VL6.0 KDE-Classic-Live feedback.

[nightflier]

We'd appreciate comments on how this release works for you.

[caieng]

Thanks nightflier, for asking our experience.

1.  In contrast to my inability to boot SOHO RC 2.8 on the NVidea computer (64 bit, dual core PIV, 3 GHz), I was able to boot VL 6.0 KDE-Classic-Live, with no difficulty.  Screen resolution was very clear at 1024 x 768, without user adjustment. 
2.  Ditto for my S3 video card computer with PIII (1.1 GHz).  Booted fine, proper resolution, very clear image.
3.  Unfortunately, both computers failed at the same place:  rebooting after the default (not adjustable by the user) setting for Lilo, i.e. /mnt/sda3, instead of /dev/sda3.  Well, perhaps that is not the problem, but, for whatever reason, I am unable to reboot into VL 6.0.  Please give a hoot and a holler, if I can be of any assistance by posting whatever information could be useful.
4.  No problem installing many other linux distros on both computers.....

Regards, CAI ENG

[nightflier]

Boot loader installation can be tricky. Installing to anything but MBR (/dev/sda in your case) usually requires manual intervention afterwards.

What you can do is reboot using the same CD, select the second to last boot option "Boot VL installed...", press the Tab key and change the root path from /dev/hda1 to /dev/sda3 (or where ever you installed VL to). Press Enter to boot.

Once the system is up, log in as root and run "vliloconf".

Do you have other operating systems or boot loaders installed on these systems?

[wheaties.box]

I said this on distrowatch, and I'll say it here.

THANK YOU!

KDE 4 is a piece of crap in my opinion.  I've been a fan of KDE for about a decade now, and I was hoping that KDE 4 would be a nice refresh to the already amazing KDE 3.5.x line when it was finally materializing.  I was disappointed then, and I'm still disappointed.

I really don't like GNOME that much, but I have given up trying to convince myself that KDE 4 is worth my time.  GNOME has won my affection by default.  It's nice to see that a good, established distro is offering an official KDE 3.5 release.  Thanks guys.

I'm downloading it right now, and I'll try to play with it tonight when I get home from work.

[caieng]

Do you have other operating systems or boot loaders installed on these systems?

Hi nightflier,
Thanks for asking.
yes, I have several others.  I employ XOSL as boot manager, so that GRUB or Lilo are used by me only to access the Linux distro, and nothing else.  This method works VERY well with many other distros, though it fails, and fails badly with Mint, Suse, and Feodora, all of which overwrite the mbr.
Slackware is no problem.  Ubuntu and other Debian based distros work fine.  Best is Mandriva and its derivatives, clear sailing, no problems, and, of course, Puppy, the gold standard in my experience, for old computers.

I use the same partition scheme on all of my several computers, and they all boot up and run just fine.  So, this problem I am having with several VL versions, including Light, SOHO, and now 6.0 with KDE 3.5 live, seems to originate, as best as I can determine, with some aspect of the installer software.

I am limiting my assessment of Linux on old computers to those distributions which permit the proper resolution (my Nvidea graphics controller permits full color (32 bit) at 1280 x 1024 @75 Hz), at least under windows xp.   By proper, I mean, AT LEAST 1024 x 768 x 24 bits @70 Hz.

I further require a distribution which does not demand that the user conform to an old fashioned notion about passwords, logins, and users.  I particular, I reject any distro that requires a login greater than 1 character, or that refuses to accept a single character as password.  I further reject as useless any distribution which fails to permit an automatic login, following the initial bootup (some installers, cleverly, have such a feature incorporated directly into the installation procedure, which strikes me as elegant engineering!)  Why should I have to go through a whole rigamarole about users, groups, and all the rest of this malarky, for a personal computer operating system?

Additionally, I prefer, but do not insist upon, distributions which function, right out of the box, with VLC media player.  I have found it infinitely superior to any other media player.  Distros which do not permit the user to play streaming audio in all three formats of interest, i.e. OGG, mp3, and aacPlus, are readily shown the door.

I had hoped to include at least one of the Vector Linux distributions in this comparison, but, unfortunately, I have been unable, these past several months, while measuring times, and testing various other distributions, to succeed in booting into any VL distro on any of my three test computers.

What you can do is reboot using the same CD, select the second to last boot option "Boot VL installed...", press the Tab key and change the root path from /dev/hda1 to /dev/sda3 (or where ever you installed VL to). Press Enter to boot.

Thanks, I will give it a try tomorrow.

I wish I could be of more help, but I know nothing, and depend entirely on you to advise me about what, if any, data to send to you, from any one of my test machines.

regards,
CAI ENG

[bligh]

Thanks, this is my first experience with Vector.  I saw no reason to kill a perfectly good desktop that a lot of users were running.  I was quite contentedly running another distro with kde 3.5.1 desktop, it does everything I need.  I am currently running it live on my hardware.  So far it has run on my minimal spec Gateway 5300 laptop and everything seems to work automagically.  It seems to have an issue with my Compaq cq60-615dx 64 bit notebook.  Now to try it on everything in between (mostly p3's and p4's.
Cheers

[bigpaws]

Why should I have to go through a whole rigamarole about users, groups, and all the rest of this malarky, for a personal computer operating system?

