VectorLinux

The Vectorian Lounge => The Lounge => Topic started by: nubcnubdo on December 25, 2007, 11:20:31 pm

Title: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: nubcnubdo on December 25, 2007, 11:20:31 pm
I would like to get a general idea of the release schedule for VL 5.9 SOHO and VL 6.0 Std, and I would also like a clue about why we put out 5.9 instead of just moving to 6.0. What will be the difference between 5.9 and 6.0? But mainly, I would like a few tentative dates about when VL 5.9 SOHO and VL 6.0 Std will be released.


Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: The Headacher on December 26, 2007, 01:33:45 am
Quote
I would also like a clue about why we put out 5.9 instead of just moving to 6.0.
That one IS a good question. With 5.9 being a completely new build (not based on 5.8 ), 6 would have been a more appropriate name. Even more so because 5.8 and 5.9 are not really compatible. Apparently the devs seem to think that 6 will not be too different from 5.9, just nicer and flashier. Then again the difference in version numbers between 5.8 and 5.9 (0.1) is just as big, but the distro is very different from a compatibility point of view.

Quote
But mainly, I would like a few tentative dates about when VL 5.9 SOHO and VL 6.0 Std will be released.
Questions like that have only one answer: "when it's ready".


Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: vector on December 26, 2007, 02:03:19 am
The big news for 6.0 was to be a gui installer. Well, that is stalled and maybe stalled forever I don't know. While waiting on the installer way to many new developments happened so I made the decision to go 5.9 even though it's a major upgrade to much of the base system. That may have been an error in judgment but to late now. To schedule our releases is impossible based on the size of our crew 5.9 soho is next and hopefully soon but we are going to wait on kde-4 for that.  So for version 6.0 to become a reality we really need to get some development people working on the gui installer...........thats all I have for the moment.

Vec
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: vector on December 26, 2007, 02:36:02 am
I am going to add this as a side note. Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers? accomplishing the goals we have set (gui installer etc) move up our popularity in distro rankings etc etc. Just a wild thought see what you guys think?

vec
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: easuter on December 26, 2007, 03:11:13 am
I am going to add this as a side note. Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers? accomplishing the goals we have set (gui installer etc) move up our popularity in distro rankings etc etc. Just a wild thought see what you guys think?

vec

Dunno, I've tried Debian and didn't stick with it long. I hate header segregation.
But I don't know if that would bring us any new developers, most of the Debian-centric devs are flocking to the *buntu distros.

On the instaler side, our GUI installer is going to be very unique  (haven't seen any design like it out there). Right now I'm sitting on uncommitted code for the installer that won't compile.  ::)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: tomh38 on December 26, 2007, 05:04:56 am
Quote
Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers?

(http://mostlycloudy.net/~dnl2ba/images/forum/please%20stop/vader-nooooo.jpg)

Sersiously, though, not my call since I'm not one of the developers.  A few questions though:  are the developers unhappy with the amount of work?  Are the developers and users unhappy with the pace of releases?  Does VL need to have a higher ranking on, say, Distrowatch?
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Freeman on December 26, 2007, 05:12:02 am
I like vectorlinux the way it is, by that I mean the slackware stability. Why would there be a need to change... more devs... hmmm.. I'd rather waith for a good superstable build of slack then more devs on a debian based system. If we wanted debian, we would be using Ubuntu don't ya think?
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Megamieuwsel on December 26, 2007, 07:10:39 am
Quote
Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers?

(http://mostlycloudy.net/~dnl2ba/images/forum/please%20stop/vader-nooooo.jpg)
Seonded.
VL being based on Slackware was what drew me in i the first place.
And what makes me stick to it....
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: nubcnubdo on December 26, 2007, 07:56:02 am
I appreciate VL for its Slackware qualities. Conversely, I didnt much like the Debian community (judgmental, bureaucratic). Debian Etch stable still retained the buggy xine engine 1.1.2, and required "upgrading" to Etch unstable to fix it.  The use of names for variations of Debian (eg., Sid, Sarge) is confusing to me, as I am terrible with names, making non-functional associations through names. Ubuntu-based Mint is getting bloated (redundant), it's slow (sluggish), and requires too much memory. (Try running Mint liveCD on 256 MB ram: sux) Could VL maintain its reputation and claim of lightning speed with a Debian base? Could a Debian-based VL be customized and optimized to work on older hardware? Any reduction or sacrifice of our low-end niche would be a mistake. I have never understood why VL plays second fiddle to Zenwalk on Distrowatch. Also, I personally don't need or want a gui installer.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: easuter on December 26, 2007, 08:09:12 am
Quote from: SuSE-Refugee
VL being based on Slackware was what drew me in i the first place.
And what makes me stick to it....

Aye!
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: uelsk8s on December 26, 2007, 09:48:01 am
I am going to add this as a side note. Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers? accomplishing the goals we have set (gui installer etc) move up our popularity in distro rankings etc etc. Just a wild thought see what you guys think?

vec

I know this was just a wild thought you were throwing out there, But I still find it alarming and insensitive.
IMO you would lose the majority of the current developers, and most of the users as well.
If you value what you will lose less than what you think you will gain I say Go for IT!


Uelsk8s
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: bigpaws on December 26, 2007, 10:02:28 am
Quote
Just a wild thought see what you guys think?

The rankings on DW are flawed.

IMHO it is much better to produce something that works and
has been tested for some time. Pressure from those that
demand changes for pure looks without reason does not
make sense. If there is something that works don't change it
until it is a fact that it always works. Then start to replace
the older things.

The main reason for Slackware and these types is that the
standard CLI tools work. If someone has an old book those
commands should work. Why punish those that are not able
to get the latest books. Is that not also part of the stay with
older hardware?

Just my thoughts.

Bigpaws
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: blurymind on December 26, 2007, 10:49:50 am
I am going to add this as a side note. Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers? accomplishing the goals we have set (gui installer etc) move up our popularity in distro rankings etc etc. Just a wild thought see what you guys think?

vec

a better web2 main website would be a good thing to do before releasing 6.  Ironing out the minor bugs,showing off vecs differences from other distros.

If you manage to attract developers from debian comunities to work on a vector-debian lightweight distro,it will be interesting to make a vector based off ubuntu or debian.Just look at how quickly linuxmint climbed the charts in therms of popularity,just by having some original ideas and cool looks ontop of a stable base.
I believe that it can be done,and it will definatelly attract new devs and users...but it should be done sepparatedly i think (other teams), but on one comunity. I actually believe that it would be interesting if it doesnt get in the way of vec-slack...and should keep vector's identity,but on another base and team. If there are two teams,both can help each other.That kind of interaction will help them both grow and would be very interesting to follow. There are not many debian based distros that are striving to be lightweight. I dont think that the new team needs to be big ,debian is a relatively stable base,but it does have its downsides-the reason i prefer vector or other slack-based distros.
Vec should be based on slack...but it will indeed be very interesting to see a version thats based on something else.It should have a different logo and name...but it must bear one identity,to bring fresh blood.

The idea of having two bases on a distro project is not new.I believe some other distros had recently did that,was it linuxmint? ::)

I too think DW ranks are not realistic. I cant get it- why pclinuxos is on top.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: M0E-lnx on December 26, 2007, 11:09:31 am

If you manage to attract developers from debian comunities to work on a vector-debian lightweight distro,it will be interesting to make a vector based off ubuntu or debian.

I for one, find that kind of hard to do... specially when you think about how the majority of debian and debian-based distros are. The developers and experienced users will tell you RTFM a few times before you can get an answer out of them, and the general users are almost like wind os users.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: exeterdad on December 26, 2007, 11:13:27 am
I know this was just a wild thought you were throwing out there, But I still find it alarming and insensitive.
IMO you would lose the majority of the current developers, and most of the users as well.
If you value what you will lose less than what you think you will gain I say Go for IT!

What are you doing in my head Uel?  ;)  I've no need to voice my opinion now as Uel nailed it.  Not that it's going to make any impact, but if Vectorlinux goes with a Debian base, I won't be aboard that train.  :-\
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on December 26, 2007, 11:18:25 am
I am going to add this as a side note. Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers?

Anecdote:

Yesterday, we got in a minor car crash. We happened to be near a gas station at the time, so we pulled in there and my dad recommended that my sister and I should go into the convenience store and get something to settle our nerves. I looked around for a while and even considered buying paper but eventually realized I wasn't really shaken by the accident and didn't want anything.

As I've learned: "If it ain't broke ..."

Maybe the demand and motivation for the GUI installer was not so great to complete it. The stable and fast text installer is a distinguishing feature of both Slack and Vector, IMO. (Although I'm still slightly disappointed that my corrections for vinstall were not merged in.  :-[)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: nubcnubdo on December 26, 2007, 11:19:14 am
Quote
a vector based off ubuntu or debian
I would miss being root  ;)

and, if VL 5.9 Std needs a little upgrade/tweak to say, VL 5.9.1 Std, let's slap 6.0 on it instead, and be done with it.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: newt on December 26, 2007, 11:26:29 am
Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers?
I believe this quote to be simply "trolling and flamebait" ;D
....it worked! ;)

good one, vec! :D
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: tomh38 on December 26, 2007, 11:28:31 am
Just in case I didn't make my feelings clear about a move to a debian base:

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c16/tomh38/vomit-smiley-011.gif?t=1198697119)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: vector on December 26, 2007, 12:50:55 pm
First let me say that I truly apologize if I alarmed or hurt anyones feelings with my playful post. That certainly was not my intention but I have been known to stick my foot in my mouth on more than one occasion............. ::)
We will certainly not be making a move to debian in my lifetime as I have been in that jungle before and it was not a pretty sight. However, the post did reveal that we do have a very dedicated group of slackers here all on the same train and to that I'm grateful. I would like some idea's as to how to better bring our superior product to the masses tho. It seems as of late that we and slackware for that matter are getting little coverage from the linux press. To that end another wild thought how about we rename VectorLinux to Vecubuntu and simply bill it out as the first ubuntu based on slackware.................lol. Again, to my loyal band of developers my apologies. This was only meant to get a little discussion going nothing I would ever seriously consider.

Cheers,
Vec
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: exeterdad on December 26, 2007, 12:57:52 pm
If I knew ya better and thought I could pull it off, I'd call ya a *bleep*  :D
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: tomh38 on December 26, 2007, 01:07:37 pm
ROFL, Vec

You really had me going  ...

