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Author Topic: Any folks interested in UX around?  (Read 3678 times)
rbistolfi
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« on: September 14, 2012, 10:46:13 am »

Hi guys,

I was wondering if there are any vectorites interested in accessibility/UI/UX topics that would like to join discussions about the VL apps ?
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rokytnji
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2012, 11:46:00 am »

Hi guys,

I was wondering if there are any vectorites interested in accessibility/UI/UX topics that would like to join discussions about the VL apps ?

Being what I am. I had to look that up to figure out the abbreviations/acronym . So guessing here on what you mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience_design

Me, being more of a bull in a china cabinet type of Vector Linux user. I was just curious (curiosity killed the cat)  Smiley

I am gonna be out  of town till next week. So I won't be checking back till I get back from my trip.
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overthere
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 10:20:45 am »

as usual I am late in finding this thread but it is so interesting I am curious how or where the discussion evolved. would be interested in the details.
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retired1af
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 11:06:26 am »

Hi guys,

I was wondering if there are any vectorites interested in accessibility/UI/UX topics that would like to join discussions about the VL apps ?

I had forgotten all about this.

While many of the new designs are great for "younger" eyes, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to see various things within the scroll bars, tiny x's in the upper right corner are hard to see, and various other "minor" things that tend to be more difficult as you age.

Different shades of the same color may work for some, but for older eyes, we need that contrast in order to really see what's going on.

Oh, and one last thing. We ain't tryin' to mimic OS X on some things are we?
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2013, 06:33:25 am »

Hi guys,

While many of the new designs are great for "younger" eyes, I'm finding it increasingly difficult to see various things within the scroll bars, tiny x's in the upper right corner are hard to see, and various other "minor" things that tend to be more difficult as you age.

I agree, contrast and information hierarchy are very important! If we have such problems in Vector we should try to fix them. I suspect we will all agree in the general principles, what would be really cool is to find and fix concrete UX problems in Vector, and help users to reach their goals.

Quote
Oh, and one last thing. We ain't tryin' to mimic OS X on some things are we?
Only when they do something good :-)

as usual I am late in finding this thread but it is so interesting I am curious how or where the discussion evolved. would be interested in the details.

Well, you guys are the first ones showing interest, we talk about this in IRC many times though. Discusion can go on here or in the mailing list, or privately even (but conclusions should be published somewhere for the community.)
I have been trying to learn on the topic when I get the time. What I have found is that often our assumptions about user goals and problems are wrong. You have to always corroborate your ideas with data. In practice that means we should drive usability tests. Thats pretty hard to do and sometimes costly. I think we could replace that with a users survey.
The second lesson I learned is "design with user in mind". We often try to make our applications to look good, or to act in this way or in another. Thats fine but we often forget about the user and the specific problem he or she is trying to solve. Always keep in mind that your goal is to help concrete users to solve specific problems! Often extra text, clicks, and controls are just obstacles. Do not add just for the sake of it, or because everybody else is doing it, or because its easy to do.
A third lesson I learned is that applications have to be predictable. Users will more likely reach their goals if they know whats going on, if the applications and the components work as expected, and if features and behaivor are easy to discover. Again, always backup your assumptions with data, ask your users or read studies driven by others about similar issues. So, shorty: talk to your users, help them to reach their goals, measure the results so you can optimize and focus where is required.

Would be awesome if we can turn all this crap into concrete TODO items Cheesy

Some very interesting resources:

* http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/fog0000000249.html - This guy is awesome
* http://elementaryos.org/journal/design-process - Elementary is an ubuntu with focus in design and UX
* http://elementaryos.org/docs/human-interface-guidelines - Their HIG are very good and well documented
* http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511258.aspx - The Redmond guys have one too
* http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511260.aspx - I am interested in the "Wizard" topic now because the installer is one of those
* http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/MobileHIG/Introduction/Introduction.html - iOS guidelines. Often mobile is another beast, but the general principles are relevant. I like that mobile favours some kind of minimalism
* http://ux.stackexchange.com/ - UX forum at Stack Exchange (Joel, author of the first link, is the founder)
* http://uxpin.com/ux-design-for-startups.html - The guys from UXSpin have a book about UX design

Some work we have been doing for the installer: http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8112/partitionsc.png
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 06:44:29 am by rbistolfi » Logged

"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

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rokytnji
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 08:34:12 am »

I have one very small suggestion from the pictures I saw with the gui installer. A check box with a preserve /home partition and  another for preserve / partition would be nice for those that have pre-formatted partitions for starters to save time. That way the installer goes straight to copying in files to root and /home.  One can also have
a popup window confirming if that is how you wish to proceed.

example: ok to not format /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 and install zenwalk?

