Author Topic: VL ongoing  (Read 12532 times)

M0E-lnx

  • Administrator
  • Vectorian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2019, 06:37:08 am »
Hi all.  Nice to see some familiar faces post.

I must apologize first.  I've been really busy lately and had totally forgotten about this thread.  It's nice to see that we still have some interest on the project.

Seems I am not alone in that a change of circumstances has rendered me unable to contribute to this project as much as I used to.

These days i'm pretty busy with my RL and $work and just dont have the time or energy to head anything like this.  As I have said in the past, I do have a bit of time to make smaller contributions, but someone else needs to play captain.

If anyone is willing to take the reigns, I'd be willing to re-build the infrastructure and setup the services that were lost in the last data disaster.  This will require some time since it has to be done from scratch again.  The original setup and configs were lost.

I believe with the help of those services, some of the daunting and time-consuming tasks are eliminated and efforts can be focused on the actual product.

As for direction of the project, I can only offer an opinion, but not much else.  At least not for a while.

I think most would agree that the linux desktop has evolved a lot.  On the surface you may not notice much, but under the hood, things are much different than they were 5 years ago, not to mention 10.

One of the biggest drivers behind that change is systemd.  We are at the point where it's almost impossible to build a relevant linux without some systemd component.  Systemd is now entangled into places you would never expect to see it.  From the init system, to network, to DNS name resolving, to desktop interfaces, and from what I read in recent days, there is even plans for a systemd-homed, which is supposed to take over some aspects of /home particularly for laptops for encryption and what not.

The point is that these days, it is almost inevitable to have at least some systemd library living if not fully operating on your box.  This also means that there are lots and lots of things that will require some systemd component to compile.

All of that before we even get to the bootloader, EFI, multi-lib, arch support, etc.

In my opinion, that leaves us with 3 options.

1) Re-build the project with a limited scope of target installs.  This would appeal to old hardware and will require effort to keep systemd off the system ( again, will be nearly impossible )

2) Jump on the wagon and make software that works.  This means installing systemd so that software that wants it can access it.

3) Crawl back under somebody else's umbrella ( ie, slack ) and create a spin instead of our own product.

IMHO, all of these options offer as many disadvantages as they do advantages.

I agree that it would be a shame to see the resources dedicated to VL go to waste.  I'm not opposed to either of the 3 options I laid out before, like I said, I just need somebody to take the lead and point in a (any) direction. 

I should be able to contribute small fixes, packages, infrastructure services and their maintenance, but I cannot build the product itself from scratch myself or make decisions as to which way to go on any issue.  I dont have the time or mental/emotional energy to objectively weigh each issue and decide one way or the other.

Once again, it was good to hear from everybody.  Will try to remain in touch here, and i'm always accessible as usual on freenode.

MikeCindi

  • Tester
  • Vectorian
  • ****
  • Posts: 1090
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2019, 09:30:14 am »
It's really good to hear from you M0E-lnx and what you are still able to offer is greatly needed for "VL ongoing".

FWIW my thoughts on the three options M0E-lnx presents:
1) It would seem that a distro without systemd would eventually be a dead-end. This would be short-sighted and Vector would again be in the state it's in now.
2) This seems to be the option that M0E-lnx is most favorable towards based on the information (and wording). If Vector is to be it's "own product" then this is the way to go.
3) This seems to be M0E-lnx's least favored option ("crawl back under").

I would be in favor of #2 as well but the huge obstacle that we face for any of the three is capable people with time to do what is needed.

Is the resource enough with vector doing the communications, M0E-lnx rebuilding what was lost, bigpaws and Metvas maintaining the forum and domain, etc., and
users such as myself helping with odds and ends? There are still big holes to fill...any takers/suggestions?
The plans of the diligent lead to profit...Pro. 21:5
 VL64 7.1                                     RLU 486143

M0E-lnx

  • Administrator
  • Vectorian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2019, 02:24:24 pm »

2) This seems to be the option that M0E-lnx is most favorable towards based on the information (and wording). If Vector is to be it's "own product" then this is the way to go.

3) This seems to be M0E-lnx's least favored option ("crawl back under").

I actually dont favor either option over the other 2, but with a caveat.  I would personally prefer not to get back under a slackware umbrella.  I dont think the development model is compatible with our plan and I fear we will again outgrow it and soon will be looking for an alternate upstream.

