VectorLinux

The Vectorian Lounge => The Lounge => Topic started by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 03:30:55 pm

Title: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 03:30:55 pm


Hi again!

I thought to ask if there are any soccer fans with the VL community.
I have been supporting Juventus since the '95-'96 campaign.

I thought to make a Top 10 list of my favorite soccer players of all-time :)
The list isn't in any particular order. There would be at least 10 more favorite players if I start to really think them through.
I once told a girl that I can name about 200 teams from the world and she didn't believe me.  :o
And I also told her that I could name at least 350-400 players if necessary. That she then believed  ;D

1. Alessandro Del Piero
2. Antonio Conte
3. Diego Maradona
4. Gianluigi Buffon
5. Gaetano Scirea
6. Fabrizio Ravanelli
7. Gianluca Vialli
8. Dino Zoff
9. Walter Samuel
10. Fabio Cannavaro
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: vvucic on June 21, 2007, 03:35:07 pm
Here in Serbia we have very good players that do have excellent scores in Europe.  Maybe , you can include some of them too ;)


veki
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 03:43:31 pm


This is a bit difficult. I have to recall my memory to Serbian players.

I remember a really good player from the early 90's and late 90's called Vladimir Jugovic. He was the guy who won the Champions League for Juventus back in '96. He scored the final penalty to decide the game for Juve against Ajax. That was my best memory of the game and that's from where my Juventus following started. :)

Other great Serbian players from the past I remember are Sinisa Mihjailovic. He had a terrific left foot on set pieces. :)
Of course a player from the present, Dejan Stankovic. He's a great player. :)
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: vvucic on June 21, 2007, 03:46:37 pm
Hello,

yes, some our players are listed in Rio De Janeiro museum of soccer :)

Ifg you liek I can send you names of some of our soccer players.

veki
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 03:49:53 pm


I have a good memory now, I looked over at Wikipedia to refresh my memory. :)

Ljubinko Drulović, Miroslav Đukić, Vladimir Jugović, Mateja Kežman, Darko Kovačević, Siniša Mihajlović, Savo Milošević, Dejan Stefanović. Slaviša Jokanović, Predrag Mijatović, Dejan Savićević :)
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: vvucic on June 21, 2007, 03:54:12 pm
Yes, great.  if you will come one day to Belgrade I will show you museums of our soccer teams and I will show you the places where hundreds of thousands of people come.  They have also interesting graffiti sprayed on the walls such as:
It is hard to be crazy. Competition is strong.
lol

veki
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 03:56:38 pm


I have heard that the Partizan Belgrade fans are really hardcore fans.
A lot of fireworks in the stands and in the stadium. That must be a terrific atmosphere to be in and watch a game.
I heard that the rivalry between Red Star Belgrade and Partizan is really hardcore match.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: tomh38 on June 21, 2007, 04:02:24 pm
I would like you to list some of the great US soccer players.

...

Never mind.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: vvucic on June 21, 2007, 04:07:04 pm
hello,

Ah yes, that is so intensive rivalry.  For example, there is joke:
What Partizan fan will do after Partizan shoot the third goal to Red Star?
Answer: He should turn off his Play Station.

lol

veki
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 04:07:38 pm

Sure, I can list some of the great U.S soccer players as well.

Alexi Lalas, Brad Friedel, Cobi Jones, Carlos Bocanegra etc.
Probably the best ever female player comes from the U.S. Mia Hamm :)
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 21, 2007, 04:34:33 pm
Well, I am Argentine, soccer is the way to comunicate between ourselves, and heaven is a long green grass for us :)

I am a Club Atletico Independiente de Avellaneda fan. You should know, we won 16 international championships (1 less than Milan and Boca Juniors), including the Intercontinental Cup, three times  :).
My favourite players are those who dont run too much, but have a clear idea about tactics, team play and passing. The defenders have all my respects. Tha all time leader on this is Ricardo Bochini, an argentinian player from the 80's, by far. Here is my list:

Diego Maradona (of course, we call him D10S)
2. Ricardo Bochini (I already talk about him, he is the greatest, but Maradona is over every scale).
3. Michelle Platini.
4. Zinedine Zidane.
5. Juan Roman Riquelme.
6. Roberto Ayala.
7. Romario.
8. Fernando Redondo.
9. Enzo Francescoli.
10. Claudio Cannigia.
11. Carlos Tevez.

