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Author Topic: fast? .tlz? repos? a few basics (vector 7.0)  (Read 1950 times)
jessejazza
Member
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Posts: 14


« on: February 04, 2013, 01:57:38 pm »

I'd be grateful if someone could just clarify a few basics (day two for me with vector)

slack's fast - i've heard it said many times but why? The install seems to be much smoother than Fedora and Ubuntu although i thought Salix was even quicker than vector.

KISS? what is kept simple... that makes slack different from the Debian and Red Hat

stability? I keep reading in loads of places how stable slackware is. What is there that makes slack and derviatives stable. i don't mean just testing etc. Centos is very stable until one uses it as a desktop and accesses the 3rd party repos and problems start.

.tlz/.tgz - what is the difference between these and .deb/.rpm?
from what i've gathered so far they are the equivalent.

repos? - gslapt--preferences--sources has three repos checked.
http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-7.0/packages ..../extra ..../patches
but further down are the slackware 13.37 repos but compatibility?

- updates in the repos? there seems to be 6 versions of Thunderbird. I don't recall how xubuntu seemed to work but i don't think one saw the updates in synaptic.

Just trying to clear some initial queries.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 04:00:35 pm by jessejazza » Logged
bigpaws
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1847


« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 04:41:43 pm »

Your questions about Slackware for the most part. I can answer
them since my primary distribution is Slackware.

I choose not to answer the Slackware questions in order to keep
from upsetting someone. This forum is very tolerant of everyone
and all opinions. Heck I have even seen discussions on religion and
politics which have always stayed incredibly civil. If you were to go to
Slackware irc and mentioned Vector. You would not be welcomed.
Just leave it at that.

I will answer the Vector questions.

.tlz/.tgz is a matter of compression.

The are three areas /extra /testing and patches

extra - packages not included in the base Vector install
testing - packages that do not have enough users to confirm compatability
patches - The area for getting patches 

The labels are self explainatory imo, Vector can use Slackware 13.37
packages. There are references to Slackware mirrors, as well as third
party package repos.

xubuntu has a larger developer base and bigger resources which is why
it appears cleaner.

I see you have spent time looking through and understanding the distro
vs load and go. That will help you in the future, as well as balanced evaluation
of Vector Linux.

HTH

Bigpaws
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overthere
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1270



« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 04:59:50 pm »

My understanding is that each distro and its affiliates share a package management system. tlz, deb, rpm, etc. the source code for an application is packaged to meet the requirements of the distro.

For example one distro may include application dependencies by default through the included apps and make available additional dependencies and include them, when required, by a downloaded application via the package manager. when adding applications outside this system, although the application may install correctly when compatable, it may require additional files which are not known until you run the application and errors occur.

although many distros use .deb,etc there systems vary and although compatable with each other, it is always best to look in the home repositories before looking outside for applications to avoid dependence issues. should something not be available Vector linux offers a place to request an application to help avoid such issues but there are times when you may not wish to wait and so should choose more closely compatable slackware packages or research requirements for building from source.

in addition to the default three repositories is a fourth called testing. applications built for vector go here first for testing and when felt worthy are transfered to the appropriate default repository. the default list can be updated to include any additions since you last used the pm or you can add the testing list and look for and test apps from there. it is wise to remove testing and update the package lists to avoid issues when updating the system. this may avoid installing or replacing librarys with untested ones by accident.

speed is often due to reduced complexity and may be found in any light linux. vector is fast yet includes all the required tools to build packages and includes all the generally used applications in addition to a lighter desktop while maintaining a slick appearance, so it is mid range. big distros include so much bulk that it slows them down and some of this is in the desktop environment like gnome and kde. additionally drivers,libraries, applications often not seen and generally unused add to the bulk aswell.

stable systems work hard to ensure that all the packages and dependencies and modules work together in all ways and any added application is compatable. this is always difficult and not completely possible with the constant changes in each aspect of the system. those that can achieve closely this state have a stable system. debian testing is an entire testing system that is old enough to be generally stable and is often used by other distros. debian stable may be stable (or close as it gets perhaps) but may not include all the more recent changes in an application or applications which may effect the stability which is more important.

Vector,  although often overlooked, is very stable while offering many popular up to date applications. It is a surprise to many and if you like it feel free to tell others the good news

I am basically a new linux user who likes vector and this is just my thoughts on the questions. hope it helps

cheers
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 11:45:54 pm by overthere » Logged

Everything Is Relative
jessejazza
Member
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Posts: 14


« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 01:16:11 pm »

I choose not to answer the Slackware questions in order to keep
from upsetting someone.

When i used the term "slack" i meant slackware and slackware derivatives - in the same way that folk use "deb" to refer to debian and all the debian based distros. I wasn't attempting to get into any 'flame wars'.
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overthere
Vectorian
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Posts: 1270



« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 07:30:49 pm »

Everything is relative. If you feel your questions are unanswered, what would you like to know more about?
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Everything Is Relative
jessejazza
Member
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Posts: 14


« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 01:52:14 pm »

Everything is relative. If you feel your questions are unanswered, what would you like to know more about?

I think i've actually found my own answers in a roundabout way. The term 'simple' (aka KISS) is rather misleading Arch linux describe it as meaning "without unnecessary additions or complications". I always thought it was referring to the package management or something else. Basically the package management is the equivalent of .deb (called tgz) which is compressed binaries and i see why now there can be several versions... old ones remain as bigpaws said. Perhaps i'm thick and miss something but vector is no different to another minimalist distro like xubuntu although i'd say PClos isn't minimalist by comparison.

