VL ongoing

[M0E-lnx]

Hi all.  Nice to see some familiar faces post.

I must apologize first.  I've been really busy lately and had totally forgotten about this thread.  It's nice to see that we still have some interest on the project.

Seems I am not alone in that a change of circumstances has rendered me unable to contribute to this project as much as I used to.

These days i'm pretty busy with my RL and $work and just dont have the time or energy to head anything like this.  As I have said in the past, I do have a bit of time to make smaller contributions, but someone else needs to play captain.

If anyone is willing to take the reigns, I'd be willing to re-build the infrastructure and setup the services that were lost in the last data disaster.  This will require some time since it has to be done from scratch again.  The original setup and configs were lost.

I believe with the help of those services, some of the daunting and time-consuming tasks are eliminated and efforts can be focused on the actual product.

As for direction of the project, I can only offer an opinion, but not much else.  At least not for a while.

I think most would agree that the linux desktop has evolved a lot.  On the surface you may not notice much, but under the hood, things are much different than they were 5 years ago, not to mention 10.

One of the biggest drivers behind that change is systemd.  We are at the point where it's almost impossible to build a relevant linux without some systemd component.  Systemd is now entangled into places you would never expect to see it.  From the init system, to network, to DNS name resolving, to desktop interfaces, and from what I read in recent days, there is even plans for a systemd-homed, which is supposed to take over some aspects of /home particularly for laptops for encryption and what not.

The point is that these days, it is almost inevitable to have at least some systemd library living if not fully operating on your box.  This also means that there are lots and lots of things that will require some systemd component to compile.

All of that before we even get to the bootloader, EFI, multi-lib, arch support, etc.

In my opinion, that leaves us with 3 options.

1) Re-build the project with a limited scope of target installs.  This would appeal to old hardware and will require effort to keep systemd off the system ( again, will be nearly impossible )

2) Jump on the wagon and make software that works.  This means installing systemd so that software that wants it can access it.

3) Crawl back under somebody else's umbrella ( ie, slack ) and create a spin instead of our own product.

IMHO, all of these options offer as many disadvantages as they do advantages.

I agree that it would be a shame to see the resources dedicated to VL go to waste.  I'm not opposed to either of the 3 options I laid out before, like I said, I just need somebody to take the lead and point in a (any) direction. 

I should be able to contribute small fixes, packages, infrastructure services and their maintenance, but I cannot build the product itself from scratch myself or make decisions as to which way to go on any issue.  I dont have the time or mental/emotional energy to objectively weigh each issue and decide one way or the other.

Once again, it was good to hear from everybody.  Will try to remain in touch here, and i'm always accessible as usual on freenode.

[MikeCindi]

It's really good to hear from you M0E-lnx and what you are still able to offer is greatly needed for "VL ongoing".

FWIW my thoughts on the three options M0E-lnx presents:
1) It would seem that a distro without systemd would eventually be a dead-end. This would be short-sighted and Vector would again be in the state it's in now.
2) This seems to be the option that M0E-lnx is most favorable towards based on the information (and wording). If Vector is to be it's "own product" then this is the way to go.
3) This seems to be M0E-lnx's least favored option ("crawl back under").

I would be in favor of #2 as well but the huge obstacle that we face for any of the three is capable people with time to do what is needed.

Is the resource enough with vector doing the communications, M0E-lnx rebuilding what was lost, bigpaws and Metvas maintaining the forum and domain, etc., and
users such as myself helping with odds and ends? There are still big holes to fill...any takers/suggestions?

[M0E-lnx]

2) This seems to be the option that M0E-lnx is most favorable towards based on the information (and wording). If Vector is to be it's "own product" then this is the way to go.

3) This seems to be M0E-lnx's least favored option ("crawl back under").

I actually dont favor either option over the other 2, but with a caveat.  I would personally prefer not to get back under a slackware umbrella.  I dont think the development model is compatible with our plan and I fear we will again outgrow it and soon will be looking for an alternate upstream.

There are still big holes to fill...any takers/suggestions?

Yes there are.
There are discussions going on @ freenode for anyone who wants to join the active conversations.

[overthere]

 So it sounds like an all new 64 bit only build with systemd, efi support and grub? What ever you guys decide it will be Gold and worth waiting for. Thanks

[metvas]

Hello:
What if I message each person who has been involved and see if there is any interest in taking VL further. Maybe a good idea ? At least then we will know for sure. I know Kait is too busy already contacted her and thanked her for all of her help over the years.
Darrell

[roarde]

Webchat

[hata_ph]

Hi guys,

I can help out in the testing and packaging dept when I am free.
Is VL still based on slackware and slackbuilds?

[roarde]

That hasn't been firmly settled, but probably not.

[flip city]

Hey Guys and Gals,
 Have been out of touch for some years, I know. But I missed the old forums, which are one of the best. I was saddened by the state of flux that VectorLinux is in. It seems that many Slackware based distros are finding themselves in a similar predicament. Ah ... Wolvix, Salix, Zenwalk, etc. While some are trying to stay viable like Absolute or perhaps Austrumi, it seems that the Future Shock of rapid and unpredictable change is proving to be too formidable a challenge for them.
 I had always enjoyed the Vector OS since 2009. And learned and shared a great deal from this forum of fellow enthusiasts.
 So my sincere gratitude to all and hoping that a resurgence is in the works for all Slaclware based OS's.
 Unfortunately life itself does often present formidable changes, and I also personally find myself in that category. Bewilderment ! Well I will let this go and wishing you all a very very Happy New Year !

