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Author Topic: 64-bit VL  (Read 27323 times)
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2007, 06:35:23 pm »

One of my computers has a 64-bit CPU, but I can't volunteer to test a 64-bit version of VL. I would have to repartition my drive yet again and I don't want to do that.

If  64-bit official release came out, I might install it in place of VL 5.8 but ONLY if everything I want to run would work without recompiling and kludges.

Cinty:
>> The highest RAM i could get in a home machine was 2GB, shared with the graphics card >>

My very inexpensive 64-bit Compaq, bought in January, 2006, can take 4 gigs of RAM. I'm surprised you couldn't find a "home machine" that would take more than 2 gigs--or maybe I'm misunderstanding. Mine came with 256 megs (obviously inadequate) but I intended to increase that when I bought it and the price even with the RAM I bought was still extremely good. Within two weeks of getting the computer I increased the RAM to 1.5 gigs, but I recently upgraded it to 3 gigs because RAM is very cheap right now and I like having plenty of RAM for my virtual machines. And who knows? Maybe the world will come to an end and I'll decide to upgrade XP (also on the computer) with Vista. I have no such plans now, but I've learned to never say never.

rbistolfi:
>> The needs of 64bits cpu in the low end market is just generated by the publicity, and is not a real need >>

Newer processors are always being developed and they displace the old processors in manufacturing facilities. Newer processors then carry a premium price as older processors go down in price. If I'm buying a computer or CPU, I won't deliberately get something already obsolete if something newer is in my price range. Even if I don't need it now, I probably will in the future. I agree, though, that many users don't need 64 bits or dual core.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
rbistolfi
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2283


« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2007, 03:43:43 am »

I agree, Granny. The low price of 64bits cpu is a factor, I have one no because is a needed, but because the price difference was insignificant. The dual core are not needed also, but they are a big improve on performance, and developers will build more demanding apps, according to the new hardware, eventually.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
bigpaws
Vectorian
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Posts: 1850


« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2007, 06:08:59 am »

The problem is that newer processors, bigger hard drives, and such
allow 2 things to happen. One being a user that is loaded with viruses
and malware can continue using their machine. The other is that the
design for stream lined programs that carry low overhead is no longer
thought about. Not to mention auditing is even harder.

The user without dual core or 1 gig of RAM is forgotten. I personally
use stream lined programs. The other problem is that end users are
demanding more without looking at the whole picture.

My .002

Bigpaws
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GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2007, 03:02:17 pm »

One being a user that is loaded with viruses
and malware can continue using their machine. The other is that the
design for stream lined programs that carry low overhead is no longer
thought about.

The desire for streamlined programs vanished many years ago. Most users don't know what you're talking about, those with adequate equipment don't care, so it's only a small techie contingent that mourns the loss of tight code.

As for the load of malware, I sure don't advocate sticking with slow computers as a solution. If users won't learn safer computing habits for what they have, I don't think anything will force them to do it. I've never had a virus or malware on my computers (I've had Windows since 1991).
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
cintyram
Packager
Member
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Posts: 72



WWW
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2007, 10:52:47 am »

Cinty:
>> The highest RAM i could get in a home machine was 2GB, shared with the graphics card >>

My very inexpensive 64-bit Compaq, bought in January, 2006, can take 4 gigs of RAM. I'm surprised you couldn't find a "home machine" that would take more than 2 gigs--or maybe I'm misunderstanding.
--GrannyGeek
Granny,
 I meant that when i went to buy a machine, among those available on display, the highest available RAM was 2GB. not the capacity. most new ATX mother boards support maximum capacity of 4GB or more.

Most end users just buy a machine, they don't upgrade RAM etc.  even if they do , it will be at the time of purchase, under the influence of the sales person.
either way looks like the poll indicates that there is not that much interest in a 64-bit VL from a dev, testing perspective.

cheers
ram

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The Headacher
Louder than you
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 1548


I like the bass to go BOOM!