Hmm, too many argentinians on this list, but I could write for ever, I like Xavi too, Sergio Aguero, Rio Ferdinand, Paolo Maldini, Javier Zanetti, Walter Samuel, Gabriel Milito, Juninho Pernambucano (I saw him on the court, against Argentina in Buenos Aires, I didnt see a rival play better ever). I am a hughe fan... I can talk about this for ever...
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 07:53:36 pm


rbistolfi, nice to see someone interested in soccer as well. :)

I add to my lists such players as you mentioned. Riquelme, Francescoli, Ayala. I'm not a big fan of Brazilians, I much rather see Argentinians play since I consider them to be better players. :)

I want to add Pablo Aimar to my list since I recognize him together with Riquelme as my favorite playmakers.
The Top 10 players is a bit too short, it should be Top 100  ::)

Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 21, 2007, 07:57:54 pm

A small addition to my previous post.

Anyone know what made Gaetano Scirea a special player?

He did not receive a single yellow or red card during his whole carrier  ::)
That is respect. :) Nothing but a genius player without comparison in my eyes.
Not a single defender can match those statistics that Scirea have done in my opinion.

He played 552 games for Juventus. I have to see how many games he played for Atalanta where he started. He also played quite a few games for the Italian national team.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: blurymind on June 22, 2007, 03:08:24 am
hmm,maybe the most popular bulgarian players are Berbatov and Stoichkov(who is now a really bad trainer) :P

My brother is more than me into soccer.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 22, 2007, 10:24:50 am
Stoichkov was great. Brazilians players are good, we cant said the opposite. Romario is my favourite, now, I think Kaka is the better playmaker. I find Ronaldinho, Messi and other young players too much selfish. I remember a match playing Aimar and Riquelme together, for Argentina sub-20, Aimar scored after a lot of passing between Riquelme and himself, we call that kind of passing "walls". The ideal player for Argentinians are those who can pass the ball just with one touch.
btw, That is a great list, DrGrov, I find Italian defenders the best of the world...
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on June 22, 2007, 02:42:18 pm
Call me a troglodyte, but I never really understood the appeal of organized sports, including 'soccer'.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 22, 2007, 02:58:25 pm
Call me a troglodyte, but I never really understood the appeal of organized sports, including 'soccer'.

I never will call you that  ;). Well, I guess I have two answers to that. First, I have no choices. You have two years old and your father puts a ball in your foot...soccer is the way we have to makes friends, and finally get introduced in to the language, comunication, and the more complex things on life, as honor, rigth and wrong, 2nd grade equations, etc. :D
Second, there is an intellectual aproach, you can see any match as a chess one, The goalkeeper is the king...
I find very interesting this: a team is well structured, the tactics are working and there is no room for freedom, the match will go on as a logical idea developed in to time. But individual technic can introduce some kind of chaos, and the equilibrium is broken... as a musical piece, things start to move, from E7 to Amaj7, for example, and sometimes a familiar but never listened sound appears.
Goooooooooal!  ;D

Edit: I not a big deal, you are probably rigth, but does everything need to have sense? May be is just fun.
There is a third approach: In the modern life our moral and ethics push away from adventures and risks. The modern life structure has order and safety as a goal. Sports are a version of ancient wars. Almost the last place where something amazing, unexpected, wonderful can be done by a true hero...
Nhaaaa... this is blabla, as Borges said, growed people running for a ball...
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on June 22, 2007, 03:14:59 pm
I dunno.

I guess football is kind of mundane for me. The context is what matters. For an abstract strategy game like Gomoku or Tafl, the players may imagine fighting samurais or Swedes vs. Russians, even though both of those games physically consist of a board with little pebbles on it.

The same goes for computer games. At the surface, Rogue-like games are simple 2d character grids with a little basic arithmetic and random numbers behind them. But because I imagine they concern Elves and Trolls, I think they're kool.

Kicking balls isn't as interesting to me. Because Orcs don't have gonads...

Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 22, 2007, 03:28:08 pm
well, I didnt say soccer is a must for everybody. But there is a strong reason for people who likes it.
Context is important, but I can imagine a lot beyond the context, and that is because there is a structure beyond the context. What I said is more than my own idea about it, is -also- one of the many meanings of 'soccer', or -if you like- one of the multiples existence modes of soccer. Always a subject needs to put something...if not, Monalissa would be just 2 pounds of paint, and the Odyssey a lot of paper and ink.

ps: Only us can make a metaphisyc topic from this... :)

Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on June 22, 2007, 03:47:24 pm
Indeed.

The Odyssey stems largely from a rich oral tradition and everyone loves the Odyssey because it's about a Greek MacGyver who appears to be vaguely based on Rama Raj.

[Archery contest, banishment, marital fidelity...think about it...]
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 22, 2007, 03:54:14 pm
Thanks rbistolfi if you liked my list. :) I liked your list as well, you had a really good mix between great players. Both defenders, midfielders and attackers. :)  I thought now it's time to announce my dream line-up with players.

