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Author Topic: new release vl7.1-b0.20 needs testing  (Read 31689 times)
hata_ph
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Vectorian
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-- Just being myself --


« Reply #165 on: August 09, 2013, 05:00:47 pm »

As far as I know you just need the multilib version of gcc and glibc to be multilib enabled. The others 32bit library is only needed to run the 32bit applications like sopcast.
It is possible to create a multilib repo for all the multilib packages but if doing so why not just make multilib gcc and glibc come as default in 7.1? Since 7.1 is still in beta and everyone can test it out.

Another problem is to compile the multilib gcc and glibc packages. After reading alienbob's guide (http://slackware.com/~alien/multilib/source/), it seem the process is doable but is a bit complicated. We can use alienbob's precompile gcc and glibc packages but I notice 7.1 come with a newer version gcc and glibc compare to alienbob's. Either use alienbob's packages (which is the easier way) or compile it own multilib gcc and glibc packages.

I have tested alienbob's multilib gcc and glibc packages on VL 7.0 and it is working fine. I have create a multilib repo (http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/VL64-7.0/multilib/) too. Anyone can try it on their VL 7.0 64bit. So far I just tested on sopcast which is a 32bit applications. Just upgrade the multilib gcc and glibc from that repo, install the cxxlibs-compact32 packages from the multilib repo too and install sopcast packages from the untested repo.
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Joe1962
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Vectorian
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« Reply #166 on: August 11, 2013, 09:21:48 am »

One more issue, with multilib installed, you can have problems when trying to "make" some 64bit-buildable applications. The build process seems to find the 32bit libs instead of the 64bit ones. To fix this, I am using these 2 lines in the bash profile:

Code:
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/lib64:/usr/lib64:/usr/local/lib64"
export PKG_CONFIG_PATH="/usr/local/lib64/pkgconfig:/usr/lib64/pkgconfig"

Of course, when building a 32bit app, you would first run alien's script: /etc/profile.d/32dev.sh
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
The Headacher
Louder than you
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I like the bass to go BOOM!


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« Reply #167 on: August 12, 2013, 04:05:35 am »

Currently testing b-0.42. I'm afraid I don't particularly like it. She seems to be getting rather fat. My 7.0 SOHO uses around 100 MB in TUI mode, this one uses over 150 MB right after booting (as reported by 'free' and 'top'). A dramatic increase if you ask me. Especially if you take into account the fact that the SOHO install was running both CUPS and Samba deamon while 7.1 beta was not. Clearly there is SOMETHING eating a lot more resources than the previous release. 150 MB just to log in to a console is unacceptable IMO.

Also, the first virtual terminal (or whatever it's called, you know, the one under "ctrl+alt+F1") does accept keyboard input, it just doesn't show any characters. A fun challenge if you feel like it  Grin, kind of annoying otherwise.
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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
retired1af
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Posts: 1268



« Reply #168 on: August 12, 2013, 10:02:45 am »

You're going to quibble about 50MB in additional resource allocation with a newer, modern OS?  Seriously?
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ASUS K73 Intel i3 Dual Core 2.3GHz
roarde
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Posts: 551


move the needle


« Reply #169 on: August 12, 2013, 10:44:04 am »

OK, what newer, modern improvements do we get for this 50% (actually more, considering what's NOT running) higher RAM usage?

Seriously.
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Robert
VL STD 7.1 RC3.1, icewmvmods
The Headacher
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« Reply #170 on: August 12, 2013, 11:06:09 pm »

You're going to quibble about 50MB in additional resource allocation with a newer, modern OS?  Seriously?
Yes, I am. I don't see any reason why 'newer, more modern' is a valid excuse for 'a lot more resource hungry when not doing anything yet'. Like Roarde, I am pretty interested to find out what it does MORE than my old SOHO install besides being newer and more modern. As far as I can tell, I get pretty much the same functionality in both of them when starting in runlevel 2, except that my old install does more (run samba and cups) with less resources (actually, I usually have it run mysqld too, in which case it STILL uses less than 120 MB of RAM) . Doesn't mean there's nothing more happening, I just haven't found it yet. Only real difference I found at first was the animated bootscreen, which I quickly got rid of.  

Remember when VL was about 'lightweight'? When we tried to target older hardware? That was the power of VL IMO, and the main reason for me to try VL in the first place . There was a clear target audience. I don't need fancy animated bootscreens (though I must admit it looked impressive) if that's gonna make the OS harder to use. All I want for my OS is to run my programs without getting in the way.

