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Author Topic: VL-Hot + HAL in VL 5.9 == one big mess  (Read 12221 times)
caitlyn
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« on: September 17, 2007, 01:40:39 pm »

VL 5.9 has HAL support installed by default.  It correctly pops up a desktop icon for each removable media volume.  Cool!  VL-Hot pops up two more of it's own.  Three icons per volume is a mess!  Either HAL needs to go or VL-Hot needs to go.  Joe1962 won't like my vote on which one...
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uelsk8s
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« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2007, 02:04:17 pm »

Caitlyn,
can you access your drives from the hal icons, Without vl-hot?

I dont think Joe would be against using hal instead of vl-hot, If hal worked reliably.

Uelsk8s
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Joe1962
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« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2007, 02:10:45 pm »

Caitlyn: I've figured for some time that hal would replace vl-hot, though I was surprised both are active in 5.8 SOHO. I'll just have to figure out a way to safely nuke hal on my personal systems... Grin

BTW, how does the single hal icon in xfce handle unmount? The 2 vl-hot icons in xfce were necessary because it didn't support the context menu actions like KDE does.

I dont think Joe would be against using hal instead of vl-hot, If hal worked reliably.
Oh, but I am, I just refuse to force my preferences on others... Wink

FWIW, IMO and AFAIK, vl-hot is simpler, lighter and way more flexible and configurable than hal (and I have some new surprises cooking). Then again, I haven't looked closely at hal because of my natural aversion to YAPP (Yet Another Polling Process).
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 02:13:21 pm by Joe1962 » Logged

O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
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uelsk8s
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« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2007, 02:23:27 pm »

hal will not mount or unmount any usb devices for me.
Quote
Unable to mount "DISK1S2":
A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file (rejected message had interface "org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume" member "Mount" error name "(unset)" destination "org.freedesktop.Hal")

If I have vl-hot installed I can get to the usb drive through the hal Icon but it still refuses to umount

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Dweeberkitty
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« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2007, 03:31:16 pm »

hal will not mount or unmount any usb devices for me.
Quote
Unable to mount "DISK1S2":
A security policy in place prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient, see message bus configuration file (rejected message had interface "org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.Volume" member "Mount" error name "(unset)" destination "org.freedesktop.Hal")

If I have vl-hot installed I can get to the usb drive through the hal Icon but it still refuses to umount



I have the same problem with unmounting usb drives. Accessing my usb drives from the hal icon works perfectly. It also shows up on the side of thunar where I can access it without trouble. The same goes for CD-ROM or DVD discs. I can access them fine and everything with HAL but I can also eject them from HAL. The problem with the usb drives may just be a VL or Xfce issue.

Personally I have to say that I like the way HAL works better than VL-Hot but I understand perfectly why some may not like it. (especially Joe1962  Wink)

P.S. Mounting all kinds of drives works for me, just the unmount on usb drives doesn't.
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easuter
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2007, 03:35:31 pm »

Also HAL's policies are defined using XML configuration files (yay! very easy for the average user to configure).

VL-Hot-Config anyone? Grin

Seriously, for other things like CD auto-mounting there are already some apps (such as diskd) that can act as polling daemons.
So a user could chose which types of devices to automount.

A combination of VL-Hot + scripted diskd would probably accomplish the same that HAL does for the average user when it comes to removable media, and probably be a lot lighter on resources too.

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Vxt
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« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2007, 03:38:56 pm »

Natural aversion to YAPP ?

I soundly  second that -as a "sound" developer neccessity
You have the uneviable task of  making many release decisions

Like all vectelopers I have ever seen - listen carefully to all requests 
 
Then must endlessly "explain rationale"
If everything was decided by Polls - would -anythng  ever get accomplished ?
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Joe1962
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« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2007, 04:08:17 pm »

If everything was decided by Polls - would -anythng  ever get accomplished ?
LOL, I didn't mean that kind of poll, but rather the fact that hal polls the hardware to notice when a CD is inserted, etc. In a recent, perhaps only slightly related, anecdote I was working at borderline distance to a WiFi AP and winders slowed down to crawl. A bit of detective work narrowed the culprit down to Intel's WiFi applet (whatever they actually call it), detecting the AP, trying to connect, then loosing it again. After unceremoniously killing it, I could get back to work again.


