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Author Topic: SOHO RC2 Bug Reports and Suggestions  (Read 7605 times)
Dweeberkitty
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« on: April 27, 2010, 06:57:10 am »

The new Release Candidate (ver. 2) of VL-6.0 SOHO can be downloaded here:

http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-6.0/iso-test/VL6.0-SOHO-RC2-CD2.iso
http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-6.0/iso-test/VL6.0-SOHO-RC2.iso

Please post bug reports and suggestions in this thread.
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Desktop: Intel Pentium D 3.33Ghz, 320GB hard drive, 2 gigs DDR2 533mhz RAM, NVIDIA Geforce 7800 GS, X2GEN 22" widescreen monitor;
Laptop: Dell Mini 9, Intel Atom 1.6Ghz, 1GB ram
Multimedia Bonus Disc website: http://www.vectorlinuxsolutions.com/
caieng
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Posts: 81


« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 10:02:51 am »

I erred by submitting a duplicate thread, upon failing to notice that this thread had already been setup by Dweeberkitty.  Sorry for the inconvenience.  I wrongly imagined that the more recent threads were situated on top, and therefore did not see that Dweeb had already setup this thread.  Apologies for being so careless.

I have downloaded successfully, this newest version, SOHO RC-2, and it booted up, fine, however, with inadequate resolution, i.e. 800 x 600, instead of 1024 x 768.  I suspect that this is the same problem previously commented on a couple of months back at this forum, with regard to some of the other beta releases. 

The computers I employ date from 8 - 10 years ago, (seems like only yesterday that I assembled them from parts manufactured in exotic lands, far from the madding crowd.)

In computer thinking, of course, these are obsolete devices.  They work well, and my particular applications don't require bigger or fancier machines.  So, I would like this SOHO distro to work on them, as does Vector 6.0 Lite, at the proper resolution, 1024 x 768, without any fussing about required from the user. 

There is a hint of what's wrong with SOHO RC-2, when the user responds to the prompt inquiring about which components to install (a nice feature of the installer, by the way, much appreciated...), and discovers that the team included drivers for ATI, Nvidea, and some others, for the user to select, BUT DID NOT INCLUDE THE TWO VIDEO controllers of interest to me:

Trident Cyber Blade, i/1 AGP
S3 Savage 4 AGP

So, if it is of interest to have me test this distribution for my own home office environment, (and perhaps that is not the case) then, I need to ask that those two video drivers, (which obviously must have been inserted into the Vector Lite edition,) be included in the forthcoming revision of SOHO, though, I have already mentioned this same problem in previous posts, without any result, so I am not holding my breath....

None of this really matters too much for most Vectorites, I presume, because most users don't waste their time with such ancient P3 computers.  Furthermore, as most forum members realize, Vector Linux is NOT one of the dozen distributions, among the top 100 listed at distrowatch.com, intended for use with OLD COMPUTERS, right?

Ooops...

WRONG.

Vector IS one of those dozen distributions specifically geared towards OLD computers, according to distrowatch.  Hmm.  Well, may I humbly request that the architects of SOHO reflect on this situation:   I observed, attentively, your inclusion of the category "older computers" for the user to select, in deciding which packages to install.  GOOD, nice feature!!!  However, it would have been even better, if the installer had recognized the video controller, (without need for any hand waving from the user,) AS DOES VECTOR LINUX LITE 6.0, and present to the prospective user of this software, the ubiquitous small business owner, the proper screen resolution.

Now we come, after that long winded philosophical discourse, to the real meat and potatoes of this post:

My attempt to install SOHO RC-2 on the P3 computer has FAILED, because of the final step in the installation process, the "configuration", specifically, upon reaching the GRUB/LILO installer menu.

I don't know if it is a bug or not, but the field marked initrd is blank, and the installer gives an error message, and then crashes.
I had chosen LILO (far superior in my opinion, to GRUB 1 or 2), install to root partition, (NOT the MBR, holy cow!), and no need to show windows 98 or Win XP.
After choosing those options, I clicked on the appropriate "next" button, and the system crashed.

