VectorLinux

Cooking up the Treats => Distro development => Topic started by: vector on July 26, 2007, 12:18:15 am

Title: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: vector on July 26, 2007, 12:18:15 am
I know you haven't heard much from me as of late.  I have been really contemplating the state of things and where we go from here. I would consider the 5.x releases a resounding success as many with 5.1 won't move to 5.8 for fear of loosing a beautiful thing. Linux and time marches on and so must we. Slackware just spit out 12  which is a challenge as there is a whole new tool chain as well as the X system. With the limited manpower we have I have decided to release Vector more often with incremental changes vs less often with a huge changelog. This is easier on the manpower we have plus bug fixing should be minimal. We will release shortly the first rc of version 5.8.6 which updates xorg from 6.9 to 7.2 and kde from 3.5.6 to 3.5.7 in soho and the same xorg plus latest xfce4 for standard. Next inline will be 5.9.x which will be the move to new tool chain and the beginning of Vector 6.0. Vector 6.0 will have all the gui tools that people and reviewers have asked for at least that is the goal. Please comment ask questions volunteer to do stuff we have lots to do if we want to knock the world on its ass with 6.0................. ;D.............cheers..........vec
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Joe1962 on July 26, 2007, 04:02:01 am
A quick comment, probably more later... ;)

If we are going for a faster release cycle, we will really need to get the distro-upgrade working 100%, at least within major version numbers. However, I'm not sure that might be at all possible with the toolchain moving to gcc-4.x and xorg going modular. With everything getting recompiled, perhaps it's time for a clean break (and new base repo) and call it 6.0? Then add the GUI tools along the way? I know it's not what we hoped, but now I think Slack 12 is such a big leap forward that it might merit a VL6. Jumping now might allow upgrade compatibility for a while to come within the 6.x line.

Anyway, just a thought to hash out... ;D

PS: Perhaps a quick 5.9 upgrade with just the xorg is possible?
EDIT: with the xfce and kde upgrades too, of course...
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: The Headacher on July 26, 2007, 06:08:07 am
Why upgrade just xorg and the desktop environment? The VL 5.8 series is close to perfect IMO, and there's still lots of life in it left. But If this is the road to VL 6 and if VL 6 is going to be based on Slack 12 should we not start be building on Slack 12?

Can't we just think of vl 5.8 as a fine finished product and start with VL 6? In the meantime we can just continue using our normal 5.8 installs without having a new vector-5.8.6 repo or weird problems of packages working on 5.8 but not on 5.8.6 or the other way around.

Oh well, I suppose I might be impatient for the slack 12 goodiness in that fine VL sauce ;D.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on July 26, 2007, 12:13:14 pm
Quote from: The Headacher
Can't we just think of vl 5.8 as a fine finished product and start with VL 6? In the meantime we can just continue using our normal 5.8 installs without having a new vector-5.8.6 repo or weird problems of packages working on 5.8 but not on 5.8.6 or the other way around.

Oh well, I suppose I might be impatient for the slack 12 goodiness in that fine VL sauce

I second that.
The new Slackware 12 packages solve practically all the problems that we were having in the GTK/Xorg/Kernel debate, so why not get started with the Slack12 based VL6.0 now?

Anyway, on the VL 6.0 topic, whats the status on more VL specific stuff like VL-hot and the new VASM? HAL is included by default in Slackware 12, but its not as old-hardware-friendly as VL-hot is...so any idea about what VL6 will have?

What about laying out other objectives for areas like:

- Repo layout and maintenance (guidelines about what to do with major package upgrades - should they even exist.)
- Packaging and packaging standards (maybe a more up-to-date how-to with info on scripting would be cool and of course Moe's awesome package builder.)
- Wireless networking integration (I like Wifi-radar, but it would be cool to modify it/create something new to fit into VL seamlessly, in a similar way that NetworkManager does for Ubuntu/Suse/RHEL, but without the bloat and resource hogging).
- Power management tools (this includes suspend support)
- Extra drivers (there are lots of drivers and firmware, especially for wireless cards that can be added to the default kernel package, or included as separate packages)
- ISO size limit (1 CD policy or...?)
- Attention to conflicting Slackware packages (eg: libiconv)
- **insert your ideas here**

Also whats the take on some more radical things like Initng (http://www.initng.org/)?  :)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Toe on July 26, 2007, 05:01:45 pm
If we are going for a faster release cycle, we will really need to get the distro-upgrade working 100%
You need to get it working even without a faster release cycle. ;)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Lyn on July 27, 2007, 01:43:09 am
Certainly I think a one CD size iso should be the aim for the standard version, maybe with a more modular approach with the soho edition being either on a second cd to install from or alternatively a dvd image.  That way you could have a base install - which would be standard, and "packs" containting say KDE and Openoffice and the other extras for Soho, a games "pack" which could be an additional disk with the extra games, etc..... and with the option of rolling them all into one larger dvd?
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: DrGrov on July 27, 2007, 02:25:18 pm