Quote
There are still big holes to fill...any takers/suggestions?
Yes there are.
There are discussions going on @ freenode for anyone who wants to join the active conversations.

overthere

  • Vectorian
  • ****
  • Posts: 1460
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2019, 02:32:13 am »
 So it sounds like an all new 64 bit only build with systemd, efi support and grub? What ever you guys decide it will be Gold and worth waiting for. Thanks
Everything Is Relative

metvas

  • Vectorite
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2019, 09:34:20 pm »
Hello:
What if I message each person who has been involved and see if there is any interest in taking VL further. Maybe a good idea ? At least then we will know for sure. I know Kait is too busy already contacted her and thanked her for all of her help over the years.
Darrell
Knowledge is Power, share it.
Be the change you want to see in the World

roarde

  • Vectorian
  • ****
  • Posts: 793
  • it's enough
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2019, 09:14:45 am »
Robert

hata_ph

  • Packager
  • Vectorian
  • ****
  • Posts: 3287
  • -- Just being myself --
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2019, 05:01:25 pm »
Hi guys,

I can help out in the testing and packaging dept when I am free.
Is VL still based on slackware and slackbuilds?

roarde

  • Vectorian
  • ****
  • Posts: 793
  • it's enough
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2019, 05:06:49 pm »
That hasn't been firmly settled, but probably not.
Robert

flip city

  • Packager
  • Vectorite
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Way Out In HyperSpace
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2020, 02:18:16 pm »
Hey Guys and Gals,
 Have been out of touch for some years, I know. But I missed the old forums, which are one of the best. I was saddened by the state of flux that VectorLinux is in. It seems that many Slackware based distros are finding themselves in a similar predicament. Ah ... Wolvix, Salix, Zenwalk, etc. While some are trying to stay viable like Absolute or perhaps Austrumi, it seems that the Future Shock of rapid and unpredictable change is proving to be too formidable a challenge for them.
 I had always enjoyed the Vector OS since 2009. And learned and shared a great deal from this forum of fellow enthusiasts.
 So my sincere gratitude to all and hoping that a resurgence is in the works for all Slaclware based OS's.
 Unfortunately life itself does often present formidable changes, and I also personally find myself in that category. Bewilderment ! Well I will let this go and wishing you all a very very Happy New Year !

|nic|

  • Packager
  • Vectorite
  • ****
  • Posts: 172
    • My Blog
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2020, 07:15:25 am »
Hi All,


I used Vector for quite a long time and I'm happy to help where I can.

regards,

Nic
registered user #393337

SuSE-Refugee

  • Ex-Officio
  • Vectorite
  • ****
  • Posts: 227
  • Dude In The Snappy Hat
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2020, 12:35:29 am »
Woah!
Haven't been here for years and frankly; been out of the Linux-loop for practical reasons, but it's sad to see this state Vector is in.
If there's still a chance to get it back to life, I'd be willing to help out where I can, but I'm sadly no developper.

As far as the technicallities go, I can't be bothered by which system is used, as long as it's fully functional.
The end-user experience may be more of a point.

Like: Have ONE application for each functionality in Gui and TUI each. No more!
But with a solid package-management to pull from the repository so the system can be built like Lego.
Aside from LFS I haven't seen that in any distro so far(and even there it's still too cluttered...); there's always too much clutter. Even in Vector.

I think such an approach would make development a lot easier too.

I see traffic is ridiculously low, but I hope it's not the end for Vector.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 12:40:37 am by Megamieuwsel »
<Lame sig>

Colonel Panic

  • Vectorian
  • ****
  • Posts: 550
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2020, 01:56:54 pm »
Like: Have ONE application for each functionality in Gui and TUI each. No more!

Hi there,

I agree (that's the approach Zenwalk takes), but I think you still need either a repository of packages of your own or access to another main distro's repository. In the case of Zenwalk it's based on Slackware and can install Slackware packages, and I think (though I'm not sure) that Solus uses Debian packages although it's not itself a Debian-based distro.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 02:27:34 pm by Colonel Panic »

M0E-lnx

  • Administrator
  • Vectorian
  • *****
  • Posts: 3506
Re: VL ongoing
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2020, 01:11:05 pm »
Hey guys,
Long time no see.

So, the problem with today's distros is that clutter is almost a must.  If you use a full fledged desktop environment, you're going to have all sorts of bloatware and for some ungodly reason, they all want to be tied to systemd which keeps gobbling up other parts of the environment with every new release.

Being busy with RL, i'm rustier than usual these days, but I think the days of the small and simple is not so simple anymore.

At the same time, from a development standpoint it makes no sense to re-invent the wheel, so it's tempting to use existing tools as bloated as they may seem.

Good to see some old folks still hang around here every now and again.

Cheers!