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Author Topic: Keep your laptop and Vista both.  (Read 8882 times)
ekp
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« on: July 13, 2007, 06:20:09 am »

My daughter is leaving for college this fall and as every parent does I bought her a laptop for college.  It was an IBM thinkpad with all the bells and whistles including dual core and 2g of RAM.  Vista came installed.  Well after having played around on it for a while I have come to the conclusion that it is the most bloated piece of crap I have seen in a long time.  I hate looking at an LCD and all the power sucking programs running in the background make it slower than my XP1800 with only 250 mgs of RAM.  Of course if you are running MS then you have to have antispam, antiphish, antivirus and firewall all running all the time for fear of getting caught with your pants down on the internet.

The desktop is so busy as to make your eyes hurt.  IE 7.0 reminds me of the stupid browser that AOL put together for their dummies.

I will keep my desktop,CRT and Linux .........."thank you very much"

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tomh38
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Posts: 913



« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 10:57:49 am »

ekp,

I agree with except for the part about LCD monitors.  Having said that, I hate laptops.  The keyboards tend to be small and even less ergonomic than regular computer keyboards, those little touchpad things are a real PITA, upgrading is very difficult, and if any part of the thing goes bad the chances are that you have to send the thing back to the manufacturer to have it repaired, since the electronics are all munged together with the chassis.

And yes, Windows Vista sucks donkey ... uh ... kong.
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
lagagnon
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WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 01:47:22 pm »

Spot on about the laptop comments ... it is a fact also that laptops are twice as prone to failure as desktops and twice as expensive to repair. Of course, they are also very eaily stolen. I never recommend them to my clients unless they absolutely must have them for their work. CRT screens still have much faster response time than any LCD and thus fast action gaming is still much easier on the eyes on a CRT.
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"As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers". Robert G. Ingersoll
The Headacher
Louder than you
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Posts: 1553


I like the bass to go BOOM!


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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2007, 04:52:40 am »

I agree that touchpads aren't too great, but if you forgot your mouse they're better than nothing (I prefer using an optical USB mouse though). How well would a desktop work without a mouse? It would be hell for most of us. On a laptop, you can still use the touchpad. It isn't meant to replace the mouse in office situations, it's there for when you're out and need to use the laptop. If you actually have to use the laptop on your lap, where will you use the mouse? On the legs of the person sitting next to you?

If you do work at an office and do use a laptop as your main computer, you can always decide to dock it. Just attach a keyboard, a mouse and a monitor, and you'll be able to use it more ergonomically.

I use my laptop "everywhere"; I take it to school, I take it with me to a friend if we're going to make some music, I take it with me if I'm going to visit my mother (she's a real computer junky too). Try that with a desktop and a crt monitor.

I don't mean to say that laptops are superior to desktops or the other way around, just that they're meant to be used differently. If you buy a laptop and just use it as a desktop it's a waste of money. But if you want to have your own computer with you wherever you go it's the way to go.
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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
tomh38
Vectorian
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Posts: 913



« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2007, 07:30:52 am »

Oh, I agree with you completely, The Headacher.  For mobility laptops are a must-have, and work very well in that regard.  Personally, I don't need that mobility in my work or for fun.  I'm sure if I did, I would get used to what I find are the inconveniences of laptops.  Perhaps some day I will need to.

Also, sorry to repeat myself, but ... Vista sucks.
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2007, 10:24:04 am »

I think you laptop bashers are nuts!<g>

I have two desktops and one laptop. I've had a laptop since 1993. I don't travel. I seldom take my laptop anywhere. So why would I never, ever be without a laptop?

Because it unchains me from the desktop! I spend just about every evening sitting on a comfy rocking chair in the living room with my feet up while I watch TV and do my e-mail, forums, and Web browsing. I have enough Ethernet connections around the house so that I can sit anywhere, or even out on the deck, and be connected to the Net.

Yes, laptops cost more, comparatively, than desktops, but not so much these days. You can get a perfectly adequate laptop anytime for $450 US or less. Yes, if something goes wrong, you probably need a pro to fix it. You just have to keep your fingers crossed that you don't have a problem, and there's a good chance that you won't.

I don't like touchpads. Instead, I use a regular USB mouse. I use the laptop on a small lap desk and there is enough room for the mouse. If you're traveling light, there actually is enough space on the part between the keyboard and the front of the laptop to run a wireless notebook mouse if you have to use the laptop on your lap. Or use the touchpad in those circumstances. If you turn off "tap to click" the touchpad isn't so bad.

