05:52:42 pm
Steven, that is a real bummer. Still, the nvidia driver plus kernel sources add up to 75MB or so. That's more than 10% of a CD. Adding the ATI drivers would make it even more. I hope you find a satisfactory solution somewhere, and soon.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 06:05:05 pm
I wonder why xubuntu works out of the box and its a cd install too then. Compiz has missing title bar/window decoration problem but I didn't try very hard to fix that when I test installed it. That problem existed in vl6 too but was easy to fix as I recall.

Steven

Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: GrannyGeek on June 22, 2011, 06:45:59 pm
Xubuntu, like most non-Slackware distros, does not include the developer libraries needed to compile many programs. VectorLinux comes with just about everything you need to compile from source. VL7 comes with Fluxbox, too. That's all I can say, since I don't know what programs are included in Xubuntu.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 08:12:02 pm
Doing a new clean install on another machine, but with the same nvidia video card. I found another nvidia card but an older one in the meantime. I suppose I can try that next.

Linux limbo sucks. I should have never opened this can of worms.

Next time, just downgrade xfce you dumbass.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: hata_ph on June 22, 2011, 08:34:33 pm
Maybe we should start from the beginning again...did u follow the video guide?
Pls write down step by step what you did...

BTW, what is your computer full spec?

pls post your lspci and lsmod...
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: stretchedthin on June 22, 2011, 09:05:08 pm
We were tossing ideas around on the forum about your situation.  None of has had a nvidia do a reboot on us except for oMasta.  In his situation it was bad ram or the lack of ram and was corrected when he added some new sticks of a larger size.
If you hava a rescue cd (there are plenty on distrowatch) maybe you can run a mem test.
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=systemrescue (http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=systemrescue)
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 22, 2011, 10:48:13 pm
I don't think its a ram issue, the ram works fine in windows install, and worked fine in vl6. I don't have any spare ram to check that out. Maybe I'll get some just to be sure, either that or I'm going to find a whole other computer to try this on.

Right now I have work to do, especially graphics and since I use my linux box for all that stuff, I have people waiting for finished work with nothing done right now. I'll have to do my work in windows gimp and other editors for the time being and get back to this nightmare once I catch up on my work.
hata_ph I posted my full specs and lspci dump before.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: M0E-lnx on June 23, 2011, 06:01:26 am
I've been watching this thread from the sidelines as it develops and I think it's time for to vent off on the subject.

Let me start by saying that i've been a part of this community for the past 6 years or so. During that time, I've seen users come and go... I've read complaints, I've complained myself here and there... With that said, please everyone understand that what i'm about to say is not meant in a way to hurt anyone.

@steven
If you feel like VL is hold you back, by all means.... try others, but before you do, stop for a minute and think about what's happening here.  This community is working hard to please YOU. They've built YOUR requested packages.  They are tossing ideas around to try to help you... This is the 75th post to this thread.... That has to show you that they're doing what they can.  And somehow, you still manage to rant about things missing and why the distro is not shaped to fit YOUR particular desires.  To be honest with your, I didn't even think anyone was still using compiz.  In the ubuntu world, compiz has always been there, but nobody uses the cube, they just call it "enhanced desktop effects".  But seems you still want your cube.... Which is fine, we all have preferences.  A lot of us here are happy with a text login, others prefer a desktop manager, window manager, etc.

You have to realize that you're asking for a lot from a community that has offered as much help as it can give you, considering everyone here including the people who build YOUR packages, the people who put the distro together, and the people who posted on your thread are all just volunteering.  So keep that in mind before you post again saying that the distro should drop 75MB of software to make room for what you want.  I agree with you when you say we have so many browsers, media players, etc... True... but the way I see it, there are more people who surf the web and work with media every day than there are those who use the compiz cube (no offense).

You have to understand, the distro is shaped to fit "most people's needs".  You have no idea how much work goes into making the stuff work for as many people as possible, trust me on that one.

If you want hand-holding, VL or most slackware-type distros is not what you want.  So, feel free to try and poke around any distro you like... That's the beauty of free and open source software. You are by no means stuck with what you've got. 

If you really want something that works perfectly for you, I would suggest you build your own flavour using something like debian or arch, or even build LFS... do what you want with it.

I hope you dont take any of this the wrong way.  As you have seen from this thread, this community has tried hard to help you out.  If you really want the help, take the advice and quit complaining that the stuff doesn't work out of the box... With proprietary hardware and drivers, It almost never works on most distros anyway... that's just it.

