VL pre-installed

[metvas]

This is an email from MadTux from today:
I am really pleased to report that the VL5.8 SOHO final ISO passed the tests
with flying colors on the $139 MadTux PC. I will be adding that to the store
tonight.
The higher performance PCs are being tested now and I will report back shortly.
Let's begin the countdown to rocking the Linux world with the Lean Mean Green
Machine!!
Will keep you all posted with blow by blow events, you will know the moment I do.
Regards
Darrell

[Masta]

Hello masta:
Yes, that is it pretty much it looked up a thread on simplemachines support site and was waiting for a response for just that function and how tp impliment it. Seems you read my mind on that one, lol (not much to read).
I do not have admin. rights to our forum is this a major deal or?
Are you able to impliment that function. If so i can manually administer psswds and expiry dates here, until we find something more functional.
Please let me know what work will be involved from your side.
Thanks much going live at Madtux this weekend with the VL machine.
Best regards
Darrell

As far as I know, only an admin can make the section. I can't remember for sure (without looking at the admin tables), but, I believe that an admin can create another admin for that particular part of the forum. This is not a global admin, nor is it a moderator. As for "timed Passwords" or accounts, I think that feature is available too (again without looking, I'm not 100% sure, but I will look into that and get back here to correct anything).

I am not an admin to this forum, but I am one of the admin's on the SG forum, and 3 other forums (not related to Linux) that use the SM forum app. So when I log into one of those, I will take another look around at the features. (yes, I just said that, hehe)

Hello All:
Just thought of this. The board we currently have for the Community will always exist as it is. Those of us already included will stay included. Would it not work better if we hide the existing forum and showed the new pre-paid forum?Huh That is if this is what we end up doing for now.
Just a thought.... any comments or suggestions

I wouldn't recommend that idea. However, what I would recommend is maybe having a higher priority for the paid section, where the "professionals" would most likely be found there, and on the normal section of forums, "community" support would rein as usual. Although Having a higher priority would be very a difficult task because of the speedy and accurate replies that we already have. Could it even be possible to get any better than it already is? I'd actually pay just to see if that's possible 

Other suggestion would be some type of live help besides irc. Maybe a web applet that runs via java script or something, where a paid user can visit via web browser.

Maybe a VOIP or some other type of voice service as well?

Also, instead of (besides) maybe the typical UN/PW account types, use a serial number , which could be verified through a database. Almost every product you buy from a store has its own unique serial number.
Just some ideas tossed out on the table. Now let me get off this before I start a book 

[rbistolfi]

I agree with Headeacher on this. The community is the base of linux.
I think you have a good idea when you propose a pre-paid support system based on email. If the system will be like a forum, I cant see why not to join this one and paid for another. If you go for a web-based + email system, I will help doing my best, as I said, I am not a pro, but I can do some php scripting; I am using the best OS around for free, I dont have much money, so, I will be glad to help and give something back if I can.
I think we need to be more practical on this. May be the devs, or the people in charge, should point a direction and say: lets do that, I need a web like this! As Headeacher said, this distro is loved by their users, and a lot of members of this forum have good skills, so, we can do a lot, but we need to know what to do.

To make things clear:
I can do some html.
I can do a PHP authentication script. No hi-security thing, nothing fancy. Just a database with authorized people data, a form to input username and password, compare both, you get it. But I am sure could be improved with the help of the forum.
I can help on databases design and general app design.
I cant handle sql language very well, i need help on that. I can do simple things, but nothing else.
I am not good working alone, I need something to point mistakes, and I am good improving other ideas, but not alone.
I have not much time. I have some, I can do some work, but I have a little baby and sometimes she needs me. I need to know something else is there to do it if I cant. I dont like fail to anybody, so, I cant take full responsability, but to be part of a team, I can do that, and I like that way.

So, that is it. If Vector Linux needs something from the list, I am in.

[GrannyGeek]

The board we currently have for the Community will always exist as it is. Those of us already included will stay included. Would it not work better if we hide the existing forum and showed the new pre-paid forum?

If I understand it correctly, this sounds like a terrible idea to me. This forum should always be open to anyone for reading and to members for posting. I'm sure there are people who are thinking of trying VectorLinux who come here first to check out the community. We may have quite a few actual users who never bother to register for the forum, but are content to read posts and don't want to write anything. Hiding this forum would be a disaster.

