VectorLinux

Marketing VL => General => Topic started by: tripleRsystem on September 14, 2008, 02:14:01 pm

Title: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 14, 2008, 02:14:01 pm
I picked up on VL from distrowatch.  In any direction taken to build market share it will take money; it is a costly matter to promote the better mousetrap.  The Ubuntu founder has spent a tonne of money to get Ubuntu where it is today.  However, there are low budget distros, such as PCLOS, Mint that are ranked near the top simply because a host of Linux users believe they are better suited too their likes and dislikes.  My short experience with VL tells me VL is certainly a well done distro, so VL will climb in the rank as Linux users give it ago. 
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: vector on September 15, 2008, 12:51:06 am
Thank you for the kind words. My problem is Vector has been around longer than Ubuntu, mint or even pclos. In fact we are older than than 90% of the distros on distrowatch but still people do not know vector and still think its a new distro much of the time. We get usually five reviews per release all generally good to excellent
and yet no respect............what are we to do .............after 10 years I am out of ideas.............so new ideas would be good!

Vector
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 15, 2008, 09:14:52 pm
Well, I'll put my thinking cap on and try to come up with an idea or two.   First and foremost the world always beats a path to a better mousetrap.  One must ask:  What are the top ten ranking distros doing that justifies their popularity.  You rightfully point out, Vector is an old timer in the business and offers a broad line of quality distros'.  I believe first it must be quantified as to exactly what it is that makes PCLOS, a derivative of Mandriva, and Mint, a knock off from Ubuntu, more popular than Vector.  In the final analysis it may simply be karma! And then again, there may not be an answer, who would of thought a distro done in brown would survive let alone succeed to the level of Ubuntu.  However, you may have pointed to part of your problem. If it is true that Vector is seen as a new distro then it is also seen as work in progress i.e; unstable and buggy.   This image of the new kid on the block must be reversed or Vector Linux will remain as it is today, a quality distro but an oddity unable to break-out and will simply remain a jr varsity red shirt, or just another also ran.  I will continue to give this some thought, and simply PM.  Of course the use of PM may be counter productive since an open forum discourse may bring additional and better ideas to the table. 

As a closing thought: It seems perhaps some vintage leverage may be possible from an associated name Slackware?  You would understand the vagaries of this better than I.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: M0E-lnx on September 16, 2008, 12:00:51 pm
You make a good point in stating the fact that a distro would never make it to the top if seen as a "work in progress". I think that makes a lot of sense. One also has to consider how important it is to stay up-to-date with new software, or else you will be seen as the old dusty book in the library that no body touches. Keep that in mind when you think of other well known distros that make few but solid releases (dare I say "Slackware"?). That being said, I think a better approach to the VL development would be to make fewer solid releases (maybe once a year or so) that way, you have enough time for more extensive testing and bugfixing.

My 2 cents worth
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 16, 2008, 01:36:19 pm
Umm... Vector has only one version released per year.  5.8 was 12/06.  5.9 was 12/07.  It looks like 6.0 might be 12/08.  There are variations on a theme (SOHO, Live, Light) but only one real release.  Less than that and we'd be ignored for sure.

I do think the association with Slackware hurts more than it helps.  Slackware, to many people means difficult, geeky, unfriendly, and generally a pain in the a**.  IT also means fast, stable, and reliable and what Vector Linux does is add the user friendliness and a decent sized repository that Slackware lacks.  The problme Vector, Zenwalk, Wolvix, Nonux, etc... all have is getting people to understand that Slackware derivative doesn't necessarily mean just like Slackware.  We take all the good that Slackware offers and add what many (most?) people find lacking.  It isn't just a Slackware respin the way so many Ubuntu derivatives are just Ubuntu with a new theme and a different package list.  Vector is to Slackware what Ubuntu is to Debian and I don't think most people understand that.

Work in progress?  All operating systems are perpetual works in progress.  They have to be to keep up with new technologies.  I don't think VL is any more a work in porgress than other distros.  If anything it's less so.  We seem to have fewer bugs than Ubuntu in a given release.

Maybe it's time I write a new article, one not limited to Vector...
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: M0E-lnx on September 16, 2008, 01:45:49 pm
The reason I mentioned that was because I think I recall an change made after 5.9 went final where VL was going to try more frequent incremental releases.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 16, 2008, 02:40:25 pm
Great post caitlyn, your post sure sold me on Vector Linux, however, I'm part of the quire.  What troubles me it seems Vector Linux is doing everything right, and, if true, there is no room for improvement or change. [But] where does that lead us in our quest to lead the pack.  In business there is an old axiom  "Advertise or Die."  Vector Linux, for whatever the reason, is attempting to sell itself to the community, and exactly how to do this is the problem.  Vector Linux would not be the first business to do a complete make over to achieve an image that sells.  I'm not convinced that steps need be initiated to change the product, I only suggest more exposer is required to get your post to the broader community and beyound.  Five or six positive reviews per year and one or two articles will not help move Vector Linux forward and out of the surrounding pack.  Vector Linux must offer the community something unique and/or bury the community with its presence until the name Vector Linux becomes as common as Comet Cleanser.         
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 16, 2008, 03:40:48 pm
What makes you think Vector Linux is a business?  There is no corporate entity so far as I know.  I don't think it's particularly important that VL become as popular as Ubuntu.

Is VL doing everything right?  Not hardly.  I don't know any distributor that is.  OTOH, things have improved steadily over the years IMHO.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: bigpaws on September 16, 2008, 07:02:06 pm
Quote
What makes you think Vector Linux is a business?  There is no corporate entity so far as I know.

Vector is a legal business.

Bigpaws
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 16, 2008, 08:39:24 pm
Thank you for the kind words. My problem is Vector has been around longer than Ubuntu, mint or even pclos. In fact we are older than than 90% of the distros on distrowatch but still people do not know vector and still think its a new distro much of the time. We get usually five reviews per release all generally good to excellent
and yet no respect............what are we to do .............after 10 years I am out of ideas.............so new ideas would be good!

Vector

My involvement in this discussion is simply focused upon the comments steeped in frustration as offered by Vector.