As for LCDs, I much prefer them to CRTs because they seem to be brighter, so easier for my aging eyes to see. I can't stand the way CRTs take up SO MUCH space and they also give off a lot of heat. Right now my two desktops have LCDs and the laptop does, too, of course. lagagnon: "CRT screens still have much faster response time than any LCD and thus fast action gaming is still much easier on the eyes on a CRT." LCDs have become much faster and I don't think CRTs are *much* easier on the eyes now. That used to be true.

The fact that I cared enough to bother to write this should tell you something because I've been afflicted with what is probably gout in the lower knuckle of my left little finger. Very painful. To reduce pain caused by movement we immobilized my little finger. After 50 years of touch typing, having no use of my left little finger is difficult and I'm making lots of typing mistakes. Fortunately, the finger is much better today and I should be able to remove the splint in a couple of days.
--GrannyGeek
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GrannyGeek
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2007, 10:24:45 am »

My daughter is leaving for college this fall and as every parent does I bought her a laptop for college.  It was an IBM thinkpad with all the bells and whistles including dual core and 2g of RAM.  Vista came installed.  Well after having played around on it for a while I have come to the conclusion that it is the most bloated piece of crap I have seen in a long time.  I hate looking at an LCD and all the power sucking programs running in the background make it slower than my XP1800 with only 250 mgs of RAM.  Of course if you are running MS then you have to have antispam, antiphish, antivirus and firewall all running all the time for fear of getting caught with your pants down on the internet.

The desktop is so busy as to make your eyes hurt.  IE 7.0 reminds me of the stupid browser that AOL put together for their dummies.

I will keep my desktop,CRT and Linux .........."thank you very much"


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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
GrannyGeek
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2007, 10:51:50 am »

Of course if you are running MS then you have to have antispam, antiphish, antivirus and firewall all running all the time for fear of getting caught with your pants down on the internet.

It's a myth that a non-clueless user needs all that stuff running all the time. In Windows XP I use a nonsystem-sucking AV all the time. That's it. I've never used a software firewall and am firewalled through my router. For antiphishing I rely on my own brain, which has not let me down so far. I run anti-spyware software once in a while and in several years, nothing serious has ever been found, so I'm not particularly worried. My computing habits are such that I'm not likely to get infected. I don't do P2P, don't download and run programs of questionable origin, don't visit porn or similar sites, and don't click on stuff that just shows up. I've never had any malware in 20 years of computer use, 16 of them with Windows.

Quote
The desktop is so busy as to make your eyes hurt.  IE 7.0 reminds me of the stupid browser that AOL put together for their dummies.

You can use a Classic desktop and most elements are user selectable. I don't use IE7 much (Opera is my browser of choice in Windows and Linux), but I prefer IE7 to IE6 because it has tabbed browsing.

I don't use Vista but I've seen it and read a lot about it. I have no plans to get it for my present computers, only one of which is fully capable of running everything in Vista. When I get a new computer it'll come with Vista, but I don't see a new computer in the stars unless my laptop up and dies (it's 4-1/2 years old). But I use VectorLinux most of the time anyway.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2160



« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2007, 11:42:58 am »

Quote from: GrannyGeek
It's a myth that a non-clueless user needs all that stuff running all the time. In Windows XP I use a nonsystem-sucking AV all the time. That's it. I've never used a software firewall and am firewalled through my router. For antiphishing I rely on my own brain, which has not let me down so far. I run anti-spyware software once in a while and in several years, nothing serious has ever been found, so I'm not particularly worried. My computing habits are such that I'm not likely to get infected. I don't do P2P, don't download and run programs of questionable origin, don't visit porn or similar sites, and don't click on stuff that just shows up. I've never had any malware in 20 years of computer use, 16 of them with Windows.

Well, thats you!  Wink Tongue

Some of my friends fall into the "clueless boob" category, they click on every warez and pr0n link, download non-stop using peer-to-peer. None of them have routers by the way, and so they need to run all the freeware/shareware security apps to get some kind of security. I've suggested that prudence and changing habits will prevent most of the problems, but that doesn't sink in.  Roll Eyes
Somehow some people think that having all that software installed means they are immune, kind of like thinking that because cars have airbags it means one can drive recklessly...

And thats unfortunately how a lot of people use their computers!

