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Author Topic: Okay VL user, what do you do for work?  (Read 20542 times)
metvas
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Posts: 311


« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2007, 08:49:31 pm »

Quote
I tell them that's not relevant to the subject matter we're studying, and if someone else has a question which is relevant, please ask
Regards
Darrell
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Toe
Member
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Posts: 76


« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2007, 11:08:45 pm »

I just found out that the place I do tech support for is closing down.  Cool
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Lyn
Vectorian
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Posts: 650



« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2007, 12:39:08 am »

Very well put, Intelligent design is not science, the founding fathers of the USA wanted to get away from any established religion, most were not what today would be called Christians, because they did not believe in the divinity of Christ.  They were what would become unitarians.  I am not from the USA but similar fanatics have been trying to get intelligent design adopted in science classes in schools in the UK.  It has no place in science, maybe in a class on comparative religions (Wales has no established church, unlike our neighbour - England).  As for sex education, yes certainly you can teach that abstinence and monogamy are tools that can be used and are for a number of people an ideal that they would like to aspire to.  They should not be taught as the only way, there is an obligation to teach risk reduction and discuss how people want to lead their lives.  The state has no place in telling people what is an exceptable lifestyle.  In a country where we now have civil partnerships which are the gay equivalent of marriage you can't have schools promoting discrimination or the acceptability of discrimination.
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Vanger
Packager
Vectorite
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Posts: 118



WWW
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2007, 03:12:15 am »

First I got a computer at 6 years in 1993. It was my mother's Poisk-2 - a Soviet IBM PC clone with 286 processor. The only non-PC architecture, that was widely used in xUSSR was Spectrum, by the way.

Then math school, applied mathematics specialisation in university, optimisation methods faculty - you know, a common set.

Worked mostly as a sysadmin, used Slackware, then VL on my machines.
Now I'm working as a QA engineer at one IBM contractor. Made myself a birthday present - moved all my workflow to VL (though most of the testing is, obviously, in virtual machines). And, well, I'm happy).
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wcs
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 1144


« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2007, 03:25:29 am »

Quote
The only non-PC architecture, that was widely used in xUSSR was Spectrum, by the way.

Oh, memories.... I absolutely love Spectrum.
That's how I learned some BASIC programming! (Unfortunately, 20 years later, my programming skills are pretty much at the same level as they were then.  Undecided)

And no matter how many 3D games and nVidia cards show up, I still think Chuckie Egg is the best game ever designed.
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MikeCindi
Tester
Vectorian
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Posts: 1073


« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2007, 04:23:46 am »

GrannyGeek many things you about the US and its founding are correct but some are not (e.g. most of the founding fathers were not Deists). And I'm not sure what God you are referring to but if you are reading a "Christian" Bible then your interpretation of it is what is screwiness. Nowhere that I have read does the Bible say that God tortured his Son or "demanded" it unless perhaps you're referring to a concept of transmuting all the sin of the world on him as torture. Seems to me very clear that Romans and a few Jewish leaders at the time tortured him and God's "demand" is for justice. Thus God knew that we could not surivive the enactment of justice so He chose to become human and allow what happened to him to happen. As for all the bad things that others (such as Hitler, et al) have done well, did God stop you from doing the bad things you've done in your life. Just because the scale of injury is much greater people still get to choose what they do and there is a consequence to the choice. Besides all of that you yourself have implied that there is no room for God in your beliefs as have many others. When this society (USA) that reports a majority of being "Christian" tells God to stay out of their public life why would you be surprised if it happened? To say that God "let" all these things happen would not be accurate to say that he knew they would happen would be. Just like tomh38 when he wrote what he wrote and when the rest of us wrote what we wrote (to a lesser degree than an all-knowing God of course). Those challenges are all based on the way you think not on what is shown of God's character in the Bible.

To equate Christian principles with repressive society is FUD tactics. It has never happened. The "dark ages" church was no more "Christian" than you would seem to be although I appreciate from your other comments on this forum that you are probably more reasonable. But that is just my impression with what little I know about you.

I do agree that there is a lot that is unknown as will continue to be the case in our lifetime and to say that "we don't know" is wise. People say that in many different ways including attibuting it to God. It would seem that to phrase it that way would make them a lesser person in your estimation. To say that reason denies Christianity is true in some ways perhaps but I would submit that reason denies many things that most of us do and believe. If your going to apply reason so rigidly to Christians apply the same to others...well maybe don't go too far with that process because the world may stop. :-)

I didn't state my personal beliefs at any point (not that they aren't clear enough), just questioned what was written by tomh38. If those are "fightin' words" I suppose anytime you challenge someone's belief system you get into "fights". I'm not opposed to someone challenging me either.

metvas, well quoted.

