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Author Topic: The NEW VLInstaller under development...  (Read 30258 times)
saulgoode
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Posts: 340



« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2006, 10:58:30 am »

This focus can be moved by the Tab Key, to accomodate keyboard users, right? We should keep that.

That is a good point about tabbing to the different options along the top. I concede that the outlining is not necessarily inappropriate. Perhaps I was wrong in thinking that highlighting is presently being employed to indicate the active window and that the installer's behavior would be to highlight the next "ungrayed" button if TAB was pressed. The question arises, then: if the user is on The Choice page (as an example) and TABs so that the "Tools" button is highlighted, then how does he know that it is not the "Tools" page that is currently being displayed.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2006, 11:00:14 am by saulgoode » Logged

A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
Joe1962
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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2006, 12:00:13 pm »

Nice feedback saulgoode, nightflier! Keep it coming. Here's a few thoughts on it:

I am somewhat confused by the buttons across the top of all of the windows ("Welcome!", "The Choice", "Partitions", etc). I imagine much of their functionality is dictated by Gambas but they seem to violate some of the principles of user interface design. In particular, the outlining of the button for the currently active window. A button is outlined to signify that it is the Default action to be taken if RETURN is pressed, not to indicate the current "tab" in a set of windows. Since the result of clicking on the outlined button in the current setup would be to redisplay the same screen (presumably), it is therefore effectively just a Cancel operation. If the Default operation of a screen is Cancel, all of the HIGs with which I am familiar recommend that no button be outlined.
You're right about that. I actually started with a tabbed interface, but there was no way to disable tabs selectively. I'll think about this and look for alternatives to show which top-row function is currently active.

The Welcome

This looks great and seems very intuitive. My only criticism is the above mentioned issue with the outlined "Welcome!" button. For this screen, it would seem safe to make the "Start" button the Default action and therefore it should be outlined.
Agree. That "Start" button is my most recent addition and makes the "Welcome" screen much more intuitive than before, when you had to click on an enabled "The Choice" button.

The Choice

Almost perfect aside from the Default action. In this case, I would propose there be no Default action as all three of the options are equally valid.
Agree.

Partitions Tool

I personally dislike the "You have been WARNED!" attached to the "Full disk" blurb. It is unnecessary, seems patronizing, and serves as something of a distraction -- the user has just been presented with the suggestion that having multiple disks affects his decision and should be permitted a chance to absorb that concept.
Wasn't my idea and all the texts are subject to change. Can't really make my mind up if I'm for or against it though...

I am presuming that the buttons "GParted", "cfdisk", and "Preset strategies" will fork the process off to another window where those specifications are made. If this is the case then those buttons should have ellipses after the text to indicate this ("GParted...", "cfdisk...", and "Preset strategies..."). I realize that ellipses detract from the "beauty" of the interface but they are something of a standard "hint" for buttons which bring up a dialog for further input.
I came up with a way to embed gparted and cfdisk inside the installer Main window, so it looks like part of it. I didn't want another window popping up on top. I think there are screenshots of this among the original ones on my webpage.

Personally, I think that any external utilities should be hidden from the user (except for "Advanced" installs) and "wrapper" user interfaces consistent with the rest of the GUI install written. I realize that this is extra work but I felt it should be mentioned as the ideal.
Agree. See previous quote.

Packages

Looks good aside from the previously mentioned issues of specifying (or not) a Default action and adding ellipses (in this case, to the "By groups" and "Manual" buttons).
I'll check on this during the overhaul of the button focus matter.

Configure

This window looks good. My only concern would be about "Other configurations": to be symmetrical with "Boot manager", there should be a grouping of buttons for "Config 1", another grouping for "Config 2", et cetera (unless I am misinterpreting those other configurations).
Config 1 and 2 are just placeholders for as yet unthought of configurations...  Grin  They will change to something real or go away altogether.

Go for it!

For this window, I assume the install is already in progress and the message "Ready to install" should be updated to say "Installation in progress" or somesuch. If the screen capture is actually showing the program waiting for user input (i.e., actually "ready to install") then there should be a 'proceed' button (or somesuch) underneath the "Ready to install" label.
I haven't even really began work this screen... Grin This is just a first "sketch" on how it might look.

Tools

Looks good. Even the lack of ellipses could be justified as they might lead to confusion. I would only restate my distaste for the "You have been WARNED!" admonition.
See related reply above.

I don't mean to sound overly negative; I actually think it is a phenomenally good interface design. I also imagine I have misinterpreted what is being presented in some cases and that in others, your designs are so preliminary as to have not yet address some of the aspects I mentioned.
Do't worry about sounding negative and keep the feedback coming. This is actually helping to rekindle my interest on hacking away on the installer, which I'd sort of put on the backburner because of other development tasks. You are correct on "preliminary...  Grin

My main point of contention would be the outlining of the header buttons along the top. Hopefully there will be some other way provided by Gambas to signify the "active page"; outlining of a button is already taken. (I don't think a "tabbed" approach would be desirable here, either. Tabs tend to place things on an equal footing whereas your buttons have a "sequence" associated with them.)
See related replies above.

I would think that outlining the buttons are, as saulgoode says, significying the "focus" of the Return Key (and/or Space Bar). This focus can be moved by the Tab Key, to accomodate keyboard users, right? We should keep that.
Food for thought, haven't done any work towards allowing keyboard navigation, as it's better done after the interface is stable, but will keep it in mind.

