VectorLinux

The Vectorian Lounge => The Lounge => Topic started by: Triarius Fidelis on May 01, 2007, 08:08:23 pm

Title: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 01, 2007, 08:08:23 pm
[snip embarrassing lead-in]

...and so today I found out that the one girl I was interested in was not merely taken, but in fact married...and then I saw the Norns in my head:

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/9118/nornsyc7.jpg)

This sucks, guys. I need some help. Short of dating depressingly stupid women there's no one that isn't taken. Any advice here?
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: metvas on May 01, 2007, 11:32:30 pm
Hello hanumizzle:

At a time like this words often reach the ears of the listener rather hollow. However I will attempt to shed some perspective on this that you may not yet thought of should you care to listen.
As this relationship did not come to fruition you will never know if it would have been your Nirvana of relationships or your worst nightmare. That realization in itself would have been much more destructive to you, had it not worked out for you once being in it, be thankful of that.
There is not much more in the Universe that hurts as much as a broken heart. That broken heart will now be gentler, intuitive and understanding for your next relationship. Your partner when she does arrive will be most likely of the same stock or at least similar in many respects.
Start thinking of her, every day and she will arrive. It is a bit like walking along a path with a lantern you can only see one step ahead of yourself. Every once in a while a flash of light allows you to see further along that path just for an instant then it is back to one step at a time. Keep looking forward, doing the right thing never knowing if it is right enough or not always err to the good and the Universe will bestow upon you the right thing back. Your partner.
Don’t loose sight of the trees for the forest though. You must put that energy around you to attract her. I will be patiently waiting to hear from you some day about that new partner.
Sometimes a rocky road can take you a beautiful place.
Warm Regards
Darrell

Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: nightflier on May 02, 2007, 04:26:16 am
Hanumizzle,

I don't know your exact age, but my guess is that time is on your side. Both for healing and getting there.

Personal relationships can bring us our greatest joy as well as our deepest sorrows, They are also complicated and have a steep learning curve. Much effort and compromising is involved. Still, they are worth it. More than that, they are essential.

When looking for prospective partners, often the problem is insufficient exposure and choice. If you only see a few you get tunnel vision. You need to go where the girls are. Social clubs, gyms, sports and similar. I have had great success with on-line services. And give it time. It will happen.

Go get'em.
Roy
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: blurymind on May 02, 2007, 06:51:56 am
women...they never tell you,before its too late.  :( 

dont worry man, its not the end of the world. I am sure you will meet a better one sooner or later.

Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: rbistolfi on May 02, 2007, 08:03:31 am
It really sucks, you need to do your best, and you will become stronger... later. And remember:
If the Heraclitus sentence is rigth,

πάντα χωρεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει
Everything flows and nothing stands still
(Plato, Cratylus 402a)

the pain will flow too.

my best wishes for you, Rodrigo.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 02, 2007, 11:23:18 am
Personal relationships can bring us our greatest joy as well as our deepest sorrows, They are also complicated and have a steep learning curve. Much effort and compromising is involved. Still, they are worth it. More than that, they are essential.

Just for the sake of pedantry, I submit that isn't strictly true. It is essential for me though because, unfortunately, I do not have the strength of intellect of some people *cough* Pál Erdös! *hack*

(http://whenswho.redgolpe.com/210.gif)

When looking for prospective partners, often the problem is insufficient exposure and choice. If you only see a few you get tunnel vision. You need to go where the girls are. Social clubs, gyms, sports and similar. I have had great success with on-line services. And give it time. It will happen.

What circumscribes this is that I have almost no time or money and I don't like anything that isn't completely male-dominated. I like:


Well you get the idea.  I also have Asperger syndrome which makes it virtually impossible for me to conduct 'small talk', and for the same reason I generally find large gatherings of people dreadful regardless the occasion.

the pain will flow too.

Yes—in Gimlé...
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Colonel Panic on May 02, 2007, 11:39:22 am
You have my sympathies from first-hand experience (I have Asperger's too). I hope things will look up for you, but in the meantime you might enjoy this website;

http://isnt.autistics.org/

It's a humorous site which looks at the "normal" social world through the eyes of someone with an *ASD.

* Autistic spectrum disorder.

Asperger's is quite frequently found amongst people who need to be able to concentrate long and hard on a subject or problem without distraction. A lot of IT tech people have it, including (so it is rumoured) Bill Gates.


Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 02, 2007, 01:06:44 pm
Wait. That's a link to E17 builds for Slackware! :o

Do you have the ISNT site in mind? I've seen it before.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: tomh38 on May 02, 2007, 01:59:11 pm
hanumizzle  ... though I don't know anything about you except from your great work with VL and your extremely helpful posts in these forums, you have my sympathy that this worked out so badly.  Though I don't have Asperger's, I have a friend who does, and I myself am extremely shy (if I went to a psychotherapist I would probably be diagnosed with Social Phobia or something like that).  So, I might (might!) have a little bit of an idea of what you're going through.  I just turned 40 a week ago Saturday, and didn't meet my girlfriend until 5 years ago.  I met her in a book club which I joined to discuss ideas (not to meet women - I had long since given up on that) and she just happened to be interested in many of the same things I am. Things developed from there.  Anyway, I'm not suggesting you join a book club (or, with all due respect to nightflier, a social club, a gym, or something similar).  Nevertheless, I do think that it is very likely that there are women out there who are right for you, including women who would understand your difficulty with small talk and so on.  You might meet someone by chance, as happened to me, though I would suggest that you keep looking.  You seem like a very intelligent guy.  It might help you to approach this challenge as you would other intellectual challenges; quite possibly you'll come up with some ideas about how to meet someone who is right for you.
Just my .02.
Tom
P.S.  What you're going through does suck.  There's no getting around it.  When I was 25 the girl I was in love with not only married another guy but also failed to give back (stole!) my leather jacket.  The last time I saw it the guy she ended up marrying was wearing it.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 02, 2007, 05:57:54 pm
It might help you to approach this challenge as you would other intellectual challenges; quite possibly you'll come up with some ideas about how to meet someone who is right for you.

Of all things that govern human behavior, logic is one of the least. So WADR I'm not sure that will work.

However, I did come up with one idea: find a pen-pal service. I can exercise some language I know already, or learn a new one altogether; I know already that people tend to be strongly impressed when an American speaks something other than English, or knows anything about someone else's history or culture.