I really like the ideas that have been brought forward. It seems like Vector is growing by each day, more and more users are becoming familiar with Vector and wanting to try it out. The word spreads fast. :)
Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Freeman on July 30, 2007, 04:35:57 am
If it was just me, I wouldn't spend time on separate versions of VL to finally become VL 6.0. If manpower is an issue, and it is, then working on these semi-versions takes time. And I'm afraid the linuxworld moves to fast for that idea. Our own vectorlinux users, where allready searching for solutions to run the latest and greatest Xorg for their Beryl needs and other stuff.

So, I would like to suggest the following to be done in this order:

1  Immediately start on building VL6.0 (as the Headacher suggested) RC1, RC2, GOLD
2. The repositories need to be cleaned.
    As suggested by Joe1962, a tottally new clean repo should be build, with the soulpurpose to serve VL 6.0. From here on, we could start testing and doubletesting the newly built packages, if it would work for a complete distro-upgrade.
3. Leave the older repo's so the other users can still use them if they needed to.

This is just my own opinion. Feel free to correct me where I maybe gone wrong.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kidd on July 30, 2007, 05:19:52 am
There's a recent post about KDE packages, and given KDE 4 is on the way, it would be cool to synchronize the release of KDE4 with a VL release (maybe a 5.9.x?).

I'm not a KDE user myself, but I'm sure it would be a killer feature and many people would try VL if there's a release when KDE4 is still 'hot'.

KDE4 is not intended to be used in old hardware , so maybe it goes against VL direction.  What do you think?

Just my 0.02$

http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.0_Release_Roadmap#Milestone:_KDE_4.0_Released
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Joe1962 on July 30, 2007, 05:22:56 am
There's a recent post about KDE packages, and given KDE 4 is on the way, it would be cool to synchronize the release of KDE4 with a VL release (maybe a 5.9.x?).
Don't you think we should at least wait for 4.0.2? AFAICT, this is a very major rewrite of KDE, bound to be buggy at first.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: carsten on July 30, 2007, 06:12:28 am
There's a recent post about KDE packages, and given KDE 4 is on the way, it would be cool to synchronize the release of KDE4 with a VL release (maybe a 5.9.x?).
Don't you think we should at least wait for 4.0.2? AFAICT, this is a very major rewrite of KDE, bound to be buggy at first.

It will never be finished, so there is no need to wait. So Full speed ahead and s*** on the torpedos  ;D
If somebody wants safety he should try Debian
Carsten
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Joe1962 on July 30, 2007, 06:47:49 am
It would go against the VL philosophy:
Quote from: VL website
Speed, performance, stability -- these are attributes that set VectorLinux apart in the crowded field of Linux distributions.

Which is why we are more cutting edge than bleeding edge. Unless we change the motto... ;D
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: wcs on July 30, 2007, 08:22:45 am
As for standard, Xfce 4.4.2 should be released soon and will apparently fix some nasty bugs.
http://www.nabble.com/Xfce-4.4.2---t3961738.html (http://www.nabble.com/Xfce-4.4.2---t3961738.html)

So, I suppose it should be included on the 5.8.6 release.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: incognu on July 30, 2007, 11:51:07 am
There's a recent post about KDE packages, and given KDE 4 is on the way, it would be cool to synchronize the release of KDE4 with a VL release (maybe a 5.9.x?).
Don't you think we should at least wait for 4.0.2? AFAICT, this is a very major rewrite of KDE, bound to be buggy at first.

I agree with Joe1962. 

Looks like Plasma involves some major changes;  probably best to let the first set of bugs get shaken out and the rough edges smoothed. 

My 2 coconut shards.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Joe1962 on July 30, 2007, 12:05:19 pm
As for standard, Xfce 4.4.2 should be released soon and will apparently fix some nasty bugs.
Great, now if only vec7 can manage to build it without hal... ::)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: mithion on July 31, 2007, 09:28:27 am
My personal experience with Xorg 7.x hasn't been good.  I don't know how many times I've had to mess around with it to make it work just right on other distros.  I have read a little bit about xorg 7.3 and that seems very promissing.  So IMHO, I would wait till 7.3 comes out and evaluate how functional and stable it is.  If it is as grand as it is promised, I would impletent that one in VL 6.0.  In the meantime, people who require a super fast stable system to do high computing like large scale simulation can look at VL as great OS to use.  These people don't care too much about advanced graphics.  And xorg 7.x has not been very nice to users if you ask me. 
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on July 31, 2007, 11:05:01 am
Even though it would be cool to roll out VL6 now (thats how I felt at first), I guess having a continuation of the 5.x series is fine too.
That will give time to work on developing (and hardening) some of the new goodies for VL 6 like VASM2 and the installer...
Who knows, maybe Slackware 12 also gets a revision and bugfixes meanwhile :)

Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: mithion on July 31, 2007, 11:12:59 am
VASM2....... (drooling)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: uelsk8s on July 31, 2007, 11:37:43 am
If any of you would like a sneak peak at the work we are doing on the 5.8.X line you can grab an iso from here http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/Uelsk8s/old-pkgs/
they are labeled 5.8.2-SOHO now but who knows what they will end up being called, more than likely 5.8.6
the iso's have been updated daily or at most every other day so if your looking for something permanent this probly isnt it.
also this is a secret so dont tell anyone   ;)
Thanks,
Uelsk8s
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: GrannyGeek on July 31, 2007, 03:19:04 pm
Don't you think we should at least wait for 4.0.2? AFAICT, this is a very major rewrite of KDE, bound to be buggy at first.

I agree.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: GrannyGeek on July 31, 2007, 03:31:50 pm
I guess I should say that I'm finding 5.8 Standard to be great and am not salivating for something newer--yet. The time will come when programs that are important to me (Scribus, Inkscape, Gimp) may require things that aren't in Standard and at that time I'll be looking for an updated VectorLinux. But right now, I can't imagine anything better than 5.8 Standard with XFce 4.4 (no-hal).

I will, of course, test betas and Release Candidates of a new VL on my 1.3 GHz testbed desktop.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on July 31, 2007, 04:00:17 pm
On the subject of wireless networking, wpa_supplicant has a feature called "roaming" which basically means it scans for networks and connects to them if they are inserted in the wpa_supplicant.conf profile:

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=17199

Seems like a nice enough alternative to NetworkManager, seeing as it doesn't require any other daemons, it can handle open and WEP connections too, and is desktop-environment agnostic! (yay, no need to have tons of GNOME libraries installed!).
Also, it assumes control over the ifconfig command for the interfaces it it assigned to, so it takes care of connections by itself (this is especially nice for those recovering from a suspended session on a laptop for example - no need to bring the network interface down and manually remove and reinsert the card's kernel module).

Maybe a VL-specific wireless app is something to consider - a frontend to wpa_supplicant that can control the configuration?

I'm just kind of tired of seeing other projects pop up that conflict with VL's philosophy or are simply not designed to be used on distros other than Ubuntu (http://wicd.sourceforge.net/)  ::)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: exeterdad on August 01, 2007, 05:13:45 am
Since Slackware (12) ships with binutils-2.17.50.0.17 and glibc-2.5 I'd like us to take advantage of the newly implemented DT_GNU_HASH.  If packages were built with --hash-style=gnu in the LDFLAGS we will achieve 50% dynamic linking improvement. 

Fedora, Ubuntu Feisty, Frugalware, and many other distros are using it.  In fact they have rebuilt all or most packages with it. I think LDFLAGS should be set using the new hash style like how our CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS are set now, assure all future packages take advantage of this.

We are known to have a super fast loading KDE.  But having KDE load 50% faster even still?  Nice.

Some links:

When DT_GNU_HASH was a patch:
http://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2006-06/msg00418.html

Fedora discussion.  Talking about getting ready for mass rebuild.  There's a short and easy to understand explanation about --hash-style=gnu
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-maintainers/2006-July/msg00158.html

Release announcement of binutils-2.17.50.0.17 with tree prepatched with DT_GNU_HASH.
http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2007-06/msg00631.html

Just a thought  :)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: caitlyn on August 03, 2007, 09:30:49 am
On the subject of wireless networking, wpa_supplicant has a feature called "roaming" which basically means it scans for networks and connects to them if they are inserted in the wpa_supplicant.conf profile:

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=17199

Seems like a nice enough alternative to NetworkManager, seeing as it doesn't require any other daemons, it can handle open and WEP connections too, and is desktop-environment agnostic! (yay, no need to have tons of GNOME libraries installed!).
Also, it assumes control over the ifconfig command for the interfaces it it assigned to, so it takes care of connections by itself (this is especially nice for those recovering from a suspended session on a laptop for example - no need to bring the network interface down and manually remove and reinsert the card's kernel module).

Maybe a VL-specific wireless app is something to consider - a frontend to wpa_supplicant that can control the configuration?