CAI ENG
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retired1af
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Posts: 1267



« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 10:46:55 am »

I think there comes a point to where something that is 10 years old is going to have to be written off with the newest distros. ATI has completely dropped driver support for it's older cards and chipsets, and I believe x.org has also dropped support for the oldest of the old. There are other VL flavors that will run on the older machines. But to expect to be able to use that 10 year old machine forever with the newest of releases is more than unrealistic.
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GrannyGeek
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 11:33:12 am »

I really don't think SOHO is a good choice for such old machines. Why bother with it, when VL Light is so good for slow computers?

I'm writing this on my old 1.3 Ghz Celeron, my oldest and slowest computer. I pretty much detest KDE but I like getting a distro that is up-to-date with kernel, libraries, etc., and I also am conscientious about testing VL, so I have been installing SOHO on it during the beta cycle. But because I don't like KDE, I've installed XFce 4.6.1 as my desktop environment (while leaving KDE there).

I've noticed that when I run KDE on this computer, it's noticeably slower, things jerk around more, apps take longer to start. XFce, on the other hand, runs well, not much slower than Standard or even Light on this same computer. So I don't know why anyone would want to run KDE on an old machine. Performance will suffer compared with Light and even SOHO.

retired1af is right about ATI dropping driver support for older cards. This Celeron (PIII class) has an ATI Radeon 9200 card with 128 megs of video memory and it's been years since ATI provided a proprietary driver that worked with this card. The xorg radeon driver does an acceptible job, as I am not a gamer or creator of 3D stuff.

By the way, when you are offered things to select when you are installing, the ATI and NVidia drivers offered are the proprietary drivers. For all other video cards you are not offered specific drivers. They are part of xorg, so if xorg doesn't include the driver you need and vesa doesn't work, you'll have to get it from somewhere else. As far as I know, it's always been this way.
--GrannyGeek
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Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
retired1af
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Vectorian
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Posts: 1267



« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 01:05:46 pm »

Vector IS one of those dozen distributions specifically geared towards OLD computers, according to distrowatch.  Hmm.  Well, may I humbly request that the architects of SOHO reflect on this situation:   I observed, attentively, your inclusion of the category "older computers" for the user to select, in deciding which packages to install.  GOOD, nice feature!!!  However, it would have been even better, if the installer had recognized the video controller, (without need for any hand waving from the user,) AS DOES VECTOR LINUX LITE 6.0, and present to the prospective user of this software, the ubiquitous small business owner, the proper screen resolution.

The more I thought on this, the more I felt a more detailed response was in order.

You're comparing apples and oranges when you compare VL 6 Lite to SOHO. Please. Let's get real here, shall we? You're comparing a bare bones distro to one that has all the bells and whistles compiled into it. What's wrong with this picture? Of course 6 Lite is going to work on more systems. And when you start bringing computers that were manufactured when Moses was searching for the promised land, expecting the latest version of SOHO (which has the latest goodies compiled into it) to work is beyond unrealistic. Yes, VL works great on older machines. Expecting it to work on ALL ancient machines is asinine. Expecting SOHO 6 to work flawlessly on a 10 year old system is akin to expecting Windows 7 to work on an old i386. It ain't gonna happen.
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retired1af
Packager
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Posts: 1267



« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 03:24:00 pm »

Finally got it downloaded and installed. As usual, flawless install. Still won't take the proprietary driver for Linux. Suspect that my poor ol' ATI chipset is no longer supported with this version. **sigh** Bummer.

On a happier note, just tried Dragon and it recognized and started to play a DVD. Will check out mplayer shortly and download VLC and Xine as well.
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prince
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 04:23:21 pm »

"Expecting it to work on ALL ancient machines is ...." 

That's what I was talking about.
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MikeCindi
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Posts: 1073


« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 04:34:40 pm »

Install went well until running the nvidia-latest which failed to install. The info in the /var/log/nvidia-installer.log states that the gcc version to compile the kernel was 4.2 but the current version is 4.4. "The kernel module loader rejects kernel modules built with a version of gcc that does not exactly match that of the compiler used to build the running kernel." I don't particularly want to recompile the kernel or downgrade gcc to 4.2 as that would probably damage much. (Actually I'll try the latter as it won't take nearly as much time as recompiling the kernel but this should be remedied with a "rc2.1" or so.)