The line-up would be a 4-2-3-1 formation with the following players:

1.   Left back: Gianluca Zambrotta
2.   Centre back: Walter Samuel
3.   Right back: Fabio Cannavaro
4.   Left midfielder: Pavel Nedved
5.   Defensive midfielder: Esteban Cambiasso
6.   Right midfielder: Steven Gerrard
7.   Offensive midfielder: Juan Roman Riquelme
8.   Offensive midfielder: Pablo Aimar
9.   Striker: Alessandro Del Piero
10. Striker: Vincenzo Iaquinta

Hope you like that list, there are a lot of former and current Juventus players on that list  ::)

I must say that Walter Samuel is very unappreciated, he is not recognized enough when talking about the best centre backs in the world. When he was playing for A.S Roma in Serie A he was nicknamed "Il Gladiatore", The Gladiator. :)
It would be a dream to watch Riquelme and Aimar together at Juventus, hopefully at least one of them will join this summer. :)
Juventus is chasing Riquelme from Villareal, hopefully he can join the "Old Lady" :)
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 22, 2007, 04:19:18 pm
Indeed.

The Odyssey stems largely from a rich oral tradition and everyone loves the Odyssey because it's about a Greek MacGyver who appears to be vaguely based on Rama Raj.

[Archery contest, banishment, marital fidelity...think about it...]

LOL That is an accurated description  ;D. Indeed, oral traditions are the base of our more ancient books, and they seems to reappear all over the indoeuropean region. I really like Robert Graves research about this. But I think there is no one who can find the relation between our most old tales and the ones in orient. I think the two worlds are too much for one person. I wish we could travel in time, because there is not too much evidence about this things.

Hey DrGrov, back to soccer!  :D
Nice team, it could beat almost everyone!

You missed the goalkeeper,

1. Casillas

2. Ayala
3. Samuel
4. Roberto Carlos
5. Zanetti

6. Redondo
7. Xavi

8. Riquelme
9. Van Bassten
10. Del Piero

11. Batistuta

Quote
Juventus is chasing Riquelme from Villareal, hopefully he can join the "Old Lady"

He played for Boca Juniors and won the Libertadores Cup (the local "UEFA CL") just two days ago. He played awsome, with 8 goals (three on the finals) and several assists. A great teamplay and he take cares of the ball as always, using his body to protect the ball. I think Riquelme could be great for Juventus, he is perfect for the calcio, he just needs some fast players on the sides.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on June 22, 2007, 04:23:21 pm
Indeed.

The Odyssey stems largely from a rich oral tradition and everyone loves the Odyssey because it's about a Greek MacGyver who appears to be vaguely based on Rama Raj.

[Archery contest, banishment, marital fidelity...think about it...]

LOL That is an accurated description  ;D. Indeed, oral traditions are the base of our more ancient books, and they seems to reappear all over the indoeuropean region. I really like Robert Graves research. But I think there is no one who can find the relation between our most old tales and the ones in orient. I think the two worlds are too much for one person. I wish we could travel in time, because there is not too much evidence about this things.

There's probably research on it somewhere.

'Men' are said to be descendants of Manu...
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 22, 2007, 04:30:48 pm


Oh darn it, that's true. I forgot the goalkeeper.  ;D

Well, the goalkeeper would definitely be Gianluigi Buffon. :)
I like your team, rbistolfi :)

If I needed to change my team now and put some former players in the line-up I would definitely have Gabriel Batistuta with the team and skip Vincenzo Iaquinta. Batistuta is a all-around striker with a wonderful right foot. :)
I still remember the goal he scored for Fiorentina against Man Utd at Old Trafford.
He scored from almost 35 meters and didn't even run against the ball when he scored. It was a dead ball he shot and scored. :)

If I need to change other players from old players I would definitely add Gaetano Scirea and Antonio Cabrini. My favorite defenders of all time together with Samuel, Cannavaro, Montero and a few other ones as well.

Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 22, 2007, 04:39:39 pm
Quote
There's probably research on it somewhere.

'Men' are said to be descendants of Manu...

Rigth... The language is probably the best approach, seems to be several things in common...

Quote
Batistuta is a all-around striker with a wonderful right foot.

I remember once, playing for Argentina, he made a shot from a free kick, and the ball hit a defense from the other team in the leg with the ball, he needed to be replaced  :D :D

I like Montero, Uruguay gave good players... I like the Holland style, with the wings, Van Persey and Christiano Ronaldo are good wingmans.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on June 22, 2007, 04:47:44 pm
Quote
There's probably research on it somewhere.

'Men' are said to be descendants of Manu...

Rigth... The language is probably the best approach, seems to be several things in common...

Even the old stories are transparently similar. The folk of the Vedic age thousands of years ago called the bier the 'eight-legged horse' because four men use it to carry the dead away.

(http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/odin745.jpg)

If it be a coincidence, it's an incredible one.