If there is a way of applying a 3D "depressed" look to the active button it would be ideal.
As mentioned, I'll look into other ways to handle the button focus problem.

Will the user be able to jump back and forth at will using the buttons to change their choices before committing?
That's the idea, but how far that is possible will depend on the choices made along the way.

"Go for it": I agree that needs an action button on the right side, maybe one which changes to "Cancel" after pressing it.
As stated above, I haven't even really began work this screen...  Grin
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2006, 05:42:37 pm »

here's the latest partition selection screen.

There shouldn't be a space around the hyphens. It should be
left-click
not left - click

right-click
not right - click

As for "You have been WARNED!"--
I do think there needs to be a strong and explicit warning, but that's already there in the preceding sentence. I have read too many messages on other venues from people who inadvertently wiped out their Windows to think a mild warning is enough. It's hard to imagine that people could be so careless, but we have the evidence all around us. Maybe we could work on the wording.
--GrannyGeek
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Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
Joe1962
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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2006, 01:11:00 pm »

Thanks Granny! Keep the proof-reading coming...
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
saulgoode
Vectorite
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Posts: 340



« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2006, 08:06:27 pm »

"Go for it": I agree that needs an action button on the right side, maybe one which changes to "Cancel" after pressing it.

My preference is to not have buttons change actions after the dialog is initially drawn. I don't know that it is frowned upon unanimously (I couldn't find a mention in the GNOME HIG document) but I think the majority of UI people discourage it.

On a (lighter) side note, I found the Interface Hall of Shame to be entertaining and somewhat educational.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 08:08:43 pm by saulgoode » Logged

A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
Joe1962
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Vectorian
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2006, 03:24:48 pm »

Well, I've locked voting on the colour thread and un-stickied it. And the winner is: Blue #2, with over twice the number of votes as the second place!

2- Gambas hex:&H257CD2&; RGB = 37:124:210; HSV = 210:210:210

Thanks to all who voted over there. As you probably know, development had to be shelved due to the workload from 5.8, I hope to get back on track after final is released.
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
paul
Member
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Posts: 2


« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2007, 09:57:50 pm »

looks great, how do you like working with gambus.  Always wanted to try it but seemed like
a lot of packages to install to get it working

paul
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Joe1962
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2499



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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2007, 10:13:10 pm »

Gambas is way cool! And in VL it's only a single package. We have Gambas 1.0.17 and Gambas2 1.9.47.

BTW, I just retook the interrupted work on the installer. I'm doing a lot of code cleanup before putting it up as a Google Code Project.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 10:15:17 pm by Joe1962 » Logged

O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2160



« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2007, 11:31:13 am »

I've been reading up on Qt styles and it doesn't seem to be possible to use any "KDE'd" themes like Plastik for Qt app theming unless there is a significant portion of KDE present. And its also not easy to make any custom themes because these have to be binary (/usr/lib/qt/plugins/styles).

Although the old-school Motif style of Qt has its charm, it looks a bit pre-year-2000 to use on the installer (or not, dunno)...

I found this site:

http://static.int.pl/~mig21/dev/releases/polymer/#installation

which hosts the "Polymer" style, a Plastik clone for "bare" Qt and can be used without the need for any KDE libraries  Smiley
Just tested it on VL5.8 Standard and it works great.

Not sure if this information is of any use if you have already found out about it, but can't harm  Wink
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 11:32:44 am by easuter » Logged

Joe1962
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« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2007, 01:35:06 pm »

That's great news, easuter! JohnB316 and I had googled this extensively some time back with no results.
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
ekp
Member
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Posts: 55


« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2007, 09:34:30 am »

I hope I an not a contrarian but after using a ton of distros and there related installers I found the non-gui installer a welcome change.  Maybe an option at point of install to use either?
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Joe1962
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Vectorian
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2007, 09:42:39 am »

Maybe an option at point of install to use either?
That was always the idea.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 09:45:12 am by Joe1962 » Logged

O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
DrCR
Vectorite
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Posts: 166


« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2007, 08:27:38 pm »

Yeah, I actually like the nongui installer of Vector. A nice VL gui installer could potentially convert me though. Smiley

Not sure if this is the proper place for it, but there were a couple of things I missed in the 5.8 SOHO installer:
- Installer lacking /boot partition option
- Installer lacking option to not install a bootloader (IIRC. I only recall choices for lilo and grub, no skip option. grubconfig also missed in 5.8SOHO)

Any eta on 6.0? When it's done I'm sure. Grin I'm such an impatient guy, have yet to config 5.8SOHO to my personal spec. 5.1.1SOHO is just working too good for me lol. Smiley
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Joe1962
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2499



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« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2007, 04:58:08 pm »

I finally fixed the issue that prevented the installer source from working in Gambas2 1.9.49. The source code is now on svn at:
http://code.google.com/p/vinstall-ng/

At this point, it is mostly a framework for implementing the functionality, though the fdisk parser is working well (even in non-English locales), as is the partition type code and disk/partition selection screens.

So, fellow Gambasians, go have a look... Wink


EDIT: BTW, hope you like the new name... Grin
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2160



« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2007, 10:22:39 pm »

Woohoo!!  Grin

Glad to hear that Gambas problem is fixed...it was stuck for months!
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