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Author Topic: Looks like OpenSolaris might use GPLv3  (Read 10560 times)
easuter
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« on: June 13, 2007, 11:35:31 am »

Looks like the upcoming releases of OpenSolaris might be licensed under GPL3:

http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/hp_and_sun_partnering_around

and Jonathan Schwartz's rebutal to Linus' skepticism:

http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/one_plus_one_is_fifty

So Sun can benefit from Linux's drivers, and Linux can finally have the awesome ZFS and DTrace.
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caitlyn
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 01:34:16 pm »

Interesting.  I posted my opinion on this on http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2007/06/linus_take_on_sun_opensolaris_1.html (my O'Reillynet blog) and I am not nearly as optimistic as you are.  I'm not holding my breath until ZFS for Linux is released.for sure.

Anyway, I did tip my hat to you in the post  Grin  Thanks for making me aware of this.

-Cait
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easuter
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 01:50:40 pm »

Hehe thanks Smiley

I guess I may be a bit too optimistic, but from what I have read on Wikipedia (and in Linus' book), there was also a lot of skepticism when IBM decided to jump into the Linux/GPL boat. Luckily IBM seems to have turned out to be an honest contributor.

Theodore de Raadt's comment was indeed insightful, and from what he mentioned you can still see the isolationist nature of the "old" Sun Microsystems lurking in the background.  Undecided

« Last Edit: June 13, 2007, 01:54:17 pm by easuter » Logged

saulgoode
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 02:28:26 pm »

I, also, see this as progress in a good direction. Far better to have a corporation viewing Free Software as an opportunity for growth than as an adversary to eradicate. Yes, it has been more talk than action, but there has been a good deal of action on Sun's part and at least the talk is the "good" kind.

The real growth in the computer industry doesn't lie with getting a hundred million users to upgrade from a dual-core to a quad-core; the target should be the five billion people who don't even have a computer.
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 02:41:34 pm »

Indeed, Linus has a good point

Quote
They may like open source, but Linux _has_ hurt them in the
marketplace. A lot.

But they could be smart enough to understand that open source is a way to get back on the game, and I agree, Linux has a lot to offer to Solaris, may be more than Solary has to offer to Linux; so Linux needs to find the way to claim an equal feedback.
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 02:43:00 pm »

I, also, see this as progress in a good direction. Far better to have a corporation viewing Free Software as an opportunity for growth than as an adversary to eradicate. Yes, it has been more talk than action, but there has been a good deal of action on Sun's part and at least the talk is the "good" kind.

I'd go as far as to say they've done more for software libre than IBM.

They at least haven't called the GPL a "cancer".

(And just think of all the contributions that ultimately filtered down to Linux from the academic youth of many Sun alumni: 'vim', for one, is based on Bill Joy's vi design.)
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incognu
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 06:11:48 pm »

Slightly OT, I'm still not aware of a fully-libre gpl release of Java yet.

I've heard lots of good talk, but I'm still seeing proprietary type licences and restrictions involved:
Quote
Not all of the source code that makes up the JDK is available under an open-source license. In order to build an OpenJDK binary from source code, you must first download and install one or more of the following files from which the build process will copy over "binary plugs" for these encumbered components.
Quote
International Use Restrictions
Due to limited intellectual property protection and enforcement in certain countries, the JDK source code may only be distributed to an authorized list of countries. You will not be able to access the source code if you are downloading from a country that is not on this list. We are continuously reviewing this list for addition of other countries.
src: clicky

I just took a look in Slack current's jre package (jre-6u1-i586-1.tgz), and see the same old "Sun Microsystems, Inc. Binary Code License Agreement" there ... (clicky); and Debian still has it listed as "non-free" in unstable.

Maybe I've missed something Huh, but I have to admit I'm still a bit sceptical ... time will tell.
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2007, 07:41:14 am »

You are rigth incognu. But I think this is not about honor, this is about power. Sun will join open source if can take an advantage of there, or if it is forced to do it: Open source could be an alternative to keep a project alive if you dont sell the project to anybody, or people (one nice day may be) claiming for open source on their computers.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 10:58:32 am by rbistolfi » Logged

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metvas
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2007, 10:45:29 am »

Hello All:
Let us NEVER forget this:
There has been moderately active Linux community in Russia, with
availability of cheap hardware and good programming skills. However,
there has been little government or institutional support, and a lack
of understanding of why one would want not to use Windows. But not
anymore.

Runet and Russian official media have been flooded with discussions
and instructions on open source, and what it would take to drop
Microsoft 'soft' altogether. All this has been prompted by the recent
legal case of 'Microsoft versus Ponosov'. Alexander Ponosov is a
school director from a Perm' region (Ural mountains), who does not
seem to be an 'advanced' Windows user himself (which in Russia
usually means word, exel and powerpoint). However, he was charged
with violating Microsoft copyright, and under the current legal
provision could be sentenced for 5 years in jail. Plus Micrisoft side
demanded 266.593.63 roubles (presumably calculated to equal 10.000
dollars, but the dollar is falling), from a school director whose
salary is probably 200-300 dollars per month (at best!).

What is it all about? 20 computers in his school computer lab, with
illegal copies of Windows, claims Microsoft side, that violates
piracy law and its IP.