Suggesting Vector Linux will eventually win or hold its current market share i.e.; ranking, simply because it's a well done distro will not make it so Scotty.  There are simply many distros equal to or better than Vector Linux.  So, if Vector Linux refuses to adjust to the market place, Vector Linux can expect a strong cult following but not the broader community respect Vector is looking for.

Success requires a plan, and serious planning is big business wheather or not its a POP and MOM operation or General Motors or Vector Linux it's all about market share, and right now Vector Linux has very little market share, the community is a mobile and tight market. 

Beneath Ubuntus' brown facade is Canonical, dig deeper and it will be dicovered Ubuntus' early success was not simply happenstance.  Canonical understood in the beginning what it wanted and it knew exactly what it had to do to achieve its goal.  Ubuntu like Phoenix rising from the ashes took command of the community before most distros understood what was upon them.  It was not happenstance that made Ubuntu the success that it is.  One doesn't need to be a business to apply successful business thought and practice, one only needs to understand profit and loss and benefit ratio.

Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: GrannyGeek on September 16, 2008, 09:35:30 pm
Please remember that Ubuntu started out with millions in capital behind it. It can afford to send free CDs to anyone who asks for them. RedHat and SuSE have huge companies behind them and their free distros (Fedora and OpenSuSE) benefit from this.

I think Ubuntu has a lot of (undeserved) buzz because of marketing possible from all the money behind it. VectorLinux can't compete with that. It then became a dogma that Ubuntu was easy to use compared with other Linuxes and this has been repeated ad nauseam by columnists in print and on the Web. Now a lot of people think Linux=Ubuntu.

Frankly, I don't want us to become like Ubuntu. I think it has *too many* users, with the result that its user support forums are overwhelming and questions posted are liable to disappear from view too fast.

I don't want VL to be obscure--it wouldn't bother me, but it's not my business. I'm sure Vec and others with a financial stake in the company would quite rightly want more income from it and they deserve it.

VL isn't doing badly at Distrowatch. We've hovered a few places under or over 20 for years.

I think VL's best selling points are stability and SPEED. It was the speed that got me to abandon trying other distros and stick with VL back in the days of VL 4.3. It was just so overwhelmingly faster than other distros I was trying. I've run Ubuntu Live CDs from time to time just to see what the buzz is about and I was never impressed.

Another thing about VL is that you can learn Linux, not just how to run whatever GUI tools the distro gives you. *NOT* shielding the user from the guts of the system is a great benefit. At the same time, VL does include tools that make things easier. So I think we have the best of both worlds. The thing is, it's hard to convey these advantages in a proverbial 30-second sound bite.

What I do to promote VL is mention that I use it in every forum I participate in whenever the chance comes up and I describe it in more detail when it's appropriate. It's important to stress ease of use because many people have the idea that "Linux is hard." Ubuntu has put a lot of emphasis on saying how easy it is to use.

My own feeling is that new releases come out too often. I HATE building a new system once a year. I'd rather see a three-year cycle for a complete new release and a Windows-style Service Pack annually. The idea of setting up a new installation twice a year is horrifying.
--GrannyGeek
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 16, 2008, 09:41:56 pm
Caitlyn: 

In re reading your posting I discover a possibility.

You post:

"Slackware, to many people means difficult, geeky, unfriendly, and generally a pain.  IT also means fast, stable, and reliable and what Vector Linux does is add the user friendliness."

So I read this as Vector Linux is the friendly face for Slackware.  I'm sure there are many sem-geeks in the community who discover Slackware beyound their level of Linux comprehension, and are frustrated at not being able to experience the Slackware model.  Additionally, I would wager there are many semi-geeks unaware Vector Linux is their ticket to a Slackware ride the easy way.  I suspect there is a real possibility your words could produce a beneficial link between Slackware and Vector Linux.  Again were looking for longevity with stability.       
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 16, 2008, 10:17:37 pm
GrannyGeek:

Your excellent post makes many valid points, and I will addess but one:

You Post:

"VL isn't doing badly at Distrowatch. We've hovered a few places under or over 20 for years."

That is exactly the problem.  Vector Linux seems to have taken umbrage with the near-do-wells.  When the community at large begins to realize that Vector Linux will be found at the same Distrowatch ranking year after year this may be great for cult members but not so good for VL.  When sharks quit swimming they die.  Vector wants community respect.  Vector Linux is a quality distro and deserves respect, however, this respect will not come with equilibrium at number twenty or there abouts.   
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: Dweeberkitty on September 17, 2008, 07:16:20 am
GrannyGeek:

Your excellent post makes many valid points, and I will addess but one:

You Post:

"VL isn't doing badly at Distrowatch. We've hovered a few places under or over 20 for years."

That is exactly the problem.  Vector Linux seems to have taken umbrage with the near-do-wells.  When the community at large begins to realize that Vector Linux will be found at the same Distrowatch ranking year after year this may be great for cult members but not so good for VL.  When sharks quit swimming they die.  Vector wants community respect.  Vector Linux is a quality distro and deserves respect, however, this respect will not come with equilibrium at number twenty or there abouts.   

Good point actually.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: uelsk8s on September 17, 2008, 07:32:55 am
I think we should get a few things straight.

1) the rankings on DW do not tell how popular a distribution is.  the ranking there only show how often a distributions name is clicked, and once you know about a distro there is not much motivation to go back to DW and click.

2) The DW rankings are easy to cheat. I have seen a script that finds proxy servers and hits DW repeatedly. The same could be done by asking your forum members to click DW each day or placing a redirect on your homepage, all have been done by other  distributions.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 17, 2008, 08:41:10 am
I think we should get a few things straight.

1) the rankings on DW do not tell how popular a distribution is.  the ranking there only show how often a distributions name is clicked, and once you know about a distro there is not much motivation to go back to DW and click.

2) The DW rankings are easy to cheat. I have seen a script that finds proxy servers and hits DW repeatedly. The same could be done by asking your forum members to click DW each day or placing a redirect on your homepage, all have been done by other  distributions.


Undoubtly what you post is mostly true, however, your argument begs the question:  How then is Vector Linux to judge its popularity?  Until Vector Linux has an accurate understanding of its overall popularity within the community, the question of respect within the community is mostly a moot point.

Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: M0E-lnx on September 17, 2008, 08:51:29 am
We use one of these scripts until we're as popular as the brow distro ;)
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: stretchedthin on September 17, 2008, 10:12:16 am
There are a couple ways you could measure VL's popularity using tools you already have.  You could also do it in a way that will aid in a new
users transition.

1. You could simply measure new participation in the forum.

or
2. Take that to another level.
Couldn't a browser pop up on 1st start up of VL with links to the help topics a new user would need the most.  Setting up wireless,  how to use vasm, how to use vasmcc,  how to change from vl-hot to hal, how to get samba going, how to fix a missing menu icon, etc.  Also through this link you could request the user to send his hardware information as an option. (via a copy paste of hard info)

You would get an idea of new usage by tracking the hits or you could require registration.

You could also eliminate some of the most common frustrations that drive some away from vl.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: M0E-lnx on September 17, 2008, 10:18:08 am
You would get an idea of new usage by tracking the hits or you could require registration.
I like this idea, but this could get annoying. Also, if you *require* registration (even if the stuff is free), kinda makes you look like M$
Quote
You could also eliminate some of the most common frustrations that drive some away from vl.
That I agree with and IMO, is where the efforts should be aimed at
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 17, 2008, 10:48:13 am
We use one of these scripts until we're as popular as the brow distro ;)

Finally a workable solution, I like it ;)
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: uelsk8s on September 17, 2008, 10:53:04 am
We use one of these scripts until we're as popular as the brow distro ;)

Finally a workable solution, I like it.

Does this make us more popular? Or does it just make us seem more popular? Is there a difference?
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: waynev on September 17, 2008, 01:25:17 pm
We use one of these scripts until we're as popular as the brow distro ;)

Finally a workable solution, I like it.

Does this make us more popular? Or does it just make us seem more popular? Is there a difference?

At this point does it make a difference  ;)

Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: The Headacher on September 18, 2008, 03:42:11 am
I'm sure the guys over @ Distrowatch will love it if we start a DOS attack by scripts continuously clicking VL. That's a good way to get banned from there altogether.

IMO distrowatch is overrated though.

Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 18, 2008, 06:12:14 am
I'm sure the guys over @ Distrowatch will love it if we start a DOS attack by scripts continuously clicking VL. That's a good way to get banned from there altogether.

IMO distrowatch is overrated though.



I don't believe for an instant anyone on this board considered anything so black hat.  I personally enjoyed and got a great deal of amusement plus a good laugh when MOE posted  ;D   And I remained amused, thanks MOE ;D
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: M0E-lnx on September 18, 2008, 06:16:14 am
I'm sure the guys over @ Distrowatch will love it if we start a DOS attack by scripts continuously clicking VL. That's a good way to get banned from there altogether.

IMO distrowatch is overrated though.



I don't believe for an instant anyone on this board considered anything so black hat.  I personally enjoyed and got a great deal of amusement plus a good laugh when MOE posted  ;D   And I remained amused, thanks MOE ;D

Thank you.... I couldn't help myself ! ;)
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 18, 2008, 06:35:18 am
There are a couple ways you could measure VL's popularity using tools you already have.  You could also do it in a way that will aid in a new
users transition.

1. You could simply measure new participation in the forum.

or
2. Take that to another level.
Couldn't a browser pop up on 1st start up of VL with links to the help topics a new user would need the most.  Setting up wireless,  how to use vasm, how to use vasmcc,  how to change from vl-hot to hal, how to get samba going, how to fix a missing menu icon, etc.  Also through this link you could request the user to send his hardware information as an option. (via a copy paste of hard info)

You would get an idea of new usage by tracking the hits or you could require registration.

You could also eliminate some of the most common frustrations that drive some away from vl.

As to point #1:  It's always good business when parameters affecting ones business are understood, and I like the Idea of collecting data that may cause business parameters to vary.  However, collected data must be measured and against what yardstick of popularity will tracking hits from new users be measured?

As to point #2: This is good because any improvement here will translate quickly into customer satisfaction.  This may be the hook needed to transform newbies into Vector addicts.

As to registration:  This may be counter productive.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 18, 2008, 07:51:35 am
Excuse the double post ::)
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: waynev on September 18, 2008, 10:50:50 am
I'm sure the guys over @ Distrowatch will love it if we start a DOS attack by scripts continuously clicking VL. That's a good way to get banned from there altogether.

IMO distrowatch is overrated though.



I don't believe for an instant anyone on this board considered anything so black hat.  I personally enjoyed and got a great deal of amusement plus a good laugh when MOE posted  ;D   And I remained amused, thanks MOE ;D

Dang it!  I had almost completed the script >:(
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: waynev on September 18, 2008, 11:01:07 am
There are a couple ways you could measure VL's popularity using tools you already have.  You could also do it in a way that will aid in a new
users transition.

1. You could simply measure new participation in the forum.

or
2. Take that to another level.
Couldn't a browser pop up on 1st start up of VL with links to the help topics a new user would need the most.  Setting up wireless,  how to use vasm, how to use vasmcc,  how to change from vl-hot to hal, how to get samba going, how to fix a missing menu icon, etc.  Also through this link you could request the user to send his hardware information as an option. (via a copy paste of hard info)

You would get an idea of new usage by tracking the hits or you could require registration.

You could also eliminate some of the most common frustrations that drive some away from vl.

The browser pop idea sounds good.  It would help VL newbies like me too transition.  There are a couple items on your list I never got solved my first time around with VL, and in frustration I moved on.  However I'm back to stay, even though I'm typing this on vindows.  It seems, VL does not want to stay wireless this morning ::)
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 18, 2008, 03:10:25 pm
Since tripRsystem has raised the same issue in two threads I'm posting my response in two threads.  My apologies to those who've read this already...

Sorry, but I just don't see the point in thinking in terms of marketing and conventional business strategies.  Vector Linux makes exactly zero dollars if one new user downloads and installs VL or if a million do.  Yes, a few more people might by SOHO if it's more popular and I suppose that's good.  Most Linux companies make their money selling support and consulting services.  Marketing the new support offerings to businesses makes sense.  Worrying about if we're ranked 15th or 23rd on Distrowatch makes no sense and IMHO simply doesn't matter.

