VectorLinux

The nuts and bolts => Web & Internet => Topic started by: Tigerwolf on November 03, 2007, 10:27:50 pm

Title: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: Tigerwolf on November 03, 2007, 10:27:50 pm
I'd let Firefox check for and install some updates and this was working up until version 2.0.0.7.   These came from Mozilla.

At that point, I noticed a VL release 2.0.0.7 flagged in the repository.   In order to  let the package database get up to date, I let glslapt re-install the same version.

Since then, it seems to find no updates at Mozilla.  Both 2.0.0.8 and now 2.0.0.9 have not been seen, and even a manually initiated check for updates says none available.

I've looked at update-related stuff in about:config, and everything there seems ok.

Is there anything in the VL-packaged Firefox that would prevent updates from being seen?

Is anyone else noting this behavior?
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 03, 2007, 11:46:33 pm
2.0.0.9 is compiling at this very moment for VL5.9, VL5.8 should be done Monday.  ;)
Using the official Firefox update could be bad.  Our Firefox is compiled with our toolchain and flags.  Mixing official binaries with ours, might leave a bad taste in your mouth.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: Colonel Panic on November 04, 2007, 06:33:24 am
Mine updated automatically to 2.0.0.9 whilst I was using it (in Vector 5.8 ), I don't know whether that's a problem or a good thing.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: nightflier on November 04, 2007, 06:45:34 am
Default is to automatically update, but can only happen when you're running as root (or administrator in other OS).
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: Tigerwolf on November 04, 2007, 10:51:13 am
Default is to automatically update, but can only happen when you're running as root (or administrator in other OS).

It was running under root since I'm doing upgrades to the master machine for an upcoming convention.

I even forced a Help/Check for updates.   It always (including just now) said there were none.

Our Firefox is set to check, but ask before installing anything, but I never saw any indication updates were available.  In the past, nag popups happened fairly quickly after a new release.

I can always do a manual update, or wait for the VL packaged releases, but was more curious as to why the VL version was ignoring checks for new releases in case the install of 2.0.0.7 changed something, or left some cruft behind someplace that borked it that I need to clean up.

I will stick the one Exeterdad's working on in once it's available and see how it does.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 04, 2007, 12:32:28 pm
As far as I know, I haven't disabled anything to suppress the checking. If you check out
Quote
about:buildconfig
in your browser, you can see the build options I used.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: Tigerwolf on November 04, 2007, 01:41:07 pm
As far as I know, I haven't disabled anything to suppress the checking. If you check out
Quote
about:buildconfig
in your browser, you can see the build options I used.

Oh!  Cool!  I didn't know about that one!   

Now if information like this was included as part of every VL package, life would get lots simpler!
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: GrannyGeek on November 04, 2007, 02:38:55 pm
My Firefox 2.0.0.7 won't update, either. It tells me there are no updates available (running Firefox as root in order to check). This is with 5.9 beta 2.4.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 04, 2007, 02:45:59 pm
A little digging, I didn't disable the features, but I didn't enable them either.
Quote
--enable-update-channel=release --enable-update-packaging
I'm can't be sure this is a good idea though.  Not when Firefox is compiled by us.  I may build a test package with these flags enabled to test to see it it blows up when updating.  But wouldn't think about releasing until it's been tested.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: GrannyGeek on November 04, 2007, 03:01:22 pm
I've used Firefox's Update feature for a very long time and never had a problem. I start out with whatever version comes with VL and just update through Firefox from there. So if bad things can happen by updating this way, I haven't encountered them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: Tigerwolf on November 04, 2007, 03:26:17 pm
I've used Firefox's Update feature for a very long time and never had a problem. I start out with whatever version comes with VL and just update through Firefox from there. So if bad things can happen by updating this way, I haven't encountered them. Maybe I've just been lucky.

I've not seen any problems using Firefox's own  updates  either.   However, I usually install the official VL packaged version later to keep the package database up to date.

The problem is, with many machines in public use, closing any holes or crasher bugs via FF updates gets the fixes in place ASAP, since it's the most used application.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 04, 2007, 03:40:09 pm
Quote
So if bad things can happen by updating this way, I haven't encountered them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
--GrannyGeek
Until Firefox-2.0.0.6, VL Firefox packages were merely repacks of the Firefox you download right off of the website.  Since then we have been compiling our own from source.  So since we are doing that, updates through the Firefox interface would mix binaries compiled with different tool chains and flags.  That's why I fear something could go wrong.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: GrannyGeek on November 04, 2007, 05:16:57 pm
Until Firefox-2.0.0.6, VL Firefox packages were merely repacks of the Firefox you download right off of the website.  Since then we have been compiling our own from source.  So since we are doing that, updates through the Firefox interface would mix binaries compiled with different tool chains and flags.  That's why I fear something could go wrong.