WWW
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2007, 06:12:09 pm »

Quote
I meant that when i went to buy a machine, among those available on display, the highest available RAM was 2GB. not the capacity. most new ATX mother boards support maximum capacity of 4GB or more.

With 2 GB of ram, other pieces of hardware are more likely to be the bottleneck, like the videocard. I'm sure my perfect computer is not on sale anywhere, I'd have to upgrade a stock computer or build myself. This is fine, because I am a moderately advanced computer user.

Computers on sale in "normal" computer stores are meant for "normal" people who don't have a need for more than 2 GB of ram. I have 1.5 GB of ram and never use all of it (according to the tools available), even though I push it pretty hard at times. It's hard to imagine anyone who buys his/her first computer running low on ram with 2 GB even on Wind OS Vista. Users who need more than this probably already know so, and can get an upgrade at the store. I do mean proper computer stores here, not electronics stores or the local supermarket.

Most people just don't need a quad-core 64-bit computer with 16 GB of ram and 2 video cards. But if you need one ( or want it bad enough ) and have the money you can get it. But if I were a store owner I wouldn't display a computer like that either, it's just not economical.
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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
Lyn
Vectorian
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Posts: 650



« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2007, 01:19:40 am »

Quote

FWIW, the issue I personally complained about was internationalization/localization, and I promptly went to work building packages to address that.  It's still a work in progress but it's getting there and other people have done fantastic work in this area.  When vector built Xfce 4.4.0 with all the language support I was thrilled.  I guess that's why I feel safe raising issues like this -- the developers are very good at listening to and responding to their user community.  I don't think a lot of distros do that as well as Vector.
That is one of the things that impresses me most about Vector, the developers have a way of making people feel that its their own distro, they are happy to take on suggestions and ideas.  Look at how the look and feel has been adopted with some talented people customising window managers and producing stunning wallpaper, where non packagers views are taken seriously in constructing a set of applications that work for them.  My own experience included back in the days of Vector 4 standard getting some simple spreadsheet programs included that I thought would enhance the appeal of the lightweight verson.... Vector is a distribution that listens to its users... and long may that continue..... now if I could only get my head around packaging I might be of some more use :-)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2007, 03:17:36 am by Lyn » Logged
Joe1962
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2499



WWW
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2007, 10:00:45 am »

It's hard to imagine anyone who buys his/her first computer running low on ram with 2 GB even on Wind OS Vista.
Actually, it doesn't seem to be so hard to imagine. According to most reviews out there, you REALLY need 2 GB of RAM just to run MS office on Vista. And 4 GB of RAM to get any recent 3D gaming done... Shocked
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
nubcnubdo
Vectorian
****
Posts: 675


« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2007, 08:02:56 pm »

We had to push and prod to get the devs to finish up the VL 5.8 Std LiveCD, what, 6 months after VL 5.8 Std went Gold. Four versions: VL 5.8 Std, VL 5.8 SOHO, VL 5,8 Std LiveCD, VL 5.8 SOHO LiveCD. That's a lotta choices and a lot on our plate.

I think we should concentrate on the computers, and thus the users, that Microsoft Vista leaves behind. Leave state-of-the-art for another distribution.* We dont have to be all things until we get in the Top Ten or Top Five, and attract more users and developers. Let's not spread our efforts too thin. Instead, cultivate our niche. We're tops at what we do now--speed, performance, stability. I dont see any significant increase in VL stats by catering to 64-bit consumers.


* Heck, let M$ have state-of-the-art. Microsoft is driving the hardware industry anyway, with the likes of Vista.  Keeping up with state-of-the-art is playing Microsoft's game on Microsoft's court.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 10:14:26 am by nubcnubdo » Logged
caitlyn
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2876


WWW
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2007, 12:38:36 pm »

For those who haven't noticed yet, 64-bit VL is now a reality.  I've downloaded VL64 5.9-Psuedo0.1 and will be testing it and packaging for it.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
wcs
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1144


« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2007, 10:34:17 pm »

Quote
I've downloaded VL64 5.9-Psuedo0.1 and will be testing it and packaging for it.