BTW, I also refuse to fix any computers (for free) if I've made these suggestions and have been ignored.  Tongue
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 11:57:29 am by easuter » Logged

tomh38
Vectorian
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Posts: 913



« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2007, 11:48:06 am »

GrannyGeek,

I don't hate laptops in the same way that I hate, oh, let's say ... child abuse.  I hate them in the same way I hate bananas.  I really hate bananas.  I have no problem with other people eating bananas; I just don't like the texture or the taste.  Probably "hate" is too strong a word.  It's more that I dislike laptops for myself.  Probably for me the real problem is the keyboard, which is why if I had one I'd probably use a docking station whenever possible.  Something I do dislike is when some columnist says I should ditch my desktop and get a laptop.  I see these columns from time to time.  I just don't want a laptop and won't get one until I have to (for work, for example).

Vista, on the other hand ... I've tested it and used it on other people's machines.  How Microsoft took five years to come out with this clunker is beyond me.  Since SP2 came out, Windows XP has been a really good OS, some would say excellent.  I'm recommending VL to everyone I know, but if they insist on using Windows I recommend to them that they get a copy of XP before they're all gone.

You're right that non-clueless users don't need all that stuff running all the time.  On the other hand, a lot of users don't have that clue when it comes to computers.  My sister-in-law was ready to throw out (as in the garbage) the computer I had built for her and my brother not a year earlier because it would freeze up within minutes of every boot.  Of course the thing was just loaded down with spyware and viruses, which I fixed for them in about an hour.
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
gacl
Vectorite
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Posts: 218



« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2007, 12:34:32 pm »

I only have two computers: two portables. They haven't left my desktop since i bought them. What i really like about them is that they are quieter than a desktop because the discs are smaller and they have fewer fans ( my Dell has no fans at all ).

CRTs make a high-pitched noise that i find very annoying, similar to a TV. LCDs make no noise at all, unless you count the power supply, but that one's on the floor on the carpet.

I've grown so accustomed to the touchpad that everytime i have to use a mouse it feels a little bit weird. And i hate it when i try a distro and the tapping is disabled, like in the latest version of Puppy.
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“Our very lives depend on the ethics of strangers, and most of us are always strangers to other people.” -- Bill Moyers
rbistolfi
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2290


« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2007, 01:34:45 pm »

I am using a crt monitor. I hate this one in particular, but is a little old, small and curve. I need a new one  Roll Eyes. I like crts in general, they are too big though. A flat screen is a must for your eyes health.
About laptops, I wish to have the money to buy one, they are so expensive here! And my new baby is pulling me out some resources  Wink, her mother helps on that Cheesy, what can I say, I love them both.
I work on a windows 2000 box, and I have XPSP2 too in the office. I am working on a migration to vl, I think I will convince mi chief soon  Wink. I have managed to keep the xpp box to work well, but the 2000 box is a hell. Someone installed kerio personal firewall on it, good software, but not light. I did try to replace it with jetico, much lighter, but I cant turn off the kerio with out a system crash, the router is not helping at all, and a reinstall looks like a fate. The problem is hard to diagnose, the tools avaible are not working. I think you can keep your own ms box working well, but a production box, or a public one, is a little hard.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

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Jumalauta!!
Kocil
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Posts: 96

Eko M. Budi


« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2007, 02:28:23 pm »

Well, I work with laptop for about 90% of my computer time.
Since 1993, I've bought and broken/trashed 6 laptops. That's about 1 for every 3 years  Roll Eyes
But I still love them Smiley

but I don't love Vista ............. yet.
Maybe 5 years later, after laptops with 10 GB RAM are common.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2007, 02:30:34 pm by Kocil » Logged
Kocil
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Posts: 96

Eko M. Budi


« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2007, 02:42:17 pm »

My daughter is leaving for college this fall and as every parent does I bought her a laptop for college.  It was an IBM thinkpad with all the bells and whistles including dual core and 2g of RAM. 

Lucky daughter ...
Who says girls don't play computers ?
And with the super laptop like this ... imagine what she can do ....
She may run VL, get vmplayer, then run 6 other VL virtual machines.
Or she can run Vista as a virtual machine too ...  Tongue


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GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2007, 02:45:55 pm »

I only have two computers: two portables. They haven't left my desktop since i bought them. What i really like about them is that they are quieter than a desktop because the discs are smaller and they have fewer fans ( my Dell has no fans at all ).

I forgot to mention the lower noise of a laptop. I really hate loud computers. My quietest computer isn't the laptop, though, but my Compaq desktop. You can barely hear it. It is gloriously quiet.

I've considered replacing the onboard video with a PCI-e video card but doubt the performance improvement I'd get would be worth the tradeoff in noise. I'd need a new power supply and would have to pay for one with an extremely quiet fan. The video card itself would come with a fan--more noise. I could look for one with passive cooling, but good passive cooling is expensive and I don't know if I trust the cheap passive cooling.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
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