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Author Topic: Standard & SOHO -- dual booting  (Read 1918 times)
RonB
Vectorite
***
Posts: 120


« on: October 24, 2010, 03:46:13 pm »

Okay, back to the same topic on a different thread.

So I'm dual-booting Standard Deluxe and SOHO now. I want to play with the KDE desktop for a bit, but I think I'll want to go to Xfce eventually.

But the first question... how do I get the proprietary nVidia driver to install. In Standard it's automatic. I guess I just need to install it -- I think it did install the nVidia source code, so I thought it was going to be automatic.

And the other question, how do I change back and forth between KDE and Xfce. I've got to update the SOHO version yet, so that'll probably take a bit of time, but I'll be working on that side for a bit. KDE 4.4 *is* pretty. But it does seem to be a bit sluggish compared to Xfce (maybe it was the first boot, however).

At any rate, I'm going to do some exploring now.

Thanks.

Okay, updates done -- took about 20 minutes. nVidia proprietary driver now installed (I picked the wrong choice when setting up XWindows). KDE 4.x works better here than I've ever seen it -- except I've had Dolphin lock up on me a couple times and the bouncing icons are driving me crazy. Very pretty desktop, but I want my Xfce back, so that's the next "project." Also, playing AVI files doesn't work "out of box" -- or at least it didn't for me.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 04:52:11 pm by RonB » Logged

RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0 -- Optiplex GX270
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2567


« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2010, 05:09:33 pm »

the bouncing icons are driving me crazy. Very pretty desktop, but I want my Xfce back, so that's the next "project." Also, playing AVI files doesn't work "out of box" -- or at least it didn't for me

You can get rid of bouncing icons and just about anything else that annoys you. Maybe in KDE Control Panel? There are TONS of settings you can turn on and off or customize. I don't have KDE running now, so I can't say for sure.

What are you trying to play AVI files with? I'm writing this in VL6 Light, so I can't check. If I remember tomorrow and have time, I'll see what happens on my computer.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
RonB
Vectorite
***
Posts: 120


« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2010, 06:20:28 pm »

You can get rid of bouncing icons and just about anything else that annoys you. Maybe in KDE Control Panel? There are TONS of settings you can turn on and off or customize. I don't have KDE running now, so I can't say for sure.

What are you trying to play AVI files with? I'm writing this in VL6 Light, so I can't check. If I remember tomorrow and have time, I'll see what happens on my computer.

Haven't found out how to turn off bouncing cursors yet, but I'll keep looking. Maybe under the mouse controls? AVI files worked with MPlayer, but not with Xine or Dragon... something. Not a huge deal, but they *do* work with MPlayer.

I'm amazed at how smooth VectorLinux is with KDE 4.4.x -- I've never had KDE 4.x work worth a darn on this computer. I'm also amazed at how smooth Flash videos run on this system. Hulu is good in Standard, but when I go to full screen there are sometimes small "skips." Nothing like that on this same computer with KDE 4.x

Now I want to see how Xfce works here.
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RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0 -- Optiplex GX270
bigpaws
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1856


« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2010, 07:42:50 pm »

KDE > System Settings > Desktop >  Launch Feed back under Busy Cursor

HTH

Bigpaws
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byron
Member
*
Posts: 3


« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2010, 07:54:50 pm »

I moved to this thread also.
I decided to give to give xfce a try again. I tried it a while back but liked kde better. I might switch over to xfce. I installed standard deluxe6 and will try it for a while, it seems faster on standard than on soho 6. I think I might miss some of the stuff kde has. The main problem I have with soho6 is I can not access my external esata drive and hot swap hard drives or unmounted partitions. I can do this in kde 3.5 with konqueror but not in soho6. In standard6 I can do this with pcman just like konqueror in 3.5 but in soho 6 i can not do this with pcman. In standard 6 the drive manager in the tray shows the drives and partitions but not in soho 6. I want all the benefits of soho 6 deluxe but I must be able to access these drives and partitions or I cannot use it at all. Am I missing something obvious?

