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Author Topic: VL 7.0 SoHo update problems  (Read 1528 times)
lopanrs
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« on: March 12, 2013, 11:09:22 pm »

Hello.
I`ll report some issues with my last update.
First of all i just run gslapt -> update -> mark all upgrades -> execute. As usual.
In the installation of glibc-solibs something went wrong and i end with no libc...and without one binary that depends of it working, Even ls.
So i boot with the installation CD1 and reinstalled all glibc, glibc-i18, glibc-solibs, glibc-zoneinfo. And then download all new glibc-2.14 and upgrade from the CD again.
It was solved, then try to boot on KDE and new problem: the libattica.so.0.3 was not found says the .xsession-errors, so i try a symlink from libattica.so.0.4.1 to libattica.so.0.3 and now it says that
libkdeui.so as undefined symbols and can not load kde4init
Then solved again installing kdelibs from VL 7.1.
I think should be less painful to upgrade VL system. The solibs problem is something that is written somewhere like the slackware upgrade text says !?
Now the system is running up and fine.
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VL SoHo 7.0 @ 3.7.5-pf
lopanrs
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2013, 12:43:44 am »

Link to samba-3.6.7-i586-1vl70 is also broken.  Sad
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VL SoHo 7.0 @ 3.7.5-pf
retired1af
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2013, 02:53:54 am »

First of all i just run gslapt -> update -> mark all upgrades -> execute. As usual.

Horrible way to update with VL. You should only be updating those things that you absolutely need to update. Selecting everything without checking is a fantastic way of breaking your installation.
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lopanrs
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2013, 03:16:21 am »

Well...then you may suggest a not horrible way to update the system !?
I just think that those packages that may corrupt the system should not be able to select...Anyway i fixed it all.
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VL SoHo 7.0 @ 3.7.5-pf
The Headacher
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2013, 06:03:39 am »

While I never use the update functionality, I do agree that it would be nice if this actually worked. 'update all' should never break everything, especially since this is the default way of updating packages on many distributions, and gslapt (our default package manager) just has this option. How are users supposed to know that on VL this tends to break things? Also, what does it say about VL that we can't just 'update all' for fear of breaking our installation? Perhaps our repos need better checking or we need to have volunteers risking their installations to make sure the 'normal' users are not subjected to troubles like these.
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retired1af
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2013, 07:41:19 am »

Sure, in a perfect world, one could launch and forget when it comes to updates. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury with VL.

Most of the larger distributions have hundreds of testers. When something gets announced in the forum here, we have what? 2 or 3 who actually take the time to install and test something? And even then, there are things uploaded to the repo and there's nary a peep out of anyone to say if they tested or not. And unless it's something I use, I rarely test an item out. Especially on my SOHO installation which is what I use most often when I boot my system.

I learned a LONG time ago never to mark everything and update. Even with the larger distributions like Mint, this can break something. Especially if you've gone out and installed a few things on your own. 

I've often thought that we shouldn't toss updates into the repository unless it's a security update or a definite performance enhancement. We just don't have the number of folks necessary to really test updates for every single item that gets packaged. Perhaps we need an area other than testing where things can be shuffled off to and held until needed for a version update of VL. We don't need to ensure that the latest and greatest is always available. What we do need to ensure is a rock solid distro doesn't break if someone does do a "select all" in gslapt. And with the existing manpower, that's just not possible.
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2013, 03:17:24 am »

Good points made above. It takes a lot of time and manpower to maintain reliable repos. I do not do "all available upgrades" either. My main worry is to keep Internet applications up to date.

Even the big boys are not immune to breakage from updates, just look at the recent Hotmail outage caused by a bad one.
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The Headacher
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 05:07:41 am »

I know guys, I do just like you because I at one time or another broke things by updating too.

Fact is, since we have the 'update all' function people will try it and possibly break their system the way things are now. And yes, it sometimes goes wrong on other systems as well, but it usually doesn't. How should users know that this functionality is extra dangerous on VL? A lot of people are just used to using the package manager for everything and trust it blindly. Because they can in other distro's (most of the times).

I can think of a couple of ways we might improve on this situation. Unfortunately, none of them is great IMO.
We could for instance:
1- remove the update all button from gslapt
2- add a warning to gslapt that tells the user it isn't very safe
3- split our repo's even further by adding a 'critical channel' with the security updates.

Other than that people of course have their own responsibility as well, but it would be nice to not destroy an install by just doing what people consider 'maintenance'. Especially since old software is often considered a security liability and updating is often offered as the only way to be safe. Whenever I tell someone I use a Slackware derivative they look at me like I'm crazy (I might be), because the other guys have proper repositories. I don't really care for them, but for a lot of people the repo's and package manager are the single most important thing about a distribution.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 05:21:36 am by The Headacher » Logged

Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
lopanrs
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 07:13:10 am »

I think gslapt and the repos are ok...Some exceptions of course. The only think i care to be up to date is the kernel...and it is excluded from gslapt.
The basic libs like glibc is the main problem...They can not be upgraded from a running system. My older instalation of VL 6.0 SoHo (used about 3 years) has packages from sbo, source, absolute linux, salix and slackware is was a kind of frankenstein system and gslapt never broke it.
Back to the 1st post, after installed kdelibs from VL 7.1 i got this problem http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=100819
Then i remove kdelibs and attica-0.4, installed kdelibs from repo, attica-0.3 and attica-0.4 and the system back to normal.
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retired1af
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 07:35:36 am »

Yeah, you shouldn't have tried to use a 7.1 package on 7.0. Virtually guaranteed to break something. As much as we'd like to provide an upgrade path to minor versions, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. It's on the list of "we'd like to do this sometime", but the reality of it happening in the near future is on the list of "what in the world have you been smoking?!". Smiley
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