VectorLinux

General Announcements => Distro Releases => Topic started by: uelsk8s on September 04, 2007, 07:46:46 am

Title: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: uelsk8s on September 04, 2007, 07:46:46 am
The VectorLinux development team has decided to cancel further development of the 5.8.6 series.
The limitations, and conflicts of an old toolchain mixed with new software became too much of a hassle.
We have decided to post this RC2 release mostly for historical purposes, and because it may be useful to some.
It is quite stable, but on some machines Beryl causes problems.
This release is considered unsupported. If you have a problem with it we will try to help, but may eventually just recommend a different version.
That being said This release has many improvements from RC1.

The 700 mb iso release is here: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-5.8/iso-test/VL5.8.6-SOHO-RC2.iso
md5sum: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-5.8/iso-test/VL5.8.6-SOHO-RC2.iso.md5.txt

Cheers,
The VectorLinux team
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 04, 2007, 04:19:29 pm
What are the plans for the future? Is the development team going to start on 5.9 series or just jump right into 6.0? What major changes will be presented in the next planned release?
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: uelsk8s on September 04, 2007, 04:36:28 pm
I am glad you asked. :)

We are starting with 5.9
It is based on slack-12.
The biggest change that I know of now will be the requirement of packagers to submit source with there packages.
The 5.9 repo is populated with packages already, and we have a packagers build ready for download.
The dist-upgrade option should work.
you can get the ISO here: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-5.9/iso-test/VL5.9-Pseudo-1.iso
the installer is ugly, but it will help us make sure packages are built correctly.

Thanks,
Uelsk8s
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 04, 2007, 06:29:30 pm
Will the 5.8 packages still be compatible with 5.9? I would expect that most would except for an obvious few. In particular, is their going to be much trouble getting our Video Production Bonus Disc ported over to this? Will we have to rebuild most of the packages or do you think that most will work with it?

The dist-upgrade option should work.
Will it work to upgrade from 5.8 to 5.9 or is that too big of a jump?

I'm really looking forward to a Slackware 12 based Vector Linux!

Keep up the good work devs!
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: uelsk8s on September 04, 2007, 07:56:05 pm
Will the 5.8 packages still be compatible with 5.9? I would expect that most would except for an obvious few. In particular, is their going to be much trouble getting our Video Production Bonus Disc ported over to this? Will we have to rebuild most of the packages or do you think that most will work with it?
IMO the packages from 5.8 should not be used on 5.9. They might work, and they might caused segfaults on some systems. not worth the risk if you ask me.
The dist-upgrade option should work.
Will it work to upgrade from 5.8 to 5.9 or is that too big of a jump?
this shouldnt be a problem,  :)
I'm really looking forward to a Slackware 12 based Vector Linux!

Keep up the good work devs!
you should give it a try it is a nice system so far and will only get better

Uelsk8s
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 04, 2007, 08:21:44 pm
you should give it a try it is a nice system so far and will only get better

I will give it a try as soon as I can make room on my system for it. One more thing that I'm curious about, why the 5.9.x naming scheme? It seems that everything that you said about the changes are big enough that it would warrant naming it 6.0. (Slackware made the jump from 11.0 to 12.0)

Also, how much of the next version will be taken from slackware-current? It seems that if VL is based on slack12 it would quickly become behind when the next version of Slackware is released and the rest of the world moves on. Why not take as much from slackware-current as is reasonably possible (without sacrificing stability and sanity of course) so as to have pretty much the same package set as the upcoming version of Slackware? Maybe you do that already, I don't know.

Looking forward to trying it out!
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Joe1962 on September 04, 2007, 09:29:40 pm
...why the 5.9.x naming scheme?
This follows one of the common version numbering conventions, like Gambas2-1.9.x is the development series that will become the stable 2.0. VL 5.9.x is the development line for 6.0.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: exeterdad on September 05, 2007, 06:52:06 am
Whoo Hooo! This is going to be fun!

How, where, when do we submit packages for 5.9?
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: uelsk8s on September 05, 2007, 08:32:41 am
Whoo Hooo! This is going to be fun!

How, where, when do we submit packages for 5.9?

