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Author Topic: VectorLinux WIKI  (Read 32327 times)
InTheWoods
Vectorite
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Posts: 302


« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2007, 07:49:27 pm »

Finally!!!

For quite a while Vector's home page had a link to a wiki that didn't exist. A month or so ago even that dissappeared. I just tried the wiki and added a how to. I hope I didn't jump in before I was supposed to.

I copied Xeon's author code and I'm wondering should we have some standardized style? Or is the wiki markup sufficient? Perhaps since everything in a wiki is a how to it should be divided up into major sections to mirror the forum:

F.A.Q.s
DOCs
Then every section from "The nuts and bolts"

Eauster's networking how to would go to "Networking and Security" Hanumizzle's kernel compilation guide to "Kernel" etc.

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Toe
Member
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Posts: 76


« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2007, 08:45:56 pm »

OK, here's some questions to start off with.

1.  How broad should the scope of this wiki be? 

Being a wiki, it's really gonna go whatever way people make it go.  But the initial structure given to it can go a long way toward determining its course. 

I think it's safe to say that this wiki won't document all things Linux.  But do we only want to document Vector-specific things like VASM, or something broader like the Slackware Handbook?  To start off with, I would suggest sticking with the Vector-only stuff, but build up a good link library for how-tos and general Linux docs.

2.  What's the editing policy?

Is it gonna go full anonymous editing access, or require registration?  On the wiki I admin, the home page is locked so that only the admin can edit it, but all other pages allow anonymous editing.

3.  What should the home page contain?

On my wiki, there's 3 main elements to the home page: a bit of intro text for the wiki itself describing its purpose & rules, a screenshot of the software in question (could be a logo instead), and a table of contents.  The table of contents is not a full index of every page in the wiki, rather, it's a set of 6 links in a table that go to topical categories for the rest of the site.  Some possible categories: How-to docs, Troubleshooting, About Vector Linux and this wiki, or External Information Resources.  What categories should be made goes back to the question on scope - the categories you pick will play a big role in determining the direction the wiki takes.  You may not want every category under the sun.


Now for some DokuWiki-specific stuff...

DokuWiki has quite a few plugins available for it, and you'll probably want to install at least a couple.

The old wiki had problems with defacement, so this should be planned for ASAP.  DokuWiki does have some good plugins to help combat this.  The first one I would consider is the Bad Behavior plugin, which basically analyzes a few things about the agent connecting to the site and determines if they're probably a spambot or not.  There's also the Akismet plugin, which sends a copy of the page to a remote server for spam analysis.  Personally, I'm not big on the sending to someone else's server part, though.  Then there's a plugin that implements everybody's favorite web annoyance, a CAPTCHA.

Since there's already a forum here, you might consider adding the BBCode plugin, so that users can use either standard wiki markup, or the BBCode syntax that's used on forums like this.

Someone mentioned putting in a sandbox for the wiki earlier in the thread.  That's actually built into DokuWiki, it's called the Playground.  There's also a page documenting wiki syntax.  (If you install the BBCode plugin, that's automatically added to the markup documentation page.)  Both of these are linked on the edit page screen, but it wouldn't hurt to have another link to them elsewhere.

One little thing that I'm surprised isn't built into DokuWiki is a page redirector.  I would definitely consider installing that one.

By the way, I notice you don't have nice URLs turned on.  I'd activate that.  (Let me know if you need help.)

DokuWiki supports namespaces, but personally I think it's easier to just use a few good category index pages rather than trying to make everyone use the right namespace.  One thing you might consider using it for, though, is translations.  Basically, you would use something like 'vasm' as the page name for the VASM's documentation in English, and 'es:vasm' for the Spanish version.  If people putting things in the wrong namespace becomes a problem, you'll probably want to install the page move plugin.