It started as a quiet case, but gradually became a matter of national
concern. It became about "American multi-national mammoth
corporation" against "a little man" of our own. The fact that Ponosov
(whose name, curiously, might be translated both as related to 'nose'
as well as 'diarrhea' that is widely referred to in Runet) looked
like he had no clue what it is all about, was an 'ordinary' man,
making very little money in a remote secondary school, unconnected to
IT sector, showed how unwise Microsoft actions were. Until then
Russia was demonstratively trying hard to fit Western IP laws. But 5
years in jail for 20 computers in a school lab?
This a short version of the M$ law suit. FTA
Regards
Darrell

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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2007, 10:54:30 am »

That's a good story, but what's the connection with Solaris and the GPLv3?
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caitlyn
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2007, 12:20:57 pm »

Quote
But I think this is not about honor, this is about power. Sun will join open source if can take an advantage of there, or if it is forced to do it: Open source could be an alternative to keep a project alive if you dont sell the project to anybody,

rbistolfi hit the nail on the head.  For a long time now Sun had talked the talk about Open Source and done a good job of it, largely for PR purposes.  When it comes to walking the walk they rarely follow through.  Sun's history with words is good but their history in actions is poor.  Linus' skepticism is well justified, IMHO, hence the tone of my own article.  Read Theo de Raadt's comment in full -- he illustrates this beautifully. 

Linux is estimated to have anywhere from 32-39% of the server market nowadays.  Microsoft has been stable at around 42-43% for years.  Most of Linux' market share has been swallowed whole from commercial UNIX vendors and Novell.  Linus is right about one thing:  Linux has hurt Sun badly.  Sun may be choosing to embrace Open Source and Linux much as Novell has as a survival strategy, not out of any actual belief in Open Source philosophy or an Open Source business model.

Please don't get me wrong.  I'm not anti-Sun.  I've made good money doing Solaris administration.  I've liked Sun hardware and still do on when it comes to their high end stuff.  I have no problem with their software other than it being mainly proprietary.  I certainly wish Sun success.  I just judge them by their actions and take their words with grain (or maybe a boulder) of salt.

-Cait
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incognu
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2007, 01:29:54 pm »

Quote
But I think this is not about honor, this is about power. Sun will join open source if can take an advantage of there, or if it is forced to do it: Open source could be an alternative to keep a project alive if you dont sell the project to anybody,

rbistolfi hit the nail on the head.  For a long time now Sun had talked the talk about Open Source and done a good job of it, largely for PR purposes.  When it comes to walking the walk they rarely follow through.  Sun's history with words is good but their history in actions is poor.  Linus' skepticism is well justified, IMHO, hence the tone of my own article.  Read Theo de Raadt's comment in full -- he illustrates this beautifully. 
...
-Cait

Yes, that's my impression.  I saw all the talk about java being gpl with few results thus far.  I hear lots of slick talk from Sun about the gpl and Free software, but I still see silly encumbrances and restrictions on the code.  I honestly wouldn't bet against seeing an easily-usable hurd kernel before seeing a truly libre solaris.  Shocked

Quote from: Theo de Raadt
...
Lots of nice open words were exchanged, but no action.
...
That's it in a nutshell, imo.
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2007, 02:13:13 pm »

yeah, but may be we could give a twist to this. We dont need Sun becomes a Open Software believer. If they release their stuff under the gpl, who cares why? I see a future when a lot of software becomes open source, even guindows. Not because Bill will become a nice guy, but because open software is the best way to do this. Is about power, but may be Linux is more powerful than we believe, and in the future will be in a position to force the adversaries into open software. If win cant run succesfully on x_64 plataform, then linux will beat it. OS will be the only way to keep th development active. Mocosoft itself is looking linux with other eyes (novell / lg electronics agreements) may be because they want to learn something about computers  Smiley, they recognize a future when linux is more powerful.
Of course this are just ideas, but shows an scenario  where doesnt matter if Sun or whoever are truly Open Software believers. Is impossible to know the future, the open software destiny is attached to many variables, but we can think in a few possibilities.
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incognu
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2007, 02:44:38 pm »

yeah, but may be we could give a twist to this. We dont need Sun becomes a Open Software believer. If they release their stuff under the gpl, who cares why?
Sure ... the thing is, I'm not sure if they're going to go through with it, or just talk about it.  (I'm not sure when we'll see truly libre java, for that matter.)

One interesting possibility raised in the kernel mailing lists is that a GPL3 Solaris could nudge the Linux kernel in the direction of GPL3 compatibility via dual licensing (v2 and v3). 

In any event, I'll be happy to see more code licensed under the GPL, and more things moving to GPL3;  I'm just a bit sceptical about whether Sun will follow through with actions. 


Quote
I see a future when a lot of software becomes open source, even guindows. Not because Bill will become a nice guy, but because open software is the best way to do this. Is about power, but may be Linux is more powerful than we believe, and in the future will be in a position to force the adversaries into open software. If win cant run succesfully on x_64 plataform, then linux will beat it. OS will be the only way to keep th development active. Mocosoft itself is looking linux with other eyes (novell / lg electronics agreements) may be because they want to learn something about computers  Smiley, they recognize a future when linux is more powerful.
Of course this are just ideas, but shows an scenario  where doesnt matter if Sun or whoever are truly Open Software believers. Is impossible to know the future, the open software destiny is attached to many variables, but we can think in a few possibilities.

Shuttleworth (Ubuntu) said recently that he believed Microsoft would ultimately be against software patents. clicky  I think libre/open source is superior for developing software, but Microsoft imo is less about software development than about marketing and control ... and I think their patent deals (the most recent being with Linspire) have less to do with a current openness to Free software, than another attempt at spreading FUD and exerting control.  I think you're right, though:  they do realise that linux is growing and could well be the future.

It's not so much that I'm picky about Sun's motivations, but rather that I don't yet know whether their words are just glitz, or whether they'll do what they say.
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2007, 03:16:25 pm »

Indeed, control is the goal, I was just drawing a "possible world". Is really amazing, they do crappy os, but in bussisnes strategy, they are like a chessmaster. I wish they could use their intelligence for something else.
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