How about anything you do can effect other users.

I do not wish to start a flame here. Your systems that are connected to the internet can
create problems for other users.

Bigpaws

[retired1af]

Correct. If one is dead set on logging in without taking security into consideration, then perhaps Linux isn't the OS to be using.

I see this in the forums for Ubuntu and the derivative distros. Former Windows users used to running their desktop wide open, complain about how their Windows installation got all messed up due to a virus, and want to use Linux because it's more "secure". And then they turn around and ask how to do the same things that got them into trouble to begin with. It boggles the mind.

[GrannyGeek]

I would *never* want to run Linux without a root/user distinction and a proper password. One of the main reasons Linux is stable and secure is that users are limited in what they can do. They can't make changes at the system level, delete files not in their home directory, or touch the system outside their home directory. Even though I'm both root and user, I'm glad to know that when I'm working as user (which is all the time unless I deliberately su to root) I can't spread malware throughout the system should I have the misfortune to be affected by it.

How many of us have computers that are NEVER used by anyone but us? Few, I would guess. If you have an out-of-town visitor who wants to check e-mail with your computer, your perfect scheme of nobody-but-me-uses-the-computer collapses. I always set up a user called visitor on my computers precisely for those occasions when someone else wants to use my machine. That way I don't have to worry that they might click on something that will do damage (not all malware requires Windows to run). This weekend my grandchildren were here and of course, they wanted to use the computers. I just log them into the visitor account and they can play to their heart's content while I don't worry that they're going to mess up the computer.
--GrannyGeek

[caieng]

I would *never* want to run Linux without a root/user distinction and a proper password.

1.  Nothing wrong, in my opinion, for you to express your opinion, in such clear, and inflexible terms.
2.  Nothing wrong, as far as I am concerned with your expressing an opinion contrary to mine.
3.  Problem, as I see it, is that your comment is irrelevant to the issue under discussion.

What was that subject?
The question was whether or not Vector Linux ought to be designed so that a person has CHOICE.

My argument is NOT that GG should not be able to assign users if she wishes.
My argument is that I should not be obliged to accommodate GG's desires.   Her demands are utterly irrelevant to me.  I do not have an environment of sharing.  I am the only user of my computers, no else touches them.  Why must I conform to GG's modus?
 
A good operating system, in my view, is one that accommodates the USERS, not the software engineers.

A good operating system, in my view, is one that incorporates flexibility with sufficient robustness, that it can accommodate both those who want Linux to behave, as Puppy does, with ZERO demands for users and logins,  and those who want their operating system to behave as Suse wishes:  (warnings for anyone with less than 1 gigabyte of memory, and prohibitions against user names of fewer than 2 characters), or as Slackware demands:  (passwords of at least five characters).

My idea of a good P E R S O N A L computer operating system is one that permits the USER to decide how he/she wishes to organize logins, not some engineer sitting in San Jose.

If you disagree, fine.  As others have suggested, VL may not be the correct distro for me, particularly if the intention of any particular release is to compel change in my behaviour, due to inflexibility by the designers of VL.

Boot loader installation can be tricky. Installing to anything but MBR (/dev/sda in your case) usually requires manual intervention afterwards.

Not in my experience with twenty different distros.

Mind you, I am not saying that I never have problems.  I frequently do have problems.  Point is, I usually do NOT have problems, and as a result, I look with jaundiced eyes at those distros that have trouble with this simple step.

I followed your instructions, and indeed, I am now able to boot into VL 6-KDE 3.5 live.  Thank you for your help.

I wish to clarify, for the record, that I have absolutely no problem on any of the three test computers, installing Slackware 13.0.  In other words, in my opinion, there is a serious flaw in the VL installer.  I do not share your opinion, that 

...installing to anything but MBR...usually requires manual intervention afterwards.

Sorry, nightflier, that simply is not in accord with my experience.  This Vector distro is the only distro that has imposed such a requirement upon me.  Now that you have taught me this useful method, I am going to go back to Vector light 6-0 and examine the possibility of being able to use your same method there.  I will also try with Vector SOHO RC2.8, but, I fear that there is a different problem with that one, or perhaps a second problem, I am still unsure what is going on there.  With that one, I must overcome a crash....

Now that I have (finally) gained access to VL 6 with KDE 3.5, may I humbly inquire, why (i.e. what am I doing wrong, hahaha) does Firefox not connect the dots to VLC.  Both are present and accounted for, when I click on the menu items, however, no sound emerges.  When I click on preferences, I do not find VLC listed.  When I click on "others", VLC does not appear.  When I give up with FF, and invoke Sea Monkey, it is an old, obsolete version, WHY?

What must I do, to upgrade SeaMonkey, and how do I get VLC to be recognized as the media player for the new SeaMonkey to use?

I suppose the trick is something akin to the method you used to guide me from the boot up process.  Trouble is, I have no idea how to get this bloody thing to function the way I want.

With Crunchbang or Puppy, one simply clicks on the icon, and music fills the room.  Here I have not a whisper....