EDIT: Downgrading gcc 4.4.3 to 4.2.3 allowed me to run the nvidia installer but got me a blank screen. Thus I will reload and try the opensource drivers for a while if that will compile otherwise it'll be vesa.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 04:47:09 pm by MikeCindi » Logged

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toothandnail
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 05:06:06 pm »

Downloaded, installed. No major problems. Well, except that the UID is still set incorrectly when creating a new user. And this, which is very silly on any modern distro (~/.bash_profile):

Code:
#LOCALES ADDITIONS MADE BY THE VL GUI INSTALLER
export LANG=en_US
'set xkbdmap -model pc105 -layout gb'
END OF MODIFICATIONS MADE BY THE VL GUI INSTALLER

Assuming that the locale should be en_US is stupid, especially when the keyboard layout selected is UK. It would be nice if this was done correctly.

Sad Keyboard layout in console is still defaulting to US. I'm about ready to give up. This has been broken since the very first alpha and is still broken.

There is also something seriously wrong with the terminal. If I set /etc/profile.d/lang.sh correctly for my locale (en_GB.utf8) mc is unusable in Konsole. This works correctly with every other distro I've ever run, including VL6.0 standard. Don't know if this is a KDE bug or a VL bug, but its really annoying.

Konsole is hopelessly buggy. I had to make 6 attempts to set it up the way I want it. First it requires fonts to be set twice - once in 'edit current profile' and once in 'manage profiles > edit' with current profile set. In order to remove the menu, I had to go through the same double setting as the fonts, but also tick 'show menu bar' in the right-click context menu, then untick it before the menu bar goes away.

KDE still thinks I live in Gurnsey and will not let me change the locale correctly. It also still cannot work out that the CPU in the machine is capable of throttling, so that has to be done externally.

Digikam is showing images now. I've not got my camera with me, so I've not been able to test it aquiring images from the camera yet.

Open Office seems to be working now as well.

I'm not getting doubling of startup messages every time I start a terminal, which is nice.

Some progress, but there's a lot more needed yet.

Paul.
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retired1af
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 1267



« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 06:03:28 pm »

VLC still won't run. Sad

Code:
retired1:$ vlc
VLC media player 1.0.5 Goldeneye
LibVLC has detected an unusable buggy GNU/libc version.
Please update to version 2.8 or newer.
[0x81bf820] main interface error: no interface module matched "globalhotkeys,none"
[0x81bf820] main interface error: no suitable interface module
[0x804caa0] main libvlc error: interface "globalhotkeys,none" initialization failed
[0x804caa0] main libvlc: Running vlc with the default interface. Use 'cvlc' to use vlc without interface.
libdvdnav: Using dvdnav version 4.1.3
libdvdread: Using libdvdcss version 1.2.10 for DVD access
libdvdnav: DVD Title: IRON_MAN_DOM
libdvdnav: DVD Serial Number: 38F86801
libdvdnav: DVD Title (Alternative): IRON_MAN_DOM
libdvdnav: Unable to find map file '/home/retired1/.dvdnav/IRON_MAN_DOM.map'
libdvdnav: DVD disk reports itself with Region mask 0x00f60000. Regions: 1 4

libdvdread: Attempting to retrieve all CSS keys
libdvdread: This can take a _long_ time, please be patient

libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VIDEO_TS.VOB at 0x0004548b
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_0.VOB at 0x000458a6
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_01_1.VOB at 0x00045916
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_02_0.VOB at 0x000459f1
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_02_1.VOB at 0x00048094
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_03_0.VOB at 0x000606be
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_03_1.VOB at 0x00071c15
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_04_1.VOB at 0x0033c9f3
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Get key for /VIDEO_TS/VTS_05_1.VOB at 0x003c208d
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
libdvdread: Found 5 VTS's
libdvdread: Elapsed time 0
[0xb276c4f0] main input error: ES_OUT_RESET_PCR called
[0xb276c4f0] main input error: ES_OUT_RESET_PCR called
[0xb27d3c98] a52 decoder: A/52 channels:2 samplerate:48000 bitrate:192000
QPainter::begin: Paint device returned engine == 0, type: 1
QPainter::begin: Paint device returned engine == 0, type: 1
QPainter::begin: Paint device returned engine == 0, type: 1
No accelerated IMDCT transform found
[????????] x11 video output error: X11 request 132.19 failed with error code 11:
 BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)
X Error of failed request:  BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)
  Major opcode of failed request:  132 (XVideo)
  Minor opcode of failed request:  19 ()
  Serial number of failed request:  101
  Current serial number in output stream:  102
bodacious:/~

