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Author Topic: Big Computer Adventure Tomorrow  (Read 11878 times)
exeterdad
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« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2007, 09:43:38 am »

caitlyn

You were so kind not to hand me my *insert body-part-of-choice-here* on a platter. 
Quote
Basically if you make assumptions about what women can do, should do, or are likely to do based on cultural stereotypes you are pretty much being sexist even if that never was your intention.

Please understand that I do not assume a woman is incapable. I just haven't had a opportunity to meet one in person.

Quote
Heck, IME probably the majority of those (both men and women) who say sexist things or act in a sexist manner are often unaware that they're doing it.  They certainly didn't mean any harm.

Guilty as charged.  I didn't mean to.  It just came out wrong.  I apologize.
I have praise after praise for you and the rest of the ladies that are computer savy, but I fear wording things incorrectly and unintentionally digging myself a deeper hole than I already have.
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Vxt
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« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2007, 10:53:28 am »

Adventures - vs   Wink  tripping

Buying may  be less expensive than building_
the user cannot duplicate component  costs compared to the supplier
Profit margins now are very slim

(But) In practice if better components wanted - it is like vehicles on a dealer's lot
 > they tend to be "loaded" with uneeded accessories !

As to mastering own ! ~  IF a Distro  has all the features you want - why indeed remaster (VL anyone)

OTOH that seems seldom to happen - Esp as experience has been hard won
We want   Lips sealed  specific Apps/utilities & nothing extra

In that case the alternatives are to strip &  customize an existing variant_
or master own

Not as simple if wished to run from RAM -but templates now exist from more than one distribution

LiveCDs
INSERT & Puppy spring readily to mind (< latter can run in much less RAM than prior versions mentioned)

The best method is subjective,  depends on just how much customisation is  desired & the  will  to accomplish

Next, building in a CLEAN environment
Recommended > LFS/T2/Lunar/Gentoo - IOW a sources based development box
Building only the desired binaries to be mastered

Lastly,  debugging using one of trace utilities and event trackers
ESP for the :

LINKER

Also see FUSER

WRAPPING it up

After de-bugging -all may be fine & meet own needs
Yet not work correctly or as expected on different iron

Benchmarks are applicable only  to specific hardware & user tasking

Much focus is incorrectly assumed Re Real-Time  mode
Few realize it is highest kernel priority & mutually incompatible to (desktop use).......
 elegant sharing of CPU time slices in transparent manner

The latency of new kernel queuing schedulers  MAY prove beneficial >
but again, (Esp if "nice" not used) all depends on hardware & tasking
In this case - more importantly the user's wish for priority  to tasks contemplated !

Reiterated < benchmarks are nothing more/less than results on specific hardware & tasks it ran
Seldom are same conclusions verifed if used on NON-similar  iron in different environment

The other inappropriate asides are profiling <> non-intent aside it invariably is misconstrued
(As one who has  Embarrassed steppedintit ~ I contend, the least said, the better
 
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caitlyn
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« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2007, 11:08:25 am »

If I were trying to create a new distro I agree working with something like Linux From Scratch and designing from the ground up would be ideal.  I haven't got that kind of time to invest nor do I want to create a new distro.  There are over 500 active Linux distros already and the last thing the Linux community needs is another half baked distro from me. 

The point for me, I think, is to better support green computing (i.e.: Nano-ITX and flash technology) and to better support legacy hardware.  Even VL 5.8 Std has a very large footprint now.  My old Toshiba Libretto SS1010 (233MHz Pentium MMX, 96MB RAM, ultra slim 6.4mm 2.1 GB HDD) has the horsepower to run VL 5.8 with lighter apps (Gnumeric, AbiWord, Firefox, Opera, Dillo, GIMP, Claws Mail, Bluefish, etc...), particularly if I stick with a lightweight window manager.  The hard drive isn't easily upgraded (only Flash devices will fit in 6.4mm nowadays and they are no bigger than 4GB) and the footprint of 5.8 forced me to do some stripping down to shoehorn it onto the system.  The end result works very well indeed.

There is also something inherently cool about a pocket sized (8cm) distro that can get the job down on just about any hardware.