On slackware repos... i'm unclear which to choose. I was surprised not to find vim-gvim in vector repos. I selected source:
http://ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-13.37/
found vim-gvim. Couldn't find Emacs 24 the current version which makes me wonder how often the repos are updated - Emacs 24.2 released Aug 2012.

so which of the slack repos would be best to choose for the latest updates?
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retired1af
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1258



« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 03:31:20 pm »

The thing to remember about Slackware, is the repos aren't going to be "bleeding edge" when it comes to the latest and greatest. What you find in the Slackware repos would be considered "stable" releases.

Trying to be bleeding edge tends to break stuff.
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ASUS K73 Intel i3 Dual Core 2.3GHz
overthere
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1270



« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2013, 02:35:23 am »

One may say it is a matter of perspective. Personally I would not call vector or xubuntu minimalist but may place damnsmall or puppy in that catagory. Although Vector, xubuntu and pclos can use xfce as desktop the implementation of the gui and services run by default amoung other things can set each apart in various ways.

 Every one has an opinion but generally the best one is your own, decided upon by available facts. I like vector because it works out of the box for my hardware, offers multimedia support out of the box, has enough tools to satisfy my needs and default applications I prefer and am familiar with. I feel it is faster than most in its class due to the implementation of all these things.Yet someone else may say the same regarding another. I hope you enjoy Vector linux and that these links help in your search

linux distro time line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_distributions#Slackware-based
http://futurist.se/gldt/wp-content/uploads/12.10/gldt1210.png
http://futurist.se/gldt/

Info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slackware
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VectorLinux

review
http://www.osnews.com/story/25808/VectorLinux_7_Fast_Flexible_and_Supported
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 02:47:28 am by overthere » Logged

Everything Is Relative
Dark Rider
Member
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Posts: 65


« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2013, 07:31:57 pm »

Here's my two cents for what it's worth. As a windows user I have lived in morbid fear of the terminal since I first tried Novell Linux around 2000 and then Fedora 8 a few years later. This kept me away from slackware.  As I used Mint and the like I had to get comfortable somewhat with the terminal.  I'm a power user that likes all today's modern apps and shiny desktop but wants speed and stability. I even tweak Windows down to the bare must have only to run processes on my fast machine because I'm resource greedy. I find Vector has everything I want, looks great and is very fast compared to even Mint with it's tons of stuff I don't need or want. Use of the terminal is minimal and I only use it when I have to. After looking at other slackware I choose Vector because their philosophy, -  " The creators of VectorLinux had a single credo: keep it simple, keep it small and let the end user decide what their operating system is going to be." This is how a distro should be instead of trying to be everything to all out of the box IMO which bogs down the system. A good example here is PC-BSD Isotope 9.1 which weighs in at a hefty 3.5 gigabytes and that's before installation. I love the way it looks but if I had to use it every day I'd have to I'd kick something hard. I forget things easily and Vector has some great tools to help you get things done taking the burden off of me. The forum here and info at Opensourcebistro.com are some of the best resources for guys like me; a perpetual Linux newbie who looks for the best balance between old school Linux productivity and a modern PC desktop.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 07:34:08 pm by Dark Rider » Logged
MarkGrieveson
Vectorian
****
Posts: 531


« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 01:16:29 pm »

I just ignore the Slackware repos in Gslapt.  When I first installed, I selected a Slackware repository and updated and upgraded, and my system broke.  Perhaps for installing one package or two, but I would avoid them for system upgrades.  Also, I've rarely been able to find many packages there.

One difference between Vector and other distributions is the ease with which some source packages (IE, tar.gz or tar.bz) can be converted into an installable Vector package -- thus meaning that installing such a program can also be uninstalled with ease.  The way to do this is to run vpackager on it.  Then, if successful, the finished package will be created in /tmp/program-name/package.txz.  vpackager will install it if you choose that option, or to install you can simply use the file manager Thunar --> go to the created package and right-click on it, select install.

If there is a package you cannot find in Gslapt, and converting the source didn't work, then going to http://slackfind.net/en/ and searching for the package (preferably Slackware version 13.37) often works.  Download it, and simply use Thunar to right-click on it to get the install options.

rpm packages can be installed too, by creating a Vector package using the command "rpm2tgz".  I've been able to install the latest LibreOffice with this utility, along with various other programs.
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I am using VL7.0 standard with XFCE
hata_ph
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 3256


-- Just being myself --


« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 12:17:03 am »

Installing non VectorLinux own packages it not recommended for normal users as it may lead to system breakage...
Still VectorLinux allow advance users to install any slackware based packages as they want...
VectorLinux's own repositories should have the most basic packages that you require...if there is non...you can request it in the forum and someone will have to packaged it... Smiley
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The Headacher
Louder than you
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 1545


I like the bass to go BOOM!


WWW
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 01:14:02 am »

Quote
When I first installed, I selected a Slackware repository and updated and upgraded, and my system broke.  Perhaps for installing one package or two, but I would avoid them for system upgrades.

I am not a fan of just blindly upgrading everything. In a perfect world this should of course work flawlessly every time, but the truth is it's always tricky. This, I think is one of the biggest problems in Linux world (just did a search for 'linux broken after upgrade' and Google showed me over 44 million hits). Especially for smaller distributions, it's impossible to keep every package up to date and maintain system integrity for all users.

No matter how much I'd like to keep my things up to date, practice has shown me that auto updates/upgrades are always hazardous, and therefore I don't use them. I prefer a slightly outdated but stable OS to one that's up to date but severely broken Grin. But if you're going to upgrade all, you should probably make a backup before doing so. Just to be safe.

Quote
Also, I've rarely been able to find many packages there.
Slackware doesn't really do packages, just the ones that are on the installation discs and sometimes a few updates to those. Though there is some form of package management, Slackware users typically prefer to build their own packages using Slackbuilds, and have general distrust for packages from other sources than the official Slackware repositories.
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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
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