[|nic|]

Hi All,


I used Vector for quite a long time and I'm happy to help where I can.

regards,

Nic

[SuSE-Refugee]

Woah!
Haven't been here for years and frankly; been out of the Linux-loop for practical reasons, but it's sad to see this state Vector is in.
If there's still a chance to get it back to life, I'd be willing to help out where I can, but I'm sadly no developper.

As far as the technicallities go, I can't be bothered by which system is used, as long as it's fully functional.
The end-user experience may be more of a point.

Like: Have ONE application for each functionality in Gui and TUI each. No more!
But with a solid package-management to pull from the repository so the system can be built like Lego.
Aside from LFS I haven't seen that in any distro so far(and even there it's still too cluttered...); there's always too much clutter. Even in Vector.

I think such an approach would make development a lot easier too.

I see traffic is ridiculously low, but I hope it's not the end for Vector.

[Colonel Panic]

Like: Have ONE application for each functionality in Gui and TUI each. No more!

Hi there,

I agree (that's the approach Zenwalk takes), but I think you still need either a repository of packages of your own or access to another main distro's repository. In the case of Zenwalk it's based on Slackware and can install Slackware packages, and I think (though I'm not sure) that Solus uses Debian packages although it's not itself a Debian-based distro.

[M0E-lnx]

Hey guys,
Long time no see.

So, the problem with today's distros is that clutter is almost a must.  If you use a full fledged desktop environment, you're going to have all sorts of bloatware and for some ungodly reason, they all want to be tied to systemd which keeps gobbling up other parts of the environment with every new release.

Being busy with RL, i'm rustier than usual these days, but I think the days of the small and simple is not so simple anymore.

At the same time, from a development standpoint it makes no sense to re-invent the wheel, so it's tempting to use existing tools as bloated as they may seem.

Good to see some old folks still hang around here every now and again.

Cheers!

[caitlyn]

Kind of a sad thread, isn't it?  Like others here I had real life get in the way of contributing.  I'm starting a new job tomorrow.  What dev work I'll do will be for work and I honestly have neither the time or inclination to come home from that to do yet more of it.  I'm 60 and I've had my share of health issues.  I feel relaunching VL will be a project for someone younger and more energetic if it ever happens.

It is possible to build a lightweight distro from a Red Hat/CentOS base or a Debian base.  I know because I was part of a team that did the former for an Israeli company.  Sadly there was no public release and the pandemic took it's toll on that business.  In any case if someone wanted to do it they could.  Without systemd?  Possible but difficult if you want a good selection of apps and a popular desktop.  systemd made life a lot easier for anyone maintaining large numbers of systems.  Whether you like it or not (and I do) it's a de facto standard nowadays.

Work on something Slackware based?  That's just not for me.

Anyway, I checked back out of curiosity.  It's nice to see familiar names, people I like and respect.  It's sad to see that VL is a dormant project at best and a dead project at worst.

[cyberbillp]

So it's been awhile.

I'll tell you my Vector story and how I ended up here today and toss out a random idea or two. Maybe it'll be inspirational to the project, maybe not.

After banging around with a few different distro's and even buying a few, I ended up on Vector. It ran the best, period. I still have my set of CD's in my closet.

I work for a primary Defense Contractor and found myself supporting a project that needed to back up ALL their data every night to disc. I ordered a rack mount system and built it with Vector Linux.
Each night support went in a dropped a new disc into the drive and each morning filed it away. It was 100% automated. I'm not at liberty to discuss the project but I can say Vector
has had a role in protecting the Nation. It's reliable light weight and fast.

Back to my personal use: Despite the efforts of LGP, I still found myself dual booting to Windows for gaming 99% of the time. Eventually a new computer went back to a windows install.
As I'm not a developer, I didn't find myself in Linux much.

So fast forward a few years....... The world has changed. Google has turned into satan personified. Facebook and Twitter are stomping out free speech, and the time has come to cleanse
my life of all things run by these anti-american big tech monopolies. (ok I know that's a bit of hyperbole', but bear with me a sec)

Enter: Pine64. They are producing a fully open source capable phone. It's designed from the ground up to run Linux. It runs an ARM soc has emmc and an sd slot.
Mine came with Manjaro, but I'm currently running MObile deBIAN (Mobian), no Google/Android, Facebook etc. touching it anywhere.

So why am I here? When I started thinking about the fastest lightest best Linux out there, I think of Vector. So I came by to see if it had ever been compiled for ARM,
and ended up in here writing this post.

If Vector needs a new direction, take a look at the PinePhone (or even their other open source oriented devices).
It's a laptop with a cellular radio in it and a touch screen, and the hardware design ethos is a perfect match for Vector.

People are already calling 2021 the year of the linux phone.

Thoughts?
https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

(I'm not affiliated with Pine in any way, if that matters)