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Author Topic: Gslapt, software and repositories  (Read 8428 times)
nulll
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« on: October 08, 2007, 11:05:31 am »

i have a VL SOHO 5.8, i would like to have more software installable, but in
Gslapt>preference
i find a sea of repositories...what are good what are bad?

i have read this
http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3681.0
and the PATCHES the SOHO and the EXTRA are selected,
but they give me not enough packages...i want more...

Another thing: after installing VL i found a lot of apps installed that i do not need.
I would like to delete them but i can not find them in Gslapt...why? where should i look for them?

(PS VL SOHO is running KDE wonderfully on my 800Mhz PC!!! greate!)
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exeterdad
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2007, 11:15:35 am »

I'd bet those packages that are installed that you can't seem to remove via gslapt are KDE packages?  Those can not be removed individually as our KDE packages aren't broken down like the rpm distro's do it.

When you say you want more packages, what do you mean?  What in particular are you looking for?
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nulll
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2007, 11:22:48 am »

Quote
I'd bet those packages that are installed that you can't seem to remove via gslapt are KDE packages?
i'm not sure but i think u are right

Quote
hose can not be removed individually as our KDE packages aren't broken down like the rpm distro's do it.
so? how can i remove those packages?

Quote
When you say you want more packages, what do you mean?  What in particular are you looking for?
well this days i've been searching for some stuff and i was not able to find it...i can't remember every single app i didn't find but some of theme yes:

kgtk
apollon
some games
quanta
...
...

so what about all those not selected sources in glaspt>preference?
what are good for me?
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exeterdad
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2007, 11:38:46 am »

quanta is included in the kdewebdev package.

To explain about not being able to remove individual kde packages a bit.  When you download the KDE source from KDE,  you download bulk.  Then you compile them, and then all the apps that KDE ships are built.  So one KDE package will contain many KDE apps.  To remove apps that you don't like is impossible.  Another way to build packages is to break them down into individual KDE apps.  That isn't the way we do it.  In fact I can't think of a Slackware based distro that does it that way. 
I have proposed that we build KDE and break down all the apps to create individual packages, but it didn't get discussed.

I've never heard of the apps that you are missing.  But I did investigate and they do seem interesting. 
You will find if you place requests in the "New Package Requests" forum http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?board=35.0 That often someone will eagerly build a package for you.  Smiley
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nulll
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2007, 03:10:08 pm »

thanks for your help...quanta was there!

i come from ubuntu so i don't know tha slac world...
Quote
So one KDE package will contain many KDE apps.
can i delete some of theme? where can i find them?

Quote
That isn't the way we do it.  In fact I can't think of a Slackware based distro that does it that way.
so it's a usual thing on slac based distro...what is the pro of it? the system is faster?

why some pks are built together and some not (kaffeine, dolphin..)?

and how can i do with those apps that i can't find in the official repos?

what about all the other repos?

it's hard to compile in VL?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 03:17:02 pm by nulll » Logged
lagagnon
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2007, 03:33:42 pm »

can i delete some of theme? where can i find them?
You sort of need to know what you are doing because, as was said above, many KDE packages bundle a number of applications together. In gslapt if you type "kde" in the search bar you will see all the apps that relate to KDe that are in our repositories. Those with a blue box are installed. If you then click on the "Common, Description and Dependancies" tabs you will find out more about the packages, which is the info you are looking for.
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so it's a usual thing on slac based distro...what is the pro of it? the system is faster?
Most of your question would be answered by reading our VL Package Management Document, located via the VL Docs icon on your desktop, and go to "VL Manuals" and select Packaging System. (file:///usr/doc/VLHelpCenter/manuals/index.html).

Quote
why some pks are built together and some not (kaffeine, dolphin..)?
I would guess because they have common dependancies.

Quote
and how can i do with those apps that i can't find in the official repos?
You can compile and package the application yourself or put in a request that someone make a package (see our "New Package Requests" forum).

Quote
it's hard to compile in VL?
Not usually - it depends on the source code. It is made quite easy now with VL Packager. Search the forums for more info....
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 10:51:31 pm »

can i delete some of them? where can i find them?
You can... For instance, I dislike the "kdetoys", "kdegames", "kdenetwork", "kdepim" and "kdeedu" package, so I removed them. Usually, you can read what programs are in a 'bulk' package by reading it's package description in for instance gslapt.

Quote
Quote
That isn't the way we do it.  In fact I can't think of a Slackware based distro that does it that way.
so it's a usual thing on slac based distro...what is the pro of it? the system is faster?
These are the packages as provided by kde. They use common libraries, which is why they are bundled. You can take them apart and build every single program as a separate package, but if you build them like this you might loose functionality in your programs, and it's a lot of work. I tried it some time ago with "kdemultimedia", but lost the ability to preview movies in konqueror. 

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why some pks are built together and some not (kaffeine, dolphin..)?
These packages are not part of a bulk package.