@ the rest of the community
Looks like this guy has made up his mind... It's ovbious he feels the distro doesn't fit his needs anymore.  I hate to see any user go, but this happens all the time in all *nix communities.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 23, 2011, 06:22:43 am
Hey I agree everyone has been wonderful trying to help me. I'm a bit frustrated because I don't have spare ram to see if that is the issue after all. It actually would explain why the system which was once very stable started crashing alot. Bad ram crashes computers period. If that is the issue, which I have no way of knowing, I truly apologise. I ran a check and the ram came up good, but I've seen ram check good that was definitely bad in the past.
As I recall, my vector linux 6 system, which was on this same hardware, was working great until I ungraded xfce. The reason I upgraded xfce was due to wanting to customize the desktop, removing the home folder and so on. I know thats silly to some people, but I did it just to do that. Then it started crashing alot to the nvidia screen alot, most often while also running compiz. My other frustration was wanting chrome working, which I probably borked a few things up but good trying to get working. On the cube...
I know many people who use the compiz cube. It takes awhile to get used to that way of working, but trust me in that once you get used to having it, you really do feel like you can't live without it. It may seem like just eye candy to some but the 3d cube has a function. Its all in how you perceive your computing world I suppose. Your right I suppose I can't expect an entire community to make sacrifices due to my preferred way of working.
My "extra computer" is always worlds behind the latest and the greatest. This is why I gravitated towards xfce and vector, which I have loved.  In truth, my linux computer is always cobbled together from trash. That may indeed be the source of alot of my problems. If that is the case, I sincerely apologise. I'd prefer to stick around if I can get a computer going with vector again, so mods change the thread title to "Trying to stay in the vectorlinux community
" please! - Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 23, 2011, 06:39:26 am
One other thing. I don't want to get into specifics but lets just say getting a new 2ghz-3ghz or faster computer even used is beyond my means at the moment. I'm having a pretty tough time right now. As soon as I can get something off ebay in the 2-3ghz range, I will try vl7 again. Honestly this frankenstein monster may be 1/2 my problem.

Until then, I'm shit out of luck quite honestly, as I have all my clients video projects on my windows computer. If that computer goes down I will literally starve to death so I can't afford to risk trying to do a dual boot or something on my windows box.

My linux limbo sucks, and I look over and see it (my linux computer) dead and I feel like my whole world is gone. The data kept on her is safe in backups, but that computer was 1/2 my world. I'm sure many of you can understand that feeling and why I got so pissed off, and I apologise for that.

Steven



Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: nitehawk on June 23, 2011, 12:55:55 pm
um,..
I've been reading and following this thread with interest.  Nvidia (the legacy drivers) are pretty important to me, too.  And I really LOVED VL6 for having it right OOTB.  I really don't use "The Cube" or anything like that,...(I have somewhat older computers,..and several really older ones).  So 3D doesn't do hysterically good on my stuff.  It's just that, since I have several Nvidia cards in my junk,...I like to sqeeze out the very best from them.
  That said,...VL7 comes with nouveau, you say?  I believe I saw a listing of VL7's apps that showed that.  And mesa is also included?  Doesn't mesa (correct me if I'm wrong) provide the nouveau driver with direct rendering (i.e....3D effects)?  I know the newer Xorg won't be working with the older legacy Nvidia drivers, anyhow,....so Nouveau with mesa might just work for me (even though Nouveau is still considered experimental,...and may not work totally like the proprietary drivers just yet).
EDIT:  I was able to get the Nvidia legacy driver going in Slackware 13.37 without a hitch,...so perhaps I could also in VL7.  But I want to try out the Nouveau + mesa first.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: Deach on June 23, 2011, 08:15:41 pm
While I understand why you're upset you've been asked multiple times for "exact" specs and the outputs of lsusb (which you gave) and lsmod.  It's a little hard to help when you do not provide the information requested.  I too run ancient hardware.  I too cannot afford the latest and greatest (or even anything newer than what I have right now) but the exact specs could help a little bit.  Good Luck.

Regards,
Deach
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: haywire on June 23, 2011, 10:32:20 pm
I gave the lspci info in this thread. The others would hang and not give output while I still had the system up. Its down now and won't likely be back up anytime soon. After a marathon of fighting with it I'm spent. I will attempt an install on other hardware next, but I'm not sure when that will be.

Steven
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: Deach on June 24, 2011, 03:14:56 am
Yes I meant lspci sorry and I mentioned you provided that.  Although I do not use compiz or any of the fancy stuff I can understand the "want" for it.  I can also see where it could be useful.  Sometimes as times change so have to distro's so cover the newer stuff coming out and also I know a lot of distros have went to the Nouveau for Nvidia.  Hopefully you'll get your hardware sorted out and get it working just the way you like. 

Regards,
Deach
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: Moimême (modif30/10) on October 24, 2011, 02:49:19 am
Bonjour,

>3) Lack of compiz support.

Well as Vector is focussing on working on old or small power computer I do not share your disappointement about powerwasting software like compiz. The last kde desktop in laptop mode woul made you delighted.

Cordialement.
Title: Re: Leaving the vector linux community.
Post by: Colonel Panic on November 17, 2011, 08:36:16 am
IMO, Vector 6 Standard is still great and very usable even in 2011. I'm posting from it now, using the latest version of Opera. There's only one minor flaw with it on my machine; the terminal in Xfce crashes Xfce completely. I'm hoping to find a fix for that soon, but for now I'm using mrxvt instead.

BTW, Mint's a very good, maybe even great, distro IMO but it needs more system resources to run it than Vector does. I can run either Vector 6 or 7 easily on my 10 year old Compaq P III (with 512 MB of RAM), but Mint 11 (even the lightweight version with LXDE) struggles on it, especially the install.