You're right though in saying that Slackware and Slack-based distributions don't get enough attention.  In fact, as far as Linux goes it seems like all I ever hear about these days is Ubuntu.  I've probably said this before, but I know Windows users who haven't heard of Linux but who've heard of Ubuntu.  Sh*t floats.

I wish I knew how to get the word out.  Just about everybody I know who owns a computer either has VL on their machine or is tired of hearing me talk about how great it is.

If I think of anything I'll say so.  Until then, thanks for all the hard work and hang in there.

Tom
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Dweeberkitty on December 26, 2007, 01:16:23 pm
I would like some idea's as to how to better bring our superior product to the masses tho. It seems as of late that we and slackware for that matter are getting little coverage from the linux press.

1. We need a better website. The website is the first and many times the only thing that people come in contact with when looking for a distrobution. The website has to look polished, professional and give the appearance that we know what we are doing. As it is, the current website looks like a home-made job and most certainly turns people off.

2. What is the one thing, or set of things, that would compel a Linux user to switch from another distro to Vector? We should do some looking around, ask people and find out what the needs or wants are and then work to fill them.

3. Promote products such as the MMBD that are unique to VL. Show that they fill a real need and that they work. Hehe, of course I WOULD say that. BTW, I'm going to make a web page for it. Hopefully it'll bring some people to VL.

The answer to getting a better VL for the masses is by getting more users. More users bring more developers and more popularity. More popularity in turn brings more users which brings more developers which possibly means a better VL for the masses might be developed. That's the way I look at it. We need to advertise, promote and look for opportunities to gain a larger following of users.

Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: tomh38 on December 26, 2007, 01:22:34 pm
Hey ...

Maybe a name change would help!

Some possibilities:

01) Pornix
02) Viagrix
03) Cialix
04) Vectintosh
05) iVector
06) Tickle Me Vector
07) Vistix
08) Googlix
09) McDonlix
10) Vectoria's Secret
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: blurymind on December 26, 2007, 01:25:47 pm
yes ,the website. I still have no idea if there is any (fat?) chance any of the mock-ups i did will be considered as an option. Another thing is that i need somebody who is skilled in web programming and can put functionality on the beautiful crayon drawing.The graphics are really no sweat for me,but for sure people will like this or that- some will want a change here,others will not- so different tastes influence a struggle of ideas.

What i would love to see changed- colors,logo,navigation,organisation,functionality- almost everything. I'm going to produce more graphics if i have the hope for that change.

On the meantime,i can't promise you that,but a certain user of this board ( "Telemaniaka") has the skill to put a good code (as he already did at http://www.garbagewars.com ) which is using the same forum system and has integrations with the forum (try to sign up and see for yourselves)... i will try to talk him into helping me.

you can also change not the name,but vector's logo (the planet). On that note,would it be bold to start a thread with ideas and mockups? There are not many artists at our comunity,and the art forum is kind of silent. :(
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: JJSH on December 26, 2007, 03:15:57 pm
Can I just say, I'm glad we are waiting for KDE4 before SOHO 5.9 ~ makes sense to me.

On another point, do we really need a graphical installer? I would say yes. OK, I grew up installing OS's where you did the install then worried about the GUI, or had Windows NT where pretty much the same thing happened, but most younger users, perhaps happy with most aspects of XP, may never have seen one, and looking at Vectors' install screen shots may have them move on and not get any further, which would be a shame because as a distro it rocks. OK, eventually, they will need to get down and dirty with a terminal or text based menu system, but lets hook them first!  ;)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: bigpaws on December 26, 2007, 09:21:40 pm
Look a Ubuntu Gutsy apparently there are some
problems with that version. At least that is what I
have read.

Becoming Ubuntu is not possible not close to as much
man power of Ubuntu.

Stay steady and grow. Continue with small hardware
requirements and also mention that most of the old
linux books that you can get a discount store will
work.

Vector Linux does not mean expensive to own or
run.

One thing that you can say about Slackware is that it
runs and runs well. Stay on that track. Introducing new
things without taking time to test will leave a bad taste
for a new user.

Bigpaws
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: nubcnubdo on December 26, 2007, 10:13:06 pm
If we want Slackware devs, does it not make sense that we (some of us representing VL) should be hanging out where Slackware enthusiasts work and play. VectorLinux needs an inviting presence on Slackware-related sites. That would include Zenwalk, SLAX, Absolute, Ultimate, NimbleX, AliXe, and Wolvix as well. Some of those endeavors strike me as self-educational, and candidate for absorption into a larger organization. Wolvix, for instance: What does Wolvix do that VL doesnt do? It seems redundant to me. If we were open to a VectorLinux Lite edition, we could absorb Wolvix and maybe
NimbleX.

Question: Could VL tolerate a name change in order to accommodate and incorporate other Slack distros?

The mountain comes to Mohammed
Start an organization: Association of Slackware-based Distributions. Set up a website and formally invite the various leaders to join and make a presence. From there, cultivate a pool of Slackware devs on call/for hire. When communities and leaders see the similarities of the various Slackware distros, the strength of our collective eforts, they may be more inclined to unite in a common cause.

We should pick and choose to find a great mini-PC, make an alliance with the manufacturer, bend over backwards to get VL installed on it and associated with it. Then promote this little box like PCLOS fanboys on crack. I mean, that's what Zonbu Zonbox is for Gentoo, Koolu for Ubuntu.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: metvas on December 26, 2007, 11:12:28 pm
If you take a look at what folks say about us (Vector) when they decide to install it...should tell you the whole story. I heard a guy say by accident the funniest thing," patience is a virgin"...a slip not really meant. I think Vec was just kidding around. No, make that, I am sure he was just kidding around. Gui or 64 who knows what should be next?
regards
Darrell
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: carsten on December 27, 2007, 04:24:39 am
Happy X-Mas and so on  8),
just my point to this topic:

Why change the base of Vector? It is working and a lot of work would go down the gutter when replacing the fundament.
And for what reason  ??? ? Than Vector is competiting with all the *buntus (Vebuntu, the new distro  ;D )
Of course have the people making their living from Vector all the right to make such strategic decisions, but I think this is the wrong approach (hell, I changed to Vector when Mandrake lost itself to be Mandriva  >:( and I had spent some real money to have always the latest version).
It is better to be the leader of the pack in Slackware Country than running with the crowd in Debian Space.
If it goes to produce more revenues or attraction the proposal to make more co-operation or take-overs with other Slack-Distros stands for a better strategy.
Let Vector become the most proffesional SOHO and still "Light and Easy" Slack-offspring.
Tip: foccus on compability with Laptop and Notebooks, especially Wireless should go out of the box.
And according to my understanding the installer is "graphically" enough, you can actually use the mouse. So just change the IBM-style blue background and menu borders to something more charming  :-* and you have won a good deal of attractiveness. The functionallity is already top-notch .
Happy Gnu Year,
Carsten
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: nightflier on December 27, 2007, 06:12:33 am
Wow, I'm gone a week and miss a lot!

Others have already forcefully stated what are also my opinions, so just for the tally:

- I like the Slackware base
- I don't care if my distro does not achieve world domination
- I am perfectly happy with a text installer
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: rbistolfi on December 27, 2007, 06:13:14 am
I think not every distro can be as big as Ubuntu, Suse, Fedora, etc. There is not enough market for all of them. I suspect the number of active projects will decrease in a future. For that reason, imho, vl should not attemp to compite with those distros or attemp to become one of them. So stay small. Hence, if you not sell quantity as Ubuntu, you have to sell quality, and try to find your place in the market.
We have seen this topic before, and the brainstorm is too big. We should focus and establish a few, short term goals and try to reach them.
May be the first one should be to remake the website. Ok, if that is what we need, lets focus on that, or something else, but needs to be one thing or two, because the forces for more are missing. Little steps.
My 2 cents:
In little companies a very important thing is to stay very well organized. I read Linus don't contribute for the kernel anymore, but writes code for Git. The management and organization is as much important as the project it self. We don't know if more developers will show up. Perhaps the way to go is to find a way of maximize the current forces. I am thinking at loud, but may be some kind of collaborative web site, when everybody could see the structure of the project, the goals, the intermediate task, what is needed, what is done and what is missing, etc; could help. Even in that way a more flexible system of collaboration and contribution can be implemented. In that way temporary and occasional contributors could help in minor tasks and give the main devs more time for working in the big things.

- Find related services to offer, such as Darrell support project. Special installations and configurations, networking, I don't know. Perhaps try to find a local partner for, for example, distribute / install ready to use CRM, CMS and other management tools for small / medium size companies.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: MikeCindi on December 27, 2007, 07:54:19 am
[monologue]
Amazing...all of this from a few simple questions. The release of 5.8 Gold was just before Christmas 2006. A year between "major" releases is not unreasonable IMHO but if the purpose it to grow the VL user base then that timing would be much too long. I don't know how to get more developers in the mix as I know very few linux users personally (I don't think I've met anyone from this forum before) and none have the technical abilities for that task (self included). If users that have developer abilities are wanted then greater exposure for VL is needed.

Zenwalk releases something every week it seems so they stay visible on DW. Thus their ranking continues to be in the top 20. If VL is looking for DW popularity then posting something "new", regardless of anything really changing (i.e. form without substance), would fix that. (We missed some opportunities with the betas and RCs of 5.9.)

Am I personally (FWIW to others) willing to wait? Well, I haven't gone anywhere since 5.1. (I started with 4.3 but had a run with SuSE 9.x and several dozen other short-lived tastings of others.) So, YES I'm not going anywhere anytime soon (unless VL dies).

As for the financial profitability of VL...my limited exposure to various linux communities (including this one) is that "free", in every sense of the term, is expected (as opposed to valued). (Yes, I know that there are some very popular commercial distros but they are much different from the most popular "distro" - Microsoft. If they charged for every package that was "extra" like MS does then they would not be so popular.) It is very difficult to be financially competitive in the OS market. While I believe VL is a superior rendering of the linux OS I'm not so sure that the OS market has the same opinion.