Quote
and how can i do with those apps that i can't find in the official repos?
You can look for them at www.linuxpackages.net and www.slacky.eu . Make sure you search for slackware 11 packages, as that is what vl 5.8 is built on.

Quote
what about all the other repos?
I never tried them. But Slackware, Slacky and Linuxpackages should be relatively safe as long as Slack11 packages are used. Keep in mind that Slackware doesn't use dependency info though.
One that IS pretty nice IMO is the vectorlinux testing repository.

Quote
it's hard to compile in VL?
No, usually it's quite easy, as a lot of the stuff needed to compile is already there, IF you chose the "dev" package during install. If not, you can get the packages in it (gcc, gcc-g++, autotools) from the repository or install the dev package from the cd. Some programs are hard to compile on any system though, because of how they were written/designed.
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nulll
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2007, 03:22:43 am »

Thanks for your patiance, as i told u i'm new of slack, so i'm triyng to understand the basics...in the VL guide i can't find this answers

Quote
Quote
can i delete some of them? where can i find them?
You can... For instance, I dislike the "kdetoys", "kdegames", "kdenetwork", "kdepim" and "kdeedu" package, so I removed them. Usually, you can read what programs are in a 'bulk' package by reading it's package description in for instance gslapt.
ok, after work i will try this way

Quote
These are the packages as provided by kde. They use common libraries, which is why they are bundled. You can take them apart and build every single program as a separate package, but if you build them like this you might loose functionality in your programs, and it's a lot of work. I tried it some time ago with "kdemultimedia", but lost the ability to preview movies in konqueror.
but in ubuntu the pkgs are "standalone" and the seem to work fine...
so i understand that it's not a meaning of system benefits...

Quote
Quote
and how can i do with those apps that i can't find in the official repos?
You can look for them at www.linuxpackages.net and www.slacky.eu . Make sure you search for slackware 11 packages, as that is what vl 5.8 is built on.
ok, i know that in a slack there is no dependecincies check during the installation of a package, and i know that the VL solution to this problem is a kind of inusual thing in slack world...so if i install from those repos, i must check the dependencies by my hown?

Quote
One that IS pretty nice IMO is the vectorlinux testing repository.
sorry, i'm italian...i haven't understand

Quote
No, usually it's quite easy, as a lot of the stuff needed to compile is already there, IF you chose the "dev" package during install. If not, you can get the packages in it (gcc, gcc-g++, autotools) from the repository or install the dev package from the cd. Some programs are hard to compile on any system though, because of how they were written/designed.
ok them...i'll give it a try!

as i sayd, i'm very happy with vectorlinux...i have an old 800mhz pc that with kubuntu was terribly slow...
with VL SOHO 5.8 KDE runs great...the system is fast and reactive...
the only hard thing to me is the (new for me) slackware world...
thanks to all for the great work!
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The Headacher
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 09:34:32 am »

Quote
but in ubuntu the pkgs are "standalone" and the seem to work fine...
so i understand that it's not a meaning of system benefits...
That's probably true (haven't tried a 'buntu for about 2 years now)... But then again they probably have the manpower to dissect every kde* package, then package everything separately. Again, this is not the way these packages are distributed by the kde guys. If you do build them like this you have to be extremely careful (build in the right order).

I see how it would be nice to be able to remove/install the programs seperately, but it's a crapload of work, which sort of nullifies the advantage of KDE over gnome.
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saulgoode
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2007, 10:13:42 am »

Another thing: after installing VL i found a lot of apps installed that i do not need.
I would like to delete them but i can not find them in Gslapt...why? where should i look for them?

Slackware packaging maintains its "database" of installed software in the '/var/log/packages' directory. Each installed package has a corresponding text file in that directory which lists which files were installed by the package. If you perform a 'ls /var/log/packages/kde*' then you will receive a list of KDE packages installed.

Code:
ls /var/log/packages/kde*

kdeaccessibility-3.5.6-i486-3  kdeedu-3.5.6-i486-3         kdepim-3.5.6-i486-3
kdeaddons-3.5.6-i486-3         kdegames-3.5.6-i486-3       kdesdk-3.5.6-i486-3
kdeadmin-3.5.6-i486-3          kdegraphics-3.5.6-i486-3    kdetoys-3.5.6-i486-3
kdeartwork-3.5.6-i486-3        kdelibs-3.5.6-i486-3        kdeutils-3.5.6-i486-3
kdebase-3.5.6-i486-3           kdemultimedia-3.5.6-i486-3  kdevelop-3.4.0-i486-3
kdebindings-3.5.6-i486-3       kdenetwork-3.5.6-i486-3     kdewebdev-3.5.6-i486-3

Of course, not all KDE packages start with "kde", so to find other packages that may belong to KDE you can 'grep' the individual files searching for appropriate text:

grep --files-with-matches KDE /var/log/packages/*

This will list additional packages such as 'koffice', 'arts', 'ktorrent', et cetera.

When you remove a package, only the files specified in the package get removed -- and that happens only if the file isn't listed in a different installed package. (This is different from Debian where removing a package might result in other packages also being removed.) This behavior makes it relatively safe to experiment with uninstalling packages; just remove the package and if things stop working, reinstall it.