I would prefer the old way (repacks of the Firefox you download off the Web). Then we're not forced to wait for a VL package when a new Firefox is issued. Most of those updates are for security fixes and I'd prefer to have them right away.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 04, 2007, 10:22:58 pm
I would prefer the old way (repacks of the Firefox you download off the Web). Then we're not forced to wait for a VL package when a new Firefox is issued. Most of those updates are for security fixes and I'd prefer to have them right away.
--GrannyGeek
This is a good thread. Some valid thoughts and concerns here. Thought I'd report back to you that we are looking into this.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: nightflier on November 05, 2007, 03:53:44 am
Do we gain any speed or other advantages by compiling our own version?
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 05, 2007, 03:57:01 am
Do we gain any speed or other advantages by compiling our own version?
Firefox loads much faster with our own compile.  After load time, I don't know that there's much difference.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: ghartl1 on November 05, 2007, 04:11:45 am
is there now a package for soho 5.8 available?
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 05, 2007, 05:17:49 am
is there now a package for soho 5.8 available?
Not quite yet.  It's built already, but I'm holding off for a bit until we figure out what we're going to do about things mentioned in this thread.  :)
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: ghartl1 on November 05, 2007, 06:09:32 am
but I'm holding off for a bit until we figure out what we're going to do about things mentioned in this thread.

does that mean you are consideriing issues before you release a package :-)))))

no serious now:
is it a viable option to install 2.00.9 via sourcecode..any experiences now?

greets g√ľnter
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: exeterdad on November 05, 2007, 09:56:24 am
Quote
is it a viable option to install 2.00.9 via sourcecode..any experiences now?
Not quite sure what your asking, but I'll try to answer.  Of course you can install via source code if you want to compile your own.  But if you haven't built Mozilla apps before, it can be a tricky adventure, not to mention about 2 hours of compiling (on my slow machine) before you install.  Also a complete un-install of Firefox later is a nightmare. And only possible if you keep your 200+ MB of source code laying around.  But even then, you will still have the issue of not being able to use Firefox's "AutoUpdate" feature.

Turn's out AutoUpdate is only possible with "Official Mozilla" builds. I'm not even going to attempt to explain why as I am a horrible teacher/explainer.

So it's official...  After totally trashing one of our busy dev's PM box, we've concluded that we will revert to the old way of packaging Firefox.  Meaning we will download the official Firefox, package it so it is easy to remove via slapt-get/gslapt, and add some minor VL tweaks. Once installed, users will have the option of updating via Firefox's AutoUpdate (as root), or waiting a bit longer until our packagers (I guess me) notices there is a new Firefox release, and builds/uploads a VL package for it.  You probably will notice a slower initial load time with the official builds, but at least you'll know right away if there is a important security/bugfix available.

This will happen for VL5.8 for Firefox-2.0.0.9 right away.  We will wait until Firefox has another new release before doing this for VL5.9.  So until then, autoupdate will not work for VL5.9.

It's probably going to take a couple more days until I've uploaded Firefox-2.0.0.9 for VL5.8 as I need to rewrite the build script, and rethink how the Firefox language packs are going to be dealt with since there is going to be conflicts to resolve now.

Spare time is limited today, so hang in there.   :)

BTW Tigerwolf, Thanks for pointing this out.
Title: Re: Firefox not updating ??
Post by: JohnB316 on November 11, 2007, 08:54:12 am
Do we gain any speed or other advantages by compiling our own version?

No, but we do run into a big issue with the Firefox branding. The folks at Firefox are very particular about how the Firefox branding and artwork can and can't be used. If we roll our own Firefox as opposed to repackaging the official builds, we may have problems using the official Firefox branding and artwork since it's not an official build released by the Firefox folks. The Firefox folks are strict enough with their position that Debian built a fork called IceWeasel, which does not use the official Firefox artwork and branding. Also, other folks who build Firefox from source for inclusion in a distribution use their own artwork so as not to run afoul of the Firefox folks. This is something we need to consider carefully.

Cheers,
John