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Author Topic: Any folks interested in UX around?  (Read 4245 times)
overthere
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 04:09:40 pm »

 
Quote
Ever try to scroll your mouse wheel while the pointer is hovering over the speaker icon

Yes, that is one of the things I like about wmix in fluxbox as well.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 04:37:26 pm by overthere » Logged

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overthere
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« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 04:45:52 pm »

@Rbistolfi...is it a choice of one of the three lower images for the partitioner? I like the left one assuming you click the partion and slide the bar to change size(+-) and it is indicated in the text above. it is cleaner in the right image but I wonder if one would see the full type and size in small partitions. perhaps I have it all wrong.
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2013, 06:21:11 pm »

@Rbistolfi...is it a choice of one of the three lower images for the partitioner? I like the left one assuming you click the partion and slide the bar to change size(+-) and it is indicated in the text above. it is cleaner in the right image but I wonder if one would see the full type and size in small partitions. perhaps I have it all wrong.
Well you got it right, which is good because it should be obvious how to use anything Smiley
It is a choice of one. In my current implementation I removed the type selection and filesystem also, since you can pick it from another screen. We added the label with device data for handling the small partition case, but I wonder if thats useful for a significative ammount of users.
This should replace GParted. The idea is to offer a simplified version of the partitioning widget supporting the most common use case (resizing a single windows partition.) I think we should still keep gparted in the iso for advanced users.
I think that the desktop lacks some clear direction but for improving we should really get some significative ammount of data. What are the most common use cases ? how people uses vector?

Think with new users, vdateset comes up just about everytime.  Think either clicking on the clock or at least an icon beside the clock should lunch vsuper vdateset.
Thats a good idea.

Quote
I tried a live fubuntu distro and was pleasantly surprised when it auto detected my dual monitors and set-up the xranr for me. Pretty easy to do I'd think as xranr can detect the displays and a simple script could grep out the names and put one left or right of the other.

How would you execute that script? Ideally when an extra monitor is plugged, how do you detect that?

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We could really seek the potietial that lies in the Thunar Custom actions with an expanded feature set for the uca.xml.  (You can find it in ~/.config/Thunar) that's what gives you all those special actions when you right click in Thunar.)
I like the custom actions. I would like to see one for sharing a folder over the network with http or ftp.  File broadcasting is a possibility also.

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Really, XFCE is an untapped gold mind of configurability.  I've mentioned the Thunar Custom actions, but there is a lot that can be done with the panel launchers that can really benefit the user experience.
Well we should keep in mind the "solve specific problems users are facing" thing. We shouldnt add custom actions or launchers just because we can. What are good examples of use cases for those?

Really good feedback guys, I am still worried about how to get to know our users better. Any ideas in that front? Is a survey a bad idea?
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2013, 06:29:15 pm »

Here is a screenshot of the partitioning widget in its current implementation:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3542/partitioning.png

Still a lot to fix but I think it is in the right path. Still looking for the best way to provide "Add a new partition" functionality.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 06:31:24 pm by rbistolfi » Logged

"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
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overthere
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Posts: 1281



« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 03:02:23 am »

Not sure it is possible or desirable but I would anticipate a button above the current free space labeled execute, a left click select and right click menu

 If I left click a partition the surrounding frame would change to a bright color to indicate I have made a selection.

 Then I slide the bar right or left, the new size of the partition indicated at the bar.

pressing "execute" executes the change, indicated by the default  frame color and a change of apparent size along with a change in the free space to coincide

if a partition is selected and right clicked a menu will appear offering delete, create new, format to and flag options, if delete is selected the menu would close and a pop up warn of data loss if executed with an option to cancel. if the execute button is clicked the warning is closed and free space is increased in size and indicated as such.

if free space is selected and right clicked the delete is grayed  but create new options such as new type/file system, are available. once selections are made the menu closes a pop up ask you to select size (or execute) with an option to cancel. free space is now a color and a size can be dragged and the new partition created by clicking execute or just click execute to use entire remaining free space.

if visual helps I am not so skilled but
http://my.opera.com/dsl-o/albums/showpic.dml?album=13526342&picture=178133072
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 03:43:07 am by overthere » Logged

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retired1af
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 04:21:27 am »

Here is a screenshot of the partitioning widget in its current implementation:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3542/partitioning.png

Still a lot to fix but I think it is in the right path. Still looking for the best way to provide "Add a new partition" functionality.

Why reinvent the wheel? gparted works fine for that. Not only does it give me an immediate visual snapshot of the disc, but I KNOW gparted and what to expect with it. Virtually all installers kick you into it when you need to monkey with partitions.

I think we're asking for trouble by trying to automate some processes when it comes to the hard drive. Back Track has done this and as a result, I inadvertently bombed the MBR of my Windows drive. There are far too many different system configurations to account for. For example, my notebook has 2 physical hard drives. One's for Windows only. The other is for Linux. I hate it when installers try to default to /dev/sda when I don't even want it looked at during the installation process.