And neither does xine. Sad

Code:
retired1:$ xine
This is xine (X11 gui) - a free video player v0.99.5.
(c) 2000-2007 The xine Team.
X Error of failed request:  BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)
  Major opcode of failed request:  132 (XVideo)
  Minor opcode of failed request:  19 ()
  Serial number of failed request:  7654
  Current serial number in output stream:  7655
bodacious:/~

Mplayer still craps out as well with endless: X11 error: BadAlloc (insufficient resources for operation)1.1% 4 0
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 06:06:41 pm by retired1af » Logged

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Daniel
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 06:44:11 pm »

I got the same error for VLC recently in 6.0 KDE-Classic. I don't know if I did something later but it just started working after a little bit.
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VL 6.0 SOHO KDE-Classic on 2.3 Ghz Dual-core AMD with 3 Gigs of RAM
retired1af
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 1267



« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 10:18:09 pm »

I must say... The more I work with Grub2, the more I like it. The ability to append at the Grub screen is a god send, and updating additional OSs is now a breeze. Just have to figure out the proper way to modify things rather than going straight to grub.cfg.
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GrannyGeek
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 10:43:25 pm »

I installed RC2 on my 1.3 GHz Celeron. GUI installer worked perfectly. By now I know enough to skip setting up a user or a boot loader. I boot from the CD and set up users and LILO (on a floppy disk) after I log into the installed OS. I worked in KDE long enough to complete my setup, upgrade some packages, and install XFce 4.6.1. I also renamed my user directory in /home and copied /home from my SOHO RC1, which saves a tremendous amount of time.

I rebooted into XFce and all is well so far. A few glitches:
*  LILO doesn't list my VL6Light installation. VL Light is on /hda10; my other Linuxes are on /hde, with RC2 being on /hde10.
*  When I click on Hardinfo in VASMCC, nothing happens.
*  Some of the programs in the ISO are older than what's in the repo (I don't mean the ones in testing). Why not the latest Firefox and SeaMonkey? I upgraded all the packages with upgrades listed in Gslapt that were out of testing.

I hope to have time to see what happens with MPlayer, gxine, and VLC tomorrow. I'm very happy with RC2, as I was with RC1.
--GrannyGeek
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Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
caieng
Member
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Posts: 81


« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2010, 03:20:37 am »

 
Quote from: retired1af
I think there comes a point to where something that is 10 years old is going to have to be written off with the newest distros.



Quote from: GrannyGeek
I really don't think SOHO is a good choice for such old machines. Why bother with it,...

then, answering her own question:

Quote from: GrannyGeek
I pretty much detest KDE but I like getting a distro that is up-to-date with kernel, libraries, etc.,

 
Quote from: retired1af
The more I thought on this, the more I felt a more detailed response was in order.

agreed:

 
Quote from: retired1af
VLC still won't run.

That is a very unfortunate situation.

To respond to some of these points above, I recopy below, the data extracted from a recent post I had submitted to the CrunchBang forum:

***************************

machine:  P3 @1.13 GHz, 0.5 GB sdram, SATA hard drive, benchmarks:  2.6 GIPS, 1.5 GFLOPS, memory bandwidth 0.47 GB/sec.  Video:  S3 Savage 4;  motherboard dfi CA64-TC.

Some definitions:

A:  = Puppy Linux 4.3.2, i.e. the most recent version;(my personal favorite)
B:  = Statler (would be the TOP distro in the world, but for such mediocre screen resolution.)
C:  = Mandriva 2010 (KDE)  (only distro, to display 1024 x 768 WITHOUT requiring user input)
D:  = Ubuntu 10.1 (Gnome) (not bad, but not excellent, for it too, displays only 800 x 600--> worthless
E:  = Slackware 13 (KDE) (slow, but steady.  With user massage and coaxing, it will eventually display ok.
F:  = Win 98 (obsolete browser Sea Monkey 1.14 and VLC media player 0.86, but look at the numbers!)
G:  = Win XP slow but steady, only os to offer both current SeaMonkey and VLC media player effortlessly.