AliXe and Wolvix-Cub pretty much meet all my criteria already except the <210MB iso size needed for the 8cm CD-R.  Slax fits on an mini-CDR but needs more than 512MB to cache into RAM.  Remastering any of these just a tiny bit would meet my criteria easily.  No need for a new distro.

The thing is, I like VL best and I am already a volunteer packager for this distro.  I'm getting to know my way around VL pretty darned well.  The idea of getting VL to work within my critera is appealing to me personally.  Based on what I see in the forum I'm not the only one who would appreciate it.  I may try it if it doesn't prove to be too much work.  However, the end result would most definitely still be Vector Linux 5.8.x and work with existing repositories.  It may not be as optimized as something built from scratch but I really don't see the point in reinventing the wheel.  VL may not be perfect but it's an excellent distro that can probably suit all my needs with a little tweaking as my Libretto installation proves.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 12:56:02 pm by caitlyn » Logged

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CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
Vxt
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2007, 12:00:04 pm »

Object dump: Conceptions & AXEceptions:
 
Philosphy vs practicalities ~ are oft more observed in the absence:
Quote
As to mastering own ! ~  IF a Distro  has all the features you want - why indeed remaster (VL anyone)

JFFS2  filesystem - sounds good - warrants  examination

BIBLIO:  Theoretically, Flash drives seem on surface more  responsive/efficient for swap &/or O_System deployments:
> no moving parts/size/mobility  is a big plus
Size: have often noted  16 GIG advertised (the bigger may exceed H/Dr co$t)

In practice, seAms more is dependent on F/Sys Algos/OEM's (inflated) Advrb'd  MTBF of writes.

If the shoe fits -and no pinching or wiggling end-runs promulgated......

The only reasons left-leaning >  may be more relegated to academia redundancy
CON -versely - BIO genetic diversity is natures' way of ensuring evolution of all species !

Irregardless of credentials - who would have temerity of espousing any may ever master all desired ?

My PPM (  Angry   personal_pesky_mirror) sayez ~  Yeah sure dummy -  heard this all B4
Then to echos of the bird - is heard
"That 'gonna_do_SUM_day list ...........
grows  fester than the Bkmrks" !

     
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 12:07:41 pm by Vxt » Logged
GrannyGeek
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2007, 07:08:14 pm »

Progress report:

I spent almost two days backing up the computer, so today is the first day I actually got started with the hardware. The backing up included a good bit of housekeeping first, plus synching my music collection among three computers, and given that on this computer I have a 100-gig SATA drive and a 500-gig PATA drive, there is a LOT to back up (onto external hard drives).

I've quit for the day and right now the motherboard, bare of everything but the old CPU and heatsink fan, is sitting on a large antistatic bag on our kitchen table. I wouldn't even attempt to do this job with the motherboard in the computer because there's too much risk of damaging something with the large amount of force needed to install the HSF and there is also not enough room to work. So basically I've had to disassemble the whole thing.  Sad

I took lots of digital photos of the inside of the case and I have every cable and connection labeled as to where it goes. I have learned that you may *think* you'll remember what goes where, but you won't.<g> At least, *I* won't. So I label everything, make notes, take photos. There is no motherboard manual, so if I forget, I'm basically toast. It's an HP-proprietary ASUS motherboard and I did find the retail ASUS board on which it's based and I downloaded the manual for the retail board. It helps a bit, but there are a lot of HP customizations and crippling of the retail model.

I needed GrampaGeek's help with some screw removal. *ALL 8* screws that secure the motherboard to the case were so tight that I couln't make them budge. My skills with a screwdriver are quite limited and I was afraid that the screwdriver would slip and damage the motherboard. Grampa handled the screws just fine. I had to move two hard drives out of the way in order to reach the main ATX power connector and to move the motherboard away from the backplate so I could lift it out of the case.

Tomorrow the fun begins as we tackle the HSF.

We lost a couple of hours as we had to take one of our cats to the vet. She had six teeth pulled three weeks ago (three of them were complicated extractions) and the past couple of days she seems lethargic and isn't eating much. There was nothing obvious on examination, but she also had a blood test that should show if her kidneys, etc., are failing. The cat is 14 or 15 years old. Our other cat is 17 and the dog is 14. A real Old Folks Home here! Anyway, we've spent almost $800 on this cat in the past three weeks. I could have bought a 24" widescreen monitor and had plenty of money left over! Oh well--she's a splendid cat, very sociable and funny and loving.