I'm a Linux professional and I would *NEVER* recommend Vector Linux to one of my customers for use either on the desktop or in the server room.  Why not?  When known security issues crop up sometimes someone gets a new package to fix the problem out.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens eventually, and sometimes it never happens at all.  If a security fix is packaged does it get tested and moved to the repositories promptly?  VL's history says no, absolutely not!

Do we inform users of security issues?  Sometimes yes, mostly no.  We have the mechanisms to do it in the forum, on the website, and via RSS.  Everything is in place and it's rarely used.  Look at the website -- no security news since July yet in August both DoS and buffer overflow vulnerabilities were discovered in xine-lib.  The good news is toothandnail did make a new package.  The bad news is that it just got into the patches repository a few days ago.  No information about it was ever disseminated to the users.

If VL wants to be taken seriously it needs to get its act in order when it comes to security.  That probably isn't going to happen on a volunteer basis.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 18, 2008, 05:44:43 pm
Sorry for the error ::)
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 18, 2008, 06:14:57 pm
Since tripRsystem has raised the same issue in two threads I'm posting my response in two threads.  My apologies to those who've read this already...

Sorry, but I just don't see the point in thinking in terms of marketing and conventional business strategies.  Vector Linux makes exactly zero dollars if one new user downloads and installs VL or if a million do.  Yes, a few more people might by SOHO if it's more popular and I suppose that's good.  Most Linux companies make their money selling support and consulting services.  Marketing the new support offerings to businesses makes sense.  Worrying about if we're ranked 15th or 23rd on Distrowatch makes no sense and IMHO simply doesn't matter.

I'm a Linux professional and I would *NEVER* recommend Vector Linux to one of my customers for use either on the desktop or in the server room.  Why not?  When known security issues crop up sometimes someone gets a new package to fix the problem out.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens eventually, and sometimes it never happens at all.  If a security fix is packaged does it get tested and moved to the repositories promptly?  VL's history says no, absolutely not!

Do we inform users of security issues?  Sometimes yes, mostly no.  We have the mechanisms to do it in the forum, on the website, and via RSS.  Everything is in place and it's rarely used.  Look at the website -- no security news since July yet in August both DoS and buffer overflow vulnerabilities were discovered in xine-lib.  The good news is toothandnail did make a new package.  The bad news is that it just got into the patches repository a few days ago.  No information about it was ever disseminated to the users.

If VL wants to be taken seriously it needs to get its act in order when it comes to security.  That probably isn't going to happen on a volunteer basis.

You make an excellent point with regard to VL deficiencies.  Truly VL must address its short comings in these areas to be taken seriously to garner the respect Vector desires.  However, addressing problematic areas should not necessitate shutting down all other areas of VL to address such problems.  VL is an excellent product as it stands and can be promoted on its positives while negatives are taken under advisement and corrected.  Granted, negatives need be quickly addressed and corrected as soon as possible. 

There seems to be some disconnect wherein I'm suggesting VL should be run as a business, this is not the crux of my input, I simply suggest more focus on planning and less on happenstance, managed like a business if you like.

Community perception of where VL takes an equilibrium in ranking is important, how many nebbish want a distro ranked number twenty when just up the road number one is available.  Perception:  It's a strong multiplier when it comes to selling a product, (and I'm not talking about dollars and cents here.)  and if selling VL to the community is not what this is all about, then I give up. 

Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 18, 2008, 09:05:25 pm
Well... there is serious Linux community resistance to any distro deemed to be "commercial" so talking about VL in business terms won't help there.

As much as I like VL the only reason I can run it is because my work forces me to keep up on security issues and I patch whether VL does or not.  IMHO no distro can be called "excellent" if it doesn't allow users to easily keep it secure.  VL doesn't and that is a HUGE shortcoming IMHO.  Zenwalk has the same shortcoming, FWIW, and they are the other Slackware-based distro that could conceivably challenging the majors if they got their problems squared away.

So... I disagree with you when you say #1 is available.  It isn't.  I've called Vector Linux "very promising" for years.  I've said it's 90% of the way to being able to challenge the major distros for both 5.8 and 5.9.  Until it gets security right and until it has the packages and tools necessary to make internationalization/localization easy it won't move up the rankings much.  As some of our non-native English speakers how much work it takes to localize VL and you'll know what I mean.  It's dirt simple for me to setup a system en français for example in Ubuntu or Fedora/CentOS/RedHat or Suse or Mandriva or Debian.  It's a pain in VL despite the fact that VL hails from a country that is officially bilingual with French as one of the languages.

I volunteer, both in the areas of packaging and now repository maintenance.  I do my part to make things better.  So do many other users.  It still isn't enough.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 18, 2008, 10:27:10 pm
I never implied #1 was available to VL, I did state, however: #1 is available to the community when community members choose a distro. 

Again;  I never suggested VL become commericial. However, I am suggesting that VL think outside the box and simply apply proven commerical principal where it can be applied.  I just want  VL to take a look at what makes the Brown Distro and others such a success, or pick their brain if you like, and then take the meat from that success and apply what ever small measure works to VL; reverse engineering is no stranger to Linux.

Perhaps I'm not reading your post correctly, but it seems to me your guaging your entire argument on the enterprize  fraility of VL and not on the community at large.  Many distros, more succesful than VL, suffer many of the same VL faults you post here.  VL users currently participating on this forum must suffer from these VL delinquents, and yet somehow enjoy the VL model and experience.  I suggest there are many more like us in the community that simply need awaking to the possibilities of VL. 


   
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 18, 2008, 11:19:27 pm
With all due respect, anyone who fails to keep their system secure is playing with fire. In most cases it's ignorance.  To suggest that security is just for the enterprise, well... the first time your system is cracked by someone malicious for no good reason you'll think otherwise.  If your credit card info or your identity is stolen you may really regret not keeping your system secure.  Keeping a Vector Linux system secure should be easy.  As I pointed out earlier we have all the necessary tools and mechanisms in place to make it so.  Right now it's anything but.