As an added bonus, because of Jolly Old England's ancient turbulence, many of the languages I like are relatively easy to learn and are associated with hawt women. (I would give a visual aid, but that would be NSFW.)

Anyone know some good services?
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: LLL on May 02, 2007, 06:09:28 pm
You will be without - and feel like you'll never find your 'with' - until you are not.

Wrap your head around it, feel it - all of it - and keep breathing.

LLL

P.S. 6,000,000,000.

P.P.S. Your openness to discuss your life, your feelings, etc. leaves you more healthily connected than many 'normal' people.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 02, 2007, 06:14:00 pm
P.S. 6,000,000,000.

??? I'm not sure what the context of this is. Is it hopefully the number of good pen-pal services you know? I've Googled around, of course, but I'm bewildered by all the options.

I can be a real klutz at uncomplicated things, you know; it wasn't 'til the ripe old age of eight that I learned how to tie my shoes...
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: tomh38 on May 02, 2007, 06:54:17 pm
"Of all things that govern human behavior, logic is one of the least. So WADR I'm not sure that will work."

Oh, I completely agree.  I wasn't suggesting that you rely on logic in a relationship, or that intellect is even particularly relevant in determining whether or not you're attracted to someone; my idea was that you use your intellectual abilities to come up with some ideas for how to meet some women - which you've done; you thought of using a pen-pal service and your language skills in combination.

Concerning the pen-pal services, I personally don't know which ones might be good.  However, I have some friends in Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland (are any of those countries interesting to you?) who might know which ones would be good.  If you like, I can contact them, and see what I can find out.  Unless you have an objection, I'll email and Skype some of my friends in Europe and email you what I find out

I think LLL was referring to the fact that there a 6 billion people on Earth - a lot of fish in the sea, in other words.  It doesn't seem likely that you would be interested in the 48% who are male, nor in the children or elderly among the female population   :D ... still, it's a good point.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 02, 2007, 08:24:55 pm
"Of all things that govern human behavior, logic is one of the least. So WADR I'm not sure that will work."

Oh, I completely agree.  I wasn't suggesting that you rely on logic in a relationship, or that intellect is even particularly relevant in determining whether or not you're attracted to someone

Well, it really is for me. In fact, it's crucial that the girl has an intellect. But intelligence and rational behavior are (somewhat) orthogonal. As Johann-Wolfgang von Goethe said: "A clever man makes no small mistake." The cruelest mistakes in history have all been committed by really smart people. It's not so bad, though, because I have nearly infinite tolerance for mistakes.

(I feel a little embarrassed here, because I guess my meaning wasn't all clear.)

Concerning the pen-pal services, I personally don't know which ones might be good.  However, I have some friends in Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Finland (are any of those countries interesting to you?) who might know which ones would be good.  If you like, I can contact them, and see what I can find out.  Unless you have an objection, I'll email and Skype some of my friends in Europe and email you what I find out

No objection whatever, of course. A note of caution though: Finnish belongs to the Finno-Ugric language group, which is entirely distinct from all Germanic tongues. It is really beautiful (and strongly informed the Elvish family of speech), but would be largely alien to me as an English speaker. Compare then this text in Faroese, a Scandinavian language not unlike Icelandic, to English:

Quote
Grani bar (bore) gullið (gold) av (of) heiði (heath)
Brá hann (he) sinum (sein (German)) brandi (brand) av (of) reiði (wrath)
Sjurður va a orminum (worm, in the sense of O.E. 'wyrm')
Grani bar (bore) gullið (gold) av (away) heiði (heath)!

All that's missing is that 'va a' (which appears to mean 'slew') and 'brá', which means 'swung'. I could guess everything else, and so we end with:

Quote
Greyfell bore gold away from the heath
Swung he his sword in wrath
Siegfried slew the dragon
Greyfell bore gold away from the heath

Too easy. I don't even know Faroese.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Colonel Panic on May 03, 2007, 12:04:27 am
Wait. That's a link to E17 builds for Slackware! :o

Do you have the ISNT site in mind? I've seen it before.

Oh hell, yes it is. I had problems with the board yesterday and I've got 'flu, so those are my excuses.

Yes you're right, it was the ISNT site I was trying to show you; I've changed the link for anyone else who might be interested.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Colonel Panic on May 03, 2007, 12:11:59 am
When I was 25 the girl I was in love with not only married another guy but also failed to give back (stole!) my leather jacket. The last time I saw it the guy she ended up marrying was wearing it.


Oh noes! Glad you eventually found someone though.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: rbistolfi on May 03, 2007, 09:38:22 am
Quote
Quote from: rbistolfi on May 02, 2007, 10:03:31 AM
the pain will flow too.

Yes—in Gimlé...

Hey, we will have a lot of sunny days before we finally meet in Gimlé...

About languages... I am from Argentina, so a spanish speaker. I am a philosophy student/lover/writer too. I think one of the more importants man of spanish language was Miguel de Unamuno. He learned Danish to read Søren Kierkegaard and translate it to spanish. This is the beginning of Existentialism for spanish speakers. Miguel discovered there was a different meaning in the word for being. In danish it have a transitive character there is not in spanish. This makes the difference between substance and accident, between noumenon and phaenomenon null. The same thing in Germanic languages. I really wanted to study all this kind of languages, but I did not, yet. I spend some time with latin and greek, nothing else. Greek mythology was my interest too, I know you enjoy nordic (this world really needs Balder, damn). I spend a lot of time with linux now.
The thing is, I told about this things to my girl... a lot. She was really bored sometimes. But she is my wife now, and we have a daughter. Reading philosophy a lot can make a guy a bit weird. Some days I cant go out, I cant speak with people, I am too worried in being and nothing, in sein and zeit and I dont know what other things, I get lost in another world, but she still with me. So, looks like there is one girl for every man.
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 03, 2007, 12:27:54 pm
Hanumizzle,

I don't know your exact age, but my guess is that time is on your side. Both for healing and getting there.

Come May 19, 19!
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: nightflier on May 03, 2007, 11:55:05 pm
Come may May 19, 19!

Ah, to be a kid again.....

I have children older than you. My observation is that your status is far from unique. At that age there is still a lot to learn, like patience, among other things ;)

Happy upcoming Birthday!
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 01:16:08 am
Come may May 19, 19!

Ah, to be a kid again.....

It sucks. I will never look on it fondly.

