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Poll
Question: What would be the killer punch for VL 6 ?
Graphical Installer & VASM - 19 (16.5%)
Super fancy desktop (with Beryl, 3D driver, ...) - 15 (13%)
Great slapt-get based repository - 45 (39.1%)
Fast multimedia system (real-time kernel, jackd, ...) - 23 (20%)
Support thin client SOHO system (linutop, ...) - 7 (6.1%)
Other .... - 6 (5.2%)
Total Voters: 66

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Author Topic: The "Punch" for VL-6  (Read 25925 times)
M0E-lnx
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Vectorian
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Posts: 3179



« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2007, 12:07:00 pm »

Amen to that!... the suspend2 and synaptics are really important, so We'll need a kernel compiled with those features.

As far as beryl goes, the project's future is up in the air right now, no decission yet, or development activity. However, an xorg upgrade is long overdue for us. Once we get that, no matter what comes out of beryl/compiz or whatever other project might come along... It'll just be a matter of building the source.
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Triarius Fidelis
Vecteloper
Vectorian
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Domine, exaudi vocem meam


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« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2007, 12:24:12 pm »

The new VASM(2) and the graphical installer are certainly worth being on that list as killer apps for VL6.

Since that came up second in the poll (thus far), I should let you know that my admin suite can be made ready for the next release. The menu component I wrote can fall back to original VASM for anything I haven't done yet, and there's not too much left to do anyway.

Let me know if you're interested.
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"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2160



« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2007, 12:55:49 pm »

Since that came up second in the poll (thus far), I should let you know that my admin suite can be made ready for the next release. The menu component I wrote can fall back to original VASM for anything I haven't done yet, and there's not too much left to do anyway.

Let me know if you're interested.

I'm interested in helping where I can Grin
Also have to talk about zenity...I'm in the IRC room at the moment...
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incognu
Packager
Vectorite
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Posts: 256



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« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2007, 01:46:32 pm »

I voted for "Great slapt-get based repository" (which we're getting to now, anyway). 

...
What about full source code release too?
We don't currently have anything like SRPM source archives that contain the package source and build script in one bundle...hmm...
This is an interesting idea.

Put a higher priority on the live CD. I can't pass out free installation disks and expect my friends to install it. But if I give a friend a live CD, there is a good chance he will see VectorLinux in action, and possibly give it a shot.  Of course, the live CD should have an install option. Add some utilities like GParted so the live CD can be used as a rescue disk with toolkit. Maybe have a suite of tools listed under a "Rescue" or "Recovery" category available from the V-menu.
That's another good point, I think.  I like the idea of a VL live rescue cd with gparted, etc


So in short no real knockout punches, just a matter of getting it all to gel and be right.  Incremental improvements.  I suspect the big jump will be the graphical installer - the rest is mainly about polish and balance and continuing to get it right... does that make any sense?
.
Absolutely, it makes sense.  Re the graphical installer, I'm happy with text-based.

I don't feel that any major changes need to be made in VL:  I think the "punch" is already there.  It's just a matter of keeping on improving what VL already has.
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Vector Linux 6.0 Light
LLL
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Vectorite
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Posts: 263


The sun is shining...


« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2007, 03:41:32 pm »

Thumbs up to more work on the Live CD - has many benefits for the uninitiated Linuxers...

Thumbs up to more complete laptop support, too.

Thumbs up to VL's development in general - the distro improves, astounds, and makes me giddy at the new possibilities with each release.

LLL
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Lost & Lovin' Linux...living on:
VectorLinux 6.0 with XFCE on Thinkpad T43p (2.13 GHz | 2GB | 60GB)
tomh38
Vectorian
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Posts: 913



« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2007, 05:10:26 pm »

I voted for the Graphical Installer & VASM, since it would make VL much easier for people coming over from Windows.  I've "converted" a number of people from Windows to Linux, but with Vector I've always done the install, because (I think) most average Windows users would balk when the first thing they're faced with in Linux is a command prompt and a text- or ncurses-based installer.  Don't get me wrong, for me the current installer is great.  As for VASM, as it is it's a great configuration tool but as with the installer could be a little confusing or intimidating for a new user.

I also like the idea of focusing more on the live cd.  I've been giving out Vector live cds for a while now, and that's how I convinced a few people to switch to Linux (though not all chose VL).

I concur with the idea of excluding K3B from VL Standard.  It's a the best cd burning app for *nix that I know of, but introducing any KDE depencies would slow things down enough to make VL Standard a bad option for a lot of older systems.

I'd like to add that aside from the poll, for me the "punch" with Vector has been the knowledge and friendliness of the Vector community.  Nobody has told me to RTFM, or called me a n00b, and every time I've asked a question someone has responded very quickly.  Without the helpfulness of the developers and other users, Vector would be as good a distro as it is.
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
Pita
Vectorian
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Posts: 1310


« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2007, 07:13:50 pm »

I thought the installer for VL-5.8 is graphic My be I am too old. VL installs just great the way it is, then why change. As for a "punch" don't mess with it, stay as you are and I won't have to move house again.
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Kocil
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Eko M. Budi


« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2007, 12:25:48 am »

stay as you are and I won't have to move house again.

This could be the best "punch".  Why didn't we think about it.

I remember when I was fighting in a martial art contest, I was in complete control.
My coach just gave this suggestion, "you know what you are doing, just kick him harder".  Grin


« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 12:31:09 am by Kocil » Logged
nubcnubdo
Vectorian
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Posts: 675


« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2007, 01:35:20 am »

Quote
...introducing any KDE depencies would slow things down enough to make VL Standard a bad option for a lot of older systems.