Similarly internationalization and localization is not just about the enterprise.  Read through the forum and see for what percentage of our users English isn't a first language.  That number is quite high.

There is an old joke:

What do you call a person who speaks three languages?  Multilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks two languages?  Bilingual.
What do you call someone who speaks one language?  An American.

Most people outside the U.S. and a fair number here in the States are multilingual.  I have family all over the world.  Lots of users would like their systems to work in multiple languages and many prefer their menus, help, dialogs, etc.. in their native language, whatever that is.

There is a lot to like about Vector Linux.  If that wasn't true I wouldn't be here, would I?  Understanding where the weaknesses are is the first step towards improving things.  I also believe the issues I raised are huge ones, not little ones.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: M0E-lnx on September 19, 2008, 05:53:24 am
I have to agree with caitlyn on this one... Security and localization are serious deficiencies that should be addressed.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: Joe1962 on September 19, 2008, 08:43:54 am
Do we inform users of security issues?  Sometimes yes, mostly no.
Once upon a time I took upon myself to check the main security sites daily. Then I would weed out the issues that were relevant to libs and apps included in VL isos and repos, also some of the more popular ones not on the repos. I posted them on the Security Advisories subforum, with some relevant links, mostly within 24 hours, barring a few weekends when I wasn't online. At some point, however, my work and non-work related development tasks made it impossible for me to continue this. I posted asking for new volunteers to take over the task, but never got any. Just checked now and it seems this post has been lost or pruned though.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 19, 2008, 09:00:46 am
Hi, Joe, and everyone else,

If you give me access to post to the security topic I'd be happy to help with that one.  I don't check everything every day but my work does force me to keep abreast of things.

Also, we have a few packagers (rbistofi and toothandnail immediately come to mind) who've been packaging security fixes.  It would be great to announce those there as well as in new package announcements. 

How do we get such announcements to feed to the news section of the new website?  That site is really making VL look bad at the moment by showing security issues but none since July.  It actually makes things look far worse than they really are.

Again, this is one area where I can probably help some.  Ideally there should be one person responsible for this who is knowledgeable but that is difficult in a volunteer/community environment.

-Cait
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: rbistolfi on September 19, 2008, 09:16:11 am
Cait, I am the one updating the website with the security patches information. I have built about ~10 security patches since the last announce there, but for some reason they were not being moved, until uelsk8s kindly moved them to patches. By the time the patches were actually moved, I was too busy to update the website, and decided was more important to make the patches available for the users  concerned about security than the announce itself, so I used my time in that direction.
I  would like to point that even is true that one announce involving about 10 packages was missing, all the patches are available from the repository for the user. I will try to update the site for this weekend, and maybe I could write some code to do it automagically from the repo announcement.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 19, 2008, 09:23:04 am
Thanks, Rodrigo! 

FWIW, I've been helping out with repository management.  You've probably noticed that testing doesn't have much in it at this point, only recently built packages and a couple with issues, and everything else is now in patches or extra where it belongs.  I'm going to try and keep it that way at least until exeterdad reappears.  After that I'll work with him.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: Joe1962 on September 19, 2008, 09:30:59 am
If you give me access to post to the security topic I'd be happy to help with that one.

I made you moderator on that board, normal members can only reply to existing posts there. Let me know if you have any problem.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 19, 2008, 09:52:54 am
Thanks, Joe!
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 19, 2008, 12:52:09 pm
Thank you for the kind words. My problem is Vector has been around longer than Ubuntu, mint or even pclos. In fact we are older than than 90% of the distros on distrowatch but still people do not know vector and still think its a new distro much of the time. We get usually five reviews per release all generally good to excellent
and yet no respect............what are we to do .............after 10 years I am out of ideas.............so new ideas would be good!

Vector

Originally this threads' purpose was to garner new perspectives on solving Vectors' problem as set forth in his post.  Vectors' statement is quite clear i.e.; "People still do not know vector and still think it's a new distro."  I have tried to channel and to keep our dialog relevant to vectors post, however, I have failed.  This thread has degenerated into the nuts and bolts of vl, or, if you like, to the Linux Professionals level of discourse.  Where in the final analysis, nothing new has been put forward.  A continual rehash of technical problems that begin at the beginning of vl and will still be there at the end of vl is not going change the communities perspective of vl.  Nuts and Bolts are important, however, they are always going to be there.  I find the same narrow focus in our organization whenever technical staff are involved because it is difficult to get them to think out of the box and to realize there are possibly problems and solutions different from what they represent.  I see a great number of people on the board with seemingly a great deal of experience with vl.  I simply ask, Why are the nuts and bolts so poorly maintained?  After all vl is your distro not mine.         
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: waynev on September 19, 2008, 01:56:42 pm
Thank you for the kind words. My problem is Vector has been around longer than Ubuntu, mint or even pclos. In fact we are older than than 90% of the distros on distrowatch but still people do not know vector and still think its a new distro much of the time. We get usually five reviews per release all generally good to excellent
and yet no respect............what are we to do .............after 10 years I am out of ideas.............so new ideas would be good!

Vector

Originally this threads' purpose was to garner new perspectives on solving Vectors' problem as set forth in his post.  Vectors' statement is quite clear i.e.; "People still do not know vector and still think it's a new distro."  I have tried to channel and to keep our dialog relevant to vectors post, however, I have failed.  This thread has degenerated into the nuts and bolts of vl, or, if you like, to the Linux Professionals level of discourse.  Where in the final analysis, nothing new has been put forward.  A continual rehash of technical problems that begin at the beginning of vl and will still be there at the end of vl is not going change the communities perspective of vl.  Nuts and Bolts are important, however, they are always going to be there.  I find the same narrow focus in our organization whenever technical staff are involved because it is difficult to get them to think out of the box and to realize there are possibly problems and solutions different from what they represent.  I see a great number of people on the board with seemingly a great deal of experience with vl.  I simply ask, Why are the nuts and bolts so poorly maintained?  After all vl is your distro not mine.         