I know I sound bitter, but there's a reason people think I'm in my mid-twenties: youth has been crushed out of me completely.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nightflier on May 04, 2007, 05:20:45 am
I am truly sorry.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Vanger on May 04, 2007, 11:09:23 am
There is a way out. Just live.

If you search only in areas, that you prefer:
Quote
Linux
Mythology
True metal
True metal
True metal
you're making a big mistake. Though common - I thought the same too ;) .
1) You think, that your girlfriend should be fond of the same things as you.
Why? If she listens only punk-rock - she's a lost case to you automatically? If she is lovely overall, I don't think you'd reject her. But, with this search method, you leave her beyond the scope.
2) You think, that your areas are limited only within those above.
Why? Why can't you suddenly find new, unexplored areas of interest? Why can't your gf show you it?
Your view is narrowed. Your search field is limited. Do you want it to go this way?

Don't use dating sites.
I know only one relationship that started from these services and went good (they are married now and are waiting a child ;) ). These two send their photos on the site just for fun.
If you would rely on them heavily, you'll only get frustrated.

Pen-friends.
Well.. Distance kills relationship.
Once I met a girl from another city in ICQ. We wrote articles in the same computer games magazine. To be short and quick - we had relationship, we had sex, but ultimately lack of synchronization of feelings killed all that.

So, once again. Stand up from the computer, get a life ;) .
I'm almost positive, that you need a physical training. That will make you more healthy, more physical attractive and you will spend more time with different real people. And, after all, you need enough stamina to perform you-know-what ;) .
Also, care about your appearance. Girl won't care about t-shirt with an image like http://funkysouls.com/img/Cannibal_Corpse_-_Tomb_of_Mutilated.jpg . But if this shirt is dirty, you smell and your hair isn't clean - you don't have much chances.
Most good jobs are offered to you via your friends. Most good girls get into your life randomly.

So just live your life and don't miss her ;) .
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 12:41:05 pm
There is a way out. Just live.

If you search only in areas, that you prefer:
Quote
Linux
Mythology
True metal
True metal
True metal
you're making a big mistake. Though common - I thought the same too ;) .
1) You think, that your girlfriend should be fond of the same things as you.
Why? If she listens only punk-rock - she's a lost case to you automatically? If she is lovely overall, I don't think you'd reject her. But, with this search method, you leave her beyond the scope.
2) You think, that your areas are limited only within those above.
Why? Why can't you suddenly find new, unexplored areas of interest?

The one-word answer: autism. The longer answer is that I've tried to feign interest in pop culture and such, but it could never rub off on me. Actually, the first thing I think of when I see the letters gf together is the Product or Quotient Rule, and I'm not even that good at calculus...

And no, she isn't a lost case to me even if she does like punk rock—although it is a sign of poor taste. :D

Also, care about your appearance. Girl won't care about t-shirt with an image like http://funkysouls.com/img/Cannibal_Corpse_-_Tomb_of_Mutilated.jpg . But if this shirt is dirty, you smell and your hair isn't clean - you don't have much chances.

With all due respect, that statement assumes too much. First of all—like my ancestors—I practice thorough hygiene even if one might think that I don't. Here is a recent picture of me for an idea of what I look like:

(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8807/hanuatcompuz7.jpg)
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Vanger on May 04, 2007, 01:25:49 pm
The one-word answer: autism. The longer answer is that I've tried to feign interest in pop culture and such, but it could never rub off on me.
You don't need to be interested in. And, if you try to get in the pop culture, you have to sacrifice your brain. It's, of course,  your private decision, but please, make new vasm first, don't leave us now ;) .

Quote
And no, she isn't a lost case to me even if she does like punk rock—although it is a sign of poor taste. :D
Well, my girlfriend is slowly moving from 80's rock to black metal ;) . The tastes are changing. The soul remains.

Quote
With all due respect, that statement assumes too much. First of all—like my ancestors—I practice thorough hygiene even if one might think that I don't.

That's a rarity ;) . That's a plus ;) .

Quote
Here is a recent picture of me for an idea of what I look like:
Well, my girlfriend said, that your face is kind of interesting. There is nothing repulsive in it, but nothing attracting. She advices you to shave your beard off, and make your haircut more accurate - that will make your face look like a.. young attractive face. She even says, that it would be somewhat similar to mine then: http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b322/faijeya/2007winter/081.jpg (181K)
Also, she advices you to get slightly more weight and keep your back more straight. Get more physical excersices, too.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 01:56:17 pm
I only got my haircut a few days ago. I guess I'll have to comb more often...I'll turn into Tanglehair otherwise.

And I exercise every day really. It's just in my genetics that I have a slight build and there's not much I can do about that. I can't lift heavy weights, but under good circumstances I can run many kilometers without pause or shortness of breath. The fetters of winter have almost broken away and I feel quite healthy now, actually.

I need to keep my Beard Sense though. Otherwise, how will I know if Ninjas are trying to attack me?

(http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/gimli/soundstoppic.jpg)

NOT THE BEARD!!!
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 04, 2007, 02:34:51 pm
Hanu, you look nice, dont follow Vanger's girl advice. She has not a good taste  ;D ;D
Hygiene or looks have nothing to do with love. I see nice girls with dirty guys all the time. Actually, the reason of one girl or guy likes another is an old mystery.

Quote
1) You think, that your girlfriend should be fond of the same things as you.
Why?

True.

Quote
Well.. Distance kills relationship.
No. If your distance between you and your girl is equal to zero, then you are in love with yourself. Distance and Difference is the essentia of love.

Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Vanger on May 04, 2007, 02:54:59 pm
I only got my haircut a few days ago. I guess I'll have to comb more often...I'll turn into Tanglehair otherwise.

And I exercise every day really. It's just in my genetics that I have a slight build and there's not much I can do about that. I can't lift heavy weights, but under good circumstances I can run many kilometers without pause or shortness of breath. The fetters of winter have almost broken away and I feel quite healthy now, actually.

I need to keep my Beard Sense though. Otherwise, how will I know if Ninjas are trying to attack me?

NOT THE BEARD!!!

Well, if you feel you're just ideal, then sit and wait ;) .

Hanu, you look nice, dont follow Vanger's girl advice. She has not a good taste  ;D ;D
RRRRR!

Quote
Hygiene or looks have nothing to do with love. I see nice girls with dirty guys all the time. Actually, the reason of one girl or guy likes another is an old mystery.
As far as I know, it's a rarity ;) .