As I have said since my very early posts as a VL user this community is what makes VL great. The product will attract users (given enough exposure) but the community is what will keep them. Perhaps that is what VL should be enhancing.
[/monologue]
Mike
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: lagagnon on December 27, 2007, 08:27:22 am
In my opinion, for what it is worth, I feel this way about VL6:

1) keep Slackware base for sure. At any rate we could not hope to compete with *Ubun*, Mepix, Debian, Mint, etc, etc,
2) a GUI installer is not important to me. In fact, I think a fully GUI VASM would bring more users to the fold. However, that requires a very dedicated experienced developer working many hours. I wish I could help but I do not have those skills.
3) in the developer's world release of a major number (ie jump from VL5 to 6) usually means a significant improvement, so I fully understand vec's use of VL5.9. IMHO VL6 really should include a revised VASM, KDE4 and a GUI installer. That is a lot of development work, so maybe one year from now is not too far off the mark!
4) I am happy to be running VL5.8 SOHO and VL5.9 now. I am not in any great rush for VL6. I fail to understand this incredible desire to always be releasing new versions. I actually can't believe we're discussing this only a few days after the release of VL5.9 ???
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: nubcnubdo on December 27, 2007, 09:03:40 am
Despite the fact that the long cycle isnt very exciting, I like the one-year release schedule. Take Mint: just when I get used to a release, out comes a new one, it's very disconcerting. The regularity, the stability, the slow steady progress, the quiet excellence are what makes VL an outstanding distro. Unfortunately, those qualities don't excite. It would be nice to do something unique and novel to bring attention to VL. VL just works, and works great, but that doesn't make headlines.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: uelsk8s on December 27, 2007, 09:28:25 am
It is very frustrating feeling like you are part of the best OS and wondering why the rest of the world doesn't know about it.
there are some important things that need to be worked out, and I think the community here need to influence them as much as possible.
1)The costs of running VL are increasing and the cd sales are shrinking.
   what are your ideas that can help VL make money (and still remain free)?
2)We feel we are suffering from lack of developers.
  how can we attract developers (or possibly turn more users into devs)?
3)The Vectorlinux.com website doesnt say "I need to download VL and give it a try"
  what can we do to the website to make people want to try VL and join our community?
4) Feel free to add to my questions  :)

This is just an idea floating around my brain. let me know what you think of it. 

I would like to see us move to a monthly release schedule.
5.9.1 would be released at the end of january, 5.9.2 the end of February and so on.
they would be released as downloadable  ISO's delta's and would be the same as doing a slapt-get --upgrade using only the patches repo.
they would stop around Sept, or Oct when the first Beta of the next version would be released.

Thanks,
Uelsk8s
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: M0E-lnx on December 27, 2007, 09:48:41 am
I like the idea of more frequent releases, however, I dont feel we have the man power to do it... I mean... not to put the ISO out, but what I really mean is, I dont think that's enough time to test a whole lot in a month's period.

I like the idea of being able to do a slapt-get --upgrade using the patches repo... I think that would be nice.
Have to agree with the website point.
I say add some nice screen shots (or links to them).
Find or make a system performance comparison ( VL -vs- Another distro)
I'm not much of a sales man, but that's exactly what we need... a website that can sell VL.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Dweeberkitty on December 27, 2007, 09:59:17 am
I would like to see us move to a monthly release schedule.
5.9.1 would be released at the end of january, 5.9.2 the end of February and so on.
they would be released as downloadable  ISO's delta's and would be the same as doing a slapt-get --upgrade using only the patches repo.
they would stop around Sept, or Oct when the first Beta of the next version would be released.

Cool, I like that idea! But, there's just a few things that would have to be worked out. Are there enough devs to release both STD and SOHO at the end of each month? What about when a huge upgrade comes along (Slackware 13 etc...)? I'm sure some people would object because it doesn't follow the Slackware, "It's ready when it's ready." However, to ensure that it IS ready at the end of each month, the devs would have to control the number of things that change each release. Other than that, I really like the idea!
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: easuter on December 27, 2007, 10:03:44 am
Dunno if a monthly release would be good...
We started working on VL 5.8.6 and it got dropped at beta stage because the work on 5.8 SOHO and on 5.9 was drawing too many resources....

On the money side of things, how about a fund-raiser?
We set a goal for the amount of money we need to raise, and a list of what its needed for.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: rbistolfi on December 27, 2007, 10:21:34 am
It is very frustrating feeling like you are part of the best OS and wondering why the rest of the world doesn't know about it.
there are some important things that need to be worked out, and I think the community here need to influence them as much as possible

We understand the frustration and I personally share it, as a user who see the work and effort of the devs.
 
Quote
1)The costs of running VL are increasing and the cd sales are shrinking.
   what are your ideas that can help VL make money (and still remain free)?

I think Deluxe is not being promoted enough. It needs more exposure, and I like the idea of offering related services. A website makeover should include more exposure for deluxe.

Quote
2)We feel we are suffering from lack of developers.
  how can we attract developers (or possibly turn more users into devs)?

Releasing vl especific documentation for developers could be a good idea. I think newcomers whiling to help couldn't know where to start. What is needed and which skills are needed is not clear. The first step imho, is to delegate minor tasks, as menu configuration for the diff desktops, and perhaps the hole SKEL is the next step. Some guidelines and a thread for collaborative work, as the current website thread where the ideas are being exposed, could be good. I cant believe Vec was being the webmaster, for example. That is something the community, or a team as Vec suggested once, could do.

Quote
3)The Vectorlinux.com website doesnt say "I need to download VL and give it a try"
  what can we do to the website to make people want to try VL and join our community?

Blurymind took the iniciative already, but the thread is not much alive now.

Quote
I would like to see us move to a monthly release schedule.
5.9.1 would be released at the end of january, 5.9.2 the end of February and so on.
they would be released as downloadable  ISO's delta's and would be the same as doing a slapt-get --upgrade using only the patches repo.

I think that is a good idea. Of course they will be not major upgrades, but Mike made an excellent point about DW. Maybe adding an entry in vasm with the necessary commands to upgrade is better than gslapt. In that way we could be sure only the patches repo is enabled.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: exeterdad on December 27, 2007, 12:09:24 pm
Quote
Maybe adding an entry in vasm with the necessary commands to upgrade is better than gslapt. In that way we could be sure only the patches repo is enabled.
Oooooooh!  I like that.  Or something like it anyway.  Forcing Gslapt to only pay attention to one repo (patches) for major upgrades would be a pain, and most likely have to be done in the C sources. 

Not long ago I was toying with an idea for a bash script that would run in the background.  It would check a repo of choice every couple hours or whatever.   Then it could use zenity dialogs, or the alert in the system tray letting the user know there is something new for them to consider.  Adding another function, or helper script to do a upgrade from patches using tools that are already included in VL wouldn't be that hard.

Should I put more though into this?  Would it be useful?

Vec shaking the branches a bit sure brought a ton of ideas out didn't it?  :D
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: uelsk8s on December 27, 2007, 12:44:07 pm
exeterdad,
we can manipulate the slapt-getrc to show only 1 repo. it is currently being done in the last MMBD.

for update notification there is already this http://software.jaos.org/#slapt-update-notifier
slapt-update-notifier is a daemon which notifies about package updates available via slapt-get and gslapt. It is modeled after the Ubuntu update-notifier. slapt-update-notifier places an icon in the user's notification area when updates are available. Clicking the icon starts upgrading with gslapt.

Vec had to get us thinking somehow  LOL
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: exeterdad on December 27, 2007, 01:48:52 pm
Cool about the slapt-update-notifier. No sense in re inventing the wheel.  I guess I'm not getting how showing one repo in the slapt-getrc is going to let people use slapt-get or gslapt get packages out of extra or testing though? It's probably something trivial that's gonna make me feel like a bonehead right?  :D
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: uelsk8s on December 27, 2007, 01:58:38 pm
Cool about the slapt-update-notifier. No sense in re inventing the wheel.  I guess I'm not getting how showing one repo in the slapt-getrc is going to let people use slapt-get or gslapt get packages out of extra or testing though? It's probably something trivial that's gonna make me feel like a bonehead right?  :D

The way i think it would be doe is you have a script called update or something. it replaces the users slapt-getrc with one that has only patches enabled then runs slapt-get --update and slapt-get --upgrade then replaces the users slapt-getrc.
I am pretty sure thats how its done in MMBD.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: exeterdad on December 27, 2007, 02:04:08 pm
I feel better that it wasn't a obvious setting or something.  Very clever.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Dweeberkitty on December 27, 2007, 02:07:54 pm
Cool about the slapt-update-notifier. No sense in re inventing the wheel.  I guess I'm not getting how showing one repo in the slapt-getrc is going to let people use slapt-get or gslapt get packages out of extra or testing though? It's probably something trivial that's gonna make me feel like a bonehead right?  :D

The way i think it would be doe is you have a script called update or something. it replaces the users slapt-getrc with one that has only patches enabled then runs slapt-get --update and slapt-get --upgrade then replaces the users slapt-getrc.
I am pretty sure thats how its done in MMBD.


You are right, that's how I did it. It works well too.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: rbistolfi on December 27, 2007, 03:32:59 pm
hmmm, I prefer a script available for the user via vasm (even if it just launch gslapt with just patches enabled) than a daemon running in the background to notify an upgrade here and there.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: rbistolfi on December 27, 2007, 03:48:26 pm
I installed it. Looks like it uses around 8mb of mem. I am not sure how it works, could any packager to upgrade one package to test it? :D
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Megamieuwsel on December 28, 2007, 01:39:38 am
Hey ...

Maybe a name change would help!

Some possibilities:

01) Pornix
02) Viagrix
03) Cialix
04) Vectintosh
05) iVector
06) Tickle Me Vector
07) Vistix
08) Googlix
09) McDonlix
10) Vectoria's Secret
Brilliant!
Were I still in charge here, you'd so have the custom-title "Wordsmithling" slapped on your account.....
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: The Headacher on December 28, 2007, 02:04:59 am
Quote
The way i think it would be doe is you have a script called update or something. it replaces the users slapt-getrc with one that has only patches enabled then runs slapt-get --update and slapt-get --upgrade then replaces the users slapt-getrc.
Don't touch my slapt-getrc!!! Use  the --config option instead (see "man slapt-get").

So first we disable the "upgrade" function in gslapt, and now we're going to look into a deamon that notifies of updates?? Sorry guys, but that's one of the silliest things I've heard in this thread. Perhaps we should have a good long think about a policy to the whole update/upgrade thing, rather than doing whatever we feel like just because we feel like it.
Quote
Looks like it uses around 8mb of mem.
What a waste of memory....
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: exeterdad on December 28, 2007, 05:20:07 am
We were just exploring ways of "selective" upgrading in case more frequent, and smaller releases became a reality.  What would you suggest?  ;)

Edit:  Just wanted to add that not everyone is concerned about a extra daemon, or a bit more memory used.  Many have robust machines that would never notice.  I'm sure there is a percentage of users that we have, or may have in the future that will find this sort of thing comforting.  And surely the devs wouldn't set it up in a way that it couldn't be easily enabled/disabled.

