VectorLinux

The Vectorian Lounge => The Lounge => Topic started by: metvas on August 18, 2019, 11:07:32 pm

Title: VL ongoing
Post by: metvas on August 18, 2019, 11:07:32 pm
Hello All:
As you all must know by now Robert (Vec7) decided he had had enough and did not want to continue with VL. I have renewed the site for another year to try to decide "what to do", I will leave this message open to any and all input of a path forward. I am not criticizing anyone however I was kept on the sidelines as to the ongoing tasks off VL. Your suggestions, criticisms and ideas are all welcome.
Regards
Darrell
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: MikeCindi on August 19, 2019, 07:39:19 pm
VL has been the best distro for me...I wish Vec (Robert) the best and hope that he checks in every once-in-a-while. I would like for VL to continue but I'm not sure I'm too much help in making that happen.
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: Lyn on August 20, 2019, 12:43:50 am
I would be sorry to see it go, how many active developers do we have?  It its unique selling points have largely been superseded by other distros, a unified central configuration utility (VASM) was way ahead of everyone else, but now is universal.  Light weight, there are several out there....
I would go back to the suggestion maybe of going back to slackware based and adopting Salix style options?   I would like to thank Robert for his vision and hard work in bringing us one of the greatest distros we have ever had.  Kept me interested in Linux and enabled me to pass on tens of machines to disadvantaged members of the public.  I wish him well in all future endeavours.
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: nightflier on August 21, 2019, 07:52:09 am
I also want to thank Robert for his contribution over the years. Every ship needs a Captain, to set the course and make decisions, a leader to present a vision and inspire the people involved.

What is left of the old VL is essentially a recognized name still in the top 100 of DW, a web domain and a static repo.

To continue the tradition, you would need a new Vec with a new vision of something unique, and new developers.

I am not available to fill any of those roles, but just can't help checking in on a regular basis.
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: Lyn on August 25, 2019, 02:01:15 am
I think this is where we need to hear from the other developers, how many of them are here and what are their thoughts?  What is the best way forwards, if at all?
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: Lyn on September 17, 2019, 08:36:16 am
So what is the way forwards, what resources are there, how many developers are there and is there a consensus, or should we just call it quits?
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: bigpaws on September 30, 2019, 07:00:55 pm
Hi folks.

I have not checked the forum for awhile. I was not made
aware that Robert is not continuing with Vector. So I know now.

The name for Vector is controlled by Metvas.

I am keeping the forum and the website are website running as they exist.
As far as the irc channel I have no power there. I just learned about a twitter account
again I have no access or power there.

The website and forum are under my control so any changes there is someone
that can accomplish that. I have all DNS and associated files at my disposal.
There is also  access to osuosl.org for our files, at least the last time I checked.

As far as resources Metvas has contributed by paying for the domain name.

The other incurred hosting costs are from me.

As far as developers. Those of old have not been available mostly due to life
getting in the way. They have expressed the interest in helping new developers
to continue Vector.

A path forward is currently not defined at least not to me.

I will keep an eye on the forum for new posts. If there is no interest in path forward
then the longevity of my contributions will need to be reevaluated as well.

If you wish for faster contact a pm is acceptable.

Vector has been a home for me since version 3.0 around 2002.

The current needs are to get a project manager and developers. The rest
would fall into place.

I am open to thoughts.

Bigpaws

Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: Lyn on October 01, 2019, 12:05:02 am
its been my home since 4, :-( I would be very sad to see its demise, but I am not a developer.  I see we have dropped out of the distrowatch 100 - happy to help in any other way that I can
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: vector on October 02, 2019, 03:09:56 am
hey folks,
Contrary to Metvas post I have not walked away but have been lurking for sometime. My situation has changed over the last few years that has left me unable to continue on as your fearless leader. However Vector has been around for some twenty years now and I am more than willing to see it continue but we need a new regime for that to happen. I was hoping Moe-lnx would be the natural successor since his innovations drove the last two releases but unfortunatly that was not to be. The distro has a lot of resources with ftp space on osuosl.org and more backup with vault networks all free to use as they have donated there service to continue our quest.
so with this post I am reaching out to someone to please step forward and be willing to take this distro into the next generation of linux users. I can serve as communications officer and a tester just dont have the personal resources for full time development at this point in my life...........so lets make this happen this distro is way to important to so many people to let it go away because of neglect. By the way happy to see so many people care that this topic came up on the forum makes me happy!!!!

Cheers,
Vec
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: MikeCindi on October 02, 2019, 07:03:27 am
Where does one find/recruit a "lead developer" since most users are not capable (willing perhaps but like me not enough technical ability)? It would also seem that within the Vector community this is not an available resource.

Is there anyone else (besides Moe-lnx) to organize and lead the process that Vec and nightflyer have pointed out? As Lyn has asked and I will echo are there any developers currently? Bigpaws has listed the non-personnel resources and also pointed out what is needed.
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: bigpaws on October 02, 2019, 10:02:49 am
I am glad Vec has not left.

The are not many left to take over. This forum as seen has not had much
in the way of posts or traffic in a long time.

I think a reevaluation of the direction for Vector is in order. At least create and or
recreate the "Vector Vision". 

To start that would be is there still interest in keeping Vector in 386? I know that
X86_64 was popular. At this point is anyone really using 586? I have a couple
systems that are 586 including an eeepc that is running Slackware.

As far as development there are a couple hurdles in the path forward.

The biggest is systemd. The next is handling EUFI. Then should grub be the boot loader
or lilo?

We need users and developers to speak up. Have a say in the path forward.

Following Slackware is possible and may be the easiest path since the last
real development has been about two years ago.