Quote
No. If your distance between you and your girl is equal to zero, then you are in love with yourself. Distance and Difference is the essentia of love.
No. Lack of synchronisation kills. If you are able to teleport - then distance means nothing to you. But then you really need to be afraid of telefrags ;) .
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 03:00:06 pm
Well, hygiene should be a high priority on everyone's list, because it's a health and safety issue, not just aesthetic. Myself, I feel positively filthy if I don't shower after a single day.

I really think I could maintain a distance relationship—because people are drawn to me for my mental and character attributes. And so much the better to meet her in person then, right?
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Vanger on May 04, 2007, 03:14:11 pm
Try to. I'm not positive about this type, though.

Love is not just a poetic alliance of souls. Personally I can't help carry heavy bags, or calm a girl, worried by something on distance. Support, real, material is needed.. well, maybe I'm too materialistic and earth-bounded. Wish you luck ;) .
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 04, 2007, 03:15:37 pm
Quote
I really think I could maintain a distance relationship—because people are drawn to me for my mental and character attributes. And so much the better to meet her in person then, right?

I really could maintain a distance relationship myself, but I really think this is diff for everyone. But I dont think the distance is an advantage per se in any case. If you think asperger or austism or wharever  is against you, you are wrong, a nice person (girl or not) will understand if you tell about it, a decent person will. So, distance is not a condition (in spanish we say "condicion de posibilidad", translating Kant, I cant write it in english).

Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: The Headacher on May 04, 2007, 04:07:02 pm
There is a way out. Just live.

If you search only in areas, that you prefer:
Quote
Linux
Mythology
True metal
True metal
True metal
you're making a big mistake. Though common - I thought the same too ;) .
1) You think, that your girlfriend should be fond of the same things as you.
Why? If she listens only punk-rock - she's a lost case to you automatically? If she is lovely overall, I don't think you'd reject her. But, with this search method, you leave her beyond the scope.
2) You think, that your areas are limited only within those above.
Why? Why can't you suddenly find new, unexplored areas of interest? Why can't your gf show you it?
Your view is narrowed. Your search field is limited. Do you want it to go this way?
-----------snip-----------
Agreed.

I too spent some time searching for a girl that had similar interests as me. My interests too are mostly male dominated. Though it would be nice if a girl had all the same interests in theory, I've seen relationships of perfect soulmates fail and people that didn't seem to belong together at all are still happily together after a long time. I suppose it might very well be true that opposites attract.

You have to ask yourself if shared interests/hobbies are more important than interest in one another. It is unfair to yourself and the girls/women out there who might actually be "interested" in you to select a partner on criteria like those.

Quote
I'm almost positive, that you need a physical training. That will make you more healthy, more physical attractive and you will spend more time with different real people. And, after all, you need enough stamina to perform you-know-what ;) .
It's also a great way to build some confidence. It feels good to do the best you can and to see improvement in your performance. When I've done well in sport I can feel good about that for a few days. When my muscles ache from the warming up at the club, I know it's usually just harmless myalgia that will only make my muscles stronger, and therefore wear my pain with pride.

One word of caution though, if you haven't done sports in quite a while you really should start easy. I didn't and ended up with achilles tendonitis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_tendonitis). It's not too bad and should be gone in a few days or so (according to the doctor), but I'm pretty sad I can't sport now. Ironically, it might be a result of cycling too much, not of (pretty hardcore) training at the martial arts club I joined a few weeks ago.

Also, sports can be one of the interests you do share with your next partner.
Quote
So just live your life and don't miss her ;) .
This looks like some fine advice to me... Last monday was a national holiday here, and just before I was going to leave I exchanged a few words with a girl.. It took me quite a long time to realize that she actually liked me (that doesn't happen a lot to me), when I realized my mistake it was already too late and I had a serious d'oh moment:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c3/D_oh.jpg/250px-D_oh.jpg)
I take it as a necessary learning moment though. Next time I'll know earlier and I will act accordingly: I will have a proper talk with the girl and see where we end up.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: GrannyGeek on May 04, 2007, 04:28:34 pm
I don't think there's anything wrong with the way you look.  Bear in mind that you could easily be my grandson. Someone who would automatically reject you because she thought you were too thin or too short or too heavy or too tall or bald or whatever is not someone you want a deep relationship with.

At 19, what are you worried about? I realize you'd like someone special in your life now and I hope you find that person, but you have a lot of years ahead of you before you need to panic. I met GrampaGeek in a very unlikely place; we've been married for almost 42 years. I had two or three serious romances when I was in college and it really hurt when they ended, but now I'm glad I didn't marry them and found GrampaGeek instead. So things work out in the end.

I'm impressed that you want a woman with brains. When *I* was a girl, we weren't supposed to let on that we were smart. That was considered a sure ticket to Old Maid-hood. Needless to say, GrampaGeek broke with the male culture of his time. Plus, I was out of college by the time I met him.

Be yourself. Be friendly without being fake. Don't be too picky. Be realistic--you'll never find a perfect person with everything you're hoping for. Set some priorities for attitudes and interests she simply must share. The rest don't matter. For Grampa and me, we couldn't abide someone who didn't share our political views, religious views (nonreligious), and love for animals. We don't understand how James Carville and Mary Matalan can stand each other.

Keep us posted. :)
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 04:40:17 pm
Be yourself. Be friendly without being fake. Don't be too picky. Be realistic--you'll never find a perfect person with everything you're hoping for. Set some priorities for attitudes and interests she simply must share. The rest don't matter. For Grampa and me, we couldn't abide someone who didn't share our political views, religious views (nonreligious), and love for animals. We don't understand how James Carville and Mary Matalan can stand each other.

Keep us posted. :)
--GrannyGeek

Ok, good points all. Who knows, sometimes I have a really strange charisma over others...if my friends got me to like metal through the band Opeth, I can perhaps do the same thing. :)

Certain world views are important to me. I am basically center-left, so I don't see this as much of a problem... And my religious beliefs come from Protestantism, Judaism, Buddhism, and Heithi, so I can really tolerate a lot of different others.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 04, 2007, 04:55:47 pm
I really enjoied reading your story Granny, thanks for share it!
Say hi to GrampaGeek.

Quote
For Grampa and me, we couldn't abide someone who didn't share our political views, religious views (nonreligious), and love for animals.
I think you are rigth about this, I could not stay with a woman with diff political ideas. I am not a religious guy  (most of the time) but I admire others faith sometimes, and sometimes I wish to be one of them (oh could be so warm to beleive in something else than this world!).