What happen to victors were new and unknown, or are we now known and old, or is vl just sloppy maintainers?  btw I'm finally on vl soho-preview (wireless) and here i am.  I know I said i would buy SOHO when that happened but geez if vl is as bad as catelyn says i don't think so.  I think I'll take a look at ubuntu.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 19, 2008, 02:34:17 pm
I never said Vector Linux is "bad".  Where do you get this stuff?  I never said it is "poorly maintained" either.  It's way ahead of many (if not most) smaller distros.  We certainly seem to have fewer bugs than Ubuntu does which is one of the main reasons I run this distro.  It's reliable and Ubuntu, for example, is not.

Nuts and bolts?  Not hardly.  Security is one of the basics.  You want us to reach a larger community?  So do I.  It might be nice if we could reach the majority of people in the world for whom English is not a first language.  Those were my points.  If you fix those things you reach a larger community.  The idea that nothing has been accomplished is one that I certainly don't agree with.  The first step to making something, anything better is to identify the problem.  This discussion did shake a few things up and good things are happening as a result.

You want to run Ubuntu instead of SOHO?  Fine.  On my hardware Ubuntu + KDE (Kubuntu) is slower than molasses running uphill in the wintertime.  VL SOHO with KDE runs pretty darned well.  I can use my system with KDE running Vector.  I can't with Kubuntu.

You asked what needs to be done to bring more people to VL.  You didn't like the answers.  They weren't what you expected so now you're ready to throw stones or in waynev's case to jump ship.  Pardon me but I just don't get it.

Huge clue:  there is no perfect operating system.  They all have issues.  The best way to attract new people is to solve issues and to make the OS better.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: lagagnon on September 19, 2008, 02:52:51 pm
I simply ask, Why are the nuts and bolts so poorly maintained? 

And I simply ask in response what in tarnation do you mean by "nuts and bolts" and also please explain what you mean by "poorly maintained"? Surely you cannot expect to throw around such ill-considered meaningless rhetoric without being questioned about it!
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 19, 2008, 03:39:10 pm
   You may have the best cake, but if the guest cannot find you no one will come to the party.  Vl may run like a Swiss watch but until the community learns this nothing happens.  Linux Professionals may tweak and twist vl until the cows come home, but in the end if current thinking prevails vl will remain as it is now, mired in mediocrity.

  Perhaps in another ten years vl can have this discussion once more.  Hopefully your security problems for the whole wide world of non english speakers will be tweaked and twisted for the last time.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 19, 2008, 03:51:26 pm
What a ridiculous last statement.  I think a whole lot of the Linux community knows who we are.  As far as "professionals" are concerned, who would you like working on an OS?  Ignorant amateurs?   What do you want us to do?  Buy advertisements?  Hire marketers?  Who's going to pay for it?  We don't have a billionaire like Mark Shuttleworth to throw money at this distro the way he throws money at Ubuntu.  The best thing a distro developer can do is make the best possible distro.   Oh, and yes, it has to work like a Swiss watch.  A broken clock is right twice a day but who wants a broken clock?

Ubuntu has marketing and hype and a distro that's often broken.  I'd rather be at #20 on Distrowatch with a good distro than #1 with a broken one that often does as much harm as good for the Linux community.

You didn't like our answers.  We didn't embrace whatever ideas you have (I'm still not sure what they are, BTW) so you lash out at Vector Linux.  You know what?  If you can make a better distro than those who develop and maintain Vector Linux with smoke and mirrors and marketing and no "professionals" then more power to you.  You come here with nebulous talk about business models and marketing with no concrete suggestions and get all huffy and critical when people talk about real world things that can make the distro better.

I'm with lagagnon on this one.  Where do you come off with all this?  If you trivialize security you are an ignorant idiot.  If the majority of people in the world who speak languages other than English don't matter to you you're an idiot.  How can we reach out to more people if we don't speak their languages?

Take all the nuts and bolts out of your car and see how well it runs.

OK, I'm done with this thread.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: rbistolfi on September 19, 2008, 04:54:22 pm
Well I think is time for a slow down. I don't get the point of this discussion, because there is not an exclusive disjunction. Security is important, and also marketing is important. I don't see any offensive in tripleRsystem post's, and nothing on them contradicting Caitlyn's posts and viceversa (well, calling people "idiot" is a bit offensive ;)). We can improve the distro from a technical viewpoint, and we can improve it from a marketing or "business architecture" viewpoint too. Why you are discussing about this like two things that cant be done at the same time is a mystery to me.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 19, 2008, 06:10:22 pm
Well I think is time for a slow down. I don't get the point of this discussion, because there is not an exclusive disjunction. Security is important, and also marketing is important. I don't see any offensive in tripleRsystem post's, and nothing on them contradicting Caitlyn's posts and viceversa (well, calling people "idiot" is a bit offensive ;)). We can improve the distro from a technical viewpoint, and we can improve it from a marketing or "business architecture" viewpoint too. Why you are discussing about this like two things that cant be done at the same time is a mystery to me.


Thank you. 

I've never ment to imply security or any other vl internal maintenance is wasted effort. I've only attemted to bring out the need to think outside the box if vl is move forward.  There is no doubt vl will be a better distro because of Caitlyn's applied knowledge to vl.  So let's all work together and move vl forward.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: stretchedthin on September 19, 2008, 06:19:22 pm
Whoa easy now, it seems to me that tripleRsystem is just trying to answer the call that started this thread.

quote author=vector link=topic=7294.msg49821#msg49821 date=1221465066]
Thank you for the kind words. My problem is Vector has been around longer than Ubuntu, mint or even pclos. In fact we are older than than 90% of the distros on distrowatch but still people do not know vector and still think its a new distro much of the time. We get usually five reviews per release all generally good to excellent
and yet no respect............what are we to do .............after 10 years I am out of ideas.............so new ideas would be good!

Vector
[/quote]

I have re-read your comments and see nothing negative about them.  I also agree Vector can be better promoted. (No dos bombs, or whatever you called them.)  However, if we are going to advertise a better mousetrap, we have to be confident it is a better mousetrap.  Since VL 6.0 is on the horizon, maybe the best energies can be spent encouraging the development that you believe will make Vector a better solution for a larger number of people.