byron
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RonB
Vectorite
***
Posts: 120


« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2010, 07:59:43 pm »

KDE > System Settings > Desktop >  Launch Feed back under Busy Cursor

Thank you very much. That bouncing cursor was driving me crazy.
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RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0 -- Optiplex GX270
RonB
Vectorite
***
Posts: 120


« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 12:44:27 am »

Okay, been playing off and on with SOHO. I still don't like KDE 4.x -- even though those in VectorLinux land did a great job of implementing it. BTW, should I be writing "Vector Linux" (with the space) or VectorLinux (without the space)?

I installed Xfce, but I just got the bare bones version of it without any of the Vector Linux customizations. So I think I *am* going to go back and reinstall SOHO and this time exclude KDE and install Xfce. I'm curious to see what that will give me, because right now I still like my Standard Deluxe... (Deluxe Standard?) quite a bit more, but I do see that SOHO has a much newer kernel.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to change the Boot Order in Grub 2. Good grief, talk about an act of Congress. Used to be able to just go into menu.lst, change one number and voila'! Hopefully I'll remember what I did the next time I need to do it. For the record...

You can't edit "grub.cfg" by hand. You've got to change (or actually add) this line to the "grub" file in /etc/default -- "export GRUB_DEFAULT=2" (The number two is the third entry in my grub.cfg menu, it could be any number.) But you're still not done. You've got to run 'grub-mkconfig' but that's not good enough either (as I found out when I tried rebooting). You actually have to run 'grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg' Once I did that it "stuck" -- even though I could almost swear that 'grub.cfg' had changed, then changed back when I just ran 'grub-mkcofig.'  Ubuntu has an 'update-grub' command that just "calls" the above 'grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg'

Sorry to ramble. You guys have done an incredible amount of work, and I thank you for it.
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RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0 -- Optiplex GX270
RonB
Vectorite
***
Posts: 120


« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 05:08:37 pm »

Just to follow up... my SOHO trial has ended -- I kind of needed CentOS for training anyhow. I tried not installing KDE during the second install, but didn't know how to replicate VectorLinux Standard's Xfce's "look and feel." I figure the next version of Standard Deluxe will probably have the newer kernel and libraries anyhow and, at this time, I don't know of anything I'm missing or need that the Standard Deluxe doesn't have. I just really like "regular" VectorLinux -- so I knew that SOHO was going to be a hard sell.
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RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0 -- Optiplex GX270
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2567


« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 05:26:35 pm »

I tried not installing KDE during the second install, but didn't know how to replicate VectorLinux Standard's Xfce's "look and feel." I figure the next version of Standard Deluxe will probably have the newer kernel and libraries anyhow and, at this time, I don't know of anything I'm missing or need that the Standard Deluxe doesn't have. I just really like "regular" VectorLinux -- so I knew that SOHO was going to be a hard sell.

I've been trying to figure out what you mean by Standard XFce's "look and feel." What do you think is missing? Standard uses XFce 4.4something; SOHO uses XFce 4.6.2. You can update Standard's XFce to 4.6.1, which I did when I was using Standard. It adds features of 4.6.2 but loses some of those addins to the Panel. I didn't use those anyway, so I didn't miss them.

If you mean you don't like the wallpaper or icons or theme, change them. XFce in SOHO Deluxe offers plenty of options and it's easy to do right in the GUI.

But the bad news for you is that XFce in next Standard Deluxe will not be the same as the XFce you're using in VL6 Standard Deluxe. So if you're  holding off in that expectation, you may as well go ahead with SOHO Deluxe and have all those nifty new libraries and kernel things now, not months from now.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
RonB
Vectorite
***
Posts: 120


« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 02:26:16 am »

Hi Granny,

What I meant is that, unlike Xfce on Standard (I'll just drop Deluxe for the sake of simplicity), installing Xfce on SOHO just gave me a generic Xfce install. Not the same utilities, icons, panel(s), theme, nothing like VL Standard. One of the reasons I use VL is because I like what they've done with Xfce -- I don't particularly like generic Xfce.