Quote
And my religious beliefs come from Protestantism, Judaism, Buddhism, and Heithi, so I can really tolerate a lot of different others.
That could be a nice religion to study...if I would a theolugus ;)
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 07:36:44 pm
I really enjoied reading your story Granny, thanks for share it!
Say hi to GrampaGeek.

Quote
For Grampa and me, we couldn't abide someone who didn't share our political views, religious views (nonreligious), and love for animals.
I think you are rigth about this, I could not stay with a woman with diff political ideas. I am not a religious guy  (most of the time) but I admire others faith sometimes, and sometimes I wish to be one of them (oh could be so warm to beleive in something else than this world!).

Think about it. What differentiates a conscious being from the unfeeling lump of welded silicon I am using to type this post? I arrived at the conclusion there is something that makes creatures more than the sums of their parts. I cannot find an exact English word to call it by, but Atemseele (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atemseele) and Atman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atman_%28Hinduism%29) are pretty close, the 'vital breath'.

For the reader's edification, the two are in fact related (http://smallschool.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?single=1&basename=/data/ie/piet&text_number=+221&root=config).
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: GrannyGeek on May 04, 2007, 09:29:00 pm
Think about it. What differentiates a conscious being from the unfeeling lump of welded silicon I am using to type this post?

Unromantic though it may be to say, what differentiates a conscious being is a functioning brain. Throw in genes and the unique personal environment that shapes us and there you have it.

This doesn't rule out things like awe and altruism. It just doesn't assume there must be some spirit world to explain these things.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 09:40:01 pm
Think about it. What differentiates a conscious being from the unfeeling lump of welded silicon I am using to type this post?

Unromantic though it may be to say, what differentiates a conscious being is a functioning brain.

Exactly. How does a two-pound mass of nervous tissue feel? If all thought and sensation resolve to the very base level of electrical impulses and chemical reactions, why can't machines think?

Despite our great deficiencies in speed and memory, there is one redeeming trait for the human brain: it boasts a far greater scope of computation than even our most sophisticated digital computers, just as they themselves greatly surpass comparatively primitive analog devices like the difference engine and Pascaline in the same respect. There is no way I could present empirical evidence for this—I don't mean to anyway—but I believe that to be such computers, all life and life processes in general, and humans in particular, are invested with an Atemseele (literally, breath-soul) that transcends the physical world.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 04, 2007, 09:40:55 pm
 :o ...only I could do this to a thread, given the original topic.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 05, 2007, 02:25:22 pm
Quote
I arrived at the conclusion there is something that makes creatures more than the sums of their parts. I cannot find an exact English word to call it by, but Atemseele and Atman are pretty close, the 'vital breath'.

Well, I do believe "there is something that makes creatures more than the sums of their parts". To be honest, I think there is a fact about it, something make the multiple, one. But I think we cant have knowledge about it. We dont know if that unity is given by our soul, or it is just a sustantive, an empty word, even a noise. Most of the time is not a trouble for me. Some times I believe that the human abilitie to have a language, to make culture, to share an space biger than themselfs is the key to understand this things. Sometimes when I feel realy great, (listening music, reading a great book, or just spending some time with my wife and the little baby) I believe in something bigger, something powerfull, like a god or Atman, we could say. The worst day I think all of this is just an ilusion and empty idea created by the structure of our language, by the sustantive, the subject.
But the real thing is we cant know too much about this. My previous words are based on my own feelings and states of my mind. Is not a genuine philosophical reaserch.
I think, Granny, is a fact we cant resolve this empiricly, the science have very little tools to take the lead on this discusion.
What differentiates a conscious being is this: if we work a lot, and I mean a lot, If we study and we do a lot of efforts, if we have luck, and if the rest of the world help us, we could make our own fate, we could choose and be the owners of ourselves, and we could have our freedom. May be. Is just a little chance. But machines dont have it. Software. Software is the difference.

PS to the new members of the forum: Usually we are funny and happy people, we are just having hard days now  ;)

PS2: Sorry, my english is not good enough to talk about this things. I readed Quine, Russell and others in english at college, but I cant remember anithing of that  >:(

PS3: When I say "software" I think in "La biblioteca de babel" (The babel library) of JL Borges, http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/library_of_babel.html
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 05, 2007, 08:24:50 pm
But the real thing is we cant know too much about this. My previous words are based on my own feelings and states of my mind. Is not a genuine philosophical reaserch.

I will hold a belief in such an Atman or Atemseele no matter how many human behaviors suggest the contrary...

What differentiates a conscious being is this: if we work a lot, and I mean a lot, If we study and we do a lot of efforts, if we have luck, and if the rest of the world help us, we could make our own fate, we could choose and be the owners of ourselves, and we could have our freedom. May be. Is just a little chance. But machines dont have it. Software. Software is the difference.

LOLOL, that's like the one verse from Magic of the Wizard's Dream.

PS2: Sorry, my english is not good enough to talk about this things. I readed Quine, Russell and others in english at college, but I cant remember anithing of that  >:(

I read some of Bertrand Russell's philosophical texts as well. I disagreed with mostly everything he had to say about religion, but I did agree with most of his other social, economic, and political viewpoints.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 05, 2007, 09:28:42 pm
Quote
I will hold a belief in such an Atman or Atemseele no matter how many human behaviors suggest the contrary...

Good... we just cant have knowledge, I mean scientific knowledge (a priori or a posteriori). But we can keep our faith.

Quote
LOLOL, that's like the one verse from Magic of the Wizard's Dream.
Wow! good for me, I will try to listen Raphsody, I never did. I can read english, with some effort, but listening will be a hard work. I will find the lirycs.

Quote
I read some of Bertrand Russell's philosophical texts as well. I disagreed with mostly everything he had to say about religion, but I did agree with most of his other social, economic, and political viewpoints.
Yes, of course. His point of view over religion is wrong, a religion is much more than a superstition! I was very interested on his language theory and the semantic paradox. The denotation, logic phylosophy. His mathemathic philosophy...a great thinker. I dont like his ideas about Nietzche and other germans, he was bad influenced by the war, I think.

Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 05, 2007, 09:43:31 pm
I had the German version in mind in particular, but the English translation is close enough. It says

Quote
I know which is my fate
Bound to Erian's old tale
I'll be always there
Fighting the ancient sin
Moonshine in this eternal night

The German text sounded better to do me, and for the record that goes

Quote
Mein Schicksal ist mir klar
Wie schon Erian es erzählt
Werd' ich immer sein
Und kämpfen gegen alte Sünd'
Mondschein in dieser ew'gen Nacht

My fate is clear to me, as already Erian explained: I will always survive and fight against old sins...moonshine in this eternal night
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: GrannyGeek on May 05, 2007, 10:32:06 pm
I read some of Bertrand Russell's philosophical texts as well. I disagreed with mostly everything he had to say about religion, but I did agree with most of his other social, economic, and political viewpoints.

I, in contrast, agree with most of what Russell says about religion. I don't know why people cling to this so desperately. Well, I *do* know the psychological pull. But Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy had a psychological pull, too.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 05, 2007, 10:50:41 pm
The notion of God is certainly much older than Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, and it's also about something more meaningful. Rather than a half-dollar or some toy, it's about the "why?" I know this sounds totally childish, but I think there is a "why"; otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Whether there is a continuation of consciousness after death, I can't really guess. To me, absolute death is not anywhere near as scary a prospect as assuming the sickly corporeal husk again (i.e., reincarnation). I hope I will have done enough to be ready for it if it does happen anyway.

/me goes to look for fresh newbie posts to bump up his score...
Title: Re: this sucks
Post by: LLL on May 06, 2007, 07:34:58 am
Come may May 19, 19!

Ah, to be a kid again.....

It sucks. I will never look on it fondly.

I know I sound bitter, but there's a reason people think I'm in my mid-twenties: youth has been crushed out of me completely.

Hanu: I'm not much older than you, but when I read the above, I knew it wasn't true.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Lyn on May 06, 2007, 09:09:39 am
I read some of Bertrand Russell's philosophical texts as well. I disagreed with mostly everything he had to say about religion, but I did agree with most of his other social, economic, and political viewpoints.

I, in contrast, agree with most of what Russell says about religion. I don't know why people cling to this so desperately. Well, I *do* know the psychological pull. But Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy had a psychological pull, too.
--GrannyGeek

I tend to follow Pratchett on this, as in the Hogfather... these things are anthropormophic personifications of what happens. 

Our gods are our invention, a way of rationalising the universe, no more than that.... they do have an appeal  I grant you, but no more than does the tooth fairy or Sion Corn/Father Christmas.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Vanger on May 06, 2007, 10:05:39 am
I like copy-pasting philosophical verses too, like

Quote from: Machinae Supremacy
Sweetest of all lies
one of everlasting life.
No one wants to die
but we do, so we hide.
What you fail to realize
is there's no need to fear.
You live on in the hearts and minds
of those who hold you dear, who are right here.

but, well, does it bring you closer to the topic of the theme?
There are more girls in Heaven or Earth then meant in your philosophy.

Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 06, 2007, 12:15:47 pm
Quote
I tend to follow Pratchett on this, as in the Hogfather... these things are anthropormophic personifications of what happens.

Our gods are our invention, a way of rationalising the universe, no more than that.... they do have an appeal  I grant you, but no more than does the tooth fairy or Sion Corn/Father Christmas.

This is a very simple way to see the problem. Gods are personifications in some cultures.  I dont know almost anything about Santa or those things you mention, but the kids loves them.

If we choose our language very carefully, we can separate (as the chemist do) a problem from experimental science, from anthropology and psicology, and from the other sciences. There is a methaphysyc problem. A lot of religions are based on this problem. They talk about it with their special language. With their own logic. If you read Heidegger, or Nietzche, or Kant, or Derrida ( to put someone from these days) or may be Russell himself, you will find this problem, the same problem with different logic.
The Russell a priori is wrong, because religion is a speech about a genuine problem. Is a speech -like all the others- with own and particular rules. Just they are not the rules of the science, or the rules of Math (but this problem has a math view, see Alain Badiou, for example, or Pascal, or Leibniz).
There is nothing about fantasy or superstition on this. It's an accurated and rational problem (please note accurated and exact are not the same). We can ask: Are the humans free? their have a destiny? What am I really? What means the word "world"? You cant answer this questions empiricly. The psicology and anthropology cant answer them either, but that doesnt mean they are not genuine questions.

PS: This forum is great, we have our own theological discusion now  ;D
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 06, 2007, 09:06:08 pm
I read some of Bertrand Russell's philosophical texts as well. I disagreed with mostly everything he had to say about religion, but I did agree with most of his other social, economic, and political viewpoints.

I, in contrast, agree with most of what Russell says about religion. I don't know why people cling to this so desperately. Well, I *do* know the psychological pull. But Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy had a psychological pull, too.
--GrannyGeek

I tend to follow Pratchett on this, as in the Hogfather... these things are anthropormophic personifications of what happens. 

Our gods are our invention, a way of rationalising the universe, no more than that.... they do have an appeal  I grant you, but no more than does the tooth fairy or Sion Corn/Father Christmas.

rbistolfi said that some questions are not empirical, so it is more than some abstraction for nature.

For instance, one might say that the 'Destroyer' aspect of many religions is a way of representing the laws of thermodynamics, which cause physical processes to break down and terminate.

But here is where philosophy and religion step in, once the what and how are known: why do these constraints exist?

When you see bacteria in a petri dish and consider what would happen if growth could be infinite, then you appreciate them. Because conflicts center on finite resources, one could say that the First Law of Thermodynamics causes wars. On the same token, it also forces them to end. The same can be said for all things that ultimately break down and perish, even life itself.

One of the most important aspects of the supernatural, to me, is the Destroyer aspect. For me, it explains why there is dissolution and death through a kind of reductio ad absurdum argument; if they didn't exist, life really would be meaningless, because with infinite resources to sustain infinite life there'd be no cause for evolution or any other meaningful change to happen. And we think the laws of physics are cruel now! In truth, I have learned to revere the destructive power of nature.

Science is very useful in understanding the superficial aspects of nature, but the subtext is out of its domain.

I'm not sure if you see the point, but that's my 2 copper pieces.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Lyn on May 07, 2007, 12:39:18 am
The core of religion seems to be to give meaning to life, there is no meaning, life just is.  If we accept this then we lose a lot of heart ache in trying to make sense of harsh things and can get on with improving our lives and those of those round us.  Part of this is our vanity in trying to give us a special place in the universe, where we are part of a greater purpose, again this is just vanity.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 07, 2007, 06:17:12 am
The core of religion seems to be to give meaning to life, there is no meaning, life just is.  If we accept this then we lose a lot of heart ache in trying to make sense of harsh things and can get on with improving our lives and those of those round us.  Part of this is our vanity in trying to give us a special place in the universe, where we are part of a greater purpose, again this is just vanity.