Bigpaws

Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: roarde on October 03, 2019, 07:14:11 pm
There is/was a Canadian VectorLinux LLC. What's the status of that?
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: MikeCindi on October 04, 2019, 10:11:18 am
I too was glad to read Vec's post.

As a practical matter piggybacking Slack again would be reasonable but the drift from that over the past several years
may present challenges. It would likely provide a path forward re: systemd, EUFI, and bootloader choice.

I personally don't care if 32-bit is offered. As a practical matter only continuing 64-bit development may be necessary.
This would easily still be in keeping with making older hardware shine as 64-bit has been the standard for many years now.

If there are no developers and only users in the Vector community the path forward is a dead end.

Perhaps being specific in what I am able and willing to do will help others respond so that it is better known what the
personnel resource is:
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: bigpaws on October 09, 2019, 09:17:07 am
The responses so far are not very promising.

Bigpaws
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: MikeCindi on October 10, 2019, 01:56:31 pm
Sadly I'm seeing that.
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: M0E-lnx on October 14, 2019, 06:37:08 am
Hi all.  Nice to see some familiar faces post.

I must apologize first.  I've been really busy lately and had totally forgotten about this thread.  It's nice to see that we still have some interest on the project.

Seems I am not alone in that a change of circumstances has rendered me unable to contribute to this project as much as I used to.

These days i'm pretty busy with my RL and $work and just dont have the time or energy to head anything like this.  As I have said in the past, I do have a bit of time to make smaller contributions, but someone else needs to play captain.

If anyone is willing to take the reigns, I'd be willing to re-build the infrastructure and setup the services that were lost in the last data disaster.  This will require some time since it has to be done from scratch again.  The original setup and configs were lost.

I believe with the help of those services, some of the daunting and time-consuming tasks are eliminated and efforts can be focused on the actual product.

As for direction of the project, I can only offer an opinion, but not much else.  At least not for a while.

I think most would agree that the linux desktop has evolved a lot.  On the surface you may not notice much, but under the hood, things are much different than they were 5 years ago, not to mention 10.

One of the biggest drivers behind that change is systemd.  We are at the point where it's almost impossible to build a relevant linux without some systemd component.  Systemd is now entangled into places you would never expect to see it.  From the init system, to network, to DNS name resolving, to desktop interfaces, and from what I read in recent days, there is even plans for a systemd-homed, which is supposed to take over some aspects of /home particularly for laptops for encryption and what not.

The point is that these days, it is almost inevitable to have at least some systemd library living if not fully operating on your box.  This also means that there are lots and lots of things that will require some systemd component to compile.

All of that before we even get to the bootloader, EFI, multi-lib, arch support, etc.

In my opinion, that leaves us with 3 options.

1) Re-build the project with a limited scope of target installs.  This would appeal to old hardware and will require effort to keep systemd off the system ( again, will be nearly impossible )

2) Jump on the wagon and make software that works.  This means installing systemd so that software that wants it can access it.

3) Crawl back under somebody else's umbrella ( ie, slack ) and create a spin instead of our own product.

IMHO, all of these options offer as many disadvantages as they do advantages.

I agree that it would be a shame to see the resources dedicated to VL go to waste.  I'm not opposed to either of the 3 options I laid out before, like I said, I just need somebody to take the lead and point in a (any) direction. 

I should be able to contribute small fixes, packages, infrastructure services and their maintenance, but I cannot build the product itself from scratch myself or make decisions as to which way to go on any issue.  I dont have the time or mental/emotional energy to objectively weigh each issue and decide one way or the other.

Once again, it was good to hear from everybody.  Will try to remain in touch here, and i'm always accessible as usual on freenode.
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: MikeCindi on October 16, 2019, 09:30:14 am
It's really good to hear from you M0E-lnx and what you are still able to offer is greatly needed for "VL ongoing".

FWIW my thoughts on the three options M0E-lnx presents:
1) It would seem that a distro without systemd would eventually be a dead-end. This would be short-sighted and Vector would again be in the state it's in now.
2) This seems to be the option that M0E-lnx is most favorable towards based on the information (and wording). If Vector is to be it's "own product" then this is the way to go.
3) This seems to be M0E-lnx's least favored option ("crawl back under").

I would be in favor of #2 as well but the huge obstacle that we face for any of the three is capable people with time to do what is needed.

Is the resource enough with vector doing the communications, M0E-lnx rebuilding what was lost, bigpaws and Metvas maintaining the forum and domain, etc., and
users such as myself helping with odds and ends? There are still big holes to fill...any takers/suggestions?
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: M0E-lnx on October 17, 2019, 02:24:24 pm

2) This seems to be the option that M0E-lnx is most favorable towards based on the information (and wording). If Vector is to be it's "own product" then this is the way to go.

3) This seems to be M0E-lnx's least favored option ("crawl back under").

I actually dont favor either option over the other 2, but with a caveat.  I would personally prefer not to get back under a slackware umbrella.  I dont think the development model is compatible with our plan and I fear we will again outgrow it and soon will be looking for an alternate upstream.

Quote
There are still big holes to fill...any takers/suggestions?
Yes there are.
There are discussions going on @ freenode for anyone who wants to join the active conversations.
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: overthere on October 24, 2019, 02:32:13 am
 So it sounds like an all new 64 bit only build with systemd, efi support and grub? What ever you guys decide it will be Gold and worth waiting for. Thanks
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: metvas on November 14, 2019, 09:34:20 pm
Hello:
What if I message each person who has been involved and see if there is any interest in taking VL further. Maybe a good idea ? At least then we will know for sure. I know Kait is too busy already contacted her and thanked her for all of her help over the years.
Darrell
Title: Re: VL ongoing
Post by: roarde on November 15, 2019, 09:14:45 am
Webchat (https://webchat.oftc.net/?channels=vectorlinux&uio=MT11bmRlZmluZWQb1)