I'm just kind of tired of seeing other projects pop up that conflict with VL's philosophy or are simply not designed to be used on distros other than Ubuntu (http://wicd.sourceforge.net/)  ::)

I agree with all of this.  I would point out, though, that sometimes I can connect and get an IP address from a weak connection with Network Manager when Wifi-Radar just won't do it.  I don't know why that is but it's been my experience.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: DrCR on August 04, 2007, 11:23:20 pm
Features more oriented to laptops would be nice. I'd like to run Vector natively on my Santa Rosa MacBookPro. (Right now still bogged down with gpt hybrid though this (http://wiki.onmac.net/index.php/Triple_Boot_via_BootCamp) helped. Thinking gpt, osx, storage, winos, plus any linux stuff efi-only non-mbr synced).


I would consider the 5.x releases a resounding success as many with 5.1 won't move to 5.8 for fear of loosing a beautiful thing.

That's me lol. I'm still using 5.1.1SOHO as my primary OS on my desktop.  8) :D

DrCR

_________________
A5N8X, 3500+ single-core Manchester, 2x512MB Corsair XMS, MSI 7600GT
S-12 430W, HR-05, Scythe Mime, VF900 modded with Scythe 80x25mm. Dual D12SL-12 Yate Loons
WD1200JB, WD3200JB, HD501LJ
Dual,independant WinXP installs via Grub hiding (http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/installation/66476-howto-multiple-independent-winxp-installs-same-harddrive-via-grub.html), VectorLinux 5.1.1SOHO
------
MacBook Pro Santa Rosa, 2.2GHz,  WD Scorpio 250GB WD2500BEVS, Pending Tuxized Apple Logo Mod
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: mithion on August 06, 2007, 09:10:25 am
One thing that popped in my mind this morning.  Since VL is suppose to be tailored for workstation usage, full 64bit support would be awesome for 6.0.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: caitlyn on August 06, 2007, 09:39:14 am
I would consider the 5.x releases a resounding success as many with 5.1 won't move to 5.8 for fear of loosing a beautiful thing.

That's me lol. I'm still using 5.1.1SOHO as my primary OS on my desktop.  8) :D

5.1 was a very good release.  5.8 is much better and the SOHO release in particular was nearly flawless.  I have very high expectations for 5.8.6 and 6.0.  The amount of additional software in the repositories for 5.8 is reason enough to upgrade.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: DrCR on August 07, 2007, 05:28:57 pm
The amount of additional software in the repositories for 5.8 is reason enough to upgrade.
Precisely, I might not be having this problem (http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3857.0) if I was running 5.8SOHO. I also appreciate the growing attention to our repo's quality in recent times. I'd say a large part of it is I have 5.1.1SOHO just the way I like it and haven't taking the time to configure 5.8SOHO for my primary (it already resides on another partition).

Nothing special really. I would like to put in a plug for nuvola in future VLs though.  ;D
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/drcr1/linux_related/th_VL51.1SOHO_mydesktop.png) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/drcr1/linux_related/VL51.1SOHO_mydesktop.png)

I'm really excited about the future releases to come too. Vector simply fits what I'm looking for in the Linux world. Well, the *nix world really. I'm still liking my 5.1.1SOHO experience over OS 10.4.10. Keep up the good work!  :)

Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: The Headacher on August 12, 2007, 05:05:04 am
The first dependency issue caused by 5.8.6 (or by misplacing a package built on it) is a fact: http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3878.msg25413#msg25413

Now, I'd like to know just a few things:

-  I thought 5.8.6 SOHO wasn't going to update anything except xorg / kde! Now, are there any other programs that have been updated?

-  The package for 5.8.6 should've NEVER made it to the repo. It should be somewhere in a /veclinux-5.8.6-SOHO/packages/ (or something similar) directory, but that doesn't exist?? You repo guys aren't just putting the 5.8.6 packages inside the 5.8 SOHO or even the 5.8 standard repo's now are you? This way we could loose the original packages that were in there and have them be replaced by faulty ones (like this one).

- Why on earth wasn't this package built on a clean install of standard so everybody can enjoy it?
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on August 12, 2007, 06:36:36 am
The first dependency issue caused by 5.8.6 (or by misplacing a package built on it) is a fact: http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3878.msg25413#msg25413

Now, I'd like to know just a few things:

-  I thought 5.8.6 SOHO wasn't going to update anything except xorg / kde! Now, are there any other programs that have been updated?

-  The package for 5.8.6 should've NEVER made it to the repo. It should be somewhere in a /veclinux-5.8.6-SOHO/packages/ (or something similar) directory, but that doesn't exist?? You repo guys aren't just putting the 5.8.6 packages inside the 5.8 SOHO or even the 5.8 standard repo's now are you? This way we could loose the original packages that were in there and have them be replaced by faulty ones (like this one).