WADR, your statement assumes two things falsely


Neither of them are strictly true. That's why, e.g., Hindus do not really ascribe a human shape to God (in essence). Isaac Newton didn't either. It would be vain to do so, I agree, but it's not strictly necessary.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 07, 2007, 08:08:18 am
Quote
The core of religion seems to be to give meaning to life
That is true just in a few cases. You can say that a Paradise idea, a live after death, give meaning to life. I say that can give meaning to death, but this life still a mystery. The interesting religions gives you questions, not answers.

Quote
If we accept this then we lose a lot of heart ache in trying to make sense of harsh things and can get on with improving our lives and those of those round us.
Again. this is true just in a few cases. You have a wrong abstract idea about religion, based just in a few cases of particulars forms of Christianism. Take a look to old europeans* religions and you will understand what I  am trying to say.

Quote
Part of this is our vanity in trying to give us a special place in the universe, where we are part of a greater purpose, again this is just vanity.
I cant see vanity in people who believe in an infinite god, and think about themself like a infinitesimal no-sense material thing in the universe. I am not one of them, may be I have some vanity, because I think some gods want to be humans sometimes. Like Zeus when he is in love with some mortal, or Jehova Himself, when deny His Own Nature in Jesus. Thr is a lot of points of view over the same thing. As hanu said, your ideas are not necessary about religion in general, but about some particular cases.

WADR, your statement assumes two things falsely

  • Religion is inherently contrary to humanism (e.g., Galatian doctrine)
  • Religion forces us to put ourselves at the center of the Universe

Very good point hanu. Even we can say atheism is not necessary against religion, take a look to the mystic doctrine, like Maister Eckhart. Or the oriental religions, looks like their main proposition is "god, me and the universe are nothing".
Sorry, but I cant see vanity in that, but the opposite.

* Edited to keep friendship between nice people  ;) and because I have not a warrior ancestor, and is always convenient to not offend that kind of people.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: tomh38 on May 07, 2007, 11:16:10 am
Wow, hanumizzle, I kind of got caught up in some things and totally lost track of this thread.  A buddy of mine in Sweden is going to get back to me about the pen-pal thing, if you're still interested.

Hope you're feeling better.

Tom
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: shahgols on May 07, 2007, 12:20:04 pm
Try reading some of the articles here:

http://www.sosuave.com (http://www.sosuave.com)

Participate at the forums, which are really active.

Better yet, start by reading this old thread and follow along.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=86985 (http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=86985)

Some of the techniques are just ridiculous, but there are a TON of good advice and techniques there.  Once you get past the boot camp, you'll never have problem with the ladies, specially the "not enough ladies around" problem.   ;)
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 07, 2007, 07:02:33 pm
Quote
If we accept this then we lose a lot of heart ache in trying to make sense of harsh things and can get on with improving our lives and those of those round us.
Again. this is true just in a few cases. You have a wrong abstract idea about religion, based just in a few cases of particulars forms of [Christianity]. Take a look at the Valhalla idea and you will understand what I  am trying to say.

Mentioning the battle-cult of the Norsemen to a Welsh user was probably a mistake...  ;)
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 07, 2007, 07:28:49 pm
Wow, hanumizzle, I kind of got caught up in some things and totally lost track of this thread.  A buddy of mine in Sweden is going to get back to me about the pen-pal thing, if you're still interested.

Yes, thank you.

What's one more Germanic language anyway? The syntax is closer to Englisc and there's only two kinds of nouns, many of which can be guessed when given with the inflected definite article. My birthday is coming up so I'll be able to buy some books I guess.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 07, 2007, 08:34:41 pm
By the Late John Brockman
http://www.edge.org/btljb/cover.html

Iron Joe Bob
http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Joe-Bob-Briggs/dp/0871135531
table of contents, excerpts
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0871135531/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-2696872-9558218#reader-link
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Lyn on May 08, 2007, 01:01:32 am
Quote
If we accept this then we lose a lot of heart ache in trying to make sense of harsh things and can get on with improving our lives and those of those round us.
Again. this is true just in a few cases. You have a wrong abstract idea about religion, based just in a few cases of particulars forms of [Christianity]. Take a look at the Valhalla idea and you will understand what I  am trying to say.

Mentioning the battle-cult of the Norsemen to a Welsh user was probably a mistake...  ;)

LOL :-)
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 08, 2007, 09:18:27 am
Quote
If we accept this then we lose a lot of heart ache in trying to make sense of harsh things and can get on with improving our lives and those of those round us.
Again. this is true just in a few cases. You have a wrong abstract idea about religion, based just in a few cases of particulars forms of [Christianity]. Take a look at the Valhalla idea and you will understand what I  am trying to say.

Mentioning the battle-cult of the Norsemen to a Welsh user was probably a mistake...  ;)
LOL :-)

Taken, was my mistake. I meet some Welsh users at Chubut, the south of Argentina (Yr Ariannin  ;) ). My wife is borned there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_settlement_in_Argentina
I didnt note your flag. I put that example just because I used to see a girl from norway, and is a familiar theme for me (I was trying to impress her talking about her culture, didnt work).
BTW I really can understand your idea about religion. And even Russells idea. Many mystakes happened in the name of religion. I gess I just want to make a point about a philosophical aproach to the religion topic, and some speechs abd traditions have a value, a great  value.
Lyn, my apollogies again, please note the edit over the original post.

Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 08, 2007, 10:01:18 am
Nice reading, nubcunudo. I knewed about http://www.edge.org/btljb/cover.html
Good to see it again.

Quote
It's a world of words.

I like that, but I dont think, like the author, "they signify nothing other than themselves". This is essencial on our disscusion. I think words, even when they are a pray, points, they are theleological.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Lyn on May 08, 2007, 01:56:30 pm

Taken, was my mistake. I meet some Welsh users at Chubut, the south of Argentina (Yr Ariannin  ;) ). My wife is borned there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_settlement_in_Argentina
I didnt note your flag. I put that example just because I used to see a girl from norway, and is a familiar theme for me (I was trying to impress her talking about her culture, didnt work).
BTW I really can understand your idea about religion. And even Russells idea. Many mystakes happened in the name of religion. I gess I just want to make a point about a philosophical aproach to the religion topic, and some speechs abd traditions have a value, a great  value.
Lyn, my apollogies again, please note the edit over the original post.



