VectorLinux

Vectorbie Station => Introducing Yourself => Topic started by: maurolust on November 03, 2007, 07:51:29 am

Title: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 03, 2007, 07:51:29 am
Hi, I'm a telco grad student from Brazil, new to Linux in every possible way and to forums in general. My main concern is to use VL to learn more about OS's in general, improve my computer skills and become less dependent from Microsoft. One day who knows, I might leave Windows for good. I hope you can help convince me to do so.

So far, my attempt to start using Linux hasn't worked very well. I bought a new HD so I could install VL without giving away my Windows installation, but after cloning my current system (60GB) to the new HDD (100GB) I realized I couldn't install another OS on the remaining partition (apparently it was too high in the memory address).

I had actually partitioned this new disk in advance, but apparently clonezilla overwrote all previous partitions when I cloned the old drive. Is there any tutorial on how to install Linux without giving up on your previous system? Is there a disk partitioning/cloning freeware better than clonezilla?

I probably should post this question in another section, but since I'm already at it and it seem like a very simple issue, maybe I can kill two birds.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: bigpaws on November 03, 2007, 08:35:32 am
Welcome to Vector Linux!

Why did you clone the Hard drive?

Why do you believe there was a problem with the memory space (usually not an issue)?

Which version of Vector are you trying to install?

There is a search box that you can search for answers that maybe relevant
to your problem.

Install the second drive no need to clone unless you were moving the drives for
another reason. Use the second drive for Vector and leave the first drive alone.

HTH

Bigpaws
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 03, 2007, 12:17:06 pm
Welcome to Vector Linux!

Why did you clone the Hard drive?
(...)
Why do you believe there was a problem with the memory space (usually not an issue)?

Install the second drive no need to clone unless you were moving the drives for
another reason. Use the second drive for Vector and leave the first drive alone.

HTH

Bigpaws

Thank you for the fast reply! First of all, I'm installing the So Ho 5.8 version. And I forgot to mention that my computer is a Laptop (with no space for a 2nd HDD) and I plan on keeping my old HDD as an external back up storage for data. That's why I wanted to clone the old disk, i's the only way I can keep the content and software I have installed there and have more disk space for VL.

I shouldn't have written "memory"  :-X, I actually meant 'storage'. The VL installation was aborted exactly at the step when the ext2 partition was being examined ('partition error'). I don't know much about this, but I've been told it's not recommended to install an OS when you have a 60GB NTFS partition before the ext2. I'll check other threads on the ideal partitioning scheme for multiboot installation (this case is not detailed in the 'HOWTOs').
thanks

Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: lagagnon on November 03, 2007, 02:29:31 pm
We are unable to help you until we know what partitioning scheme you now have on the replicated drive. You can do that by going into the VL Install CD, second screen, choose Exit, you then end up at a root console. Type "fdisk -l" and post the output of that command here so we can determine what partitions you have and if you have any free space to install VL.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: GrannyGeek on November 03, 2007, 06:12:23 pm
That's why I wanted to clone the old disk, i's the only way I can keep the content and software I have installed there and have more disk space for VL.

You can shrink an NTFS or FAT32 partition without data loss using GParted. It's on the VectorLinux 5.8 LiveCD and also on SystemRescue (do a Web search for that--free download, lots of nice utilities for fixing Linux and Windows). I used GParted on my Vista NTFS Drive C to carve out 16 gigs for VectorLinux. Worked perfectly. Actually, I shrank the drive by 48 gigs, then created an extended partition to include all the empty space, then created a 32-gig FAT32 volume using Vista's Disk Management Snapin, then within the extended partition I created a 512-meg swap partition for Linux using cfdisk, and then I made a Linux partition of all the remaining space using cfdisk. I formatted it as reiserfs.

Be sure to back up your Windows partition before you do any repartitioning, regardless of what tool you use. Although it's usually reliable, something bad does occasionally happen. Also, having a backup scares away the computer gremlins.<g>

Why are you using ext2? ext3 is a journalling file system, as is reiserfs (to mention the tried and true file systems).