Speaking of bogging down the system, there are some games that totally take over system resources, and basically, dont run well on a 500 MHz computer, almost freezing it up. It's hard to recover a system once the game is running. Is there a fast and dirty way to stop a game that is bogging down the computer that way? Assuming the troublesome games are retained, maybe there could be some sort of warning or designation for resource-intensive games that freeze up an older system. For example, put an asterisk beside the games that are intended for higher end machines. When I am selling a computer, it's embarassing when a game takes over a box like that, and I must hit the reset button to recover, and explain why the computer won't play this game.

I havent observed KDE slowing things down, even when I call K3b, which is installed on all seven of my VL 5.8 Std boxes.  Is KDE slowing down my system?  What is the size of kdelibs?

lagagnon has a good point: It makes sense to keep the burning app light. Graveman could definitely use some improvement ("fixating" error). XCdRoast is a bit difficult to install. I still havent tried Bashburn, but that app is inconsistent with the GUI style of default apps. I mean, if there was an entry for Bashburn under Multimedia, that would be better, because how can I expect the new owner of a computer to even know Bashburn is there.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 01:50:04 am by nubcnubdo » Logged
Toe
Member
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Posts: 76


« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2007, 03:44:34 am »

I voted repo and VASM/installer.

In particular, I'd like to see the wall between SOHO and Standard torn down, and LiveCD too if possible.  Develop concurrently, release concurrently.

I'd like to be able to start with an installation of Standard, add KDE and other SOHO apps, and end up with the same system as if I'd started with SOHO and added Xfce and other Standard apps.  In practice it doesn't quite work like that today.

Get all the install packages from both versions in one repo, and then build the ISOs directly from those packages.  I'd like to be able to use something like Jigdo to build my own ISO from the repo.  Heck, maybe even use it for the official ISOs?  Alphageek's Sligdo script/template for using Jigdo to build Slackware ISOs from the repo would probably be a good place to start.

I've also been wondering if a common 'clean' environment for building packages with checkinstall would be helpful.  Something that would start with only the packages common to the common versions of both Standard and SOHO and then builds from there.  I'd like to easily be able to start it up, install the dependencies, build the package itself, shut it down, and have the install still be 'clean' for the next use.  The clean base itself would probably be read-only, and then use UnionFS or something to bring a writable drive in.  Obviously that's a lot like how LiveCDs work, so a LiveCD would probably be a good candidate for the clean base.  Otherwise, a separate install on a read-only partition, or maybe even something like VirtualBox or VMware could be used for the build environment.  The build environment should have access to the local package cache and install CD, since every time you use it it's only going to have a very minimal set of packages installed.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 03:57:48 am by Toe » Logged
Colonel Panic
Vectorian
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Posts: 526


« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2007, 04:48:06 am »

Yeah, I think this is a very good idea if it is possible. Ubuntu apparently runs as a live CD unless you decide to install it.

As for KDE, it should be possible to prepare "install packs" like the .sfs files which exist for Puppy, where you can add on functionality for extra web browsing (Firefox + Java etc.), Open Office and KDE, i.e. for several different programs at once.

However, my main suggestion is to make the Vector install completely modular, so that if you mess up your XFCE installation, for example, you don't have to reinstall Vector all over again in order to recover it. I know there are workarounds for this but it'd be nice to be able to do it by default.

I don't know how practical these are from a developer's point of view.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 04:49:37 am by Colonel Panic » Logged
OU812
Vectorite
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Posts: 156



« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2007, 04:58:51 am »

If you compare standard with soho, standard just doesn't measure up in terms of completeness. And the apps just aren't as good as the ones bundled with soho. I think, especially in the multimedia area, standard needs improvement:

1. Replace graveman - perhaps with gnomebaker
2. Add a music manager such as exaile
3. Include streamtuner

Perhaps include software to partition and back up files, folders, and directories; an app to set up your nfts drives with fuse; maybe even some tools for remastering the iso to create your own vl. I could go on, but I'm mostly stealing ideas from puppylinux and wolvix. Again, I vote for completeness.

john
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Joe1962
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2499



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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2007, 05:26:20 am »

an app to set up your nfts drives with fuse
I'm sort of working on a universal mount helper gui. Perhaps planning is the better word for it though.
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http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2160



« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2007, 07:37:23 am »

Quote
1. Replace graveman - perhaps with gnomebaker
2. Add a music manager such as exaile

Gnome baker needs HAL, a resource hogging daemon...so I doubt that will happen. Its a pity that Graveman's development has stagnated, it has great potential.
About exaile: I find amarok work faster enevn on my P3 900 box.

As far as completeness, that is more subjective.
That is why Standard and SOHO exist, so that you can make a choice to either suit your needs or hardware.

This doesn't mean that new and better apps should be left out, but if they bog down the system (especially on not-so-new machines) then they might have to be reconsidered...
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lagagnon
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Vectorian
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Posts: 1922



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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2007, 08:36:01 am »

However, my main suggestion is to make the Vector install completely modular, so that if you mess up your XFCE installation, for example, you don't have to reinstall Vector all over again in order to recover it.

I don't really understand that statement I'm afraid. xfce is automatically installed properly in VL5.8 Standard. Do you mean mess up the configuration files? There is a feature already in VASM to cope with such issues which is "VASM, SKEL".
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"As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers". Robert G. Ingersoll
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