My specs are pretty humble on this machine, and in all my installs it's rare that I bother disabling all the extra doo-dads that VL see's fit to have running by default.  I can't even remember the last I've bothered to actually hook up my printer, and Cups is always running.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Freston on December 28, 2007, 07:44:07 am
Reading this thread I can't help wondering, how many people actually do use Vector for what it's best for? (I refer here to the SOHO edition.) There is no real serious other distro that advertises itself as focused on the small office, home office segment of the market AFAIK.

What might be failing to attract these kinds of users is an affordable and available professional way to install a networked system for these kinds of users. There is no real 'do-it-yourself' mentality as far as networked systems are concerned in that area of the market. What small office can afford to have a systems administrator? What small office employee knows about setting up security? And who knows how to maximize functionality under stringent security rules? Not your average desktop user. Nor your average small office employee.

Come with that, that everyone knows how to safe a Word document, and nobody has heard of OOo. Integrating spreadsheet data in MS-Word?? Who has mastered that is not likely to ever change horses.

In business, you don't want change :panic: but dependability and predictability. My bet, you never saw an add asking for someone experienced with OOo Calc. You should realize that you _are_ competing with a well known software company on this one. But at a disadvantage, because Vector isn't a household name. If they don't know you, they're not buying. Or in the immortal words of someone interviewed about the effect of marketing:"I don't pay attention to commercials, I just buy the well known products".


On the upside: Vector _is_ better than it's main competitor.


---
On a personal note, I use Vector in my professional home office.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: The Headacher on December 28, 2007, 09:08:25 am
We were just exploring ways of "selective" upgrading in case more frequent, and smaller releases became a reality.  What would you suggest? ;)
Just don't. Look at how much effort 2 releases (standard and soho) a year takes. Distro upgrading is THE way to break everything. I'd rather have an extra test partition and install from an .iso / cd than having to upgrade and risk my perfectly working install. Also, a distro is more than a selection of packages.
 
Quote
Edit:  Just wanted to add that not everyone is concerned about a extra daemon, or a bit more memory used.  Many have robust machines that would never notice.  I'm sure there is a percentage of users that we have, or may have in the future that will find this sort of thing comforting. 
And that's how every distro becomes bloated... It can be applied to pretty much every service.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: rbistolfi on December 28, 2007, 10:36:08 am
I have to agree with The Headacher on this one. Take a look to your htop. Around 150mb of memory is used after boot. Most of the process dont uses more than 1% of mem. Is the sum of little process how a system becomes bloated. In the other hand, is not about older / newer hardware. Is about efficency and simplicity. Even if I could have the faster box on Earth, I prefer to be noticed in the forum, or just not be noticed, than having a daemon. In my third hand  ::), the objetive of a faster development cycle is just get more publicity at Dw.

Quote
Looks like it uses around 8mb of mem.
What a waste of memory....

I am courious about how the icon looks :)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on December 28, 2007, 11:10:00 am
Hey ...

Maybe a name change would help!

Some possibilities:

01) Pornix
...
10) Vectoria's Secret
Brilliant!
Were I still in charge here, you'd so have the custom-title "Wordsmithling" slapped on your account.....

Maybe we should take a page from Pepsi and offer users the refreshing new taste of 'Crystal Vector'.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: BlueMage on December 28, 2007, 12:19:53 pm
On a personal note, I use Vector in my professional home office.

I used it on-site for an R&D firm as their engineer.  I also used it as my base of operations for maintaining network health and security.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: GrannyGeek on December 29, 2007, 10:47:11 pm
I don't want to see more frequent releases. In fact, I think Linux releases come out too often. An updated version of VectorLinux every couple of years would be plenty for me.

Couldn't users simply disable everything but the patches repository for a gslapt round every month or two and install those that are relevant to them?

I agree that a major overhaul of the vectorlinux Web site is needed.

A Debian-based VL? Eeeeek!! I like using a Slackware-based distro. I've tried other distros but I've never found one I like as well as VL.

I don't think DistroWatch rankings mean much. A distro with lots of users may get a high rating simply because there are more users to go to DistroWatch and click on their distro.

I don't understand the buzz over Ubuntu. I don't think it is easier to use than other distros and I don't like how it uses sudo when it should be using su.

I'm perfectly content with VL's text installer. I don't see why developers' time should be wasted on coming up with a graphical installer. There are things that could be done to improve the text installer, such as having context-sensitive help available throughout. The partitioning section is what would be hardest for a real newbie, though I'm not sure a graphical partitioning tool makes it all that much easier.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: hata_ph on December 30, 2007, 12:25:25 am
I'm perfectly content with VL's text installer. I don't see why developers' time should be wasted on coming up with a graphical installer. There are things that could be done to improve the text installer, such as having context-sensitive help available throughout. The partitioning section is what would be hardest for a real newbie, though I'm not sure a graphical partitioning tool makes it all that much easier.
--GrannyGeek

I agree with it 100% :)
I try install FreeBSD/PCBSD once and I found out that it got a wizard mode to prepare the HDD/partition for installation. Is there a way we can create the same option for VL??
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: easuter on December 30, 2007, 03:05:22 am
Quote
I try install FreeBSD/PCBSD once and I found out that it got a wizard mode to prepare the HDD/partition for installation. Is there a way we can create the same option for VL??

This and a lot more is being developed in the graphical installer.
I can assure you that the graphical installer will not be a dumbing down like most distros do. You will have the option to "auto-install", which is very useful on a fresh hard-drive (swap and root drives are automatically created and all packages are installed).
Then there is the "advanced" mode, where you can select pre-made partitions, create new ones with GParted, and customize the package selection.
And at the same time, we are keeping it lighter and faster than any of the other graphical installers of the "big" distros. My dev box is an old computer, so the code has to run fast on mine otherwise I don't commit it (a selfish reason, I know, but good for everyone) ;).
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: hata_ph on December 30, 2007, 03:25:14 am
Quote
I try install FreeBSD/PCBSD once and I found out that it got a wizard mode to prepare the HDD/partition for installation. Is there a way we can create the same option for VL??

This and a lot more is being developed in the graphical installer.
I can assure you that the graphical installer will not be a dumbing down like most distros do. You will have the option to "auto-install", which is very useful on a fresh hard-drive (swap and root drives are automatically created and all packages are installed).
Then there is the "advanced" mode, where you can select pre-made partitions, create new ones with GParted, and customize the package selection.
And at the same time, we are keeping it lighter and faster than any of the other graphical installers of the "big" distros. My dev box is an old computer, so the code has to run fast on mine otherwise I don't commit it (a selfish reason, I know, but good for everyone) ;).

Nice...it will be a good news for any Linux new comer to try out Linux especially VL. :)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: jduped on December 31, 2007, 12:42:01 am
I know its been said a few times in this thread, The reason I picked Vector was because of its Slackware roots.  If we don't get slack, we get nothing... :P

Any who, I was wondering what I could learn to make myself a viable contributor to Vector, I have lots of IT experience, not so much programing...but If some one wants to point me into something to learn and then come back to offer my assistance, I'd be all for it.

I'm going to be in school (apprentice electrician) for a few months and I should still have a decent amount of spare time...I really enjoy vector and would be willing to give that time up for the cause.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: exeterdad on December 31, 2007, 04:41:17 am
We can ALWAYS use packagers.  :)  It's a good way to get your feet wet and be valuable immediately. We only have a handful of packagers for all that is out there.  And you may think of interesting apps we haven't even heard of yet.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: jduped on December 31, 2007, 05:07:52 am
I made taught myself how to make tgz packages...I'm not quite sure what I need to do to make the vector specific ones...my current install of vector is pooched, I'm using the windows partition currently, and I finally caved and ordered a new video card for my desktop, so I won't be reloading it till I get that going...

I am also in the process of switching my server to a linux box, and I want to do it with vector I'm just still planning out the logistics...the server has just been cut, and I'm ready for an os...just pondering what would be the easiest to use...
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Kocil on December 31, 2007, 02:04:59 pm
I am going to add this as a side note. Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers? accomplishing the goals we have set (gui installer etc) move up our popularity in distro rankings etc etc. Just a wild thought see what you guys think?

vec

Well, I've being assigned as the head of IGOS Center (Indonesia, go open source) for about 2 months.
(The web site is here www.igoscenter.org, but it is in Indonesian language. Sorry)

During that short periode,
the rough estimation shows that more than 50% of my technical support volunters are UBUNTU people.
Moreover, more than 80% of the CD / DVD sales has being UBUNTU.
At my outlet, 8 out of 10 computers are installed with UBUNTU.


Still, me myself and one of the most skilled technician have not swayed.
Slackware is the most STABLE and PURE distro.

At least, we still help people no matter what distro he/she is using
in Slackware ways ... go CLI  ;D


Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: LLL on January 02, 2008, 04:55:46 pm
Well, I've being assigned as the head of IGOS Center (Indonesia, go open source) for about 2 months.
(The web site is here www.igoscenter.org, but it is in Indonesian language. Sorry)

--> Also available in English: http://www.igoscenter.org/index.php?newlang=english

Though I feel like a wanker for throwing in $.02 after a long absence (new job), here it is - grab a penny from the dish if you feel you need change:

1) Release timing:
- A solid product with significant improvements is worth waiting for.
- STD at Jan-1, followed by SOHO June-1, followed by STD Jan-1, etc. would be a nice balance.
- Slower release may be not as popular with some tinker-happy Linux fans (though maybe it is).
- What do other big players do? Apple for instance? (We all know what Windows does, releasing alphas to the public).

2) Website is in need of work. This point has been made in the past.
- Some other GNU products have had their sites re-done with the "Try Me" pizzazz and "I'm Legit" professionalism that people speak of.
- http://gimp.org/ and http://www.flock.com/ for example.
- www.vectorlinux.com could use a facelift, simplification (navigation options, etc.) and depth of content, remembering that a picture speaks a thousand words.
- And also: I think copy should be written by a non-dev, or a dev that remembers what it's like to have the understanding of a newbie again. I remember seeing "x86 platform" and thinking "Huh?", despite being a Winblows power-user.

NOTE THAT SITE HAS HAD AN UPDATE, seemingly as I typed this!!! ;)
Improved for sure, but still a ways to go. If web-re-writes are in order, shout. I'll do my best to help out. (Come to think of it, I did a rewrite of Club Vec over a year ago, but it never made it online.)

Had a chance to try 5.9 this weekend - my first tinker in months - and greatly enjoyed, though my 5.8 install is still far too functional to give up yet!