I hope the new VL's Standard Xfce 4.6.x will be too much different from Xfce 4.4.x -- I really like it the way it is (and has been on VL for some time). As for the newer libraries and kernels -- not sure what it is I'm missing at this point. I've been able to install whatever I need and the kernel is quite a bit newer than my CentOS installs -- even though it's well behind the SOHO kernels.

You've got to understand, I'm the kind of person who doesn't like change. I used OS/2 (Blue Pack with Windows 3.11) for a couple years after Windows 98 came out -- then I used Windows 98 for three or four years after XP came out. What I like about VL Standard is the simplicity, speed and the small footprint -- and also the theme and utilities.   

I'm sure if I took the time I could customize VL SOHO the way I like, but I'm happy with VL Standard and I just don't see the point right now. No knock on SOHO at all.
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RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0 -- Optiplex GX270
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2567


« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2010, 11:25:48 am »

First, I want to make it clear that I fully appreciate that it's your computer and you are entitled to do anything you want with it. So it's fine with me if you want to stick with VL6 Standard.

I must say I still don't understand. "Not the same utilities, icons, panel(s), theme, nothing like VL Standard." I don't remember exactly what XFce was like in what came with Standard. I think it was version 4.4-something and after some months with that, I upgraded to version 4.6.1 from the VL testing repo. It also installs the Tango icons. I never noticed a lot of difference and certainly couldn't say "nothing like VL Standard." The differences were almost unnoticeable. You can choose what set of icons you want, and of course, you can change individual icons for programs and launchers to anything you want. Same for themes. The Panel utilities are different because the utilities for 4.4 cause problems or don't work right in 4.6. I never was a big user of Panel utilities, but I think most of them are not that important or can be replaced by something else that isn't a Panel utility. One thing that is noticeably different is the Desktop menu ("Start" menu). You have an extra click in that you need to select Applications in order to get to settings that were included on the starting Desktop menu in XFce4. I found that a bit annoying, but I felt I gained more with 4.6.1 than I lost. I no longer remember what I got with 4.6.1 that I didn't get with 4.4.

I never had the impression that "they" (VL devs) did that much with XFce 4.4. When I look at XFce's Web site, the "generic" XFce seems about the same as what comes with VL--and that was true back with 4.4, too. Given how much you can bend XFce to your liking, I've always figured I could make my Panel be whatever I preferred, put it where I wanted it, populate it with launchers and other Panel items as it suited me, and add and remove whatever New Items were provided (and most of them weren't things I cared about but they were available). I always remove the Pager, as I don't find it necessary and it takes up lots of space on the Panel. I always leave a sliver of space on the right edge of the screen so I can center-click and get the list of workspaces and what's running on them. I remove the Exit icon from the panel. I can easily get to that with a right-click on my desktop sliver that is always available. I use panel Launchers as "drawers" with each one offering several programs in that category when I click on the arrow to the right of the Launcher. In XFce 4.4, you had more choices about where the arrow could go. In XFce 4.6, it goes to the right. I've never seen the point of Wbar, unless one wants a Mac-ish look.

Again, I state with certainty that XFce 7 Standard will give you what you get now with XFce 4.6.1 or 2, so unless you want to stick with the past way longer than you should, you'd better get your mind ready for a big change. Why not create a partition for VL 7 a3 and help us out with testing? Your feedback is most valuable. It's amazing what bugs turn up depending on individual hardware and software. The more people who test, the more bugs will be discovered and swatted before the final version comes out. There are A LOT of changes in VL 7. The updated libraries do break some things and we need to know what happens.