Same here, as soon as I get some more time. I don't know if there will be that many of us packaging for the 64-bit version though.
Hope it will turn into a reality...

Actually, I have no idea if the benefits are that great. I would certainly like to test some simulations written in R in both versions.
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Vxt
Member
*
Posts: 86


« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2007, 09:43:01 am »

To be or  Undecided not ?

Quote
I'm just afraid of people who come here for a while, then their needs change
and suddenly it seems to them that "VL needs to change" (accordingly of course).
 While the distro itself still has everything that made them come here in the first place.
It would be hard to sum all up any better !

Just for background- the vast majority of droolers & wannBeZ that insist on "their distro_flavour_of_the_ moment'
Rule as THE Linux  El-Supremo _

W H Y ??

Respectfully -&  Embarrassed not in any manner to denigrate any  personal viewpoints _ it is contended:

If any 'special needs' - we should try to  develop our OWN pet project to fulfill

If the users "need" any binaries pre-supplied - some requests don't seem  realistic

E.G.  > Why on earth would they then  use PRE SUPPLIED  binaries in first place ?

That  was one precept to ~ why sources-based platforms were concieved !
(and virtual 'linux-within' chrooted development jail ~ environments)_

In reality ~ it  seems the concept of 64-bit vs pure computing power_
is presently better served using SMP
(I.E. ~ Do  You Wink  USE  distcc Caitlyn ?)

According to Gentoo - there are many Apps that do not  adapt well to 64 bit;
And yes - there may be a performance "hit" to running in 64 bit mode !

ANY benchmarks still  apply only primarily to the individual's environment
> hardware - Linux savvy - tasking ~ 'emperically' tested 

It would seem a safe bet,  most don't even use present inherent latency  or tmpfs to best advantage

Why not then  1st master what is available vs  pander to un-posted 'qualified'   perfomance  statements ?

Seems to me - The whole premise & strengths of FOSS;
 were all about  enabling  unlimited self-empowered choice

NOT "Linux must rule the world"

And sure as H - - - shun  MY distro gotta be 'bestest' cannabalism
 
That wierd behaviour - is enshrined weekly in  I.E.  DWWeekly  non-stop fanBois dissing * eating  own !
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uelsk8s
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2504



« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2007, 08:07:21 am »

Well, You asked for it, so now we need your help testing it.
http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/Uelsk8s/old-pkgs/VL64-5.9-STD-A2.iso
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alexdsp
Member
*
Posts: 1


« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2007, 06:38:10 am »

I try to install it on my hardware (amd64 x2 3800 + nvidia 7900gs)... (sorry for my bad english)
Hardware recognized quite fine, sound, monitor resolution and refresh, but network (nforce430 (mcp51)) is not.
At the booting time, after running rc.m, i saw error message like something about "ifconfig is missing".
After the "login" as root, i have test network commands (ifconfig,ping etc.) with no success.
Also, i notice that the famous vpackager present as 32 bit package.
Does the vpackager in this release can make 64-bit packages?
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GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2567


« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2007, 05:49:41 pm »

I installed it today on my troublesome laptop: Turion 64 X2, 2 gigs RAM.

dmesg shows a bunch of errors, for example, many lines of "PCI driver blahblahblah lacks driver specific resume support." I couldn't set up a network. I use fixed IP addresses, and when I tried to type in my computer's IP address in VASM networking (192.168.2.12) I got "Invalid IP address." This happened no matter what I typed in as the computer's address. I know the IP address is valid--I've been using it for years on this computer.

The ifconfig command is apparently missing. I got "command not found" when I tried to run ifconfig as root. I also couldn't find it through the locate command after doing updatedb as root.

VL recognized the sound chip and installed the snd-hda-intel driver, but as with all other distros I've tried on this laptop, no sound comes from the speakers. So 64-bit VL couldn't do anything about that ongoing problem.

Without the wireless network and sound, the laptop is useless to me. I hope at least the wireless can be fixed in the next version.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
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