Quote
I've been told it's not recommended to install an OS when you have a 60GB NTFS partition before the ext2.

Not in my experience. I have two computers with NTFS partitions of over 60 gigs before my Linux partition. They are all formatted with reiserfs. Unless your computer has a very old BIOS, Linux can boot from just about anywhere. The boot manager will find it.

I have three computers with multiboot. The one I'm writing on is a laptop with Vista and VL 5.9 beta. My newer desktop has XP and VL 5.8 Standard and two hard drives. My older desktop has Win 98SE, Win XP, and three versions of VectorLinux. It also has two hard drives. On none of them is Linux the sole occupant of a hard drive.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 04, 2007, 10:22:51 am
I decided to shift my cloned partition 2GiB to the right, now my HDD is being partitioned as following:
new primary #1 2GiB ReiserFS on /dev/hdc
/dev/hdc1 55.88GiB NTFS on /dev/hdc1
new primary #2 10.00GiB ReiserFS on /dev/hdc
extended partition #3 25.28GiB on /dev/hdc

Moving the partition is taking a lot longer than it took me to clone it in the first place :P. It will probably be over in 4 hours!

See you later!
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 04, 2007, 05:18:42 pm
This time I managed to install VL, but I'm facing some problems with the boot loader :(

first time I tried lilo, which resulted in:
lilo error=Fatal
either FIX-TABLE or IGNORE TABLE must be specified


then I reinstalled trying GRUB, the error message was :

Running "install/boot/grub/stage1(hd0,3)(hd0,3) 1+22p (hd0,3)/boot/grub/stage2/boot/grub/menu1st"...failed
Error 6: Mismatched or corrupt version of stage1/stage2
grub>quit

My partition settings were:
primary #1 2GiB swap
primary #2 60GiB NTFS (XP)
primary #3 10GiB ReiserFS (root)
Primary #4 27GiB ReiserFS (user)
 logical #5 22GiB (user)
 logical #6 5GiB

The 5GiB logical partition was meant for XP/Linux file exchange, but I don't think I did it right :-[. Anyway that would require a new thread. Any solved similar case?
It doesn't look like I'll have to go through the whole installation process again, does it?
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: lagagnon on November 04, 2007, 05:25:53 pm
I suspect that the partition to which you are attempting to install a boot loader to has not been made "bootable" when you created your partitions. The output of the Linux command will tell you if you have a bootable partition or not (there will be an asterisk under the boot column). If you have problems read the Installation guide at our website, the partitioning part ( http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/docs/vl58/manuals/vl5_installation_guide_en.html#partitioning ).

You may not have to re-install - you just go to the second page on the VL Install screens and choose LILO Repair, after you have fixed up your partitions.

Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: uelsk8s on November 04, 2007, 05:29:37 pm
looks like you have a bad partition scheme to me.
you should not be able to have 4 primary partitions and an extended partition.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: nightflier on November 05, 2007, 03:40:53 am
If you moved your windows partition, that may cause problems for XP. Do you have the discs needed to re-install it?
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 05, 2007, 03:52:32 am
If you moved your windows partition, that may cause problems for XP. Do you have the discs needed to re-install it?

Sure I do. XP is doing very well in his new home.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: nightflier on November 05, 2007, 04:00:18 am
Did you re-install XP from scratch, repair old one, or did it just boot right up after the cloning/moving operations?
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 05, 2007, 04:29:52 am
Did you re-install XP from scratch, repair old one, or did it just boot right up after the cloning/moving operations?

It booted right up! Nightflier was right, there were 3 primaries (Swap,XP and Root) and the others are extended partitions. I changed the shared partition (the logical partition accessible to both VL and XP) to fat32 and made the root partition bootable, but still the lilo repair didn't work, same error message as before (and XP wouldn't boot, but it got back to normal after I toggled the root's boot capability off). Maybe I should take some time to read the lilo man page, or should I use Grub instead?
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: nightflier on November 05, 2007, 04:48:29 am
uelsk8s gets credit for spotting the partition anomaly  ;)

You don't need your linux root partition to be set as bootable. Leave everything set as it is when XP works. Once the boot loader gets going, it can continue to other (non-bootable) partitions.

