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Author Topic: VectorLinux SOHO Beta3 bug reports and suggestions  (Read 18683 times)
prince
Vectorite
***
Posts: 183


« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2010, 01:05:55 pm »

True, I do agree about the blinking lights and did notice that nothing happens when I click on it until those little network icons are ready.
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caieng
Member
*
Posts: 81


« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2010, 02:08:27 pm »

Quote from: Daniel
VL is also designed to run well on older computers.(my emphasis)
I am keen to learn how to install beta3 on any one of my four PIII computers....Older versions 6 VL install satisfactorily on all four.  At this time, all four crash, moe suggested "tui", without however, explaining (1) how to invoke this magic command, nor (2) why the graphic installer fails....

CAI ENG
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M0E-lnx
Administrator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 3192



« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2010, 02:24:37 pm »

There is nothing 'magic' or anything to 'invoke' at all.
As soon as you turn your computer on, you should be presented with a LILO or GRUB boot menu.
This manu contains entries like
Vectorlinux
Vectorlinux-tui
Vectorlinux-gui

The actual terminology varies from one bootloader to the other, but generally, both include the string 'tui' on at least one entry.

Just press the arrow keys to select which OS to boot.

Second.
the SOHO Beta is probably not designed for your hardware. On a PIII, I wouldn't put anything except vl-light. the KDE desktop will not like your CPU @ all.

Even though the GUI installer is being debugged, and I do have confidence that it is at it's best it's ever been now, I no confidence that SOHO will be useable for you on that box.
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caieng
Member
*
Posts: 81


« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2010, 03:52:41 pm »

Quote from: Moe
As soon as you turn your computer on,
Power on:
"To install Vector Linux SOHO...."  is what I see.

I type Linux-tui and receive an error message.

If I wait about a minute, the computer boots, "by magic", i.e. without my doing anything, and brings up a blue screen, which says, loading installer, and after about one more minute, the cdrom tray opens, and the computer reboots.

I type vector linux-tui, error message:  Could not find kernel image: vector
I type linux tui, without the hyphen, and without the word vector, and now it starts up in text mode, then halts, cursor blinking.  waiting for godot.

The last message was "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(1,0)
Pid: 1,com: swapper Not tainted 2.6.31.11 #1
Call Trace:
[hex codes] panic+0x51/0x100
etc,
etc,
last one:
[hex codes] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10"

CAI ENG
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M0E-lnx
Administrator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 3192



« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2010, 04:21:04 pm »

NOT WITH THE INSTALL CD...JUST YOUR INSTALLED SYSTEM.

BUT IF YOU WANT TO USE THE INSTALL CD, YOU CAN...YOU JUST NEED TO KNOW WHICH PARTITION YOU USED AS ROOT FOR THE INSTALLATION.
TYPE THIS..IN LOWERCASE LETTERS (MY PHONE HAS ISSUES ,SO IT ONLY TYPES IN UPPSERCASE).


LINUX ROOT=/DEV/HDA1 RO VGA=791 2

REMEMBER... LOWERCASE LETTERS AND REPLACE /DEV/HDA1 WITH YOUR ROOT PARTITION
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newt
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1132



« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2010, 05:05:59 pm »

M0E: I do not think that caieng has been able to successfully install B3.  In the first page of threads caieng mentions "Improvement:  All four computers upon which I have tested the newest version, beta three, now boot.  Hurrah.  One bug fixed." but I think all caieng means is that the systems will boot from the B3 cd image properly - not necessarily install correctly. To me, it sounds like caieng is booting from the install media correctly but when the installation routine reaches the 'logging into root' phase (switching to GUI mode) the system is shutting down rather than switching to gui mode.  Maybe a graphics driver issue?

CAI ENG: If the above description sounds correct then the 'linux tui' option you're using at the boot prompt is attempting to take you to the TUI (text) installer on the CD rather than the GUI (graphical) installer.  I do not believe that the TUI installer is complete and working yet, which would explain why your systems are hanging at a blinking cursor (waiting for godot).  If your troubles (i.e. the shutting down 'init 6' problem) are truly happening during the GUI installation routine then it would be good for the developers to know what graphics cards are in your systems - as a starting point.  I may not be the graphics cards at all but some other hardware. Are all four of your systems identical or do the hardware vary from system to system?

Then again, maybe I've misunderstood something that's been said and I just wasted my time Cheesy
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GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2567


« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2010, 09:19:55 pm »

the SOHO Beta is probably not designed for your hardware. On a PIII, I wouldn't put anything except vl-light. the KDE desktop will not like your CPU @ all.