- Why on earth wasn't this package built on a clean install of standard so everybody can enjoy it?

Indeed. It also appears that the package was added directly to patches/ without having been through the testing repo first >:(
After looking at the thread where lagagnon and nightflier announce tested packages, the latest updated pidgin package moved to patches was 2.0.1, so 2.1.0 was not added according to procedure...

EDIT:

Since VL 5.8.6 is going ahead, there should already be a dedicated repository for it, so that this kind of thing does not repeat itself.
Looks like for VL 6 some strict rules need to be made for repository maintenance/branching...
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: caitlyn on August 12, 2007, 10:34:54 am
-  The package for 5.8.6 should've NEVER made it to the repo. It should be somewhere in a /veclinux-5.8.6-SOHO/packages/ (or something similar) directory, but that doesn't exist?? You repo guys aren't just putting the 5.8.6 packages inside the 5.8 SOHO or even the 5.8 standard repo's now are you? This way we could loose the original packages that were in there and have them be replaced by faulty ones (like this one).

- Why on earth wasn't this package built on a clean install of standard so everybody can enjoy it?
iu
I made precisely the same argument on the Packager's Board and was told that 5.8.6 was built mostly out of packages already in the 5.8 repository.  I was told that separate repositories weren't necessary.

The fact is that a lot of packages needed to be rebuilt to accommodate the new file structure used by X.org 7.x and Slackware 12.  Unless each and every one of these packages was tested against 5.8 Standard and SOHO the result we are seeing was inevitable.  This weekend I rebuilt two 5.8 font packages that were still in testing but I also tested the rebuilt versions against clean 5.8 builds.  I have several more packages I built that should get this treatment rather than depending on the symlinks for /usr/X11R6 that have been added to 5.8.6.

There is another issue:  Packagers now need THREE clean installs of VL in addition to their working/production updated VL install in order to do proper testing against 5.8 Standard, 5.8 SOHO, and 5.8.6 SOHO.  Also remember that 5.8.6 Standard is on the way.

Since 5.8.6 is still beta it's not too late for the developers and repository maintainers to change their minds and start new repositories and issue a new /etc/slapt-get/slapt-getrc file for VL 5.8.6 SOHO RC2.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on August 12, 2007, 10:53:21 am
Quote from: caitlyn
I was told that separate repositories weren't necessary.

Yes, but only as long as all packages are built on VL 5.8 Standard.

Anything else will require a new repo...  :-\
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: caitlyn on August 12, 2007, 01:44:23 pm
It's not just the Pidgin packages that Headacher referred to.  We've seen several others, haven't we?  Isn't this how a broken abiword-plugins package ended up in the repository?  (See: http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3699.0]]http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3699.0 (http://))  Isn't this why you (eauster) have been fixing a broken dillo package?
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on August 12, 2007, 03:07:42 pm
Well, the big problem in this particular case is that someone (ie: not me) has been adding packages directly into the main repositories without passing them through testing first  >:(

Had they been announced/tested according to the repo maintenance rules layed out by JohnB316 all these cases would have been caught right from the start...
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: blurymind on August 17, 2007, 11:09:08 am
well, i will wait for the full slack12 upgrade to come to vector and then upgrade myslef.  ::)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Dweeberkitty on August 17, 2007, 11:50:39 am
well, i will wait for the full slack12 upgrade to come to vector and then upgrade myslef.  ::)
By then Slack 13 will probably be out.  ;)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: rbistolfi on August 17, 2007, 12:07:11 pm
I recently installed vl 5.8 std on an old box with a small hd. In the install process I choosed to not install x, to save the space of xfce, since it cant run on 64mb of ram. The owner of the machine still wants a desktop so I installed X and JWM with slapt-get, with no much hopeness. The X init scripts depends on xfce and the x server is too much for me to configure so I made a work around just upgrading the hd. I just wanted to share the experience  :) I am already reading the LFS book and some inet docs to understand the problem more deeply. I think there is an option in vasm to change the default desktop, may be is a way to fix this.
May be a separated option for X and the desktops can be done to make the installer more flexible. I see the x init files are now in the x11 package and needs to be hacked for the desired desktop, so looks like this has not a quick solution. I dont know if this can be done in any way, and if it is useful or desirable to change the way it works now.
Please note this is not a request, I just want to share the experience and bring the subject in to the consideration of the forum ;)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: blurymind on August 18, 2007, 04:58:16 am
well, i will wait for the full slack12 upgrade to come to vector and then upgrade myslef.  ::)
By then Slack 13 will probably be out.  ;)
if i only knew the tune-up secrets the vec devs had made to this baby, i'd download slack 12 and make it work as much as possible like vector. I'll even try to install it some of vector linux's utilities.  :P
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: uelsk8s on August 18, 2007, 09:08:06 am
blurymind,
you can get the VL version of slack12 here http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/Uelsk8s/VL6.0-Pseudo-0.7.iso
the installer is quite ugly and slow but the installed system is pretty good.