Thinking for the noob is fine, but I think there are better ways of educating them. It's definitely preferable to redoing the installer that could create even more issues in the long run.
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overthere
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Posts: 1281



« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 04:44:43 am »

Quote
Thinking for the noob is fine, but I think there are better ways of educating them.

Good point.  I could not care less about being educated by you and have better things to think about. there are lots of places on the Internet to entertain my free time, cheers.

EDIT: Sorry, personally I find the expression "Noob" offensive. But a little sleep goes a long way.

 I think it is a bold initiative to design a partitioner into the installer that although similar to gparted is a Vector design.

It offers a bit more independence as a distribution and more importantly a continuity in the installer ui. If one could access the partitioner after install and then exit the installer the disk would have more value as a tool in addition to back-up install disk.

One is free to use what they wish to partition their drives. it is an option during install.

There is ample information on disk partitioning available for new users. I feel ease of use and ui continuity is for everyone, and not necessarily pandering to novice enthusiasts.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 10:26:03 am by overthere » Logged

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rbistolfi
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 11:15:41 am »

Why reinvent the wheel?
Its not exactly the same, its a simpler version optimized for our primary use case. We reinvent it but just a little Grin

Quote
gparted works fine for that. Not only does it give me an immediate visual snapshot of the disc, but I KNOW gparted and what to expect with it.

Yeah I know too. Gparted will still be there for those who want to use it. I admit we never did a formal research on this one but our experience with the previous implementations of the installer indicates that gparted by itself doesnt solve the problem for a lot of users. People had problems even just getting to the next stage.

Quote
Virtually all installers kick you into it when you need to monkey with partitions.
Not really, many relevant distros have their own tool.

Quote
I think we're asking for trouble by trying to automate some processes when it comes to the hard drive. Back Track has done this and as a result, I inadvertently bombed the MBR of my Windows drive. There are far too many different system configurations to account for. For example, my notebook has 2 physical hard drives. One's for Windows only. The other is for Linux. I hate it when installers try to default to /dev/sda when I don't even want it looked at during the installation process.
We dont default to anything, you have to select your disk even in the automatic options.

Quote
Thinking for the noob is fine, but I think there are better ways of educating them. It's definitely preferable to redoing the installer that could create even more issues in the long run.
Well almost all the literature on UX goes against this, the first link I pasted earlier has a lot to say about it. The idea is that even novice users should be able to run this and partitioning is by far the more complex step. Advanced users can still reach their goals easily by using gparted and then select the "use existing partitions" option in the installer.



Not sure it is possible or desirable but I would anticipate a button above the current free space labeled execute, a left click select and right click menu
I am afraid that many would hit "next" without clicking "execute". Many users exited gparted without commiting changes in the previous installer implementation. I agree that we should make clear when the actions will be executed for the user.

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If I left click a partition the surrounding frame would change to a bright color to indicate I have made a selection.
We are using yellow for indicating active partition.

Quote
Then I slide the bar right or left, the new size of the partition indicated at the bar.
Exactly, thats how it works. We show the size in percentage but we should probably express that in GB.

Quote
pressing "execute" executes the change, indicated by the default  frame color and a change of apparent size along with a change in the free space to coincide
In the current implementation, the graph changes while moving the slider.

Quote
if a partition is selected and right clicked a menu will appear offering delete, create new, format to and flag options, if delete is selected the menu would close and a pop up warn of data loss if executed with an option to cancel. if the execute button is clicked the warning is closed and free space is increased in size and indicated as such.
Right click menu wasnt in the plan, sounds like a good idea.

Quote
if free space is selected and right clicked the delete is grayed  but create new options such as new type/file system, are available. once selections are made the menu closes a pop up ask you to select size (or execute) with an option to cancel. free space is now a color and a size can be dragged and the new partition created by clicking execute or just click execute to use entire remaining free space.
Because creating a new partition is an important action (resizing and creating are the primary use cases) I would add an independent button instead hidding it in a right click menu. I like the right click in free space idea though! Sounds like a good representation of the action, you replace free space with a partition.
Type selection is needed because of swap. The most common scenario would be reduce a windows partition and add a linux and a swap partitions.

Quote

Nice, I used balsamiq mockups to create mine.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
overthere
Vectorian
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Posts: 1281



« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2013, 05:23:17 pm »

Quote
In the current implementation, the graph changes while moving the slider.