I must disagree, depending on where on the PIII spectrum the particular PIII is. I am testing SOHO Beta 3 on a 1.3 GHz Celeron Tualatin, which is in the PIII class. It runs well--not speedy, but fast enough to get real work done and not bore me to death with waiting. The 1 gig of RAM helps. I hate to think of using SOHO on less than a gig, but I think any PIII on the higher end of the spectrum and a gig or more of RAM should be satisfactory for anything but very CPU-intensive tasks.

KDE4 offers many options and if it's at all like Windows, more eye candy means more work for the computer. I keep the eye candy under control on this computer. I don't think KDE4 will run badly on a higher-end PIII if the fancier effects are turned off.

I've run every version of VectorLinux on this computer and they've all been good performers. VL6 Standard is my favorite. I can't tell much difference on this computer between Standard and VL6 Light.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2567


« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2010, 09:57:16 pm »

4)No Vxcam, Chestnut Dialer, Deluge, Nicotine,Cabos,Banshee,Boxee, or  even Compiz by default.

I've seen those names but none were anything I've wanted, so I don't want them installed by default. If I do need one or more of them, I'd install from the repos if the programs are there. For example, I don't have a modem and don't use dialup. What use would Chestnut Dialer be to me?

KDE4 incorporates much of the eye candy of Compiz. I wouldn't want it installed by default. On my aging Celeron computer, I avoid eye candy. In looking through options for KDE4, I notice you can have a cube and all sorts of swooping, falling apart, twisting away, and similar goofy stuff for closing windows. So even Compiz fans may decide they don't need it because they can get the same effects with KDE4.

Quote
Despite the above, you guys are very talented.  I think the time has come for you to start a database of these issues and make it mandatory (or list as helpful) that these users include the system (specs) that they are running the Vector Linux on. This would help you recommend to users the supported system that works best with Vector Linux. I would really hate to see all your talents derailed. Trying to be a one-size-fits-all ain't easy. Even with Microsoft (and all the kings horses, riches and men) must of sent out recommended specs or instruction sets in order to work harmoniously with their operating environment/system . You see Apple/Mac don't have much of those issues. There seems to be better results and less issues running Linux with AMD. I think a rated recommended hardware list would help.  Trying to be all things to all people can be a time consuming and expensive proposition. While Fedora is getting very sophisticated, it would pay justice for Vector Linux to rate hardware, too.

And just how would VectorLinux rate hardware? VL is not a distro with a big company or billionaire behind it. There is no way for the devs to "rate" hardware except see how it works on their own computers and rely on reports from beta testers like us.

As for one-size-fits-all, VectorLinux has Light, Standard, SOHO, and Light Live versions. Obviously, their minimum requirements are less for Light and highest for SOHO. There are minimum requirements listed for each version, though you may have to look for it. I'm also not sure how up-to-date the suggested minimums, as the required disk space seems to be too small for the current versions. I really don't know how much more VL could do to accommodate users with hardware ranging from nearly antique to state of the art.

"There seems to be better results and less issues running Linux with AMD."

What is your basis for saying this? I have installed VL on Intel and AMD computers and haven't had problems with either. Right now I'm using an Intel Celeron, an Intel Mobile Celeron, and an AMD Athlon 64 X2.

The philosophy behind VectorLinux is to fit the basic distro on one CD (two for SOHO) and to keep older hardware in mind or allow the user to customize the basic system. This means not including the kitchen sink in the system as it comes up after installation.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
vector
Administrator
Vectorite
*****
Posts: 479



« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2010, 12:44:15 am »

Quote
The philosophy behind VectorLinux is to fit the basic distro on one CD (two for SOHO) and to keep older hardware in mind or allow the user to customize the basic system. This means not including the kitchen sink in the system as it comes up after installation.

Well said Granny ........................ Smiley
That sums it up..........we give you the basics and then some, want more roll up your sleeves.

Cheers,
Vec
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caieng
Member
*
Posts: 81


« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2010, 03:42:36 am »

Quote from: newt
...but I think all caieng means is that the systems will boot from the B3 cd image properly - not necessarily install correctly. To me, it sounds like caieng is booting from the install media correctly but when the installation routine reaches the 'logging into root' phase (switching to GUI mode) the system is shutting down rather than switching to gui mode.  Maybe a graphics driver issue?
Thanks newt, exactly right.

As I have (unsuccessfully) tried to explain, SOHO beta 3, unlike other versions of VL 6.0, fails to install on any of four different PIII systems, although it does install on more contemporary devices.  The distinction between Beta 3 and Beta 2 is this:  I could not even boot beta 2 on three of the four computers.

Quote from: newt
GUI installation routine then it would be good for the developers to know what graphics cards are in your systems - as a starting point.
Well, newt, I don't disagree with you, although, I doubt that my problem here is idiosyncratic, i.e. something peculiar about my hardware.....

Three of my PIII systems are Tualatin's, two with Biostar M6VLR motherboards, one with DFI CA64 motherboard.  The former rely upon VIA VIA VT8601A / VT82C686B which includes the Trident Blade 3D core graphics chip set, and the latter VIA 82694T/82C686B with a separate graphics controller, S3 Savage 4.