Sorry I'm so ignorant about football though. :(
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 22, 2007, 05:45:40 pm
That is a nice one. I think what we call western and eastern in anthropoligical sense, is just because of lazy people. Several migrations from east to west happened, and there is no way to split the "true" Europe from Asia, if you look deeply.
One more step, I traveled to northern Argentina, Bolivia and Peru many years ago. The spring-summer rituals are still used there. They make a hole in the ground, to leave the "evils" free (ovious christian sincretism) and they come into the surface to give us the vital force. Just like the Persephone and Demeter myth, the same structure. I dont know if it is coincidence neither, but a connection is hard to probe, that is true also, I am affraid.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: gacl on June 23, 2007, 11:08:30 pm
"I think Kaka is the better playmaker."

Hey, that's my avatar!

Football rules. No other sport exists as far as i'm concerned. The US and Mexico will play this Sunday. Any predictions? I say Mexico loses 3 to 1. They should have never fired LaVolpe.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 24, 2007, 10:14:51 am
Hey, I agree about LaVolpe. That is a hard game, I think US is better than Mexico now, but Mexicans hates to lose with them...
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: gacl on June 24, 2007, 09:06:48 pm
Heh, Mexico lost 2 to 1. Good thing i didn't bet. Now the cup in Venezuela is coming up. . . i'm going to have to quit my job.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 25, 2007, 09:06:18 am
jeje, this thursday Argentina - USA, nice match
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on June 26, 2007, 09:04:53 pm
There is a third approach: In the modern life our moral and ethics push away from adventures and risks. The modern life structure has order and safety as a goal. Sports are a version of ancient wars. Almost the last place where something amazing, unexpected, wonderful can be done by a true hero...
Nhaaaa... this is blabla, as Borges said, growed people running for a ball...

Well, the Highland Games are certainly entertaining. Tossing hammers appeals to me more. Maybe it's from playing Super Mario Brothers.

Unfortunately, in some cases, football fanaticism has become too much like real war. :(
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 27, 2007, 08:35:05 am
Quote
Unfortunately, in some cases, football fanaticism has become too much like real war.

Indeed. Sadly this is very true on my country. I saw it on internationals news media, so may be you know one person died the past monday on a soccer match, because of a figth between "fans". Happened just a few streets from my house  :(.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 27, 2007, 01:07:04 pm


I agree with you guys, it's really a shame when football has become almost like war.

I love football when it's at its purest form. The great players of the world when they give that little extra to give the fans and audience something to remember for life. Especially I remember the great Maradona when he scored against England in the World Cup of '86. He walked through the whole English defence like they were just looking around.  ::)  Man, that was something out of this world.

rbistolfi, I have to ask you. Have you seen Riquelme now playing when he was on loan with Boca Juniors?
Did he play great? What was your opinion? I really like to hear since I dream that he will sign for Juventus.
How is the rivalry between Boca Juniors and River Plate? I hear that it's the biggest rivalry game in South America?
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: rbistolfi on June 27, 2007, 04:59:01 pm
Hi Dr! Roman played in great form this semester, he leaded Boca Juniors to the Libertadores Cup championship (the UEFA CL latinamerican equivalent) and the second place in the local tournament. He scored 8 goals at the cup in 12 games, including 3 in the finals (one in the first game at La Boca, and two in Brazil, at the Gremio stadium). He scored a lot, and he was a great playmaker, giving several assists, and keeping the ball when needed as well as he can (he is great using his body to protect the ball). Another plus, Boca Juniors didnt play a good defense this semester, and he was under the score several times. Roman leaded the team to get back on the game several times. So, IMO, Roman was the world player of the semester. He is back on the National Team now, and he will play against USA tomorrow.
Just one con: He is really a family guy, and needs to "feel good" to play well. He has a lot of brothers (6 I think), they were really poor family in the past, so, they are the most important to him, even that any soccer match or team. He was not a happy kid, and sometimes he just dont feel like he wants, and that affect his playing.
About Boca-River, is just the event of the year here. Always a full stadium, with a lot of flags and color. The supporters here make songs to the team, and compite for who is louder, all the game. Usually there is a flag as big is possible. The winner will be in a party for a month. The looser avoid to go out as much as he can, just to not meet the oposite supporter. Is really fun.
But sometimes, there is violence involved, and there is no fun anymore. 
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: gacl on June 28, 2007, 07:12:57 am
Riquelme is a great shooter with a standing ball. . . And especially with a barrier. *wink*
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: M0E-lnx on June 28, 2007, 08:00:05 am
Mexico just beat Brazil in the American Cup...
Let's see how far they get.
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on June 28, 2007, 02:01:45 pm


Thank you rbistolfi for your article on Riquelme. :)
I appreciate it :)
Title: Re: How about soccer within the VL community?
Post by: DrGrov on August 13, 2007, 01:04:12 pm


Only approximately 12 days until the start of Italian Serie A.
Really looking forward to see Juventus back where they belong. :)