Thanks to all for their dedication to creating a phenomenal OS. Though my forum-time has dwindled hugely, I'm still VL all the way - nothing comes close to matching it.

All the best,

LLL
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: toothandnail on January 03, 2008, 12:41:54 am
As a relative newcomer to Vector (I tried it a couple of years ago, didn't like it much at the time, moved on, came back recently and find it much more to my taste now), the thing I find most annoying is the difficulty in finding new or updated packages.

Maybe I'm missing something, but slapt-get and Gslapt don't come close to meeting my needs. I've tried various 'views'. but find it very difficult to find updates to existing packages, other than by searching (which means I need to have some idea of which packages have been updated). There also seems to be no easy way of finding packages that have been newly added to the repositories.

While the Zenwalk Netpkg is a long way from perfect, it gives me a quick way of finding updated packages, an easy way of listing new or uninstalled packages, plus it shows me what category each package comes from.

As one effort to get round the problem, I installed the slapt-update-notifier, but so far I've failed to get it to work. There are no indications in the docs how it should be started. Attempting to start it from the command line gets me an error:

Code: [Select]
libnotify-Message: Unable to get session bus: Did not receive a reply.
Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply,
the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout
expired, or the network connection was broken.

I am finding 5.9 stable, fast and well put together (though I find it strange that Gimp was installed through the whole beta cycle but doesn't seem to have made it to the final release). In a number of respects, it meet my needs better than Zenwalk (support for my wireless card out of the box, support for HPFS, etc.), but for me, the biggest area for improvement would be in package handling. I would hope that this area is given priority in development for the 6.x series..

paul
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on January 03, 2008, 01:39:52 am
Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

(JMO)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: The Headacher on January 03, 2008, 01:42:10 am
Quote from: L[sup]3[/sup]
- STD at Jan-1, followed by SOHO June-1, followed by STD Jan-1, etc. would be a nice balance.
I still prefer a release when ready. No need to rush things. Rushing leads to poor products.

Quote from: L[sup]3[/sup]
- Slower release may be not as popular with some tinker-happy Linux fans (though maybe it is).
Now who needs to use it? Others, or people who have been using it for a long time? Releasing more often just to have a new release more often is just fooling yourself (and perhaps a few distro hoppers, but they'll hop along anyways), at the cost of your own free time. I STILL don't understand why people keep trying to change the near-perfect (for my uses) VL into something of an abberation. Sure, it's OK to hope to attract those illusive users, but let's not forget there are already lot's of 'm that like VL as is.
Quote from: L[sup]3[/sup]
I'm still VL all the way - nothing comes close to matching it.
Agreed ;).

Quote from: toothandnail
the thing I find most annoying is the difficulty in finding new or updated packages.
Since VL 5.9 is new, there still aren't as much packages available as we'd like, but then again only infinite will do :-\. The update function in gslapt has been disabled on purpose. People kept running into trouble when blindly upgrading.

Quote
(though I find it strange that Gimp was installed through the whole beta cycle but doesn't seem to have made it to the final release).
Agreed, that one was a real sloppy mistake IMO. It was probably done to free some space on the iso for something else, but I can't imagine what that might be.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: toothandnail on January 03, 2008, 01:56:40 am
Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

 ;D Well, yes and no. In many instances, updates are security related (look at all the recent Firefox/Seamonkey updates), in which case they're anything but frivolous.

In other areas, possibly. But if you don't try the latest and greatest, how will anything ever get developed?  ;D

I've been building Zenwalk packages for a while, and intend to do the same with Vector once I work out the rules. So I can create many of my own updates. In fact I'm using a few of my Zenwalk packages on Vector without problems.

But that doesn't mitigate the fact that handling of updates (whether security related or just the latest thing which has to be had..) is one of Vectors weakest points.

Quote
(JMO)

And IMHO as well...  ;D

paul
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: toothandnail on January 03, 2008, 02:17:06 am

Quote from: toothandnail
the thing I find most annoying is the difficulty in finding new or updated packages.
Since VL 5.9 is new, there still aren't as much packages available as we'd like, but then again only infinite will do :-\. The update function in gslapt has been disabled on purpose. People kept running into trouble when blindly upgrading.

 8) Of course only infinite will do... Seriously, I can well understand that there aren't too many packages migrated to 5.9, and that doesn't worry me a great deal. What I do find off-putting is the fact that no matter what I try, Gslapt will show a confusing array of installed plus older plus newer packages. Maybe I've been using Netpkg for too long, but IMHO, it does a much better job of showing users what is available, and what has been updated or downgraded.

In many ways I'm glad the update function in Gslapt has been disabled (though it would be better if the toolbar could be updated to reflect that, rather than having a bubble message telling users when they try to use the function). I found it less than useful - while it would show the updates in a reasonably coherent form, it didn't give me any ability to select which updates to apply - it was always pretty much all or nothing. Poor design, IMHO.

I would like to see Vector have a simple way for users to see what packages have been updated or are newly added to the repos, and a simple way of selecting those they want. At present, it doesn't seem to have anything that does that.

Quote
Quote
(though I find it strange that Gimp was installed through the whole beta cycle but doesn't seem to have made it to the final release).
Agreed, that one was a real sloppy mistake IMO. It was probably done to free some space on the iso for something else, but I can't imagine what that might be.

 ;D I'm glad I'm not the only one then. 5.9 is one of the few full featured distros that doesn't include Gimp as standard. And its a fair size download for those who are limited to slow internet connections, so it does seem a pity that it isn't included.

Something else that needs attention before 6.x comes out is the way Mplayer is handled. In 5.9 it has been set as an optional item. Since I'm not exactly fond of it, I didn't bother installing it during the 5.9 betas. But, since the streaming media support for web browsers (well, Seamonkey at least, and I assume others) uses the Mplayer plugins, it should not be an optional install. The plugins depend on the base package being installed, or they don't work. Well, that's my experience anyway...

Also, if Mplayer is to be an optional install, the multimedia entries in Settings > Removable drives and media need to be modified - currently Mplayer is specified as the handler for DVDs. Not only is that questionable since the version of Mplayer installed doesn't handle DVD menus, its pretty useless if a user has opted not to install Mplayer in the first place.

paul.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on January 03, 2008, 02:55:03 am
Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

 ;D Well, yes and no. In many instances, updates are security related (look at all the recent Firefox/Seamonkey updates), in which case they're anything but frivolous.

I can't speak for everyone, but I have never been h4x0r3d with any Gecko browser. Firefox crashes of its own accord ... I consider that whole family of software a virus unto itself. :P
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: toothandnail on January 03, 2008, 03:34:06 am
Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

 ;D Well, yes and no. In many instances, updates are security related (look at all the recent Firefox/Seamonkey updates), in which case they're anything but frivolous.

I can't speak for everyone, but I have never been h4x0r3d with any Gecko browser. Firefox crashes of its own accord ... I consider that whole family of software a virus unto itself. :P

Neither have I. However, anyone handling even vaguely sensitive data via the web is not likely to want to take the chance. And the Mozilla family are a long way from the only things that need security related updates.

I try to avoid Firefox (never found it all that stable, and I don't like the way it has been dumbed down), but I can't say I've had any stabilty issues with Seamonkey - and that's on three different platforms - Linux, OS/2 and (yuck) XP.

paul
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Triarius Fidelis on January 03, 2008, 03:49:01 am
Thanks for the advice. :)
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: GrannyGeek on January 03, 2008, 10:24:13 pm
What I do find off-putting is the fact that no matter what I try, Gslapt will show a confusing array of installed plus older plus newer packages. Maybe I've been using Netpkg for too long, but IMHO, it does a much better job of showing users what is available, and what has been updated or downgraded.

In many ways I'm glad the update function in Gslapt has been disabled (though it would be better if the toolbar could be updated to reflect that, rather than having a bubble message telling users when they try to use the function). I found it less than useful - while it would show the updates in a reasonably coherent form, it didn't give me any ability to select which updates to apply - it was always pretty much all or nothing. Poor design, IMHO.

I would like to see Vector have a simple way for users to see what packages have been updated or are newly added to the repos, and a simple way of selecting those they want. At present, it doesn't seem to have anything that does that.

I'm not glad at all that the Mark All Upgrades and View Marked have been disabled. This is nannyism at its worst. I *like* to be able to see what upgrades are available in a way that's less laborious than going through the whole lengthy list of packages. Marking upgrades and viewing what's marked was a convenient way to do this. Even more convenient would be to list just the upgrades without marking them. Then have a View Available Upgrades option, leaving it to the user to mark the upgrades to install.

I'm not so foolish as to install all the upgrades. Usually, I don't install any of them. But I like to see what's available. I don't think every user should be deprived of a useful feature just because some people rush in where angels fear to tread. Why not a warning message--"DON'T upgrade a package just because an upgrade is available"--and a change in defaults so we can see just the upgrades if we so choose?

I agree that Gimp should have been included. However, it is included in 5.9 Deluxe, so maybe this is a way to give a gentle nudge to people to PAY UP so VL can continue to get better and better. ;)

In the past, I have either bought the Deluxe CD or made a donation equal to the price of the Deluxe CD. This time I bought the Deluxe CD as soon as I knew about it because you get enhanced content and the default wallpaper is really nice.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: no2thesame on January 09, 2008, 02:01:47 am
Wow, I'm gone a week and miss a lot!
After 2 weeks, it's a different forum to the sleepy one I left! Vec's sense of humour is alarming.

It is very frustrating feeling like you are part of the best OS and wondering why the rest of the world doesn't know about it.
My friends at the LUGs seem glued to their Ubuntu and Mepis, although at my suggestion we did give Vector disks away for Software Freedom Day, for people with slower machines.

Quote
there are some important things that need to be worked out, and I think the community here need to influence them as much as possible.
1)The costs of running VL are increasing and the cd sales are shrinking.
   what are your ideas that can help VL make money (and still remain free)?
I like the idea of a pay-only SOHO-Deluxe version. But the website needs to be reworked as well to give the home page a more professional look. The new home page is an improvement, but is actually the "Latest News" page.

We should emphasise the community as well. I like this site http://www.bhpbilliton.com.au/bb/home.jsp Even though they are a mining company (no connection with me) there are photos of people. So I think some posed professional photos of business people being helped by a smiling 'Vector community expert' would be good. (Or drive people away)
Photos of smiling kids would be good too. 

I know it is only minor but we have to present a much more human face as the Vector community is a real asset.