I'll let you know if we succeed in getting the new processor in and the HSF installed without wrecking something.
--GrannyGeek
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GrannyGeek
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« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2007, 07:17:44 pm »

I still hard to believe that a granny loves computer more than the grandpa  Wink
So what is the love of the grandpa ?

I don't think how much you love a computer depends on your gender. Most of the men I know are not interested at all in computer hardware. Neither are most of the women.

Grampa loves gardening, working around the yard (ours and my mother's), puttering around the house, reading, watching some TV, being pals with the dog and cats, and lots of other stuff.
--GrannyGeek
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GrannyGeek
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« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2007, 07:24:00 pm »

I'd also add the RAM before putting the Mother Board back in the case, sometimes the board flexes when on the stand offs in the case, and that can cause damage... also its usually far easier when the board is out to do these things, more room!  One of my pet hates in building machines is poorly labeled mother boards, especially for front panel connectors!

I planned to remove the motherboard if I had to, and I did. There's just not enough room to work with the motherboard in the case, and the force required to attach the HSF might risk flexing the board if it's not on a flat surface.

I labeled all the cables and connectors as I unplugged them. Also how they were oriented. That way I can get things back the way they're supposed to be.

I basically had to take the whole thing apart in order to get the motherboard out.
--GrannyGeek
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exeterdad
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« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2007, 07:33:46 pm »

Your a very smart cookie (and cautious too).  I have faith in ya!  Wink
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GrannyGeek
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« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2007, 07:47:11 pm »

I'm intrigued that GrannyGeek does all the "geeky" things that she does.  I don't know if she is a older Grandma, or if she is closer to my age. 

I'm 65. Does that mean I'm an "older Grandma"? My husband will be 70 in three weeks. "70" starts to sound old.<g>

Everything I've learned about computers was out of necessity. We got our first computer 20 years ago. Doing any kind of upgrade cost too much if you had to pay someone to do it for you. So we learned. I was the theoretician and Grampa was the drone--doing the tool work under my direction. He doesn't know anything about computers and doesn't want to know. So I was the one who had to find out what we needed to do and then he'd do what I told him. After we did some hard drives, CD-ROM drives, more memory, and such, we hit the big time when we decided to get a new motherboard for our computer. Now THAT was scary!

I started doing hardware on my own when I wanted to do something *right now* and Grampa wasn't home. So I got the screwdrivers and what do you know--I installed whatever it was just fine on my own. Ever since, I do the work myself unless there is something that requires more tool skill than I have (I'm a tool klutz) or more strength than I have. We built one computer as a team and I've built two or three on my own.

People are intimidated by computer hardware, but really, it's just stuff plugged into other stuff. I think the inside of a computer is quite beautiful in its own way. It's amazing that a machine that can do such complicated things is pretty simple inside. It's not like fixing an automobile or a washing machine.
--GrannyGeek
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The Headacher
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2007, 01:38:12 am »

Quote
we've spent almost $800 on this cat in the past three weeks. I could have bought a 24" widescreen monitor and had plenty of money left over! Oh well--she's a splendid cat, very sociable and funny and loving.
That's serious money for a cat... I mean I would of course pay it as well if my cat was sick, but... darn that's a lot of money.. I've noticed that vets charge probably just as much as "people doctors". When I had to put my previous cat to sleep, they charged some 95 Euro's IIRC. It was only 5 minutes of work (well, less, all they had to do was give an injection and wait).

Quote
People are intimidated by computer hardware, but really, it's just stuff plugged into other stuff. I think the inside of a computer is quite beautiful in its own way. It's amazing that a machine that can do such complicated things is pretty simple inside. It's not like fixing an automobile or a washing machine.
Replacing computer hardware usually isn't too hard.
 A car is just stuff attached to other stuff Wink. Modern cars are fixed in pretty much the same way as computers ( don't know about washing machines). If there's a problem with one of the headlights, they don't fix it, they take the entire unit out and replace it with a new one. Just like you don't fix a broken video card, you replace it. That being said, if I could fix computer hardware I would.
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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
Vxt
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« Reply #25 on: August 18, 2007, 03:24:35 am »

Very good plan of attack Granny, Esp.  the pictures  & labelling
Sorry about your cat,  hope all ends well

Some vets  Angry gouge !
When my cat became alarmingly weak , could hardly crawl to it's water,
wouldn't eat (happened very fast 1-2 days)
I rushed him to one posh looking clinic
The young woman poked & proded then recommended several "tests"
 and would not give any opinions

I was suspicious, thanked her & paid the bill- 5 minutes, $55.00
 I thought a (very renowned) Vet further away might be too busy
But drove there next.