Lyn, I would have to agree and disagree. Yes, they wanted to not have a state sponsored religion but they didn't want to do away with it or it's influence on public matters. Most of them did believe in the deity of Christ or they didn't believe what they wrote. True that govenment should allow people to make choice as far as lifestyle goes but that reasoning does not carry to extremes and only slightly past societal norms. Thus there are laws the limit our choices in many ways. Some we may agree with and some we may not but that does not make them right or wrong respectively.

Toe, I'm very sorry to hear that.

FWIW,
Mike
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 05:25:15 am by mikecindi » Logged

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no2thesame
Packager
Vectorite
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Posts: 136


« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2007, 05:57:25 am »

I'm a physiotherapist (of 29 years) working in residential aged care institutions (for the last 13years) in sunny Australia.  I was bitten by MS DOS 4 and haven't used Microsoft products since then by choice. (Sometimes I've been forced to use them by circumstance)

I have children and so not much money to spare on computing.

One quiet afternoon, in the late '90s, as I worked in my treatment room at the nursing home I heard a radio interview with someone from the local university and he mentioned Linux. I liked what I heard, especially the part about it being free. My operating system then (and I still have one P90 on it) was PCDOS 1991 edition from IBM (I know its only rebadged MS but I completely missed Windows, lucky me!)

Then in 1999 my eldest daughter insisted that we get on the internet for schoolwork. A friend gave me his cast-off P300 and I ordered SuSE 7.0  in the mail. It took me 2 weeks of my Christmas break to install (what a learning curve! I didn't know anyone who used it) and get on the web... but look at me now!

I still run old machines so Vector suits me fine.

By the way, seeing as this seems to have degenerated into that sort of place:
I believe in a six day creation and therefore intelligent design - which really bucks the Aussie trend - this is a very secular society where the dominant religions are, in descending order of popularity: Football, consumerism, drinking, surfing and a long way down the list, evolution.

I have no desire to force my beliefs on any school system - no school I ever went to had public prayer, or taught creation/intelligent design and I turned out ...well... I use Vector and Linux so something stuck.

I love you GrannyGeek! Keep Mike honest and keep asking the good questions, the answers are out there.
No2
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tomh38
Vectorian
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Posts: 913



« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2007, 06:19:41 am »

All right ... I didn't want to turn this into a religious flame war, but I suppose I'd better make a few points since some of my statements have been attacked, and others misinterpreted.

1.  If I were teaching in a Catholic school, I would gladly lead my students in prayer, and if they wanted to know my religious beliefs, I would tell them.  I would also tell them what the Catholic Church teaches about sex and marriage.  But I teach in a public school, paid for by taxes.  There's a non-establishment of religion clause in the First Amendment, and for me to endorse a particular religion (or to teach against any religion) would be a violation of the First Amendment.

2.  The Catholic Church does not require me to teach the Catholic faith in a public school.  So, as I interpret my Church's teaching, I can do so on my own time and on my own dime, but not in a government endorsed and funded institution.

3)  There is no scientific data (that is, hard observational data that can be replicated) to support Intelligent Design.  There is an enormous amount of scientific evidence to support the origin of species by natural selection; you could spend your entire life just glancing through it and barely scratch the surface.

4. The Catholic Church has rejected both Creationism and Intelligent design and endorsed the origin of species by natural selection, so I have no conflict of conscience on that regard.  In my classes we don't do much biology, but we do physics, and the current evidence for the age of the universe is that it's about 14.5 billion years old, not around 6,000 as the biblical literalists claim.  My Church also has no problem with this, so I have no conflict of conscience there either.

5.  I don't use the term "evolution" because it's unscientific.  It implies that organisms "evolve" over time into something better, and there's no scientific evidence for this.  There is ample scientific evidence for the origin of species by natural selection, so I speak about it in that way instead.

6.  In regards to sex education, I asked that it be included in my contract that I not be required to teach sex ed., as it might require me to teach something which would go against my conscience.  Human sexuality always involves morality of one kind or another, and so I've recused myself from that subject.  When the subject of sexual reproduction does come up in my classes, we deal in matters of biology.  One mammal's means of reproduction is pretty much the same as any other's so we can deal with it generally.  If a student ever asks me a question regarding human sexual morality, I'll refer him or her to a parent or other moral guide who is appropriate for that person.

7.  Many if not most of the founding fathers of the United States may have been practicing Christians, but the private writings of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin Franklin show that they were Enlightenment thinkers and deists.  Jefferson and Franklin certainly had grave doubts about the divinity of Jesus, which at the time would have put them outside of mainstream Christian belief.  For most churches, it still would.  I don't see how that's relevant to this discussion, since the First Amendment clearly states that "congress shall establish no church," which in practice means no public funds for religious proselytizing of any kind.