Reading this thread I can't help wondering, how many people actually do use Vector for what it's best for? (I refer here too the SOHO edition.) There is no real serious other distro that advertises itself as focused on the small office, home office segment of the market AFAIK.
I agree wholeheartedly, it should be backed up with some sort of support, even if it is just more detailed documentation or how-tos.  I don't mind putting some simpler ones together. I have to keep detailed notes of any changes I make with each install, so I remember.

We can ALWAYS use packagers.  :)  It's a good way to get your feet wet and be valuable immediately. We only have a handful of packagers for all that is out there.  And you may think of interesting apps we haven't even heard of yet.
If someone could walk me through for the first time, I would gladly make the Bibletime package for future versions.
Don't think I'll ever make a dev though.

no2
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: uelsk8s on January 09, 2008, 08:01:52 am
Code: [Select]
If someone could walk me through for the first time, I would gladly make the Bibletime package for future versions.
Don't think I'll ever make a dev though.

no2
the first thing i do when i need to build a package is to type "packagename.slackbbuild" into google.
90% of the time i will find a slackbuild for the package. here is what i found for bibletime: http://darkstar.ist.utl.pt/slackware/addon/slacky/slackware-11.0/utilities/bibletime/1.6.4/src/bibletime.SlackBuild
downloading this and runnig it will make me a slackware tgz package, BUT running someone elses script without Knowing what it does is Dangerous, and it is not customized for VL.

to start with a script is just the linux commands used to make a package written together in a file. to make a package you need to 1)download the source tarball 2) extract it 3)configure the source 4)make the source 5)install the source into a temp package directory 6)put a description and any customizations into the temp pkg dir 7)run makepkg to compress the temp pkg dir into a package.
If you can put together the commands to do those 7 steps into a file you have a working buildscript. If i can type those commands and a have a working package why would i need a buildscript? well for 2 good reasons 1) the GPL says we have to have one and 2) if i have a good buildscript i will never have to type all those commands again the next tima a new VL version comes out.
So back to customizing the slackbuild i found. I will make comments inside the slackbuild below mine will start with 3 ###. the requirements comment says you will need sword and clucene-core so you will also have to find slackbuilds for those and maintain them. in the same dir that this script is ran you will also need the description file http://darkstar.ist.utl.pt/slackware/addon/slacky/slackware-11.0/utilities/bibletime/1.6.4/src/slack-desc
and the source and i18 tarballs
http://darkstar.ist.utl.pt/slackware/addon/slacky/slackware-11.0/utilities/bibletime/1.6.4/src/bibletime-1.6.4.tar.bz2
http://darkstar.ist.utl.pt/slackware/addon/slacky/slackware-11.0/utilities/bibletime/1.6.4/src/bibletime-i18n-1.6.4.tar.bz2

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/sh
# Heavily based on the Slackware 11.0 SlackBuild
# Requirements: sword, clucene-core
# http://www.bibletime.info
# Packager Vincenzi Loris - slacky@slacky.it
###modified for vectorlinux by Uelsk8s

CWD=`pwd`
TMP=${TMP:-/tmp/tgz}
PKG=$TMP/package-bibletime
NAME=bibletime
VERSION=1.6.4
###we dont use CHOST so i will comment it out and use CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE below instead so we can make 64bit packages from same script
#CHOST=i486
###VL packages are compiled with i586 as the ARCH we will make that dynamic here the script will run the command in the parentheses and return a value that we will use
ARCH=$(uname -m)
###the build should start with 1vl59 for VL5.9 and if we find a bug in the package we wil have to increase it to 2vl59
BUILD=1vl59
CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE=i486-slackware-linux

if [ "$ARCH" = "i?86" ]; then
  SLKCFLAGS="-O2 -march=i586 -mcpu=i686"
elif [ "$ARCH" = "x86_64" ]; then
  SLKCFLAGS="-O2 -fpic"
 CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE=x86_64-pc-linux
fi

if [ ! -d $TMP ]; then
 mkdir -p $TMP
fi
if [ ! -d $PKG ]; then
 mkdir -p $PKG
fi

cd $TMP
tar xjvf $CWD/$NAME-$VERSION.tar.bz2
cd $NAME-$VERSION
chown -R root:root .
CFLAGS="$SLKCFLAGS" \
CXXFLAGS="$SLKCFLAGS" \
./configure --prefix=/usr \
--program-prefix="" \
--program-suffix="" \
--build=$CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE
make -j4 || exit 1
make install DESTDIR=$PKG
mkdir -p $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION
cp -a INSTALL LICENSE README $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION
tar xjvf $CWD/$NAME-i18n-$VERSION.tar.bz2
cd $NAME-i18n-$VERSION
chown -R root:root .
./configure --prefix=/usr \
--program-prefix="" \
--program-suffix="" \
$CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE
make -j4 || exit 1
make install DESTDIR=$PKG
cd $PKG
find . | xargs file | grep "executable" | grep ELF | cut -f 1 -d : | xargs strip --strip-unneeded 2> /dev/null
find . | xargs file | grep "shared object" | grep ELF | cut -f 1 -d : | xargs strip --strip-unneeded 2> /dev/null
mkdir -p $PKG/install
cat $CWD/slack-desc > $PKG/install/slack-desc
cat $CWD/slack-desc > $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION/slack-desc
cat $CWD/$NAME.SlackBuild > $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION/$NAME.SlackBuild
### the requiredbuilder builder program needs to be installed or your package will not get dependancy info.
###(slapt-get --install requiredbuilder) should do it
requiredbuilder -v -y -s $CWD $PKG
makepkg -l y -c n $CWD/$NAME-$VERSION-$ARCH-$BUILD.tlz

if [ "$1" = "--cleanup" ]; then
 rm -rf $TMP
fi

If you have any questions after all that just ask.

Uelsk8s
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: no2thesame on March 23, 2008, 05:03:14 am
I know this is opening up an old thread but I have, at long last, had the time and courage to package BibleTime. Thanks for the help Uelsk8s, I couldn't have done anything without it.
I have several questions.... but first the results. Here is my bibletime.SlackBuild :
Code: [Select]
!/bin/sh
# Heavily based on the Slackware 12.0 SlackBuild
# Requirements: sword, clucene-core
# http://www.bibletime.info
# Packager Vincenzi Loris - slacky@slacky.it
# modified for Vector Linux 5.9 by no2thesame

CWD=`pwd`
TMP=${TMP:-/tmp/tgz}
PKG=$TMP/package-bibletime
NAME=bibletime
VERSION=1.6.5
#CHOST=i486
ARCH=$(uname -m)
BUILD=1vl59
CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE=i486-slackware-linux

if [ "$ARCH" = "i?86" ]; then
  SLKCFLAGS="-O2 -march=i586 -mcpu=i686"
elif [ "$ARCH" = "x86_64" ]; then
  SLKCFLAGS="-O2 -fpic"
 CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE=x86_64-pc-linux
fi

if [ ! -d $TMP ]; then
 mkdir -p $TMP
fi
if [ ! -d $PKG ]; then
 mkdir -p $PKG
fi

cd $TMP
tar xjvf $CWD/$NAME-$VERSION.tar.bz2
cd $NAME-$VERSION
find . \( -perm 777 -o -perm 775 -o -perm 711 \) -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . \( -perm 700 -o -perm 555 -o -perm 511 \) -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . \( -perm 666 -o -perm 664 -o -perm 600 \) -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . \( -perm 444 -o -perm 440 -o -perm 400 \) -exec chmod 644 {} \;
chown -R root:root .
CFLAGS="$SLKCFLAGS" \
CXXFLAGS="$SLKCFLAGS" \
./configure --prefix=/usr \
--disable-debug \
--program-prefix= \
--program-suffix= \
--build=$CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE
#--build=$CHOST-slackware-linux
make -j4 || exit 1
make install DESTDIR=$PKG
mkdir -p $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION
cp -a INSTALL LICENSE README $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION
tar xjvf $CWD/$NAME-i18n-$VERSION.tar.bz2
cd $NAME-i18n-$VERSION
find . \( -perm 777 -o -perm 775 -o -perm 711 \) -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . \( -perm 700 -o -perm 555 -o -perm 511 \) -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . \( -perm 666 -o -perm 664 -o -perm 600 \) -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . \( -perm 444 -o -perm 440 -o -perm 400 \) -exec chmod 644 {} \
chown -R root:root .
./configure --prefix=/usr \
--disable-debug \
--program-prefix= \
--program-suffix= \
--build=$CONFIGURE_TRIPLATE
#--build=$CHOST-slackware-linux
make -j4 || exit 1
make install DESTDIR=$PKG
cd $PKG
find . | xargs file | grep "executable" | grep ELF | cut -f 1 -d : | xargs strip --strip-unneeded 2> /dev/null
find . | xargs file | grep "shared object" | grep ELF | cut -f 1 -d : | xargs strip --strip-unneeded 2> /dev/null
mkdir -p $PKG/install
cat $CWD/slack-desc > $PKG/install/slack-desc
cat $CWD/slack-desc > $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION/slack-desc
cat $CWD/$NAME.SlackBuild > $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION/$NAME.SlackBuild
requiredbuilder -v -y -s $CWD $PKG
makepkg -l y -c n $CWD/$NAME-$VERSION-$ARCH-$BUILD.tgz

if [ "$1" = "--cleanup" ]; then
 rm -rf $TMP
fi
A few issues:
the version is more recent than the one you demonstrated, have I altered the slackbuild correctly? I am not confident with my bash abilities.
 The resulting file is bibletime-1.6.5-i686-1vl59.tgz    is i686 correct?
 While it is building I get a lot of lines saying I don't have permission to chown. Should I be in root when I do this?
 
Installing and testing
I downloaded, modified the Slackbuild, packaged and installed clucene-core and sword as required, then installed BibleTime. It worked perfectly (amazingly!!). I like this version a lot.

I made a description-pak is this correct?:
 
Code: [Select]
pkg-name (bibletime-1.6.5-i686-1vl59.tgz)
Description: BibleTime
 BibleTime is a Bible study application for Linux. It is based on the
 K Desktop Environment and uses the Sword programming library to work
 with Bible texts, commentaries, dictionaries and books provided by
 the Crosswire Bible Society.
Required: sword, clucene-core
Website: http://www.bibletime.info
License: GNU GPL
Author: Joachim Ansorg, Martin Gruner, James Ots
Please correct anything you see here.
What is my next step?

no2
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: caitlyn on March 23, 2008, 10:51:31 am

I'm not glad at all that the Mark All Upgrades and View Marked have been disabled. This is nannyism at its worst. I *like* to be able to see what upgrades are available in a way that's less laborious than going through the whole lengthy list of packages. Marking upgrades and viewing what's marked was a convenient way to do this. Even more convenient would be to list just the upgrades without marking them. Then have a View Available Upgrades option, leaving it to the user to mark the upgrades to install.