uelsk8s
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: blurymind on August 18, 2007, 02:31:21 pm
blurymind,
you can get the VL version of slack12 here http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/Uelsk8s/VL6.0-Pseudo-0.7.iso
the installer is quite ugly and slow but the installed system is pretty good.

uelsk8s
thank you. I am gonna test drive it tomorow at the laptop (i am still not willing to risk my main machine). what do you mean by ugly and slow? Does it have serious issues that i should be aware of? Please,pm if there are any... Its using the new gui installer? It would be nice if the future release has a gui installer,but also the option to use vl's good old non gui installer..

Also, can i be of any help by reporting bugs or building packages,or is it too early for that? ( i would like to build specially for the fully upgraded vl) :P

when i get free of work at the end of this month,i'll try my best to help out in any way possible.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: Joe1962 on August 18, 2007, 02:34:42 pm
Its using the new gui installer?
No, that's still at an early stage, though it's currently being worked on enthusiastically by several of our resident gambasians.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: blurymind on August 19, 2007, 09:42:36 am
Its using the new gui installer?
No, that's still at an early stage, though it's currently being worked on enthusiastically by several of our resident gambasians.
I recently started reading the gambas ebook that i found in eulsk8s' ftp where the pseudo vec6 is..I must say it amused me enough to get me started on something simple and nice. If i need help,i might try to pester some of the gambasians at the irc (ofcourse after asking google)  :P
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: incognu on August 31, 2007, 03:24:23 pm
There's a recent post about KDE packages, and given KDE 4 is on the way, it would be cool to synchronize the release of KDE4 with a VL release (maybe a 5.9.x?).
Don't you think we should at least wait for 4.0.2? AFAICT, this is a very major rewrite of KDE, bound to be buggy at first.

Just saw that the 4.0.0 release has been delayed:
Quote
We, The Release Team, hereby announce that we are extending the
KDE 4.0.0 schedule [1] 2 months by inserting an extra 2 Betas, as follows:

September 24: Beta3
October 22: Beta4
November 19: Total Release Freeze
November 21: RC1
December 5: RC2
December 20: 4.0.0 tagged

We feel that there are crucial elements of the release that need more
development time.  The feature freeze (less exemptions) remains in effect.

As usual, the dates are estimates and are subject to change.
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-devel&m=118856887429944&w=2

Not to be a wet blanket, but nothing I've read lately has changed my mind:  I still think we should hold off on 4 for a bit.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on August 31, 2007, 03:40:18 pm
Well, seeing the path that the VL development is taking (holding off VL 6.0 and continuing the VL 5.8 series) KDE 4 may just be mature enough by the time VL 6.0 SOHO is released.
But even then, there will most certainly still be a fair amount of bugs to be ironed out....
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: easuter on September 08, 2007, 09:16:03 am
On the subject of packages for VL 6.0, shouldn't the release tags be 1vl60 and not 1vl59? Otherwise when the final VL 6.0 goes gold, then there will probably still be packages shipped with vl59 release tags. Dunno if keeping the release tags as uniform as possible is important or not...
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: blurymind on November 06, 2007, 06:43:33 am
a nice gui to set keyboard layout. Its using gtk:
http://gnomefiles.org/app.php/gtk_Keyboard_Layout

something like that would be a nice userfriendly addition to vl6,dontcha think?  :P

also:
http://www.secretmaryo.org/index.php?page=about&sid=sid=e7f05b6d475b791794b59475cd2a79ee
a better supermario clone?
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: blurymind on November 14, 2007, 12:03:23 pm
ok, you MUST consider including this game.Its less than a mb and it pawns most other games. Its really good.Here check this trailer:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0CCkH49g0

its creator ported it to linux.The game is considered freeware.

download link:
http://www.ubuntugames.org/CaveStory?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=doukutsu-linux.tar.gz

the build is static.Should work.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: wcs on November 27, 2007, 09:26:16 pm
Quote
ok, you MUST consider including this game

I second that. Is this little game addictive, or what?
So great.