Regards, CAI ENG

[nightflier]

@caieng:

CD boot: Being able to boot an installed system from the CD is very handy. Make sure to use the same CD that you used to install with, though. If the kernel versions differ, you may get unpredictable results.

Boot loaders: You know your system better than anyone. Combining XOSL, GRUB and LILO is pretty involved. You could fiddle with GRUB and add VL to its menu. Use whatever procedure works for you.

Seamonkey: It is not included in the ISO. Version 2.0.4 is available from the repository under /patches.

VLC/Mozilla: You would need the "vlc-mozplugin". A usable version is here: http://connie.slackware.com/~alien/slackbuilds/vlc/pkg/12.2/vlc-mozplugin-1.0.1-i486-2alien.tgz
I have had much better luck with the mplayer plugin, that's why it is used instead. As far as manually adding and associating programs in Firefox, I have been at a loss there since they removed that option several versions back.

[caieng]

Combining XOSL, GRUB and LILO is pretty involved.

may I state, in all humility, that I find 99% of what you write on this forum to be of extraordinary value, you have been incredibly patient with me, and very helpful.  THANK you very much.

However, this particular comment of yours, is slightly misleading to other Vectorites. 

Nothing is easier, in my experience, than working with XOSL.  It is by far the best ten year old piece of software out there, in my opinion.

The presupposition is that one is obliged to include M$ windows components running on the computer.  Of course, if one does not have that requirement, then, XOSL is superfluous. 

I do have that requirement, and I suspect that others also find it necessary for certain applications, to include M$ OS's in their computer capabilities. 

Anyone who would like further help with XOSL, or Ranish partitioner (at least 100x easier to use, than good old fdisk), please send me a message, I will be glad to elaborate.

XOSL is most certainly NOT awkward or inconvenient, or in conflict with Linux, UNLESS, one insists on using the MBR, as does Windows XP, and several flavours of Linux.

But, for all others, no problem.  So, one must then either install all those nasty OS first, and THEN at the end, install XOSL, which works fine, or, reinstall XOSL, after the mbr has been crushed by the Linux installer, however, in that situation, the Linux distro will fail.  In other words, the way I work, Linux MUST be installed to the superblock of the EXT 4 partition, NOT the MBR.  In that setting, there is no need to fiddle with cdroms for booting, or logging in as root and typing this and that, UNTIL today, when I found that VL does require such fiddling.....But, even then, the conflict is not with XOSL, but with the installer, for once the user types in the magic words, and is taken to another slackware type installer routine, to reinstall Grub/Lilo, then, everything works as it should.

So, now I can, at last, happily boot up in VL 6 with KDE 3.5.  Wish I could use it, now that I have, at long last, arrived at the destination:

VLC/Mozilla: You would need the "vlc-mozplugin". A usable version is here: http://connie.slackware.com/~alien/slackbuilds/vlc/pkg/12.2/vlc-mozplugin-1.0.1-i486-2alien.tgz

thanks for the advice, I will give it a shot.

regards, CAI ENG

[SmartMart]

Boot loader installation can be tricky. Installing to anything but MBR (/dev/sda in your case) usually requires manual intervention afterwards.

I'm using a commercial boot manager(BootItNG) which has served me well for many many years. It's normally a simple matter of installing each distros boot loader to the root partition of each respective distro and then rebooting the PC and going into BootItNG's maintenance section to add the new distro to BootItNG's boot menu. However, with VL, I couldn't add it to the boot menu because the partition I installed it in was marked as NOT bootable.

What you can do is reboot using the same CD, select the second to last boot option "Boot VL installed...", press the Tab key and change the root path from /dev/hda1 to /dev/sda3 (or where ever you installed VL to). Press Enter to boot.

Yep, did that.

Once the system is up, log in as root and run "vliloconf".

And that.

I then rebooted and went into BootItNG's maintenance section and the VL partition was marked as bootable and I was able to add it to the boot menu. I now have a bootable VL installation - many thanks for posting the solution.

Regards .....

[SmartMart]

We'd appreciate comments on how this release works for you.

Just a quick comment 

It says in the release announcement:
"Before installing vlnvidia or vlati, download and install the kernel sources: http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-6.0/kernels/kernel-src-2.6.27.29-i686-1vl60.tlz"

After doing the above, I found that I had to run nvidia-xconfig to actually enable the nVidia drivers.

Regards .....

[caieng]

Many thanks to nightflier, I have succeeded in getting KDE-Classic-Live to boot automatically into the user.  Hurrah.
Took a while, but it works.
I am now, today, at a loss to explain what happened to the sound. 

I have no sound.

I am not referring here to music.  I have no sound.  Something is interfering with the sound card.  Using the KDE testing software routine, I click on the icon to generate a test sound, but hear nothing.

I have checked the sound card itself, by booting into XP, it works fine.
problem is not related to Linux, because other distros work fine:  Puppy, Crunchbang, PCLinuxOS, for example....

Any ideas on how to fix this problem? Is there some sort of diagnostic log one can refer to for help in elaborating the cause of the failure?

regards,

CAI ENG