EDIT:
@easuter: Regarding CD/DVD drives, my personal preference is a nice icon/icons with click-to-mount, right-click to unmount, no autorun for me, thank you very much... Grin
« Last Edit: September 17, 2007, 04:10:54 pm by Joe1962 » Logged

O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
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Vxt
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2007, 05:19:40 pm »

Heh,   I didn't mean to cast a  Grin Pall on feature polls,
~  you don't even think that way
But it did seem the.... topic header was an informal ermmm ?

But that's only me - if Caitlyn needs a Hal -she does have choices few other distros offer ?

As is well known,   I have an aversion to auto-anything
Impractical - may well be
I can only feebly justify _ who ever was motivated to  learn anything - when it all "just worked" ?

The fastest folder growth  on my system - is the invaluable bookmarks URLz
When I have difficulties (often) ~ You can  guess the resulting growth of   umm "Language resources" Tongue

To hall w/it all ? - personally speaking : I already have more H---s than anybody might ever wish to avoid
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caitlyn
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2007, 06:04:41 pm »

But that's only me - if Caitlyn needs a Hal -she does have choices few other distros offer ?

Hal does not unmount correctly under Xfce in VL 5.9.  It DOES unmount correctly in Wolvix 1.1.0 under Xfce 4.4.1.  We may need to ask Wolven what he's doing because it works.
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Dweeberkitty
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2007, 08:19:23 pm »

A combination of VL-Hot + scripted diskd would probably accomplish the same that HAL does for the average user when it comes to removable media, and probably be a lot lighter on resources too.

I, personally would prefer just HAL as it seems to make life much more simple than a combination of various programs and scripts when we could just have one thing, namely HAL, that did it all. With a VL-Hot + scripted diskd there is also more of a chance that something could go wrong because there are more variables involved. There is a downside to just HAL though and that might be the performance, we need to take a look and see exactly how much of the system's resources it actually uses. But...I'll leave that up to the developers to figure out. Just my vote though, HAL.

Also HAL's policies are defined using XML configuration files (yay! very easy for the average user to configure).

Yup, another reason why I would like HAL to stay in VL 5.9.

But that's only me - if Caitlyn needs a Hal -she does have choices few other distros offer ?

Hal does not unmount correctly under Xfce in VL 5.9.  It DOES unmount correctly in Wolvix 1.1.0 under Xfce 4.4.1.  We may need to ask Wolven what he's doing because it works.

Yeah, I figured that it was probably just a VL issue.
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Vxt
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2007, 08:36:06 pm »

Well  there you go now -If hal won't co-operate

Four  choices

~ Ask Wolven
~ Examine Wolvix script
~ Co-ordinate w/Joe &/or other prolific vectelopers
~ Rely on own resources

Me - I'm just a hard-core enthusiast
~ a Norwegian Blue

Wink Pining for the Fiords ?

Do you pine ?

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The Headacher
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« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2007, 10:38:54 pm »

I haven't tried any of the new Pseudo's yet due to massive computer trouble, but that doesn't stop me from having an opinion Grin.

I would really dislike to see the Hell-Demon eating cpu I need for gaming, making music or editing video's (also, it's unlikely I'll be hotplugging much when doing so). It would be pretty neat if it could be turned off like most other services in VASM. I'll disable it for sure, one way or another.

I don't want anything to automount my cd's / dvd's. If I want to mount something easily from the desktop I could just add one of them "Link to Device"s to my desktop in kde. All I'd have to do is rightclick and select "Mount".

Quote
Also HAL's policies are defined using XML configuration files (yay! very easy for the average user to configure).
You're joking, right? is editing XML files considered user friendly now?Huh?
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stoichyu
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2007, 11:16:17 pm »

I wonder why they couldn't make a non-polling version of HAL, like vl-hot. Anyway, I think the problem in VL for mount/unmount in xfce is dbus. AFAIK, our dbus config is borked, to some extent. I use dbus commands for pidgin, so I know. I think the problem is that we run the dbus daemon twice, during xinit and at the login shell. I think it should be started during system init to avoid this problem.
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Joe1962
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2007, 11:24:21 pm »

Quote
Also HAL's policies are defined using XML configuration files (yay! very easy for the average user to configure).
You're joking, right? is editing XML files considered user friendly now?Huh?
Hehe, I really think easuter was being sarcastic and meaning just the opposite, but he was taking too literally.

I wonder why they couldn't make a non-polling version of HAL, like vl-hot.
Because you really need to poll CDs if you want to automount them, otherwise you'd never know one was put in the drive. Floppy drives had this "disk change line" but I guess they forgot to add one when CD drives were designed... Roll Eyes
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
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