That's also why you can't update VL6 Standard with the latest libraries. VL 6 SOHO includes these newer libraries. Some programs won't work with the old libraries, for example, the latest Scribus. SeaMonkey is also a problem and apparently can't be compiled on VL6 Standard and Light.

>> You've got to understand, I'm the kind of person who doesn't like change. >>

Change is an inevitable part of life.<g>

Anyway, I'm glad you're happy with Standard. I loved it for many months and couldn't imagine anything better, but once I discovered I could install XFce on the beta SOHO I was testing, I had to admit SOHO offered advantages. I continued with SOHO and XFce through all the Release Candidates and am thrilled to have XFce included with SOHO Deluxe. So right now I can't imagine anything better than SOHO Deluxe with XFce--but I doubtless will change my mind as VL7 firms up.

Everyone reading this--
If you haven't beta tested upcoming versions of VectorLinux, I think you'll be amazed at how stable they are even early in the testing cycle. All it takes is a partition (15 gigs or so is roomy enough for use, or 10 gigs just for testing) dedicated to the version you're testing. After it's installed, you can boot it with the installation CD if you're concerned about modifying your boot loader. More testers mean more bugs discovered and more ideas about how to improve the release while there's still time to evaluate them and possibly implement them.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
RonB
Vectorite
***
Posts: 120


« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 03:19:11 pm »

Hi Granny,

Obviously I didn't get all of VL's Xfce installation, because the Xfce that I got on SOHO was the standard "generic" or "vanilla" Xfce install with the mouse in the X icon, the top and bottom panels, the very primitive icons, etc. I know I can change themes, etc., in VL Standard, but as far as I can tell, when I had the Xfce SOHO installed on my computer, there was nothing similar to VL available. Is there a group Xfce install for VL?

I do customize my panel -- also always get rid of the "exit" icon (never saw the point of that even in Gnome). I'll see if I can resize my partition and try out VL 7.

Thanks.

Just a quick report -- finally back in VectorLinux Standard Deluxe 6!

For some reason VL 7 Test comes to the login screen just fine (impressive login graphics) but when I log in I get a file missing error -- it let's me type in a little gray box as long as the mouse is over it, but that's about it. I tried running VASM in root, but so far haven't been able to get Xorg to set up and run.

What's worse is, like an idiot, I let VL 7 set up grub 2 (I'm getting to hate grub 2) for my three Linux partitions. It wouldn't let me log into VL 6 or CentOS 5.5. In VL 6 it just sat there, two keyboard lights blinking after a while. I found out later, when I changed to Lilo via VASM, that it stopped because of a kernel panic. The CentOS selection didn't do anything at all, like it wasn't hooked up to anything.

Fortunately I was able to use CentOS 5.5's rescue mode and reinstall grub and voila' -- I'm back.

And, as long as I'm whining, GParted kind of irritated me also. When I cut 15 gigs of space out of my largest partition, it decided for some reason to take 2.8 Gigs from the front of hard drive as well as the fifteen gigs from the end of the partition? -- that meant it had to move every file to a new location, which took about 2.5 hours. (I sure wasn't going to stop it while in progress.) Now I've got 2.8 Gigs of space marked "unusable" at the front of my drive? That's going to irritate me until it's right, so it looks like a reinstall is in the cards.  [Figured this one out, I think. GParted has "round to cylinders" checked as default. If you leave it checked it will always move your partition to align with a cylinder when you resize -- which means it will move everything. So uncheck that and the process will take a few minutes instead of a few hours. I should also mention that this can cause problems booting if you're resizing Windows partitions -- so definitely check into this "round to cylinders." In my opinion it should *not* be the default.]

At any rate, I'm guessing that's a GParted issue. Meanwhile, once I get VL 7 to boot from CentOS's grub, I'll give more information about the issue I'm having with VL 7 -- the exact error.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 09:53:37 pm by RonB » Logged

RonB
Registered Linux User #498581
Vector Linux Deluxe 6.0 -- Optiplex GX270
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