Can you boot VL by using the CD and entering "linux root=/dev/hdXX ro" where hdXX is where you installed VL?

There is another way of multi-booting, as described here:
http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1073.msg6559#msg6559
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 05, 2007, 05:12:52 am
Can you boot VL by using the CD and entering "linux root=/dev/hdXX ro" where hdXX is where you installed VL?
Yes, I can.

There is another way of multi-booting, as described here:
http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1073.msg6559#msg6559
I'm looking forward to try this, but it seems to me that I first should get lilo properly installed, right? :-\

By the way, SoHo looks great. 8)
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: nightflier on November 05, 2007, 05:33:22 am
Okay, now we have a better idea of what your system looks like. You are correct, we do need to get the boot loader installed somewhere.

I would try to boot to VL using the CD. As root run "vasm", go to filesystem, LILO and try to install from there. If you want to multiboot using LILO/GRUB, it should go in the MBR, even though it says "possibly unsafe". If it messes up, you can repair using your XP install disk (assuming it's not a "restore disk"). If that doesn't work, you may try to install to root partition and use the alternate procedure to add it to the XP boot menu.

You are in a good position since you have your old hard drive as a backup. Trivia: the reason why moving a partition takes longer than cloning is that when cloning, you have two drives, one reading and one writing. When moving, one drive has to do all the work.

If you end up starting over, I would just clone the drive and leave Windows on the first partition. Unless the machine is ancient it should work just fine.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: lagagnon on November 05, 2007, 07:03:07 am
Please boot the VL Install CD choose "Exit" at the second install screen, type "fdisk -l" and post that output to this thread. There is still something wrong with your partitions if you cannot write lilo to the MBR.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 06, 2007, 05:56:04 pm
Here goes the output
(I copied it manually, was there a smart way to copy + paste that? ::) ):

Code: [Select]

disk/dev/hdc:  1 heads, 195371568 sactors, 1 cylinders

Units= cylinders of 195371568 * 512 bytes

Device Boot    Start    End    Blocks        Id    System
/dev/hdc1*    1          1       58597087+  7    HPFS/NTFS

Partition 1 has different physical/logical beginnings (non-Linux?):
phys=(261, 0, 1)   logical = (0, 0, 4192966)

Partition 1 has different physical/logical endings:
phys=(1023, 254, 63)   logical = (0, 0, 121387140)

Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary:
phys(1023, 254, 63) should be (1023, 0, 195371568)


/dev/hdc2    1          1       2096451     82    Linus Swap

Partition 2 has different physical/logical beginnings (non-Linux?):
phys=(0, 1, 1)   logical = (0, 0, 64)

Partition 2 has different physical/logical endings:
phys=(260, 254, 63)   logical = (0, 0, 4192965)

Partition 2 does not end on cylinder boundary:
phys(260, 254, 63) should be (260, 0, 195371568)


/dev/hdc3    1          1       26989200     5    Extended

Partition 3 has different physical/logical beginnings (non-Linux?):
phys=(1023, 254, 63)   logical = (0, 0, 141388066)

Partition 3 has different physical/logical endings:
phys=(1023, 254, 63)   logical = (0, 0, 195366465)

Partition 3 does not end on cylinder boundary:
phys=(1023, 254, 63) should be (1023,  0, 195371568)

/dev/hdc4    1          1       10000462+     83    Linux

Partition 4 has different physical/logical beginnings (non-Linux?):
phys=(1023, 254, 63)   logical = (0, 0, 121387141)

Partition 4 has different physical/logical endings:
phys=(1023, 254, 63)   logical = (0, 0, 141388065)

Partition 4 does not end on cylinder boundary:
phys=(1023, 254, 63) should be (1023,  0, 195371568)


/dev/hdc5    1          1       21743946     83    Linux
/dev/hdc6    1          1       5245191      b     Win95 FAT32

partition table entries are not in disk order
Units= cylinders of 195371568 * 512 bytes