Another neat feature about this is one can just do the / install and leave /home alone when redoing a botched install or botched changes.

Anyhows, It is  Just a suggestion.
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retired1af
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2013, 08:49:10 am »

You can do this by specifying that the partition isn't to be formatted. It's been my experience, though, that while leaving /home alone is OK for a reinstall, doing the same for / doesn't work so hot. Especially if you've heavily modified the original installation.
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retired1af
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2013, 10:03:03 am »

I agree, contrast and information hierarchy are very important! If we have such problems in Vector we should try to fix them. I suspect we will all agree in the general principles, what would be really cool is to find and fix concrete UX problems in Vector, and help users to reach their goals.

I don't know if this is because we're still working on the development or what, but this is partly what I'm talking about.

In VL64-7.1 B0.12, the scroll bars look fine. However, with B0.13, we now see this (see 1st attachment). You expect me to grab a hold of something that small first thing in the morning? Before coffee?!!!! GET REAL!  Cheesy

And there's a huge difference in fonts, too. Attachment 2 shows the forums here, which is easily readable. However, Attachment 3 shows a site using XenForo software and the fonts are barely readable.



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nightflier
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2013, 03:52:33 pm »

You expect me to grab a hold of something that small first thing in the morning? Before coffee?!!!! GET REAL!  Cheesy

I know what you mean. I spent months deciding on what DE to switch to after deciding to let go of KDE3. I tried many. In the end I settled on KDE4. There were many reasons, but the deciding factor was that it has traditional scroll bars, with up/down buttons.
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2013, 06:14:17 pm »

I think thats the elementary-gtk theme. I like it because it doesnt take too much space in my 1024x600 screen. However the downside is obvious. I think the best combination is elementary-gtk for windows decorations and clearlooks as gtk theme.
About the websites, thats in general controlled by the site CSS. Almost all the browsers let you use an alternative CSS or have a plugin providing that functionality, that could be an option for you.
Try egtk+clearlooks and let us know what do you think.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
overthere
Vectorian
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Posts: 1263



« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2013, 09:07:13 pm »

Thanks for the links rbistolfi that should keep me busy for a while.

was just looking at the installer link, looks like you are designing a partitioner to replace gparted? I like gparted as it is so simple to use and sometimes use puppy live or parted magick just to partition.hope you keep it simple.

I just installed vl7 to /dev/sda2 on my desktop, sda1 is vl7light and sda3 is a swap..the installer was easy to use and installed with a boot option to boot sda1 which was also nice. I did notice some things.

 when I clicked quit on the installer rather than next, I got a gray screen. it should say click me..when I clicked, to my joy it had a short menu where I could play a few games, use a utility..cfdisk gave an error that my partition2 was something end cylinder so I closed it and clicked gparted, it opened and appeared usable. there was also a bash terminal and quit with option to restart jwm,logout, reboot or shutdown. the utilities should offer clear MBR to remove grub and reinstall grub. then if I wanted I could clear the mbr format the partition and be clean to start fresh..well just my thought. the menu could also include install and when clicked load the installer.if I partitioned the drive the installer could skip the option.I rebooted and installed.

select partition showed sda1 as not used or formatted but has vl7l installed, sda2 showed the same, I clicked /and format even though I had just formatted it in gparted.

 during install progress--logo in vector linux community is squished...perhaps do to the resolution choice.may be cool to have the avatar by each name in the list, lots of room. the top logo could be slightly smaller, it touches the boarder top and bottom.
 
after install was nice to see the tips window, when I was looking at the live cd I had thought it may be a good icon idea. when I clicked the pop-up for the dock the dock auto hide but when I popped it back it stayed. like the idea but it should do one or the other. perhaps my error will reinstall and have another look at the installer and look around the desktop..have been spending some of my free time on light, reading and posting to much here

just observations as the installer was mentioned, many nice improvements and thanks
cheers
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stretchedthin
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2013, 09:50:23 pm »

Think with new users, vdateset comes up just about everytime.  Think either clicking on the clock or at least an icon beside the clock should lunch vsuper vdateset.  Then a new user will not have to find it in vasm.