1)How?
same as with 5.8, BUT you must also submit a source dir with the package.
2)where?
In your vectorcontrib in a folder labeled 5.9 packages
3)when?
Now :)


Thanks,
Uelsk8s
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: exeterdad on September 05, 2007, 09:05:15 am
Quote
1)How?
same as with 5.8, BUT you must also submit a source dir with the package.
Wouldn't have it any other way  ;)

Yeay... New toolchain! I can't wait to see what
Quote
--hash-style=gnu
in the LDFLAGS will do with speeding up load times of the bigger apps.  50% faster on VL will be very exciting  ;D
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 05, 2007, 03:59:59 pm
Yeay... New toolchain! I can't wait to see what
Quote
--hash-style=gnu
in the LDFLAGS will do with speeding up load times of the bigger apps.  50% faster on VL will be very exciting  ;D

Are you serious? I find that hard to believe, 50% faster is such a huge amount that it doesn't seem that it would really be do that. Where did you get that information?
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: exeterdad on September 05, 2007, 04:40:03 pm
I posted about it in the "Roadmap to 6.0" thread but no one seemed to notice.  There are links to info's

http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3782.msg24616#msg24616

I'm on the new vl5.9 right now.  I'm thinking about building  firefox after
Quote
export LDFLAGS="-Wl,--hash-style=gnu"
and then compare it to a regular firefox build to compare load times.  But other than a stopwatch, I don't know how to benchmark load times.

Just for the heck of it I built ntpd with the above mentioned export.  I could see the hash was included successfully by checking a binary
Quote
readelf -a ntpd |grep -i GNU_HASH
The result:
Quote
  [ 3] .gnu.hash         GNU_HASH        08048148 000148 000048 04   A  4   0  4
 0x6ffffef5 (GNU_HASH)                   0x8048148

So know we can do it with the new toolcain if we chose.  It's already available.  We just need to harness it.
BTW I've been checking random binaries and can't find any packages built thus far with the hash included.   :-\ The more built that way would just add to the overall speed of the distro.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 05, 2007, 04:50:34 pm
I posted about it in the "Roadmap to 6.0" thread but no one seemed to notice.  There are links to info's

http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3782.msg24616#msg24616

I'm on the new vl5.9 right now.  I'm thinking about building  firefox after
Quote
export LDFLAGS="-Wl,--hash-style=gnu"
and then compare it to a regular firefox build to compare load times.  But other than a stopwatch, I don't know how to benchmark load times.

Just for the heck of it I built ntpd with the above mentioned export.  I could see the hash was included successfully by checking a binary
Quote
readelf -a ntpd |grep -i GNU_HASH
The result:
Quote
  [ 3] .gnu.hash         GNU_HASH        08048148 000148 000048 04   A  4   0  4
 0x6ffffef5 (GNU_HASH)                   0x8048148

So know we can do it with the new toolcain if we chose.  It's already available.  We just need to harness it.
BTW I've been checking random binaries and can't find any packages built thus far with the hash included.   :-\ The more built that way would just add to the overall speed of the distro.

This will be interesting to test. When I get 5.9 installed, I'll try it with Gimp or something similar that takes a relatively long time to load.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: rbistolfi on September 05, 2007, 05:05:39 pm
hmm, gimp will need to scan for plugins at startup anyway, and mozilla apps still needs to load a lot of classes in ram at boot time because of the nature of the code. Same for OO and almost every cross-platform app. I dont have a suggestion to try the new compile flags :-[, but I think those apps will not gain too much.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: exeterdad on September 05, 2007, 05:17:36 pm
hmm, gimp will need to scan for plugins at startup anyway, and mozilla apps still needs to load a lot of classes in ram at boot time because of the nature of the code. Same for OO and almost every cross-platform app. I dont have a suggestion to try the new compile flags :-[, but I think those apps will not gain too much.
KDE    ...but I'd REALLY want to have to test it to build it  :)

I've got firefox building as we speak.  Hopefully that will answer some questions.  Somewhat anyway.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 05, 2007, 05:31:35 pm
Is VL 5.9 going to have HAL and DBUS support? Slackware 12 does, but I don't know if that's something that VL wants to have. I personally really want HAL and DBUS included.

I guess I'll find out here pretty soon, I'm downloading at right now.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 05, 2007, 08:23:54 pm
When naming packages for VL 5.9 should I name them with 4vl59 or 4vl60?
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: exeterdad on September 05, 2007, 09:03:47 pm
I was wondering that as well.

BTW I ran the firefox I built with export LDFLAGS="-Wl,--hash-style=gnu".  It starts in less then 4 seconds (cold start).  And restarts in less then 3 seconds.  Then I installed the latest firefox in our repos.  It seems to start about a second and a half slower in both counts.  This is a pretty slow box (1 ghz Athlon thunderbird, 512 MB ram)  using VL5.9x.