Device Boot    Start    End    Blocks        Id    System
/dev/hdc1*    1          1       58597087+  7    HPFS/NTFS

Partition 1 has different physical/logical beginnings (non-Linux?):


Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: uelsk8s on November 06, 2007, 06:17:16 pm
Very odd partition table.
You should not be able to have both a hdc4 and a hdc5
partition numbers 1-4 are reserved for primary partitions.
you can only have 4 primary partitions, and if you have 4 primary partitions you should not be able to also have an extended partition.
I would suggest repartitioning the drive with a good partitioning tool.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: nightflier on November 06, 2007, 06:30:48 pm
(I copied it manually, was there a smart way to copy + paste that?

You could just type
fdisk -l > output.txt
- that creates a text file (output.txt) with everything in it.

Or, if you're running X-windows, most terminal emulators will allow you to copy and paste using mouse or keyboard.
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 07, 2007, 04:24:29 am
(I copied it manually, was there a smart way to copy + paste that?

You could just type
fdisk -l > output.txt
- that creates a text file (output.txt) with everything in it.

Or, if you're running X-windows, most terminal emulators will allow you to copy and paste using mouse or keyboard.

And where would that .txt be saved? ???(sorry for the sequel of really stupid questions) . Better use the .txt, I might have missed something.

Very odd partition table.
You should not be able to have both a hdc4 and a hdc5
partition numbers 1-4 are reserved for primary partitions.
you can only have 4 primary partitions, and if you have 4 primary partitions you should not be able to also have an extended partition.
I would suggest repartitioning the drive with a good partitioning tool.

Partition 3 is an extended partition, 1 (NTFS), 2 (Swap), 4 (Root) are physical, 5 and 6 are logical (as Uelskate spotted earlier. My bad, I posted something wrong on Sunday). Besides that, is there anything wrong with my partitions? I guess the different beginning/ending thing comes from the fact that I moved partition 1 to fit the swap partition (2) in the beginning (there was no need for doing so, right? Huge waste of time... :P)

Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: rbistolfi on November 07, 2007, 05:07:13 am
Quote
And where would that .txt be saved? Huh(sorry for the sequel of really stupid questions) . Better use the .txt, I might have missed something.

The txt will be in the same dir where you executed the command. You can know where you are typing pwd, but it is in your prompt too..
So, if you are in /home/your_username/,

Code: [Select]
$ pwd
/home/your_username
$ fdisk -l > output.txt

Will end with a file named output.txt in  /home/your_username. You can use absolute path too. So doing fdisk -l /home/your_username/output.txt will end with the file in the specified path.
You can copy and paste using your mouse. Select the text, and go to the "destination window" and click your middle button, or both at the same time if you have a two button mouse.

Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: exeterdad on November 07, 2007, 08:03:09 am
Or you could specify where you would like the output.txt file to be by:
Quote
fdisk -l > /home/yourname/output.txt
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 10, 2007, 05:45:13 am
Raw txt file output, no space for human flaws now (sounds like famous last words coming from a noob).

Code: [Select]
Disk /dev/hdc: 100.0 GB, 100030242816 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 12161 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/hdc1   *         262        7556    58597087+   7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hdc2               1         261     2096451   82  Linux swap
/dev/hdc3            8802       12161    26989200    5  Extended
/dev/hdc4            7557        8801    10000462+  83  Linux
/dev/hdc5            8802       11508    21743946   83  Linux
/dev/hdc6           11509       12161     5245191    b  W95 FAT32
Partition table entries are not in disk order
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: nightflier on November 10, 2007, 09:06:11 am
Solving this puzzle might be an interesting challenge for advanced users, but may not be the best way for you to get started.

If I were you, I would start over. Clone the drive, leave Windows on the first partition, add swap and Linux partitions and re-install. That way you will have more of a standard setup that would be easier to work with. Just my $0.02.  ;D
Title: Re: Introducing myself
Post by: maurolust on November 15, 2007, 12:54:22 pm
You're obviously right. I'm just postponing that whole process again, I'll be back by christmas. Thanks for the attention.