I doubt most users will sign up for paid support. That's an option that might appeal to users who need immediate answers to questions that may be out of the ordinary. The rest of us are content to post our question and wait until someone answers it, and if noone who knows the answer sees our question, we manage to cope somehow. But someone who pays for support has higher expectations for a prompt and accurate answer. E-mail and/or a private forum section would be appropriate for them.
--GrannyGeek

[DrGrov]

I have been idle about this topic and haven't thought about it too much until you, Metvas, said that:

The board we currently have for the Community will always exist as it is. Those of us already included will stay included. Would it not work better if we hide the existing forum and showed the new pre-paid forum?

That is not the way to carry on the fine traditions of VL.  The forum is the closest thing for a VL user to rely on, not only us that are registered, but also those users who pop in once in a while to read about a new package or an interesting subject being discussed on The Lounge. There is not a single community that would give me more satisfaction to be a part of than the community  of VL. The forum is a big part of the community, the IRC channel as well. These things can't and shouldn't be changed.
If this change becomes reality that the pre-paid forum will take over I will most certainly jump the ship but still be loyal to VL. I reckon quite many users think the same way.

[Triarius Fidelis]

Although I would have said it differently, I basically agree.

[LLL]

The comment was made that, paraphrasing, to pay for 'just a forum' would be a rip-off/disappointment.

BUT, I think a subforum for paid-for service where users will know their posts will get as immediate as possible response from the dev-team/those in the know isn't a bad deal.

Concerns whether the paid-for subforum detracts from the help offered else where in the forum...

Maybe the subforum, only visible to the 'help team' and paying customers, could be called 'Fastrack Answers'.

Concerns here whether a subforum with limited visibility works as well as our already great forum, where everyone can see and offer their $.02...

--

Keep the thought process going...progress!

LLL


 

[Triarius Fidelis]

And remember: "A soft answer turns away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger."

[exeterdad]

If I was to pay for support, I'd expect someone a bit more one on one. I don't think a secret place on a free for everyone else message board would cut it.

Would this server handle an additional php solution?  How about something like this?

http://www.osticket.com/index.php  Something like that would make paying customers happy.  And it's  open source as well.

[rbistolfi]

And remember: "A soft answer turns away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger."

Indeed, there is wisdom on that words.

LLL, I share your concerns. I am talking about a web-based tool because I think take money from people and give back a forum, just doesnt feel good for me. That was the original metvas idea. I think mail is more personal, and could give to the buyer a better service. I am thinking about this: 1. You go to a web site and login, 2. You fill a form with your request, including a description of the problem. 3. A "supporter" login at the admin site. 4. He see a table with all the requests. 5. He picks the requests he can solve and are "not taken" by others, he marks them as "taken" and contact the buyer by email. 6. An "administrator" can access to a site to add/remove users, etc.
My propose have a con: needs to be developed. The forum propose have a pro: is already there. I know that, I just think we need to indentify the rigth thing to do, and do it.

EDIT: Exeterdad beat me, that is the tool we need.

If I was to pay for support, I'd expect someone a bit more one on one. I don't think a secret place on a free for everyone else message board would cut it.

Would this server handle an additional php solution?  How about something like this?

http://www.osticket.com/index.php  Something like that would make paying customers happy.  And it's  open source as well.

That is the kind of tool I had in mind!

[metvas]

Hello All:
Thanks for your comments and thoughts all are carefully read.
So, getting off to where all this is heading to. A bit of a ramble but necessary right now.
Now that some comments and suggestions are in:

Scenario one: A customer buys a machine from MadTux with VL Pre-installed, and CHOOSES to take tech support that they are willing to pay for. Yes, everything here is were all this is going. Preferred support may be a term to use. If masta is able to set up a board that will not even be visible to anyone other than the admins involved and the customer that will most likely be the way it will go for now. Email support may be another route don’t really know yet until we see what tools we have available to us with simplemachines. I cannot make a decision until I have more information.

Scenario two: a customer purchases a deluxe version of VL all the above would apply automatically included in the price for a given time frame to be decided upon. Or if they wish they can visit the forum if they choose to. Why? This customer has helped us support ourselves.