This seems to be a newer version (1.01):
http://simonparzer.kilu.de/linuxDoukutsu-1.01.tar.bz2 (http://simonparzer.kilu.de/linuxDoukutsu-1.01.tar.bz2)

(although ported by someone who's not the original creator, so far as I can tell)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: blurymind on December 01, 2007, 11:38:22 am
thanks..

I would suggest including flock,instead of firefox. Why? Because its different than firefox,while firefox is almost the same as seamonkey.Flock is based on ff and is compatable with all its plugins/extensions... but unlike firefox,it brings innovation to the browser and gives the user tons of new web2.0 features. You can write in your blog,upload photos to flickr/photobucket, chat with online buddies, save a whole website as a single jpg (web clipboard), watch/search youtube,flickr and many other  from the media bar... and many other features :o

plus it has advanced bookmarking capabilities, online/offline bookmarks,single click bookmarking (star),etc etc

one must try it to see how its different from other browsers:
http://www.flock.com

no other distro has included it by default,i believe ::)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: GrannyGeek on December 01, 2007, 08:46:26 pm
I don't think Vector should include *anything* in place of Firefox. I think anyone using Linux pretty much expects Firefox to be included. Maybe Flock could be an optional package.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: The Headacher on December 02, 2007, 01:27:43 am
Quote
I would suggest including flock,instead of firefox. Why? Because its different than firefox,while firefox is almost the same as seamonkey.
That's not a reason. "Why did you take potatoes instead of spaghetti? Because it's different than spaghetti, while spaghetti is almost the same as macaroni."
Quote
upload photos to flickr/photobucket, chat with online buddies, save a whole website as a single jpg (web clipboard), watch/search youtube,flickr and many other  from the media bar...
I can already do those things, without a media bar. except for saving the webpage as jpeg. Instead, "save as" works fine.

What is it that firefox does wrong? Why do people seem to think that one of the best known open source projects should be replaced with something much more obscure like this flock or seamonkey? I'm not saying something being well-known is a good reason to keep it around, but what about all the users that have been using firefox for years now? I have, and I think it's doing a pretty nice job.

Quote
I don't think Vector should include *anything* in place of Firefox. I think anyone using Linux pretty much expects Firefox to be included.
Agreed.

Quote
Maybe Flock could be an optional package.
Agreed, as in "in the repo's", not on disc. There's already 5 browsers (Firefox, seamonkey, opera, dillo, lynx) on there to satisfy most peoples browsing wishes. No use putting any more browsers on there, we need some room for other stuff besides browsers as well on those cd's ;).

After all this, I'd just like to say I might give flock a go if somebody packages it for the repo.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on December 02, 2007, 03:05:34 am


I really like the ideas that have been brought forward. It seems like Vector is growing by each day, more and more users are becoming familiar with Vector and wanting to try it out. The word spreads fast. :)
Thanks! :)

I Think Vector is one very nice distro.. I've used it many times since 5.1  But usually end up going back to Debian for the following reasons.  1.  A much larger Repository offers much software Vector makes me compile.  While I'm not against that My work here just will not allow me the time to chase down so many dependencies.  (For example it took 4 hours total to get a program installed on Vector the other day that I can simply apt-get install on Debian.  2. Debian allows me to upgrade even to the testing level without a complete reinstall. I have a Debian box that has been upgraded to Lenny and never had to do a complete reinstall since Debian Sarge v 3.1.  3. I Believe but of course may be wrong that the Distros that will be around in say 5 to 10 years will be those than find a way to upgrade without a complete reinstall from version to version.  Just some thoughts know this will most likely bring me some flames but understand I only want this for discussions as to the why's and why nots of getting it done. 
Though most VL users most likely stick with either XFCE or KDE.. but I must say I love the VL 5.9 Fluxbox Desktop.  With that said alot of the problems that I've encountered are because Most of Gnome files are not available on the repositories and thus must be compiled in order to install many of the Programs I use every day.

I'll keep watching and hopefully will see many improvements over the years  Keep up the good work I still think Vector Linux has alot of promise.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: rbistolfi on December 02, 2007, 04:40:37 am
I Think Vector is one very nice distro.. I've used it many times since 5.1  But usually end up going back to Debian for the following reasons.  1.  A much larger Repository offers much software Vector makes me compile.  While I'm not against that My work here just will not allow me the time to chase down so many dependencies.  (For example it took 4 hours total to get a program installed on Vector the other day that I can simply apt-get install on Debian. 

Well, there is no much to say around that, as pointed many times, VL can't compite with some other Linux resources, Ubunto could have as packagers as vl users. But, imho, the vl 5.8 repo is very good, and vl provides many libs by default so is easy to compile stuff. Of course, this not 100% true all the time and sometimes a program will not work at all. The 5.8 repo has even Gnome on it.