8.  I personally don't care what the religious beliefs of the majority of people in the US are.  I also don't care that there are Christians, Jews, Atheists, and one Muslim in my classes.  Their religious beliefs, and the religious beliefs of the majority of people in the US, are outside the scope of the philosophy of science, just as they are outside the scope of geometry, literature, geography, music, and so on.  If people want to send their children to a religious school, they are free to do so.  If they cannot afford to do so, they can home school their children.

9.  I usually avoid discussions of the meaning of the Bible on the Internet, since so few people know much about the Bible.  Very few people I know have enough knowledge of Hebrew, Greek, ancient near-eastern archeology, literary criticism, paleography, anthropology, sociology, psychology, et al. to have an informed opinion about the Bible.  Most people who argue about the Bible are familiar with one translation in their native language which they tend to interpret literally.  Many of the conclusions they draw are too flawed to even be wrong.  So I won't argue about the Bible unless someone in here is familiar with all the subjects I listed above, and is willing to quote in one of the original languages (Hebrew or Greek).  If somebody quotes me the Bible from some translation, I'll ignore the post.

Look, everybody, I know this is the Lounge, but I'd much rather talk about Linux in here than religion.  If you all want to argue religion, that's fine, but in all likelihood this is my last post in this thread, even if somebody attacks me or my views.  Also, I'm really not in the mood for an email discussion about religious matters, so please don't send a private message to my gmail account regarding the matters in this thread.
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
metvas
Vectorite
***
Posts: 311


« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2007, 07:02:25 am »

Quote
I tell them that's not relevant to the subject matter we're studying, and if someone else has a question which is relevant, please ask
Let's move on folks.
Thanks
regards
Darrell
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Be the change you want to see in the World
tomh38
Vectorian
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Posts: 913



« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2007, 07:07:51 am »

Darrell,

Agreed.

I'd like to hear more about what people do for a living.  For example, who's a professional software developer, if anyone?  Does we have any military folks in here?  Does anybody work in a business where Linux is deployed on a large scale.  You get the idea.

Tom
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
MikeCindi
Tester
Vectorian
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Posts: 1073


« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2007, 07:08:09 am »

Look, everybody, I know this is the Lounge, but I'd much rather talk about Linux in here than religion.

Me too.

Again, well quoted metvas. I will "move on."
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The plans of the diligent lead to profit...Pro. 21:5
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M0E-lnx
Administrator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 3180



« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2007, 07:24:30 am »

Goddang vanger, it's been a long time...
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exeterdad
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2046



« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2007, 07:26:58 am »

Religion and politics are two subjects I refuse to debate over.  Firstly, I don't have the facts or the in depth knowledge to debate about how my heart feels. Secondly, no one else has facts or the in depth knowledge to change how my heart feels.  Everyone that's posted about their views has brought up things that I can certainly agree with.

But on a lighter note...  This thread in my opinion has been very interesting.  I was just interested in finding some common denominators about Linux users.  But now when I read everyones posts in other parts of the board, I can associate them with something other than a simple text user name.

I'm surprised with everyones responses so far. A very diverse crowd.  Though it does seem that higher education and Linux go hand in hand for the most part.

I suppose I'd better get a degree in something so I can blend in a bit.  lol  Unfortunately my Army college fund has long expired.  I (foolishly) didn't think I was capable of being a good student and support myself at the same time.
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Vanger
Packager
Vectorite
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Posts: 118



WWW
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2007, 07:30:50 am »

Goddang vanger, it's been a long time...
I'm a pulsar, you know? Showing, hiding, showing again, hiding again Wink .
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tomh38
Vectorian
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Posts: 913



« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2007, 07:38:56 am »

M0E-lnx,

Does your avatar represent what you really look like?  Are you really some kind of futuristic cyborg dude?  If so, I'd really like to know what you do for a living.  By the way, I am a biohazard (flatulence).  Grin

exeterdad,

You're right about it being a diverse crowd.  Regarding higher education ... it all depends on how learn best.  I spent five years in school after college, but most of what I've learned has been from what I've read on my own.  I always did well in school, but mostly because of reading, not lectures.  On the other hand, if you do well in the structured university environment (and very many people do) then a higher degree might be for you.

On the third hand ... heh ... if you're only worried about blending in, don't bother.  From what I've read that you've written in these forums, you're just as bright and knowledgeable as anybody in here, so you blend in fine.

Just my two cents.

Tom
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
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