This latest version is getting in the way too much for me to properly use for the purpose I had intended for it (it needs 250 MB just to get to Fluxbox, whereas the current SOHO version does it with 187 MB with mysql running). That's OK, I don't HAVE to use (the latest) VL for that purpose. I just think it's a pity that providing a lightweight base no longer seems to be a core value. I used to always be able to use the latest VL for pretty much everything, and I'm  Cry to see that go.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 11:23:17 pm by The Headacher » Logged

Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
vincent2
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« Reply #171 on: August 13, 2013, 01:28:41 am »

you can always order second hande ram stripe to add  on ur MB,especially nowaday it's in 5-10$ range for old sdram or ddr1 over ebay or  flea market n your area.
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The Headacher
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I like the bass to go BOOM!


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« Reply #172 on: August 13, 2013, 02:56:26 am »

@Vincent: No I can't. Both my old laptop and my singleboard computer are already maxed out. Besides, that's not the point. The point I make is that a minor version update results in using a lot more resources with no obvious benefits. I consider this a flaw (or perhaps even a bug) worth reporting, and certainly not a step forward worth upgrading the OS or computer for (if it were possible).

[edit]
I think it's better if I leave it at this. I just thought I'd share my concern about the sudden increase of memory consumption, not to start a flamewar or force my personal opinion on all of you. If y'all think that the extra memory consumed is of no importance to the average user that's fine by me.

let's get back to the bug hunting
[/edit]
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 03:07:10 am by The Headacher » Logged

Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
retired1af
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« Reply #173 on: August 13, 2013, 04:01:25 am »

There comes a time when old becomes ancient and unsupportable. Wanting a distro to support 10 year old systems that can't be upgraded is silly.  I fully support keeping things lightweight, but to expect to be able to run the latest and greatest OS on something that would have been otherwise retired ages ago is unfair to the developers. If you have to quibble about 50MB in resource usage, it's time to retire the system.
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ASUS K73 Intel i3 Dual Core 2.3GHz
rbistolfi
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Posts: 2291


« Reply #174 on: August 13, 2013, 05:00:41 am »

The concern about memory usage is valid. I think its about changes in the X stack. Many components have been deprecated and new ones have been introduced. The changes are, in general, at the API level. That means that allegued improvements are for Desktop Environment implementors.  User should expect better stability, faster fixes (with better APIs programmers can focus in fixing things that matters.) If this actually happens, idk. We have seen new APIs for user session handling (consolekit), IPC (dbus and friends), resource and power management (udisk). These components are in some cases optional, if you make the right decissions (like using a window manager that not depends on them.)
In a reflexive tone, I ranted about this a lot (remember HAL?), maybe its time to do our research and decide if we want to avoid them and how. In principle, it is doable because I did it for years by using an alternative window manager, mounting my disks when I need them, picking apps that do not use dbus, etc.
In mobile devices its harder, because networking applets depend on dbus, power mangement requires extra daemons, etc.
A sidenote. Keep in mind that estimating RAM usage is hard and most applications report just a close number. Also, RAM usage is affected by many components, so we do need to do empiric research to know whats exactly going on.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
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vincent2
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Posts: 410


« Reply #175 on: August 13, 2013, 05:44:15 pm »

@Vincent: No I can't. Both my old laptop and my singleboard computer are already maxed out. Besides, that's not the point. The point I make is that a minor version update results in using a lot more resources with no obvious benefits. I consider this a flaw (or perhaps even a bug) worth reporting, and certainly not a step forward worth upgrading the OS or computer for (if it were possible).

[edit]
I think it's better if I leave it at this. I just thought I'd share my concern about the sudden increase of memory consumption, not to start a flamewar or force my personal opinion on all of you. If y'all think that the extra memory consumed is of no importance to the average user that's fine by me.

let's get back to the bug hunting
[/edit]

you could always add swap file, configure it into proper size   with your old laptop and my singleboard computer ...thus to bang your system without  add more physical ram.....

by the way what's your  actual hardwares, mb, ram cpu now, if your cpu can support 64 bit computng,then with extra 50M or 100M vl7.1 can run better .... if your cpu doesn't support 64 bit computing, then it's another story....

now i think you'd test your hardwares of your 2 pc under knoppix 7.2.0 cd or dvd, you can boot it with unetbootin usb flash  pendrive....when booting chose 64bit knoppix in menu,  check whethr your hardware working properly or not... if it's running under 64 bit knoppix, then  same vl7.1 64bit, vl7.1  64 bit 're newer thAN KNOPPIX 7.2
« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 05:51:44 pm by vincent2 » Logged
The Headacher
Louder than you
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Vectorian
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I like the bass to go BOOM!