Sooner or later I assume you're going to want to do some theme work for the wiki.  DokuWiki's theme system is pretty simplistic, just a header, footer, and a couple CSS files.  If it seems like a lot of work, you're probably going about it the wrong way. Wink

If down the road you want to extend the scope a bit, it's feasible that you could use DokuWiki for the home page of vectorlinux.com or something.  I'd suggest taking a look over the list of plugins and discussing anything interesting in this thread.
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Xeon
Vectorite
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Posts: 115


« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2007, 11:16:17 pm »

About the scope: I am definitely in for a vector only start. I think this would already use a lot of initial startup work (been some work already Smiley)
Editing policy: Personally I am for registered users only. I never liked the idea of having full access to anyone that wiki's have, but it might be paranoia.
As for the starter page, I think it's what I already have been doing. But since there are so far only how to's, There is only the How To section  Tongue. Faq's and docs coming. For now I make all how to's in namespace howtos, if this is becoming a load I might make subcategory's (however, how would they look?), the page move plugin might be interesting for that

Plugins: Definitely looking good! Especially the anti defacement onces.
Only: I am anti BB code on this one. The wiki syntax is not that hard, and some markup's require HTML (the by User for example). I am also gonna write a How to make a wiki howto page with my used markup soon.
I tried installing some of your suggestion, but automatic downloading didn't seem to work... I'll need vecs assistance for manual installing.

Theme: I think the theme is nice for now: but one remark. The currently layout leaves a lot of space unused. The how to's look endless because the lines are very small. Is it possible this gets fixed? If you don't have time vec, mail me the theme and I'll mess with it at home until its a bit larger.

Sandbox: I'll state again that I heavily dislike having a place like the playground on the end wiki. It will always appear in the index, and people that just browse the wiki will end in the markup testing.
http://turkey.fvdh.net/wiki
complete sandbox  Grin

edit: and tbh I am happy I fixed the wiki :s, I completely screwed it with those nice urls
« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 12:05:40 am by Xeon » Logged
Toe
Member
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Posts: 76


« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2007, 12:47:48 am »

Theme: I think the theme is nice for now: but one remark. The currently layout leaves a lot of space unused. The how to's look endless because the lines are very small. Is it possible this gets fixed? If you don't have time vec, mail me the theme and I'll mess with it at home until its a bit larger.
Eh, the current theme is a pretty generic Kubrick clone.  (Kubrick is the standard theme for WordPress.)  But yeah, I would agree that there's a lot of wasted space here.  First question is do you want a fixed-width layout (always the same width no matter what resolution it's viewed at) or fluid (expands with the width of the screen)?  The other problem is that the menu bar on the side takes up a lot of the width.  There's three ways of solving it.  One, you could try making it horizontal across the top/bottom instead of on the side.  That would work for the basic navigation, but would be infeasible for the table of contents boxes.  Two, you could make the sidebar a float, so that the other contents of the page will wrap around the bottom of it instead of just leaving a blank white area.  Or three, you could move it outside the main white column so that the page's content has the whole main column to itself.  Might look a little funny, though.
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Xeon
Vectorite
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Posts: 115


« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2007, 08:57:04 am »

How about make the whole page floating in the middle and then putting the width wider then it is now?
We just need less grey background, and more white main space.
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GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2567


« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2007, 07:18:33 pm »

Hopefully, all the howtos can be written in the Wiki in future, seeing what happened to the forum a while back.

If HowTo's are written in the Wiki, I think we should have a link to them in the forum. It becomes unwieldy if we have to check both the forum an the Wiki to find out how to do something. I think links from the forum to the Wiki would be sufficient.
--GrannyGeek
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M0E-lnx
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 3195



« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2007, 04:28:29 am »

errr... shouldn't vpackager be listed under the "how to install software from source" as one of the methods?

vpackager builds the source and upon a successful build, it offers to install it for you... for easy gslapt/slapt-get removal afterwards....

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InTheWoods
Vectorite
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Posts: 302


« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2007, 07:51:53 am »

Quote
Personally I am for registered users only
Xeon I added my how to without registering. Better fix that!