I'm not so foolish as to install all the upgrades. Usually, I don't install any of them. But I like to see what's available. I don't think every user should be deprived of a useful feature just because some people rush in where angels fear to tread. Why not a warning message--"DON'T upgrade a package just because an upgrade is available"--and a change in defaults so we can see just the upgrades if we so choose?

Jumping in late...  I am one of those people who DO upgrade most everything (not the kernel, obviously) and it has been perfectly safe to do so since 5.8 released and throughout the 5.8 and 5.9 lifecycle so far.  The reason most distros encourage this is that most updates to core packages should fall into one of two categories: 

1> Security patches
2> Bugfixes

Upgrading just because there is some cool new feature generally waits until the next release of the OS.  Although VL Has no hard and fast rule like this the fact is that we don't get a lot of upgrades and most do fit into those categories because that's what motivates people to build a new version of a core package.

So, I fundamentally agree with GrannyGeek.  In adidtion, disabling that feature was a really bad idea because it makes keeping a system secure difficult for a Linux newcomer.  It's something I actually criticize in my O'Reilly review of 5.9 (about to be posted). 

In future not only would I like to see that functionality restored but I'd like to see gslapt-notifier integrated into the default Xfce desktop.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: kc1di on March 23, 2008, 01:06:17 pm
Wow, I'm gone a week and miss a lot!

If someone could walk me through for the first time, I would gladly make the Bibletime package for future versions.
Don't think I'll ever make a dev though.

no2

Hi no2,

I think your on the  right track , and know you'll get the help you need,  I've already packaged bibletime 1.6.5 and it's dependancies .. but it has not been moved to the repository as yet you can see my post at http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5861.0

Cheers !
Dave
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: no2thesame on March 23, 2008, 03:18:49 pm

Hi no2,

I think your on the  right track , and know you'll get the help you need,  I've already packaged bibletime 1.6.5 and it's dependancies .. but it has not been moved to the repository as yet you can see my post at http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5861.0

Cheers !
Dave


Hello Dave,
after sweating blood (figuratively... but appropriate this time of year) to do my first package, I'm miffed that you beat me to it. But I'm glad that someone has finally done it.

And Gslapt almost fooled me into believing it was on the repository just now, until I checked on another machine. Then I noticed the location is my home directory.

I couldn't follow the link to your post either. ?permissions?

I have a question now (at risk of diverting this thread)... where can I see the buildscript and description-pak of a package in the VL repository? Just so I know how they 'should' look.

Thanks,
no2
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: kc1di on March 23, 2008, 04:39:26 pm

Hi no2,

I think your on the  right track , and know you'll get the help you need,  I've already packaged bibletime 1.6.5 and it's dependancies .. but it has not been moved to the repository as yet you can see my post at http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5861.0

Cheers !
Dave


Hello Dave,
after sweating blood (figuratively... but appropriate this time of year) to do my first package, I'm miffed that you beat me to it. But I'm glad that someone has finally done it.

And Gslapt almost fooled me into believing it was on the repository just now, until I checked on another machine. Then I noticed the location is my home directory.

I couldn't follow the link to your post either. ?permissions?

I have a question now (at risk of diverting this thread)... where can I see the buildscript and description-pak of a package in the VL repository? Just so I know how they 'should' look.   

Thanks,
no2

Hi again no2,

Well I didn't run into your thread until this afternoon I had packaged it last week because I wanted it on one of my machines.. I also use E-sword with wine both are good Bible Study programs. 

If I can be of help to you in the future in packaging any programs let me know. As we need as many packagers as we can get..  right now the bottleneck seems to be getting them moved over into the repositories as there are only a few members that can do that.   I forgot the link I sent you is not open to the public. 
any way don't give up and Lord Bless. And now we better turn the thread back to it's original intent.

Dave


Here is the Build Script that I used to build it..
Code: [Select]
#!/usr/bin/bash
# This script assumes it will be launched within "/NAME/VERSION/src" dir.
# With all sources in "src" Your Vector Linux .tlz package, slack-desc,
# and slack-required will be found in "VERSION" dir. The extraction and
# build will be in a temp dir created in "NAME" dir, and then removed on exit.
# Comment out second to last line to keep this dir intact.


NAME="bibletime"            #Enter package Name!
VERSION=${VERSION:-"1.6.5"}      #Enter package Version!
VL_PACKAGER=${VL_PACKAGER:-"KC1DI"}   #Enter your Name!


#SYSTEM VARIABLES
#----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUILDNUM=${BUILDNUM:-"1"}
VL_VERSION=${VL_VERSION:-"$(ls /var/log/packages/|grep vlconfig2|cut -d "-" -f4|cut -c 2-5)"}
BUILD=${BUILD:-"$BUILDNUM""$VL_VERSION"}
ARCH=${ARCH:-$(uname -m)}
CONFIG_OPTIONS=${CONFIG_OPTIONS:-""}
LDFLAG_OPTIONS=${LDFLAG_OPTIONS:-""}
#----------------------------------------------------------------------------


#SETUP PACKAGING ENVIRONMENT
#--------------------------------------------
CWD=$(pwd)
cd ../
RELEASEDIR=$(pwd)
cd $CWD
mkdir -p $RELEASEDIR/tmp
TMP=$RELEASEDIR/tmp
PKG=$TMP/package-$NAME
#--------------------------------------------


if [ $UID != 0 ]; then
   echo "You are not authorized to run this script. Please login as root"
   exit 1
fi

if [ ! -x /usr/bin/requiredbuilder ]; then
   echo "Requiredbuilder not installed, or not executable."
   exit 1
fi

if [ $VL_PACKAGER = "YOURNAME" ]; then
   echo 'Who are you?
   Please edit VL_PACKAGER=${VL_PACKAGER:-YOURNAME} in this script.
   Change the word "YOURNAME" to your VectorLinux packager name.
   You may also export VL_PACKAGER, or call this script with
   VL_PACKAGER="YOUR NAME HERE"'
   exit 1
fi


#CFLAGS SETUP
#--------------------------------------------
if [[ "$ARCH" = i?86 ]]; then
  ARCH=i586
  SLKCFLAGS="-O2 -march=i586 -mtune=i686"
  CONFIGURE_TRIPLET="i486-slackware-linux"
elif [ "$ARCH" = "x86_64" ]; then
  SLKCFLAGS="-O2 -fpic"
  CONFIGURE_TRIPLET="x86_64-pc-linux"
fi

export CFLAGS="$SLKCFLAGS $CFLAG_OPTIONS"
export CXXFLAGS=$CFLAGS
export LDFLAGS="$LDFLAGS $LDFLAG_OPTIONS"
#--------------------------------------------


rm -rf $PKG
mkdir -p $PKG
cd $TMP
rm -rf $NAME-$VERSION


#EXTRACT SOURCES
#-----------------------------------------------------
echo "Extracting source..."
tar xvf $CWD/$NAME-$VERSION.tar.* || exit 1
#-----------------------------------------------------


cd $TMP/$NAME-$VERSION


#SET PERMISSIONS
#-----------------------------------------
echo "Setting permissions..."
chown -R root:root .
find . -perm 664 -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . -perm 777 -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . -perm 2777 -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . -perm 775 -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . -perm 2755 -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . -perm 774 -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . -perm 666 -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . -perm 600 -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . -perm 444 -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . -perm 400 -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . -perm 440 -exec chmod 644 {} \;
find . -perm 511 -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . -perm 711 -exec chmod 755 {} \;
find . -perm 555 -exec chmod 755 {} \;
#-----------------------------------------


#CONFIGURE & MAKE
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
# If you are building a KDE-related app, then change the following
# arguments in the script below:
# --prefix=$(kde-config -prefix) \
# --sysconfdir=/etc/kde \
#
# Making these changes will ensure that your package will build in the
# correct path and that it will work seamlessly within the KDE environment.
#
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------
echo "Configuring source..."
./configure --prefix=/usr \
  --sysconfdir=/etc \
  --localstatedir=/var \
  --mandir=/usr/man \
  --with-included-gettext \
  --disable-debug \
  --program-prefix="" \
  --program-suffix="" \
  --build=$CONFIGURE_TRIPLET \
  $CONFIG_OPTIONS || exit 1

make || exit 1

make install DESTDIR=$PKG || exit

#######################################################################
#Miscellenious tweaks and things outside a normal ./configure go here #
#######################################################################

#mkdir -p $PKG/usr/share/applications
#cp $CWD/$NAME.desktop $PKG/usr/share/applications/$NAME.desktop
#mkdir -p $PKG/usr/share/pixmaps
#cp $CWD/$NAME.png $PKG/usr/share/pixmaps/$NAME.png

mkdir -p $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION
cp -a AUTHORS COPYING ChangeLog Credits MANIFEST README TODO \
   $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION
cat $CWD/$NAME.SlackBuild > $PKG/usr/doc/$NAME-$VERSION/$NAME.SlackBuild

#----------------------------------------------------------------------

if [ -d $PKG/usr/share/man ] ; then
  mkdir -p $PKG/usr/man
  mv $PKG/usr/share/man/* $PKG/usr/man
  rm  $PKG/usr/share/man
fi
find $PKG/usr/man -type f -exec gzip -9 {} \;

if [ -d $PKG/usr/share/info ] ; then
  mkdir -p $PKG/usr/info
  mv $PKG/usr/share/info/* $PKG/usr/info
  rm $PKG/usr/share/info
fi 
find $PKG/usr/info -type f -exec gzip -9 {} \;

mkdir -p $PKG/install

           # This creates the white space in front of "handy-ruler" in slack-desc below.

      LENGTH=$(expr length "$NAME")
      SPACES=0
      SHIM=""
      until [ "$SPACES" = "$LENGTH" ]; do
        SHIM="$SHIM "
        let SPACES=$SPACES+1
      done

# Fill in the package summary between the () below.
# Then package the description, License, Author and Website.
# There may be no more then 11 $NAME: lines in a valid slack-desc.

cat > $RELEASEDIR/slack-desc << EOF
# HOW TO EDIT THIS FILE:
# The "handy ruler" below makes it easier to edit a package description.  Line
# up the first '|' above the ':' following the base package name, and the '|'
# on the right side marks the last column you can put a character in.  You must
# make exactly 11 lines for the formatting to be correct.  It's also
# customary to leave one space after the ':'.
   