The fourth computer is an IBM thinkpad a21 which employs ATI RAGE mobility graphics controller.

Thus, how likely is it that the problem relates to a graphics controller, given three different chips all with the same failure problem?

CAI ENG
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caieng
Member
*
Posts: 81


« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2010, 04:31:41 am »

Quote from: Vector
That sums it up..........we give you the basics and then some, want more roll up your sleeves.
Sorry to be always the naysayer, on the forum.

I simply disagree, completely, with this assertion.

"the basics", balderdash.
nonsense.

Here's the basics:  WHAT IS SOHO?
SOHO is an acronym.  It designates "Small Office Home Office".

Do you agree, thus far, or not?

If you agree, thus far, then, does it not follow, that the functions of a small office, or home office, DO NOT EMBRACE limiting access to the capabilities of the computers in the office?  Unlike those terrible days of fifty years ago, when I was a student, single computer resources are NOT MEANT to be shared, among two or more employees in a SOHO environment, but rather, each user has his/her own computer. 

Can you understand that?Huh

Do you comprehend what I am writing?

SOHO means the very opposite, the exact opposite, of what you are providing, Vector, by insisting on use of the 1960's model UNIX environment, an environment which evolved back in the days when we all had to get login ids and passwords, assigned by the system manager, to use a damn word processor.

Jettison all of the unix crap, and you have the starting point for SOHO.  One person, one or more computers, all to himself/herself.  I use seven, myself, daily in my own SOHO environment.  Planning on getting an eighth.  Every aspect of the computer is under the control of the operator, in a SOHO environment. 

There is absolutely NO NEED for the distinction between "user", or "root" in a SOHO environment.  So, NO, you are NOT giving out the basics, and for everything else roll up our sleeves.  Absolutely wrong.  What you are doing, is simply copying what everyone else has been doing, incorrectly, for the past four decades.  If you were providing the "basics", you would be issuing a distribution which did NOT require logging in, by anyone.  If some retarded morons wanted to go back to the museum days of forty years ago, then let them roll up their sleeves, to add the additional functionality of a login manager.  Me, I just want power on, desktop appears, one click to the internet.  period.  End of story. That's what 99% of SOHO owners want. SOHO means business people.  Time for  us is money.  Time wasted trying to install a defective Beta 3 is money lost. 

SOHO Boot up time, max:  five seconds on a modern 3 GHz cpu with 4 Gbytes memory.  My old version of win95 boots up faster than any existing Linux distro.  That's shameful.  SOHO above all else, must be responsive to the needs of the business environment, not the needs of the UNIX preservation society.

Quote from: GrannyGeek
KDE4 incorporates much of the eye candy of Compiz. I wouldn't want it installed by default. On my aging Celeron computer, I avoid eye candy.
No disagreement, however, I have KDE 4 installed on one of my Tualatins with only half a gigabyte of RAM, running Slackware 13.0, and it works fine.  Its not terribly convincing, it certainly isn't worthy of demonstration.  It is very slow to do anything, but, as long as I don't ask much of it, it runs.   (Unlike VL 6.0 SOHO!!!)

CAI ENG
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Daniel
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 704


WWW
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2010, 06:37:57 am »

There is absolutely NO NEED for the distinction between "user", or "root" in a SOHO environment.

Running as "user" is more secure than running as root. If you are running as root and browsing the web or something and some kind of malware attacks you, then (if it's capable of attacking linux) it could potentially destroy your entire system. If however, you are running as a user and some malware attacks you, then the most it could do is destroy that user's account because it wouldn't be running with root permissions and therefore wouldn't have the ability to run commands that would affect the entire system.

Me, I just want power on, desktop appears, one click to the internet.  period.  End of story.

You could set the login manager to log you in automatically. You could set a web browser to come up at boot.

I have KDE 4 installed on one of my Tualatins with only half a gigabyte of RAM, running Slackware 13.0, and it works fine.  Its not terribly convincing, it certainly isn't worthy of demonstration.  It is very slow to do anything, but, as long as I don't ask much of it, it runs.

Just to show how low you can go on system resources with SOHO (and still be usable), as my signatures states, I run 5.9.1 SOHO (w/KDE 3.5) on my 850mhz AMD Duron with 256mb of memory and it runs well enough for me to do most of the stuff I want it to do. (I'm not sure how an 850mhz AMD translates to an Intel though)
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The following sentence is true. The previous sentence is false.