Quote
2. Debian allows me to upgrade even to the testing level without a complete reinstall. I have a Debian box that has been upgraded to Lenny and never had to do a complete reinstall since Debian Sarge v 3.1.  3. I Believe but of course may be wrong that the Distros that will be around in say 5 to 10 years will be those than find a way to upgrade without a complete reinstall from version to version.  Just some thoughts know this will most likely bring me some flames but understand I only want this for discussions as to the why's and why nots of getting it done. 

I understand the devs are working in the "upgrade" thing and it will be ready for 5.9. Even when I have no problem in downloading the iso and install it from scratch, I agree this could be a good feature, and could save some bandwidth for vl.

Quote
Though most VL users most likely stick with either XFCE or KDE.. but I must say I love the VL 5.9 Fluxbox Desktop.  With that said alot of the problems that I've encountered are because Most of Gnome files are not available on the repositories and thus must be compiled in order to install many of the Programs I use every day.

I love fluxbox too. There is gnome libs in the extra repo. I hope easuter could make the time to package it for 5.9, I know gnome is polemic but, as Freeman say, choice to the user!
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: wcs on December 02, 2007, 03:40:54 pm
Xfce 4.4.2 is out. I guess it should go into 5.9 standard.

It's one thing after the other, so a big thanks to those developing and packaging for 6.0.
(developers, developers, developers.... Ballmer's style)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: justin on April 08, 2008, 09:29:36 pm
Since 12.1 Slackware beta was released I think vector 6.0 should be based on 12.1 .  Of course I have no idea where the project is at and how any of this works but I think it would be a good idea depending on when they want to release 6.0.
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: vector on April 08, 2008, 11:15:17 pm
yeppers 12.1 slack will be part of 6.0................:)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: M-ake on April 24, 2008, 09:18:36 am
Just an idea for the vectolopers out there.

How about including an option to enable encryption for your HD with a few simple clicks? It would be a killer feature and a nice option to VasmCC. Think about laptops being stolen all the time, and I wouldn't have to worry about police invading my house because if illegally downloaded stuff, lol.

Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: justin on June 22, 2008, 11:08:31 pm
I know you have a lot of things planned for 6.0, limited manpower, and at least 4 editions.  This is just out of curiosity.  When do you think 6.0 will be released?  3 months, 6 months, 2009?  Too soon to know? 
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on June 24, 2008, 12:56:32 pm
anyone know when we will see some 6.0 Alphas or betas?
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: uelsk8s on June 24, 2008, 01:06:37 pm
anyone know when we will see some 6.0 Alphas or betas?

well if you're brave look here: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-current/iso-test/
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on June 24, 2008, 03:07:19 pm
anyone know when we will see some 6.0 Alphas or betas?

well if you're brave look here: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-current/iso-test/

Thanks uelsk8s will download and give it a try. do you want any bug reports at this stage?

Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: uelsk8s on June 24, 2008, 03:58:52 pm
no bug reports yet, thanks though 
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on June 24, 2008, 05:37:41 pm
no bug reports yet, thanks though 
have it installed neat so far , lxde Nice
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: vector on July 10, 2008, 01:03:43 am
try the dygnome 0.8 in iso-test in current we are considering this as the first alpha in vl-6.0. no bug reports but early impressions would be good. Actually bug reports are ok too. Uel will be off for a week so we can accumulate impressions and bugs for him to digest on his return.............:)

cheers,
vec

vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-current/iso-test/VL6.0-dygnome0.8.iso (http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-current/iso-test/VL6.0-dygnome0.8.iso)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on July 10, 2008, 03:05:34 am
Will give it a run is it ok to build packages against?

Dave
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on July 10, 2008, 04:41:20 am
first impression of dygnome-0.8 pretty good it's a good gnome layout , few annoyances though , to be expected I suppose.

1. slapt-get /gslapt will not do an --update it just stalls when i try it no error message.
2. no testing repository listed in slapt-get/slapt-getrc

so can't try programs I run every day.

more to come in general I like it.  but will play more and see
nice work :)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on July 10, 2008, 06:26:51 am
P.S. have a nice vacation Uel :)
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: kc1di on July 10, 2008, 12:57:29 pm
the more I use dygnome 0.8 the more I like it.

grows on you... nice layout etc.   the slapt-get/gslapt problem seems to have resolved itself so maybe it was a server problem.

will keep it for awhile.
Thanks,
Dave
Title: Re: Roadmap to 6.0
Post by: exeterdad on July 10, 2008, 01:14:51 pm
dygnome? Kewl! I'll need to shuffle some stuff around and create another partition to give it a whirl.