Really there are probably 100's of different reasons people choose what will be their distro, but finding the magic 20% of the most important ones, that will attract 80% of the users is really how you capture a market. (To continue your business analogy, which I completely understood from the get go.)

Other wise you become a niche player.  And there is nothing wrong with that either, you just have to be comfortable with a smaller market and that's not what I hear in Vectors comment above.

My 2 bits earlier in this thread was to give newbies the answers for the questions they are most likely to be asking right at start up.  In the form of a pop up web page.  In short make it simple by educating before the frustrations rather than after them.

I've also read user comments in this forum who would like GSlapt to be more consistent with descriptions of the application and it's dependencies.

Others, simply would like a larger number of applications in the repository.

However, to Caitlyns credit, three of the biggest hot buttons people do have are internationalization, updates / upgrades that just work, and security.

I think the points that sold me are the speed, hardware recognition, good selection of apps on the disk, ease of installation (try adding a home partition to Ubuntu as a newbie), and this forum.

So what do you think we should add,  where is the most juice for the squeeze?





Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 19, 2008, 07:09:33 pm
I have to agree with caitlyn on this one... Security and localization are serious deficiencies that should be addressed.

My dearest Moe, I too believe that security issues must be addressed, but it's not necessary to come to a full stop to address these issues. Marketing and maintenance can move forward together in harmony.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: tripleRsystem on September 19, 2008, 07:33:18 pm
I simply ask, Why are the nuts and bolts so poorly maintained? 

And I simply ask in response what in tarnation do you mean by "nuts and bolts" and also please explain what you mean by "poorly maintained"? Surely you cannot expect to throw around such ill-considered meaningless rhetoric without being questioned about it!

I draw my conclusion from post such as this:  You may find the full post on this thread.

I'm a Linux professional and I would *NEVER* recommend Vector Linux to one of my customers for use either on the desktop or in the server room.  Why not?  When known security issues crop up sometimes someone gets a new package to fix the problem out.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens eventually, and sometimes it never happens at all.  If a security fix is packaged does it get tested and moved to the repositories promptly?  VL's history says no, absolutely not!


My words were, perhaps, in poor taste, and I apologize. I am only attempting to illustrate there are equally important needs vl must address beyond internal maintenance if vl it is to move forward.  It’s my understanding per vectors post this is his immediate concern.

What a great Ameican expression "tarnation"  I think it's great.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: waynev on September 19, 2008, 09:14:26 pm
Forget the idea that I going anywhere.  I understand most of what has been posted is just self posturing.  Is the link broken to buy SOHO? I'm wireless again ::) and I will only buy as long as I'm running SOHO wireless to VL ::)  Hey sorry I hijacked the thread, but I'm not the only guilty one.  Where's is the mod to keep this straight, or am I not to supposed to ask ;D
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: vector on September 19, 2008, 11:11:19 pm
hold off on your soho buy we have a new one in a couple of days...........5.9.1 bug fixes security issues and upgrades.
cheers,
Vec
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: waynev on September 20, 2008, 03:49:50 pm
Since tripRsystem has raised the same issue in two threads I'm posting my response in two threads.  My apologies to those who've read this already...

Sorry, but I just don't see the point in thinking in terms of marketing and conventional business strategies.  Vector Linux makes exactly zero dollars if one new user downloads and installs VL or if a million do.  Yes, a few more people might by SOHO if it's more popular and I suppose that's good.  Most Linux companies make their money selling support and consulting services.  Marketing the new support offerings to businesses makes sense.  Worrying about if we're ranked 15th or 23rd on Distrowatch makes no sense and IMHO simply doesn't matter.

I'm a Linux professional and I would *NEVER* recommend Vector Linux to one of my customers for use either on the desktop or in the server room.  Why not?  When known security issues crop up sometimes someone gets a new package to fix the problem out.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens eventually, and sometimes it never happens at all.  If a security fix is packaged does it get tested and moved to the repositories promptly?  VL's history says no, absolutely not!

Do we inform users of security issues?  Sometimes yes, mostly no.  We have the mechanisms to do it in the forum, on the website, and via RSS.  Everything is in place and it's rarely used.  Look at the website -- no security news since July yet in August both DoS and buffer overflow vulnerabilities were discovered in xine-lib.  The good news is toothandnail did make a new package.  The bad news is that it just got into the patches repository a few days ago.  No information about it was ever disseminated to the users.

If VL wants to be taken seriously it needs to get its act in order when it comes to security.  That probably isn't going to happen on a volunteer basis.

A person would need to be outfitted in Mules blinders to think so narrowly.   Geez, all of these things should be normal everyday housekeeping items.   Every Distro faces the same problem in keeping its distro updated and improving security.  So what gives with all this maintenance stuff?  Maintenance won’t translate into broader linux user awareness for VL.   VL may have the most up to date and security tight distro in Linux World but unless the world is told it won’t be known.  That requires some type of get out the good news effort.  I think I read somewhere they call it marketing.   How can anyone with any common sense think that setting in some room crunching code is all that’s required;  NUTS!. 
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 20, 2008, 04:09:13 pm
waynev:  None of the major distros has problems getting security patches on a timely basis.  Show me even one example where Ubuntu, Red Hat/Fedora/CentOS, Suse, Mandriva, Debian, or Slackware has failed to do so over the past few years.  Just one.  You can't do it.  They all take security seriously.  Your claim that every distro faces this problem is pure B.S.!  Again, I challenge you to show me even one documented example. 

Blinders?  You're the one whose nuts if you think this isn't important.  It absolutely prevents us from reaching a wider audience.  I can't think of  anything more important to solve.  I know the developers take this issue VERY seriously even if you don't.

Where on earth do you get the idea that the world isn't told about VL?  There are articles about and reviews of VL all over the net.  What have you done to get the word out?  What makes you think that I don't help get the word out?  Go to the O'Reilly Media website (you know, the folks who are the largest publisher of technical books, including Linux books) and search out how many articles about Vector Linux I've written over the past three years.  The search for my name and Vector Linux on lxer.com, linuxtoday.com, and linux.com.  Tell me again how I have blinders after that or how I or anyone else you're lecturing to has been deficient in getting the word out.