"installation time" equals the time measured in minutes from pushing the Reset button, (after loading the cdrom) until music is heard upon clicking on the 256kb/sec OGG icon at Cesky Rozhlas found at
http://www.listenlive.eu/classical.html
Boot time = time in seconds from power on until screen visible without further background activity
Shut down = time needed (seconds) to halt computer (power off)
Browser boot up = time (seconds) needed from clicking on browser icon until it is fully displayed,
Music on:  time needed from clicking on OGG icon until music is heard:

PARAMETER.......................................DISTRO:
.......................................A.........B..........C..........D.........E..........F.........G
Installation time:(min).........20.......17.........80........40........55........85........70
Boot time..(secs)...............40.......80........120.......70........150......54........58
Shut Down.(secs)..............10........12........38.......10.........53........5..........10
Browser startup..(secs).......6.........5..........7..........5..........4..........4..........7
Music on:..(secs)...............8.........5..........19........20........13........13.......12


******************************
I think Vector forum members will agree with me, that what is important here, in discussing this release candidate SOHO RC-2, is that Distrowatch, and other observers will be studying this particular distribution with keen interest, accordingly, it is my opinion, maybe mine alone, in which case, it is irrelevant, that before RC-3 is released, a decision ought to be made by the top leaders of Vector, whether or not VL-6 SOHO 2010 is intended for ONLY modern computers.  If not, as I hope would be the case, i.e. if the decision is made to embrace the P3's of this world as well as the more modern P4's, dual cores, i7's, etc..., then, I would hope that the installer would work as well as Mandriva 2010's installer, which, uniquely, in my experience, presents the user, without requiring ANY input from the user, with a DEFAULT setting of 1024 x 768 for both of these two, supposedly "ancient" video controllers,

Trident Cyber Blade i/1
S3 Savage 4

I note, for the record, that Mandriva 10.0, available since last week, works PERFECTLY on both machines, despite incredible bloat, obviously 100 times worse than anything VL could match, SOHO or not.

Both Mandriva and this release of SOHO will employ KDE, so there is a natural assumption, at least by me, if not some reviewer with more lofty credentials, that the two distros could be compared, side by side, OOPS, no.  Too many problems with VL-6 SOHO installer, especially the final step with Grub versus LILO.  Please try the Mandriva on an old computer, to see for yourselves how an INSTALLATION on OLD computers should run.

Further, please look at the numbers above.  The CrunchBang 10 release is an ALPHA release, not a Beta, and certainly not an RC.  It installs beautifully on BOTH machines, effortlessly, and VERY quickly--look at the numbers.  VLC works like a charm with it.  Lovely sound from both machines.  Here's a question for those who think like retired1af:  how much electrical power (i.e. money) is required to play music from the internet?  (Hint:  a Celeron, 800 MHz on computer A, and a 3 GHZ dual core on computer B BOTH SOUND THE SAME.)  Do you suppose that the Small Home Office environment requires, favors, or disregards MUSIC?  (Hint #2, No VLC = No interest from this SOHO owner)

For Vector SOHO to succeed, as we all desire, then, some significant changes need to occur, IF the leaders seek to continue advocating its use with OLD computers, in my opinion.  It is impossible for me, to accept the argument that several VL forum members have proposed, namely, that "old" computers, i.e. PIII era devices, are beyond help, and one should not expect a modern Linux distro to operate effectively on them, i.e. they are best suited for disposal at the nearest trash receptacle.  I write "impossible" because I have just installed both bloatware king Mandriva, and the newest alpha on the block, from CrunchBang (Debian based), EFFORTLESSLY on the same two "old" computers.  Why should I expect or accept anything less from VL?

regards,
CAI ENG
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 09:21:45 am by caieng » Logged
MikeCindi
Tester
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1073


« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2010, 04:08:34 am »

So far so good for me (except nvidia setup). I have had gkrellm running without any KDE crashes. As GG mentioned hardinfo is not working (because it's not installed). Interestingly enough VBox (3.1.6) installed. It has a few kernel modules that didn't complain about a mismatched gcc version. RC2 "seems" more responsive than RC1 did. (I really need to be more objective with this observation by doing some benchmarks.)
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