Scenario three: A customer dwnlds our free base version. They will have the option to have pre-paid support if they wish to have it at an extra cost to them for a given time. Or pay a lesser nominal amount to use the existing forum. Amounts are not known but would be minimal.

Scenario four: A customer purchases a CD of VL  Deluxe or base from a re-seller for $1.99 or whatever that customer will have the option for pre-paid support. Or a nominal amount to visit the existing forum. As above
Why do this?
As I have tried to put out there we have offered to the Linux Community FREE excellent and legendary software and FREE legendary support. As a result I have subsidized VL since day one. The costs are always manageable but over the years, ( it has become an enormous amount. All we are asking is users to contribute a nominal amount for what we all know is legendary software and legendary support. No rip off no M$ tactics, just some support to become self-sufficient, is that to much to ask? We can have our own server have some funds to promote VL. I do not understand the uproar about this.
The customer always will be the winner, and VL gets some nominal support.
If someone would like to step forward and help me out financially and with the other duties required to keep VL going, I am all ears.
Linux is changing rapidly, faster than most of us can keep up with. These changes are bringing Linux into the Enterprise arena. Why should we not be in that arena??? Again I am all ears.
This is going to happen in one form or another; we do not have a choice!! I do not have a choice. Hopefully to the general agreeance of most of us, the VL community is more than tech help it is a community of us. That is why I suggested locking it, for us. Nothing more than protecting the folks who make VL what it is. That is it!! No scheming or back room deals.
Ubantu is close to VL, but in a lot of ways inferior. They are on top of the heap. Maybe look at their site, look at the pre-paid help, and think why?   We cannot go on forever operating at a loss. corporate sposors regularly see Linux desktop as not worth the effort. No one is planning or going to get rich with this plan. Just become who we deserve to be and that costs.

I trust this clarifies things somewhat, and as always I would really appreciate your comments suggestions and concerns.
most of all Thanks to the community!!!
Best regards
Darrell

[newt]

"[chew, swish, spit] No sir, I don't like it."

I'm not feeling this direction at all.  I don't like the feeling of being rushed.  I don't like the idea of a pay-for forum ONLY.  I don't think the pay-for technical support is worthwhile at this stage - let madtux do it.

Guess you could say that I'm categorically opposed to what you are proposing, metvas.  It seems your intensions are right, just the timeing and mode-of-attack isn't.

That's how I feel.

newt

[MikeCindi]

And remember: "A soft answer turns away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger."

Interesting quote from Pro. 15:1...and to add to it...Pro. 15:22 (also 11:14 and 24:6) - Without consultation, plans are frustrated, But with many counselors they succeed.

As a community I believe we can come up with a viable solution for this to work...just not sure what it is yet though.

[LLL]

If financial support is needed, I would like to see us go transparent - 'open,' if you will - with our finances as an organization. Then, I would like to see a fundraising campaign based on the presented need.

Right now we beg for donations on the home page suggesting a need, but as an end-user that is removed from those costs, it just sounds like every other project saying "we need your support." If I were able to see "Cost XYZ + Cost ABC = Total Cost" I would be much more likely to contribute.

Replacing this forum with a paid-for option (my understanding...?) does not sit well for me, and I believe it would drive users away.

$.02.

LLL

[easuter]

Ubantu is close to VL, but in a lot of ways inferior. They are on top of the heap. Maybe look at their site, look at the pre-paid help, and think why?

Its a lot easier for Ubuntu to offer support the way they do since they have a company backing them (Canonical).

As I see it, paid-for tech support would probably have to involve full-time paid Linux gurus and developers that could respond immediately to any support requests (directly to the user), which is what Canonical, RedHat and Novell have.

How about organizing a yearly fundraiser? The Gentoo Wiki has such fundraisers to keep its servers running, etc..:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/News:2006-10-02_-_Fundraiser_Over

I also agree with LLL about the costs transparency: user will be much more likely to contribute if they know exactly where the money will be spent. Once again, the Gentoo Wiki fundraiser had a line up of what the money would be used for:
http://gentoo-wiki.com/Gentoo_Linux_Wiki:Fundraiser_Sept_2006

What will the funds be used for

    * Bandwidth costs
    * Hard drive to store backups from wikimasterv2 to squiddy
          o Backups are curently starting to exceed 20GB
    * RAM upgrade for squiddy to 2GB
    * A new development machine

My $0.02