Quote
shouldn't vpackager be listed under the "how to install software from source" as one of the methods?

Please feel free to edit "how to install software from source" MOE-inx. That's what wikis are about.

Quote
I think links from the forum to the Wiki would be sufficient
I agree. The wiki becomes your "How To" the main difference is that it should be easier to find what you are looking for. When a problem that gets a lot of attention is solved in the forum a wiki article should be written. The wiki becomes your up to date vector documentation for all users. Ask questions in the forum. Permanently document answers to common and important questions in the wiki.

Of course if you subscribe to this view of wiki use it should be divided into similar sections as the forum for ease of navigation and familiarity.

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M0E-lnx
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 3195



« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2007, 11:33:58 am »

Just added the vpackager section to the wiki under "Installing software from source"

I dont know a whole lot of wiki syntax, so if anyone can make it look better, Please do
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Xeon
Vectorite
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Posts: 115


« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2007, 01:35:05 pm »

Quote
Personally I am for registered users only
Xeon I added my how to without registering. Better fix that!

I do nothing without agreement from the other users. For now the wiki is still go ahead and edit.

Though in a first attempt to prevent random articles to pop up, I restricted the acces for the start file.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 01:41:08 pm by Xeon » Logged
Masta
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 725



« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2007, 07:46:51 pm »

Just looked over wiki. Haven't been there since my last comment. I have to say it is looking very nice, Great job, Very great job!!
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metvas
Vectorite
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Posts: 311


« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2007, 08:55:38 am »

Hello All:
Yes I agree, the wiki it looks good. A few suggestions here may help before it gets to populated. These are suggestions for the structure only. Before you write.
Ask yourself who is the intended reader?
Is it Novice? Power user? or Sys admin? They all have to be addressed as they all have questions that require answers.
 
If we create with the “depth first”, thinking. The article becomes an elevator article, goes and goes and goes. If you run into this do this, and if you run into this do this etc, etc. other than a sys. Admin. or advanced power users all others will loose interest and give up. If we look at our current forum the vast majority of questions are obviously mainstream novice or slightly higher users.
 I would suggest breaking off the wiki into three groups of articles as noted above, (mainstream novice, power user and sys. Admin.), with the addition of a glossary for reference for those who get lost in the terminology. They can flip over to the glossary find the meaning and go back to the article, clearly understanding, thus preventing them getting lost in terminology and the article. For them it makes all our efforts useless, as they have given up due to the complexity of terminology. In my mind this would make the wiki as slick as our distro. Your thoughts? Suggestions?
Regards
Darrell
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InTheWoods
Vectorite
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Posts: 302


« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2007, 03:33:37 pm »

Quote
suggestions for the structure
I agree. We need some kind of structure. I have suggested mirroring the forum. The suggestion of  "mainstream novice, power user and sys. Admin"  categories is  very important to consider. Either divide the wiki into categories as metvas suggests or label articles as novice etc within each category. Pehaps each level of article could have it's own logo or page colour to show the level of user it is targeted at.

Most important is something as opposed to nothing.
“depth first” this is important and should not be overlooked.

"glossary"
 I really like this idea. How about a glossary page with key words in each article linked to the glossary? I would imagine DokuWiki has the ability to link to sections (glossary item) of a page.
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rbistolfi
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2291


« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2007, 04:23:35 pm »

I have seen a plugin in other Dukuwiki installs which allows you to view / translate a wikipage in others languages, could be a nice addition.

EDIT: I got the link:
http://wiki.splitbrain.org/plugin:translation
« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 05:10:32 am by rbistolfi » Logged

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InTheWoods
Vectorite
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Posts: 302


« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2007, 08:29:10 pm »


I have added a glossary page. At present there is only one link to it from the installing from source code HOW TO just for testing. I suggest not linking to it much until we get some structure finalized. Perhaps it's time for a poll on just what that structure will be.

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