He felt it's stomache, (cancer)  said yes time to put him to sleep !
As he was in pain (NO noise)

It was heartbreaking,  even hurts deeply now years later.
He seemed almost as sorry as us,  gave a few minutes to say goodbye
before administering the shot & assured us it was painless, immediate
The cost,  FREE  > & I KNOW he left other duties when his assistant notified

I admired that man more than ever (DANG -  wish had never recalled)

Vehicles now have an onboard diagnostics to plug into
Same computer controls all  sensors for fuel injection, ignition timing - emissions
 
But major component repairs don't happen by themselves, nor can most be found that way
A burnt-out headlight is simple - Electical- circuitry,  try to trace  -  Esp if in solid state dashboards
 How about changing the signal switch or ignition keying

The back-yard grease-monkey has NO idea how to trouble-shoot nor have tools & savvy.

Same goes for computers - parts are swapped
How many here have the miniature electronic probes or AVR's etc to trace DC volts
imposed on AC circuits
OR have all the needed OEMs schematics, & power sources to feed
The huge Mfgrs manuals of cross-over parts, electric values of each

 BIG difference to swapping parts randomly & knowing which/why as a certainty

TV's are simplistic in comparison
As for fridges - are any familiar to testing closed-loop compressor systems
or the timers for defrosters ?
Hint - think air conditioners

(Washing machines  Kiss ARE simple,  the cycles are controlled either by older mechanical timers or
new solid state (NON repairable modules)

All is AC house voltage - NO condensers retaining lethal charges for days
BTW don't poke around inside  PSUs - unless you know what you are doing

That  Wink "kick" you may get will not be of the fun type
So much for theories ?   
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2007, 09:41:50 am »

Quote
Grampa loves gardening

My own Grampa used to love gardening. When he passed the way a lot of plants were around and I took some for myself. I found a very nice hobby. I am still learning, but is really nice. My friends -we are all around 30 years old- are looking around and they discovered some new stuff to do too.

Looks like you are in control Granny, nice job. Positive thoughts to your pets too  Smiley. I hope she is strength  like one I had when I was a kid. I was studying English and I named "Gray". She went to play outside through my window. I used to live in a 4 floor  Roll Eyes. She just hurt in one leg, a little.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2007, 09:47:15 am by rbistolfi » Logged

"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
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gamfa
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« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2007, 12:03:09 pm »

Quote
We lost a couple of hours as we had to take one of our cats to the vet. She had six teeth pulled three weeks ago (three of them were complicated extractions) and the past couple of days she seems lethargic and isn't eating much. There was nothing obvious on examination, but she also had a blood test that should show if her kidneys, etc., are failing. The cat is 14 or 15 years old. Our other cat is 17 and the dog is 14. A real Old Folks Home here! Anyway, we've spent almost $800 on this cat in the past three weeks. I could have bought a 24" widescreen monitor and had plenty of money left over! Oh well--she's a splendid cat, very sociable and funny and loving.

Quote
That's serious money for a cat... I mean I would of course pay it as well if my cat was sick, but... darn that's a lot of money.. I've noticed that vets charge probably just as much as "people doctors".


"If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat."

Samuel Clemens....c. 1894

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GrannyGeek
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« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2007, 06:42:35 pm »

SUCCESS!!!!!

The new dual-core CPU is in place and working, is seen correctly in BIOS, and Windows XP is using both cores as it should. Tomorrow I'll see what Linux thinks of it.

Dealing with the HSF was considerably easier than I thought it would be. I spent quite a bit of time removing the old thermal grease from the old Sempron CPU and the heat sink. Then I applied the Arctic Silver following the directions on Arctic Silver's Web site.

So...
on to the next project!
--GrannyGeek
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Joe1962
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« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2007, 07:47:33 pm »

Way to go Granny!    Grin
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