VL 6.0 SOHO KDE-Classic on 2.3 Ghz Dual-core AMD with 3 Gigs of RAM
newt
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1132



« Reply #42 on: January 27, 2010, 06:53:06 am »

caieng,

Remember, this is a Beta product you're testing. It's called 'Beta' for a reason of which you should know. If you want to assist in the Beta testing then proceed but be warned that the process may require more effort on your part than normal.  The extra effort now translates to a cleaner finished product later which, hopefully, will not cause others the same troubles you've had.

First and foremost, I would love a way for you to confirm that the CD image you have downloaded is 100% correct (md5). I would also love a way for you to confirm that the burnt CD contents are 100% correct - not sure how.

When booting the installer from the CD, at the boot prompt type 'gui 2' (no quotes).  This should do the normal boot process however stop just before going to GUI (just after logging in as root but before GUI) and should drop you at the command line. From this point you can try a 'startx' which will likely fail, however will log much of the errors to the screen. Please provide any pertinent error information that you see.

Next, test a different graphics driver (xorg.conf file). In /etc/X11/ you should find a few xorg.conf files. Try this: rename 'xorg.conf' to 'xorg.conf.old' and rename the fbdev xorg file to 'xorg.conf', then startx. This will attempt to start X using the framebuffer device driver. If this works, you'll be limited to a terribly low resolution but would be enough resolution to install the Beta. If X won't start, again rename the fbdev xorg file back to it's original name, and rename the vesa xorg file to xorg.conf. Again, try to startx.

Let us know how it goes.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 06:56:25 am by newt » Logged
Daniel
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 704


WWW
« Reply #43 on: January 27, 2010, 08:21:10 am »

I would also love a way for you to confirm that the burnt CD contents are 100% correct - not sure how.

K3B has a checkbox option to "verify burned content".
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The following sentence is true. The previous sentence is false.

VL 6.0 SOHO KDE-Classic on 2.3 Ghz Dual-core AMD with 3 Gigs of RAM
caieng
Member
*
Posts: 81


« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2010, 10:31:36 am »

Quote from: newt
First and foremost, I would love a way for you to confirm that the CD image you have downloaded is 100% correct (md5). I would also love a way for you to confirm that the burnt CD contents are 100% correct - not sure how.
Thanks newt!!!
Well, and I agree, this is a tad half assed, but, as I previously have written, the cd that I have downloaded, works very well with modern computers, i.e. P4 with 4 gb memory.

I am only having trouble with installing SOHO on these four PIII computers.

Quote from: newt
When booting the installer from the CD, at the boot prompt type 'gui 2' (no quotes).
Testing with the IBM Thinkpad, 800 MHz PIII.  Thank you newt.   Works!!!

asks me to login
I type in root
I receive a message:  Welcome to linux 2.6.31.11.  Bravo.
now I have a prompt.
I will type in startx, and see what happens:

nothing.
Ok.
better go back and read some more of newt's message:

Quote from: newt
From this point you can try a 'startx' which will likely fail, however will log much of the errors to the screen. Please provide any pertinent error information that you see.
Yes, nothing happened.  Let me try again, this time, I will try hitting the escape key, sometimes that gives a bit of information....

nope, nothing.  Just sits there.

I type cd /etc/X11
then ls
here's what I see:
Quote
app-defaults/ rgb.txt xkb/ xorg.conf xorg.conf-fbdev xorg.conf-vesa xserver/

Now with slackware 13.0, to obtain the proper resolution on my three Tualatins (but not with the IBM Thinkpad!!! haha, why???), I need to rename the xorg.conf-vesa to xorg.conf, which I accomplish using the cp command.  That took me a couple of months to investigate.  However it does work, as counterintuitive as it seems, to me at least, if no one else....

If I fail to rename that file, then, with Slackware (but not with Puppy Linux!!!) all of my Tualatin computers display incorrectly, at 800x600, with no hope of changing the resolution to the correct 1024x768.  If I instead install Ubuntu, Debian, Fedora, or any of their derivatives, on any of my Tualatin computers, I cannot achieve 1024x768, no matter what I do.  At least with Slackware, I can make the change, and achieve 1024 x 768.  Puppy Linux, to date, is the only distro which brings up the correct, i.e. the win95 cmparable resolution, of 1024 x 768, without any manoeuvres on my part.

Quote from: newt
Next, test a different graphics driver (xorg.conf file). In /etc/X11/ you should find a few xorg.conf files. Try this: rename 'xorg.conf' to 'xorg.conf.old' and rename the fbdev xorg file to 'xorg.conf', then startx.

1.  cp xorg.conf xorg.conf.old
2.  cp xorg.conf-fbdev xorg.conf

3.  startx

nothing happens.

# cursor blinking.  Waiting for Godot.

Quote from: newt
If X won't start, again rename the fbdev xorg file back to it's original name, and rename the vesa xorg file to xorg.conf. Again, try to startx.
Did it.  Nothing changes.  cursor blinking.....

CAI ENG
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 10:38:57 am by caieng » Logged
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