Quote
I am afraid that many would hit "next" without clicking "execute". Many users exited gparted without commiting changes in the previous installer implementation.

one of the reasons gparted can be confusing to new users is that it indicates a change where non has actually occurred then expects the user to click a gray execute icon without indicating it is required. they see a desired change and click next

 if the slider indicated a wanted change by way of a size but the graphic does not change until the execute button is clicked then the user sees they have reached a desired goal (selected a partition on the drive with indication, dragged to a new size with indication) but that it is not implemented (graphically as expected ) and perhaps compelled to click "execute" to see the graphic change thus evident execution and the desired result the selection indicator goes out and the change is indicated graphically. if necessary the highlighted frame could be flashing to indicate the process is not complete but that seems extreme.

 in the more complicated area of creating a new partition via the right click menu it is already perhaps understood that the process requires selection and execution. if creating a new partition via the right click menu it  would likely require selecting a type and file system but size could just be remaining freespace and auto executed thus returning to the main window and displaying the new partition. this would then be clickable and resizable like the others that may exist. if execute is pressed there is nothing to execute and nothing happens

 so the process is consistent, select a partition drag the slider to the desired amount, click execute and you see the desired change in a graphical form. the automation is only creating a new partition in remaining free space when a file type and files system are selected under create new in the menu. the user expects to see a new partition that can be resized like the others. if it is resized it will be the same process as with existing partitions.

thus should there be no partitions a create new would automatically create one after a type and file system is selected and return them to reduce its size to create a home and or swap. if they hit next at least there is a partition.

I am uncertain if this is an acceptable process but the redesign would give the feeling of control to the user in my opinion

One could use a button rather than menu but it adds buttons to the main window and thus potential confusion. if all is on the right click menu then all option other than resize are in one place and execute is obvious. if no graphical change is seen one may be hesitant to click next.

the delete option allows old windows partitions to be discarded and can not be completed without execution. another indication of required execution depending on the users goals.

well thats all I have on easy consistent partition management, I hope it was not a complete waste of your time.

cheers

edit : I am assuming in this scenario that should the wrong drive be chosen and a new partition created that it is only created in available free space and could more easily be deleted and existing partition resized to reduce any accidental damage. perhaps I am fool hardy.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 05:49:19 pm by overthere » Logged

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rbistolfi
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2013, 09:15:42 am »

Quote
In the current implementation, the graph changes while moving the slider.

Quote
I am afraid that many would hit "next" without clicking "execute". Many users exited gparted without commiting changes in the previous installer implementation.

one of the reasons gparted can be confusing to new users is that it indicates a change where non has actually occurred then expects the user to click a gray execute icon without indicating it is required. they see a desired change and click next

 if the slider indicated a wanted change by way of a size but the graphic does not change until the execute button is clicked then the user sees they have reached a desired goal (selected a partition on the drive with indication, dragged to a new size with indication) but that it is not implemented (graphically as expected ) and perhaps compelled to click "execute" to see the graphic change thus evident execution and the desired result the selection indicator goes out and the change is indicated graphically. if necessary the highlighted frame could be flashing to indicate the process is not complete but that seems extreme.

 in the more complicated area of creating a new partition via the right click menu it is already perhaps understood that the process requires selection and execution. if creating a new partition via the right click menu it  would likely require selecting a type and file system but size could just be remaining freespace and auto executed thus returning to the main window and displaying the new partition. this would then be clickable and resizable like the others that may exist. if execute is pressed there is nothing to execute and nothing happens

 so the process is consistent, select a partition drag the slider to the desired amount, click execute and you see the desired change in a graphical form. the automation is only creating a new partition in remaining free space when a file type and files system are selected under create new in the menu. the user expects to see a new partition that can be resized like the others. if it is resized it will be the same process as with existing partitions.

thus should there be no partitions a create new would automatically create one after a type and file system is selected and return them to reduce its size to create a home and or swap. if they hit next at least there is a partition.

I am uncertain if this is an acceptable process but the redesign would give the feeling of control to the user in my opinion

One could use a button rather than menu but it adds buttons to the main window and thus potential confusion. if all is on the right click menu then all option other than resize are in one place and execute is obvious. if no graphical change is seen one may be hesitant to click next.

the delete option allows old windows partitions to be discarded and can not be completed without execution. another indication of required execution depending on the users goals.

well thats all I have on easy consistent partition management, I hope it was not a complete waste of your time.

cheers

edit : I am assuming in this scenario that should the wrong drive be chosen and a new partition created that it is only created in available free space and could more easily be deleted and existing partition resized to reduce any accidental damage. perhaps I am fool hardy.


Sorry about the delayed reponse. Those are great ideas. I will try to put some order in my thoughts and try to implement some prototypes. If it is simple enough, I think we could have more than one working version and check which one works better for us.

Thanks and keep the ideas comming.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
overthere
Vectorian
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Posts: 1281



« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2013, 07:48:06 pm »

rbistolfi, I apologize for the ramble. the first line of the post was the more important.

I was generally suggesting the design of a simpler gparted style all in one partitioner using the mock up.

ubuntu's implementation is not very user friendly in my opinion, however I do appreciate the idea of making a simple slider for those who have a single partition with windows who want to simply drag the slider back and create a second partition to install linux. Perhaps it is possible to have the best of both worlds.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 07:54:08 pm by overthere » Logged

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