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« Reply #176 on: August 15, 2013, 12:56:36 am »

Alright looks like I got some apologizing to do. I got me a clean install of VL 7 STD and SOHO, and one of VL7.1 STD B0.42, and these are the different outputs of 'free' right after booting to commandline interface:

7.1 Std
Code:
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:        505480     159240     346240          0       9348     102672
-/+ buffers/cache:      47220     458260
Swap:      1022972          0    1022972

7 SOHO
Code:
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:        506504      95952     410552          0       8004      45596
-/+ buffers/cache:      42352     464152
Swap:      1022972          0    1022972

7 Std
Code:
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:        506764      92640     414124          0       9280      42720
-/+ buffers/cache:      40640     466124
Swap:      1022972          0    1022972

So, while it is true that 7.1 standard uses a lot more memory, most of it is cached and should therefore not be such a big deal (so I've always been told, my knowledge of the inner workings of Linux doesn't reach that far). The reason why I noticed though, is that I program JAVA in Netbeans, and it complains when memory is too low to compile. This happens quite often in 7.1 standard, more often than in SOHO. Apparently, Netbeans or whatever program it calls (javac?) does not think the cached memory is no big deal. Perhaps this is a problem in Netbeans or javac that needs addressing. I just don't know.


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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
bigpaws
Vectorian
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Posts: 1862


« Reply #177 on: August 15, 2013, 04:01:16 am »

The memory usage in Linux has been growing for years.

I stopped trying to run Linux on systems with less than 1 Gig
of RAM about four years ago. The swapping just from browser
usage was painful at best.

Funny how most of the browser improvements are to display
ads.

Programs and OS's are growing as fast if not faster than the
available hardware. That cycle should be broken. I am not sure
if that is possible.

Bigpaws
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overthere
Vectorian
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Posts: 1281



« Reply #178 on: August 18, 2013, 06:56:11 pm »

system = intel p4 cpu 1.7 ghz intel d845ept2
         768 meg ram
         1280 x 1024 f-417 neovo monitor
         gforce gf4mx440se 128 meg agp


Vector 7.1 bo.42.iso ( downloaded and burned with flburn on VL 7.0 light)

install went very well, choose advanced as partitions existed and vl7.0 light on sda1 so choose "/ "and grub2.

screen blank is active, a constant irritation with linux in general but ok,
 guess it is not possible to turn off to insure the screen is blank for other reasons.

click reboot ( kicked out cd, nice)

vector 7 linux, I like it

fast graphic then slows on this old box anyway
-------------------
flash text then error failed to open file'/usr/share/gdm/themes/VL-seven/background.png':no such file or directory
click the OK
-------------------
connect to wifi prompt, select network, prompt password, enter, connected

scroll on volume adjusts volume, nice
--------------------
reboot-- flash grub menu so fast was unable to choose or see if light was an option
-------------------------
same error prior to login splash  error failed to open file'/usr/share/gdm/themes/VL-seven/background.png':no such file or directory
click the OK
--------------------------
open leafpad to type what may be of use from this and saved. when opening in home double click opens named file with no text, right click requires hold to choose alternate geany and error opening defaults to new page.
-----------------
try commercial cd and dvd but issues, perhaps I do not know how..could post the experiance

edit: ok got it. you insert the cd or dvd then open mplayer click view and playlist then click the folder in the playlist to add the content of cd or dvd then it will play both..I was using file disc menu which is not working

adding: the right click hold is rather old school, thought it was my mouse but seems consistant.

the snapshot button next to the menu does not capture an image with the default save and I need to click the x for an error and close. If I choose open with the default geeqie then the window closes and the image opens in geeqie and is saved in temp. it can be then moved from the menu to the home directory.


« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 11:15:28 pm by overthere » Logged

Everything Is Relative
overthere
Vectorian
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Posts: 1281



« Reply #179 on: August 19, 2013, 06:29:35 pm »

Just adding I guess. I have a desktop folder on the desktop which contains the trashcan and help icons. deleted it and still have a trash can so guess I did not need that. all the hardware seems to be out of the box. the floppy is readable as are the other two partitions, although if I open a folder to look inside it takes much longer to eject the volume. there is an error that it is being used. the wireless works and I am posting with it. guess I mentioned that already. I do not use pidgin so guess that is the desktop will try the applications

Well the menu is looking good, the issue I seem to be having is with text, not sure if it is a font issue or bad install but it is a beta so thought I would post it. I get a mixed bag on reopens sometimes the text I typed, sometimes symbols and little boxs, sometimes both. well I made an attempt, later

« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 08:04:20 pm by overthere » Logged

Everything Is Relative
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