In most cases, having a package installed when it is never used only means that you have lost some disk space. There is no performance gain to be had by uninstalling the package (unless the package is running a daemon). You might wish to take this into consideration when deciding which packages to remove.
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nulll
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2007, 10:41:01 am »

i'm tryng to find in wich bulk pckg are those apps that i want to remove but in the description field of "kdetoys", "kdegames", "kdenetwork", "kdepim" and "kdeedu" there isn't the list of the apps contained!!! this is not good and makes it more difficult to delete unwanted apps!

...i can't find even xeyes...but is not a kde app...how can i delete it?

...on those links u gave i can't find kgtk and kmldonkey...
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The Headacher
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2007, 12:42:15 pm »

Sorry, I must've remembered wrong  Embarrassed (was a long time ago when I removed them). However, there are other ways to find out.Every package has documentation. To read the documentation of for instance kdegraphics, you can do
Code:
less /usr/doc/kdegraphics*/README

You can also read all of the kde* README's in for instance firefox, kate, and other programs that support tabs like this:
Code:
firefox /usr/doc/kde*/README &

There are more documentation files in the same directory, but in this file is a list of programs and a short description of them.

Another thing you could do is just find out what programs are in a certain package:
Code:
grep /bin/ /var/log/packages/kdegames-3.5.6

Keep in mind that you'll need at least kdelibs and kdebase to have a functional KDE desktop.

Quote
...i can't find even xeyes...but is not a kde app...how can i delete it?
I found xeyes like this
Quote
grep xeyes /var/log/packages/*
/var/log/packages/kdeartwork-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/icons/kdeclassic/16x16/apps/xeyes.png
/var/log/packages/kdeartwork-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/icons/kdeclassic/32x32/apps/xeyes.png
/var/log/packages/kdeartwork-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/icons/Locolor/16x16/apps/xeyes.png
/var/log/packages/kdeartwork-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/icons/Locolor/32x32/apps/xeyes.png
/var/log/packages/kdebase-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/apps/kappfinder/apps/Games/Toys/xeyes.desktop
/var/log/packages/kdebase-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/icons/crystalsvg/16x16/apps/xeyes.png
/var/log/packages/kdebase-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/icons/crystalsvg/32x32/apps/xeyes.png
/var/log/packages/kdebase-3.5.6-i586-1vl58:opt/kde/share/icons/crystalsvg/scalable/apps/xeyes.svgz
/var/log/packages/vlicons-noia-5.0.0-noarch-4vl58:usr/share/icons/ROX-noia/apps/xeyes.png
/var/log/packages/x11-6.9.0-i486-11:usr/X11R6/bin/xeyes
/var/log/packages/x11-6.9.0-i486-11:usr/X11R6/man/man1/xeyes.1x.gz
As you can see, xeyes is part of the x11 package. This is as designed by the X guys, not a decision by the VL developers (actually, it's a Slackware package). if you would use "make install" on x11, you would get it. If you really want to get rid of it you can of course remove all files that have something to do with it, but I wouldn't count on saving huge amounts of space; xeyes and it's man page together are just 13 kB. I don't know how big the icons together are, but if you're going to remove all unused icons..... well let's just say you can of course do it (it's Linux Wink), but the saved space does not justify the amount of time it'll take.

Hope this helps a little Smiley
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nulll
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2007, 02:12:19 pm »

thanks...now everything is more clear...but it still seems very very difficult to me to get rid of non-standalone apps

so if i want to install an app from www.slacky.eu i need to install even all the dependencies of that app?

grazie!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 02:15:53 pm by nulll » Logged
lagagnon
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2007, 03:36:35 pm »

...but it still seems very very difficult to me to get rid of non-standalone apps
Do you have a hard drive space problem? Is that why you really want to get rid of packaged-together KDE apps? Instead of that what about removing SeaMonkey, Firefox, Opera or whatever (large apps you don't need) and using Konqueror instead - or some other combination of ideas. What about loading VL 5.8 Standard instead of VL 5.8 SOHO ? - that would save you lots more space and be lighterweight - if that's what you're after.
Quote

so if i want to install an app from www.slacky.eu i need to install even all the dependencies of that app?
In the VL document regarding our packaging system (did you read it yet?) it states that yes, you can use most Slackware packages in VL, but they will not have the dependancy tracking and auto dependancy loading of slapt-get based VL apckages, so yes, you will need to install its dependancies first or you will receive an error.
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nulll
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2007, 03:43:50 pm »

Quote
Do you have a hard drive space problem? Is that why you really want to get rid of packaged-together KDE apps?
no it's just a meaning of order...i can't stand to have a lot of not used apps Wink

Quote
What about loading VL 5.8 Standard instead of VL 5.8 SOHO
mmm...i love kde and i feel more confortable with it

Quote
In the VL document regarding our packaging system (did you read it yet?) it states that yes
i haven't had the time to read it all but here and there i've been reading it
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