$SHIM|-----handy-ruler------------------------------------------------------|
$NAME: $NAME (bibletime)
$NAME: BibleTime is a Bible study application for Linux.
$NAME: It is based on the K Desktop Environment and uses the Sword
$NAME: programming library to work with Bible texts, commentaries,
$NAME: dictionaries and books provided by the Crosswire Bible Society.
$NAME:
$NAME:
$NAME: License: GPL
$NAME: Authors:
$NAME: Website: http://www.bibletime.info/software_about.html


#----------------------------------------
BUILDDATE: $(date)
PACKAGER:  $VL_PACKAGER
HOST:      $(uname -srm)
DISTRO:    $(cat /etc/vector-version)
CFLAGS:    $CFLAGS
LDFLAGS:   $LDFLAGS
CONFIGURE: $(awk "/\.\/configure\ /" $TMP/$NAME-$VERSION/config.log)

EOF

cat $RELEASEDIR/slack-desc > $PKG/install/slack-desc


#STRIPPING
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cd $PKG
echo " "
echo "Stripping...."
echo " "
find . | xargs file | grep "executable" | grep ELF | cut -f 1 -d : | xargs strip --strip-unneeded 2> /dev/null
find . | xargs file | grep "shared object" | grep ELF | cut -f 1 -d : | xargs strip --strip-unneeded 2> /dev/null
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


#FINISH PACKAGE
#--------------------------------------------------------------
echo "Finding dependencies..."
requiredbuilder -v -y -s $RELEASEDIR $PKG
echo "Creating package $NAME-$VERSION-$ARCH-$BUILD.tlz"
makepkg -l y -c n $RELEASEDIR/$NAME-$VERSION-$ARCH-$BUILD.tlz

cd $CWD
echo "Cleaning up temp files..." && rm -rf $TMP
echo "Package Complete"
#--------------------------------------------------------------

also here is the slack-desc and slack-required files.

Code: [Select]
# HOW TO EDIT THIS FILE:
# The "handy ruler" below makes it easier to edit a package description.  Line
# up the first '|' above the ':' following the base package name, and the '|'
# on the right side marks the last column you can put a character in.  You must
# make exactly 11 lines for the formatting to be correct.  It's also
# customary to leave one space after the ':'.
   
         |-----handy-ruler------------------------------------------------------|
bibletime: bibletime (bibletime)
bibletime: BibleTime is a Bible study application for Linux.
bibletime: It is based on the K Desktop Environment and uses the Sword
bibletime: programming library to work with Bible texts, commentaries,
bibletime: dictionaries and books provided by the Crosswire Bible Society.
bibletime:
bibletime:
bibletime: License: GPL
bibletime: Authors: Joachim Ansorg, Martin Gruner, James Ots
bibletime: Website: http://www.bibletime.info/software_about.html


#----------------------------------------
BUILDDATE: Sun Mar 16 21:22:28 UTC 2008
PACKAGER:  KC1DI
HOST:      Linux 2.6.22.14 i686
DISTRO:    5.9 SOHO Alpha3.4 built on Mar-08-08
CFLAGS:    -O2 -march=i586 -mtune=i686
LDFLAGS:   
CONFIGURE:   $ ./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var --mandir=/usr/man --with-included-gettext --disable-debug --program-prefix= --program-suffix= --build=i486-slackware-linux

Code: [Select]
acl >= 2.2.39_1-i486-2
attr >= 2.4.32_1-i486-2
clucene-core >= 0.9.20-i586-1vl59
curl >= 7.17.0-i586-1vl59
cxxlibs >= 6.0.8-i486-4 | gcc-g++ >= 4.1.2-i486-1
cyrus-sasl >= 2.1.22-i486-1
expat >= 2.0.1-i486-1
fbopenssl >= 0.0.4-i586-1vl59
fontconfig >= 2.4.2-i486-2
freetype >= 2.3.5-i486-1
gamin >= 0.1.8-i486-2
gcc >= 4.1.2-i486-1
glibc-solibs >= 2.5-i486-5
kdelibs >= 3.5.9-i586-2vl59
lcms >= 1.16-i486-1
libICE >= 1.0.4-i486-1
libSM >= 1.0.3-i486-1
libX11 >= 1.1.3-i486-1
libXau >= 1.0.3-i486-1
libXcursor >= 1.1.9-i486-1
libXdamage >= 1.1.1-i486-1
libXdmcp >= 1.0.2-i486-1
libXext >= 1.0.3-i486-1
libXfixes >= 4.0.3-i486-1
libXft >= 2.1.12-i486-2
libXi >= 1.1.3-i486-1
libXinerama >= 1.0.2-i486-1
libXmu >= 1.0.3-i486-1
libXrandr >= 1.2.2-i486-1
libXrender >= 0.9.4-i486-1
libXt >= 1.0.5-i486-1
libXxf86vm >= 1.0.1-i486-1
libart_lgpl >= 2.3.19-i486-1
libdrm >= 2.3.0-i486-1
libidn >= 0.6.10-i486-1
libjpeg >= 6b-i486-5
libmng >= 1.0.9-i486-1
libpng >= 1.2.25-i586-2vl59
libssh2 >= 0.17-i586-1vl59
libxcb >= 1.0-i486-2
mesa >= 7.0.2-i486-1
openldap-client >= 2.3.32-i486-1
openssl >= 0.9.8f-i486-1 | openssl-solibs >= 0.9.8f-i486-1
pcre >= 7.3-i486-1
qt >= 3.3.8b-i586-3vl59
sword >= 1.5.10-i586-1vl59
zlib >= 1.2.3-i486-2

Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: no2thesame on March 23, 2008, 05:26:27 pm
Hi again no2,

Well I didn't run into your thread until this afternoon I had packaged it last week because I wanted it on one of my machines.. I also use E-sword with wine both are good Bible Study programs. 

If I can be of help to you in the future in packaging any programs let me know. As we need as many packagers as we can get..  right now the bottleneck seems to be getting them moved over into the repositories as there are only a few members that can do that.   I forgot the link I sent you is not open to the public. 
any way don't give up and Lord Bless. And now we better turn the thread back to it's original intent.

Dave
Thanks for all the info Dave, it's good to see how people approach the problem.

Hey, don't feel bad that you beat me, I took ages to get around to the job and I've learnt heaps so far. Looking forward to examining your files. I might take you up on that help in future too.

eSword is sweet, pity it isn't open source. But I like the new BibleTime too.

no2
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Windozer on December 08, 2008, 05:17:44 pm

[...] that the Mark All Upgrades and View Marked have been disabled. [...] I *like* to be able to see what upgrades are available in a way that's less laborious than going through the whole lengthy list of packages. [...]

[...] In future not only would I like to see that functionality restored but I'd like to see gslapt-notifier integrated [...]

Hope you all don't mind that I pull this older thread back on top of the heap, but this is enough to make me consider not upgrading from 5.8 to 5.9 --- I prefer to do the same method as G.G.

Did this get resolved since then, in a sub-release of 5.9, or is it slated for 6.0?

thanks,
Howard in Florida
~~~~~~~~~~
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: GrannyGeek on December 08, 2008, 06:04:07 pm
Hope you all don't mind that I pull this older thread back on top of the heap, but this is enough to make me consider not upgrading from 5.8 to 5.9 --- I prefer to do the same method as G.G.

Did this get resolved since then, in a sub-release of 5.9, or is it slated for 6.0?

I'm happy to say it's back in VL6. I haven't checked in VL6 beta 2 yet, but it's been in previous test versions.

VL 6 is really nice and has been quite stable throughout the public alpha cycle and now the betas. Do plan to upgrade to it when the final version comes out (should be very soon).
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Windozer on December 11, 2008, 04:54:08 pm
Quote
[...] VL 6 is really nice [...] --GrannyGeek

Thanks, GrannyGeek.

cool!  Maybe I'll try out the beta, and do a bit of testing.

cheers,
Howard
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: caitlyn on December 26, 2008, 04:42:49 pm
Release Candidate 1 is even nicer than the betas :)  The big addition, IMHO, is gslapt-notifier, a little daemon that pops a red icon up on your panel when patches are available.  One click and they can be installed.  This makes keeping a VL system patched and secure as easy as Ubuntu or Fedora or any other distro you care to name.

Thanks to some help from two VL develpers (Uelsk8s and Vector) I've got it running very nicely on my Sylvania g netbook.  I did have to upgrade to a 2.6.27.10 kernel and update mesa and libdrm to get the Via Chrome graphics chipset working correctly and to get support for my built-in webcam.  Once that was done, though...  :D

I still have a couple of minor issues to work out and I already know what the likely fixes are. 

Anyway, IMHO VL6 is really looking like it will be a sweet release, as in the best from Vector Linux to date.
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Windozer on December 26, 2008, 05:02:32 pm
Release Candidate 1 is even nicer than the betas :)  [...] Anyway, IMHO VL6 is really looking like it will be a sweet release, as in the best from Vector Linux to date.

COOL!

Caitlyn, I just DL'ed it a few minutes ago. Will try it out on a duel proc with a sata drive that has a ton of partitions, including Bill's favorite money machine  <G>

Do you think you'll find time to do a write up on it? Your review of an earlier release led me to making the post above.  I found that review to be very thorough and clear. As a former tech-writer and translator, I appreciate that level of detail all the more.

Have a feeling I'll be seconding your vote for V6 here soon  ;D


cheers,
- Howard in FL
~~~~~~~~~
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: caitlyn on December 26, 2008, 05:11:56 pm
Hi, Howard,

I did the review of Beta 2 for DistroWatch Weekly at the request of DW owner/editor Ladislav Bodnar.  That writing gig was actually paid.  When I'm paid to write I always try to do what my editor wants :) 

In general I don't review betas or release candidates.  I review final releases only after I have time to really work with them.  I do expect to review Vector Linux 6 for the O'Reilly Broadcast website.  Hopefully the editor of linux.oreilly.com will also choose it for inclusion and various Linux portal sites will pick it up.  That won't happen for a while yet, though.

Thanks for your nice compliment, BTW.  It is appreciated.

Regards,
Cait
Title: Re: VL 6.0 schedule
Post by: Dweeberkitty on December 26, 2008, 06:55:29 pm
Anyway, IMHO VL6 is really looking like it will be a sweet release, as in the best from Vector Linux to date.

Hehe, seems like that's the case with almost every release. It just keeps getting better.... ;D