Don't worry no offense taken :-) fascinating that your wife was from our former colony :-)

Its a very interesting subject, religion. 
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 08, 2007, 10:41:55 pm
Know thyself.

The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) is a non-judgmental psychological profile commonly used in many settings, including corporate. You will be surprised at the uncanny accuracy of this system, which evaluates personal preferences. Take the test and see which of the 16 types apply to you.

A type is indicated by four letters, and for each of the four letters there are two possibilities representing a pair of opposites, making a total of 16 types:

Introvert - Extrovert
Sensing - iNtuition
Feeling - Thinking
Perception - Judgment

Types:

idealist
ENFP  champion
INFP  healer
ENFJ  teacher
INFJ  counselor

rational
ENTP  inventor
INTP  architect
ENTJ  fieldmarshal
INTJ  mastermind

guardian
ESTJ  supervisor
ISTJ  inspector
ESFJ  provider
ISFJ  protector

artisan
ESTP  promoter
ISTP  crafter
ESFP  performer
ISFP  composer

Moreover, two of the four letters of a type indicate temperament, which is a broader class of generalization. It follows that there are 4 temperaments:

NF idealist
NT rational
SJ guardian
SP artisan

IMHO the reason this system works is that it's based on empirical observation, rather than some preconceived ideology.

resources:
http://www.typelogic.com/
http://www.keirsey.com/


Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 08, 2007, 11:20:21 pm
Two tests both said INTJ for me. Your turn...
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 08, 2007, 11:26:29 pm
INTJ. I must admit that I'm flattered by the description of my type, which makes me wonder. What really interests me is to understand other people by this mode of analysis. It's a hobby called "typewatching".

I think "mastermind" is a bit heavy-handed (loaded) as a label. At one time, the INTJ type was called "scientist".

INTJs have an unhappy tendency to escalate their standards of what they can accept as a good performance.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 10, 2007, 10:57:53 am
Just one taken, a quick from google test, I missunderstand a few questions, but the result is ENFJ...mmmmm,could be...

Did anotherone, ENTP.

BTW, what means "mastermind", I cant undestand it clearly, sounds like "Luke Skywalker" to me, or Gandalf... I want to be INTJ!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 10, 2007, 11:54:45 am
Try Keirsey's test. It's an adaptation of MBTI.

http://www.keirsey.com/

mastermind: def. a person who supplies the directing or creative intelligence for a project
                    def. a person who originates or is primarily responsible for the execution of a particular idea, project, or the
                            like. 

There are selective factors in this forum. It is probably heavily populated with INTJs and INTPs, NTs mostly. In a normal population, you see only 3 or 4 percent INTx, but here it's probably more like 30 or 40 percent.
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 10, 2007, 12:33:05 pm
BTW, what means "mastermind", I cant undestand it clearly, sounds like "Luke Skywalker" to me, or Gandalf... I want to be INTJ!!!!!!!!

Yes indeed...or as one would say in English: 'Magic Elf'... :)
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 10, 2007, 12:59:20 pm
Quote
Try Keirsey's test. It's an adaptation of MBTI.

http://www.keirsey.com/

You probably want to be ENTJ, not INTJ.

mastermind: def. a person who supplies the directing or creative intelligence for a project
                    def. a person who originates or is primarily responsible for the execution of a particular idea, project, or the
                            like. 

There are selective factors in this forum. It is probably heavily populated with INTJs and INTPs, NTs mostly. In a normal population, you see only 3 or 4 percent INTx, but here it's probably more like 30 or 40 percent.

Yeah, "fieldmarshal" sound nice too :)
I did somes in spanish, with some variants, all NTs.

Quote
Yes indeed...or as one would say in English: 'Magic Elf'...
"Magic Elf" is probably, the nicest way
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 10, 2007, 01:15:31 pm
rbistolfi:

Here's the test in Spanish
http://keirsey.com/span2.html
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Joe1962 on May 10, 2007, 03:59:33 pm
Heh... took "a type test for programmers" at http://www.eggheadcafe.com/articles/mb/default.asp. Guess I'm INTJ as well... ;D
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: GrannyGeek on May 10, 2007, 08:20:34 pm
Two tests said I'm an ISTJ.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 10, 2007, 08:36:49 pm
Check out this description, Granny:
http://www.personalitypage.com/ISTJ.html
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: GrannyGeek on May 10, 2007, 09:45:51 pm
A lot of that describes me well, but some of it was so off as to be laughable. For example:
"Their homes are likely to be tastefully furnished and immaculately maintained. They are acutely aware of their senses, and want to be in surroundings which fit their need for structure, order, and beauty."

Nobody would say our home is tastefully furnished, and it's usually a mess. Cleaning house is not a way I like to spend my time. That's just one example.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on May 10, 2007, 09:51:50 pm
Give the test one thing­­-it's a hell of a lot more accurate than the average horoscope.

[That's what an INTJ would say. See? Ed.]
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 11, 2007, 07:48:32 am
TJs - The Thinking-Judging Mode Types
http://www.gesher.org/Myers-Briggs/Profiles--TJ.HTM
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 11, 2007, 08:11:38 am
rbistolfi:

Here's the test in Spanish
http://keirsey.com/span2.html

The spanish tests are INTJ. I can see a pattern here...

Quote
They [ISTJs] place great importance on honesty and integrity. They are "good citizens" who can be depended on to do the right thing for their families and communities.

AND

Quote
ISTJs tend to believe in laws and traditions, and expect the same from others.

Both are not necessary compatible, sometimes do the rigth thing doesn´t imply respect laws and traditions.
(like when GrampaGeek choosed a woman with brains, or, if you like an example from literature, when Antigone barried her brother http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigone_%28Sophocles%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigone_%28Sophocles%29))

Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: rbistolfi on May 11, 2007, 08:35:35 am
I read the Grannys description too   ;D
Title: Re: this sucks—but there may be a way out
Post by: nubcnubdo on May 11, 2007, 08:45:48 am
Yep, seems like a lotta INTJs. :) With Joe1962 in the INTJ camp, I am thinking that maybe programming is an INTJ kind of activity. I viewed the homepage of a programmer who mentioned she was INTJ; did some important work for IBM.