I tried a live fubuntu distro and was pleasantly surprised when it auto detected my dual monitors and set-up the xranr for me. Pretty easy to do I'd think as xranr can detect the displays and a simple script could grep out the names and put one left or right of the other.  It might be productive for this thread if people might mention something about other distro's they really liked in the UX space.

We could really seek the potietial that lies in the Thunar Custom actions with an expanded feature set for the uca.xml.  (You can find it in ~/.config/Thunar) that's what gives you all those special actions when you right click in Thunar.)

Really, XFCE is an untapped gold mind of configurability.  I've mentioned the Thunar Custom actions, but there is a lot that can be done with the panel launchers that can really benefit the user experience.

My personal opinion is that Suse, Chakra and others already do KDE very well, Gnome is also done well in by Mint, and Fedora, but nobody is really taking XFCE to it's potential yet.  

I've got a couple new things running on my vl7.1 machine.  I'll see if I can make a video and share them in a new post.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 06:50:14 am by stretchedthin » Logged

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http://www.opensourcebistro.com/blog1
http://www.youtube.com/user/vid4ken?feature=mhee
overthere
Vectorian
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Posts: 1263



« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2013, 11:53:20 pm »

 personally I am not fond of the VL7 std desktop, but it is easy enough to get it to something I may like. It is good to have icons if you like them, the dock is cool, the top taskbar is nice shortened although the color does not match the overall appearance), but all at once bugs me for some reason. I like the slightly wider transparent taskbar in retired1af's soho screen shot,the one with the healthy dog wallpaper in the screen shot thread. Having looked at a lot of linux desktops, I find the wallpaper and novelty of the taskbars or program launchers can make or break my decision to go further than connecting to the Internet. if it does not connect and I am not fond of the look I leave it for later and move on. I liked VL5.9 and discovered the potential of fluxbox ( some indication of what I like I suppose).Xfce with the leaf wallpaper was awesome, the black shiny bar and warped space VL6 very nice...not to be offensive but my thought when I seen the VL7 desktop was every one was so busy working on the installer that they just gave a bunch of options to choose from. I accepted the thought but may not have had it, had I not been hanging around bugging every one. anyway not complaining, just constructive criticism. curious if any one else has similar feeling or defensive remarks to share. I never liked puppy because I thought it was ugly but when they came out with dingo, the sunny frozen lake and puppy in the clouds was a very pleasant surprise. I looked closer and was amazed I had not noticed its polish before. sometimes beauty is skin deep, sometimes a little make-up goes a long way.a last thought. I would rather see a weak repository of rock solid apps and a rich testing ground than a weak appearing package manager due to weak tested extras, not that that is a serious reality, just saying it would be true.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 11:57:54 pm by overthere » Logged

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overthere
Vectorian
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 09:11:40 am »

I think I have to take that back, Vector can easily look like windows, mac or custom linux in just a few minutes. the first impression is less than stellar but after a few minutes I am actually very impressed. now that I have both feet out of my mouth.

I think volti would be a nice addition to the taskbar as most users will find volume slider familiar rather than an app they have to open and close, or am I missing something there as well.

Is it possible to have the applications folder in thunar? I really like it in light and in this case it would offer a more mac like experience when leaving the drive icon and finding the applications a click away when the drive is opened.

So the second impression is understanding it is easier to offer the alternatives than explain how to do it or have a new user potentially miss the opportunity. most people are familiar with auto hide most likely and toggling the icons was easily found with a equally familiar right click.

My solution for my first impression feelings would be to create a cleaner live desktop as changes can not be saved...I like VL7 installed as  is with the volume and apps folder in question.

this is likely irrelevent it is already done and the next generation will be different again, perhaps I should learn to shut my piehole...lol
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retired1af
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 12:09:12 pm »

Ever try to scroll your mouse wheel while the pointer is hovering over the speaker icon in VL7? Why click and select a slider when you can just mouse over and scroll? I HATE not being able to do that in Winderz!
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