I'm really, really tired of you and your other newbie buddy telling us that we're not doing whatever it is we're supposed to do to let the world know we're here.  I'm also really, really tired of reading the idea that we can ignore our shortcomings and put out crap compared to the major distros and it won't matter so long as we get the word out.

OK, since you see the world so much more clearly than I do how about you or your buddy offer up one concrete suggestion of what we're supposed to be doing to get the word out that we aren't doing already.  I haven't seen one yet.  All I see is a lot of pontificating, spouting off, and claiming that you two newbies no so much bettter than those of us who have been using this distro for years.  Also, while you're at it, tell us how you are going to volunteer to make this distro either better known or better technically.  I've been getting the word out on every major Linux forum.  Have you?  I've been building packages and lately I've helped to maintain our repositories.  What have you done?

Do you still think I have blinders?  Methinks you have no clue whatsoever about what you are talking about.  Do a little Google search next time before making accusations, OK?
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: waynev on September 20, 2008, 04:51:16 pm
waynev:  None of the major distros has problems getting security patches on a timely basis.  Show me even one example where Ubuntu, Red Hat/Fedora/CentOS, Suse, Mandriva, Debian, or Slackware has failed to do so over the past few years.  Just one.  You can't do it.  They all take security seriously.  Your claim that every distro faces this problem is pure B.S.!  Again, I challenge you to show me even one documented example. 

Blinders?  You're the one whose nuts if you think this isn't important.  It absolutely prevents us from reaching a wider audience.  I can't think of  anything more important to solve.  I know the developers take this issue VERY seriously even if you don't.

Where on earth do you get the idea that the world isn't told about VL?  There are articles about and reviews of VL all over the net.  What have you done to get the word out?  What makes you think that I don't help get the word out?  Go to the O'Reilly Media website (you know, the folks who are the largest publisher of technical books, including Linux books) and search out how many articles about Vector Linux I've written over the past three years.  The search for my name and Vector Linux on lxer.com, linuxtoday.com, and linux.com.  Tell me again how I have blinders after that or how I or anyone else you're lecturing to has been deficient in getting the word out.

I'm really, really tired of you and your other newbie buddy telling us that we're not doing whatever it is we're supposed to do to let the world know we're here.  I'm also really, really tired of reading the idea that we can ignore our shortcomings and put out crap compared to the major distros and it won't matter so long as we get the word out.

OK, since you see the world so much more clearly than I do how about you or your buddy offer up one concrete suggestion of what we're supposed to be doing to get the word out that we aren't doing already.  I haven't seen one yet.  All I see is a lot of pontificating, spouting off, and claiming that you two newbies no so much bettter than those of us who have been using this distro for years.  Also, while you're at it, tell us how you are going to volunteer to make this distro either better known or better technically.  I've been getting the word out on every major Linux forum.  Have you?  I've been building packages and lately I've helped to maintain our repositories.  What have you done?

Do you still think I have blinders?  Methinks you have no clue whatsoever about what you are talking about.  Do a little Google search next time before making accusations, OK?

I found you posting the same stuff on two threads so I just followed your lead, but of course you are special.  Please note I did not call you Idiot; Idiot.  BTW; you forgot to tell me your a Linux Professional.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: caitlyn on September 20, 2008, 05:09:09 pm
When you can't answer my questions or offer even one concrete suggestion you retreat to name calling.  Very nice.  Where did I call you an idiot? 

Again, what aren't we doing to get the word out?  What would you do differently?  I'd really like some concrete suggestions.  Since you're busy criticizing VL for not publicizing itself you must have some, right? 

What are you doing to help Vector Linux?  What contribution have you made?  OK, you're new so that's not entirely fair.  What contribution are you going to make?

My own contribution is tiny, as in truly miniscule compared to many who hang out on this forum.  You're so focused on publicity and marketing and you obviously think you know way more about it than I do.  After all, you've decided I'm an idiot.  So... please, look at what I've done to publicize VL and tell me what I'm doing wrong.  Explain to me how to get those blinders off.  After all, I'm such an idiot in your eyes you must know more than I do.  Tell me what's wrong with these:

http://news.oreilly.com/2008/07/vector-linux-soho-59-deluxe-no-1.html
http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/06/kde_built_for_speed_vector_lin.html
http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/09/vector-linux-partners-with-sqi.html
http://www.linux.org/news/2007/06/26/0005.html
http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2007091302126OSRL
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=101015
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=90766
http://www.reviewlinux.com/forums/news/9333-gnome-2-18-for-vector-linux-5-8-a.html
http://blog.ro-design.net/index.php/2008/09/10/vector-linux-partners-with-sqi-to-provide-support-infrastructure.html
http://www.linux.com/feed/142632
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20080728
http://www.home-of-linux.org/vector-linux-586rc1-released/
http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/01/new_releasecool_canadian_distr.html
http://www.opensourceguild.com/index.php?module=RSS&func=display&fid=6
http://labs.daylife.com/journalist/caitlyn_martin

I could post more samples but I think this is enough.  Now, please, help me.  Show me where my blinders are.  Explain to me how I'm not getting the word out and how I'm harming Vector Linux by not doing marketing or promotion in a good way.  Show me the right way to do it.
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: wcs on September 22, 2008, 01:45:34 am
Going back to a suggestions made before, I agree that localisation is pretty important.
In fact, I think that alone could get the word out about vl quite a bit. I suppose it's a "marketing" issue even more than a "technical" one, although as others have pointed out, there's no real dichotomy in there.

I've offered to work on localisation for Portuguese at some point, and am still up for it, if there's any coordinated localisation project going on.
I hope to be less busy in about a month, and could start by translating the text in VL utilities and the like.

A tiny contribution, but hey, there are at least 176,000,000 native speakers of Portuguese.  ;)
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=por (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=por)
Title: Re: VL is looking good
Post by: rbistolfi on September 23, 2008, 08:32:38 am
Hi wcs, the first thing to do is to put some docs together, I started with a small thing here:
http://vlocity.org/devel/node/13