And the package was the smallest yet weighing in at 6.9MB.  Maybe the old hash values really do take up more diskspace.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: rbistolfi on September 06, 2007, 04:57:29 am
It starts in less then 4 seconds (cold start).  And restarts in less then 3 seconds.  Then I installed the latest firefox in our repos.  It seems to start about a second and a half slower in both counts.

That is a very good improvement!
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Masta on September 06, 2007, 08:59:03 pm


This will be interesting to test. When I get 5.9 installed, I'll try it with Gimp or something similar that takes a relatively long time to load.

Sounds great! My Gimp is HUGE and especially loading fonts, it takes it a while to load. I've trimmed out the fonts to reduce it's loading time, but sure would be great to see it improved.

Please, Let me know how this works out.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: exeterdad on September 07, 2007, 07:18:16 am
Okay. The gimp version that  comes installed is 2.2.15.  So I went to our vl5.9 sources and downloaded the source and original (I'm assuming) slackbuild script.  To keep the test fair I didn't change anything other than add:
Quote
export LDFLAGS="-Wl,--hash-style=gnu"
to the top line and edit the output name of the package so I could tell the packages apart.

To be honest I couldn't really see much difference in load times of the two packages.  The one I made with --hash-style=gnu MIGHT load a half of a second faster.

I did initial startup so gimp could setup the prefs.  Reboot. Cold start. Close.  Warm start.  I started my times from execution until the 3 windows were loaded.  So there should be some human error.

Gimp installed= 6 seconds cold, 5 seconds warm
Gimp rebuilt   =  About the same numbers, maybe a half second faster on both tries.

1 ghz Athlon Thunderbird, 512 MB ram, VL5.9x XFCE

It would seem that this confirms rbistolfi's thoughts about the plugins.

But...  I did test something else.  The gimp installed was a .tlz package.  I'm assuming there was a repack of the original .tgz to save disk space.  So I repacked the gimp .tgz that I had built.  There is a slight difference in size.  Perhaps another way to squeeze more onto our ISO's?

Quote
leeh:$ ls -s
total 13000
6514 gimp-2.2.15-i486-1.tlz 
6486 gimp-GNU-HASH-2.2.15-i486-1.tlz

Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: spb37 on September 07, 2007, 08:23:01 am
Will VL 5.9 be faster than Slack 12.

Crude but I use  http://scragz.com/tech/mozilla/test-rendering-time
as described in   http://apcmag.com/3097/whats_the_worlds_fastest_browser

to compare firefox between distros or machines. 
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: exeterdad on September 07, 2007, 08:31:01 am
Thanks for the tip spb37.

But the gnu hash is library linking related.  I will only affect initial startup/load times of the application.  Once the application is up and running, the hash will not affect performance.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: caitlyn on September 14, 2007, 09:18:11 pm
Right now I've got both 5.8.6rc2 and 5.9Pseudo1 installed.  (VL64-5.9Pseudo0.1 goes on the Gateway this weekend  ;D)  In a way it's a shame 5.8.6 was dropped because it pretty much was ready for prime time if you didn't include Beryl.  The only bugs I've seen:

1.  Grub -- didn't label partitions correctly and didn't choose correct partitions or kernel/initrd images for other Linux partitions.  I had to boot into VL and manually edit my /boot/grub/menu.lst

2.  X Configuration -- Installer set my resolution at 800x600 even though I specified 1024x768.  Every 5.x release has done this and I get a small desktop surrounded by black on my Toshiba laptop.  I had to manually edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf to fix this.  Nothing new here.

3.  pygobject, a dependency for wifi-radar, wasn't installed.  wifi-radar won't start without it.  A slapt-get pygobject fixed this.

That's it and it's a pretty small list.  I didn't install Beryl since I knew it was a problem child. 

Why bother?  PERFORMANCE!  With the newer kernel and whatever tweaks were done KDE simply flies even on my nearly five year old Toshiba laptop (1 GHz Celeron, 512MB RAM).  5.8.6rc2 is faster than 5.8 SOHO.  That, plus pretty much all the patches/upgrades to 5.8 SOHO are already installed.  rc2 has some newer versions of apps and tools than rc1 as well.

Anyway, that's my take on 5.8.6rc2.  I'll use 5.9 for testing and, obviously, to build packages.  My working installation, though, will be 5.8.6rc2 until 6.0 is ready for prime time.
Title: Re: VL-5.8.6-SOHO-Release Candidate Two
Post by: Vxt on September 15, 2007, 01:02:17 pm
FWIW (MMV)

Good Reads (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=ld_flags&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)

E.G.

> 'UDF CFg files'

>  'CC = '