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Author Topic: Vista woes...  (Read 2208 times)
lagagnon
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« on: October 10, 2007, 11:32:10 am »

The other day I was assisting a client who was returning a Pentium 500, 384MB VectorLinux machine we had given her as she had been recently given a brand new $1200 notebook computer with Windows Vista on it. I helped her set up her wireless network encryption on the Vista box- it was my first experience with MS Vista. Admittedly, she had all the Vista glassy aero GUI features turned on, but that dual core 2 GB of RAM machine was by far much slower than the P500 with VL5.8 Standard, in terms of overall usage. It probably is faster at calculations and compilations but in booting apps, general use and moving around the GUI it was MUCH slower. Unbelievable really....

I made a casual mention of this to her and she said yes, she wasn't very happy about it and had actually taken the notebook in to have 1GB of RAM added (it came with 1GB installed). She said it was much slower when she first took it home. Sheeessshhh. So I suggested she turn off all the fancy aero interface stuff as I did not have time to do it myself. I hope that helps her out because she is seriously considering taking it back to the shop to have WinXP installed.

Any other experiences with Vista out there? - I have been reading about these problems on various news channels but this was my first real experience with it. It looks quite sexy but was as slow as molasses in January as far as we were both concerned! 
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The Headacher
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« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2007, 12:13:22 pm »

Quote
(it came with 1GB installed).
Yes, there are still a lot of computers being sold with Vista and just 1 GB of RAM, which is criminal IMO. You'll be swapping in no time with 1 GB of RAM & Vista. With VL on the other hand, you'll have a beauty of a machine Grin.

Quote
So I suggested she turn off all the fancy aero interface stuff as I did not have time to do it myself. I hope that helps her out because she is seriously considering taking it back to the shop to have WinXP installed.
There are quite a few sites that have tips & tricks on tweaking Vista. Just searching for "tweak" and "vista" on altavista returns more results than you can ever read, but I suppose turning off eyecandy will have the most effect and should be one of the easiest. I'm not too sure installing XP is a good option; you might have to do a lot of fiddling and driver searching to get your hardware going.

Quote
Any other experiences with Vista out there? - I have been reading about these problems on various news channels but this was my first real experience with it.
I have not tried it myself yet, but I might have my first try with it this week, apart from the beta I tried some time ago. That beta was so beta, any Linux distribution wouldn't even have dared to call it a beta. I actually needed to copy drivers for my harddisk (!) over from my old xp install before it worked. It also used a lot of memory, even without any special graphics. It's not fair to judge Vista by some crappy beta though, so I won't Wink.
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tomh38
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2007, 12:45:27 pm »

lagagnon,

Here's my limited experience with Vista.  I've helped a few people get some software and hardware working with it, I've helped people turn off some things (such as Aero) to speed it up, and I've played around with some display models in stores.

Turning off Aero seems to help some, but not enough in my opinion.  It looks to me like you have to have at least 2 GB of RAM and preferably the fastest processor you can get in order for the thing to run at anything like a decent speed.  Even Linux distributions which are aimed at higher-end hardware (say for example Mandriva and Ubuntu) would outclass Vista on the same hardware (just based on what I've seen) in terms of speed.

Also, I've seen that even Microsoft in-house software can be crashy on Vista.  The bundled email app (formerly Outlook Express, now Windows Mail if I'm not mistaken) seems to go belly-up quite a bit.  For my friends who aren't very computer literate and don't want to switch to Linux, I've downloaded Thunderbird and set that up for them.  From what I can tell Thunderbird seems to run fine.

One guy I know became so frustrated with Vista that he wiped his hard drive and installed XP on his new (formerly Vista) machine.  He did have to do some searching around for drivers and stuff to get everything working.

From everything I've heard and read, Vista seems to be an overall piece-of-junk bloated OS.  I'm just glad I have VL and don't have to worry about Windows on my own machine anymore.

Tom
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Lyn
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2007, 12:45:40 pm »

My father solved his problem with a dodgy usb modem and Windows 98 by buying a new computer with Vista Home installed on it.... and its one of the most ugly things I have seen for a long time.... 1GB RAM (I think) and its sluggish.  Of course home has none of the flash visual features of Premium but it makes XP look stylish.   I can't see what benefits anyone gets in having Vista Home over XP.
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blurymind
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2007, 01:26:29 pm »

DRM and the other "trusy" processes running by default are slowing her computer down.  Probably even when aero is turned off,its gonna be the same slugish thing. Tongue Afterall,its the spyware OS.Its indexing and analyzing everything,sending data to microsoft servers.

Vista (and all other windows) are badly stolen design ideas from the MAC.I'm talking about both design and functionality ideas.Everything was plagiated and poorly executed(look at how fast it is). M$ has whatsoever no immagination. Windows is the dullest OS ever.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 01:31:11 pm by blurymind » Logged

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Freston
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2007, 01:37:45 pm »

My 1.5 Celeron with Vector outpreforms many of the new machines sold today.



Vista...
It's kinda what you call a window of opportunity, isn't it?

*Sigh* I really should be selling Linux... Now where was my business plan??
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2007, 02:51:39 pm »

Quote
(it came with 1GB installed).
Yes, there are still a lot of computers being sold with Vista and just 1 GB of RAM, which is criminal IMO. You'll be swapping in no time with 1 GB of RAM & Vista. With VL on the other hand, you'll have a beauty of a machine Grin.

As I told in another thread, they are selling Vista boxes with just 512mb here! Bad luck, my aunt was one buyer of those lappys. After boot, 80% of the ram is in use. She is an Office user and she has mso2000 license. It install fine, but runs windows installer on each start Huh. Running it as admin solves the problem.
My personal experience is the same of the others here. I find it bloated and slow as a tank. I found tweaking the system is harder than older versions (at least for me). MSCONFIG can introduce you in a long list of popups and warnings on the next boot. I found services.msc does a better job for me.
The permissions thing is just terrible. It ask for your confirmation for stupid tasks and ignores others more importants. Disabling Windows Defender and other stuff was hard for me, but I admit I am not a Vista expert.
I set the classic interface for saving ram, no aero, of course. I didnt like the new menu, everything opening in the same "window". The search box is an improvement imo, since makes the menu more "keyboard friendly". I got the classic menu quickly, though.

I am trying to make the box faster. I found this site helpful: http://www.blackviper.com/
I dont want to fall in the common topic "I hate vista and everything from ms" of many linux users, but is really hard for me now I am actually using it   Roll Eyes
A cpu > 2ghz and 2gigs of ram for browsing the web and write some docs? That should be a crime. I know I said it before, but a PIII with 512 of ram and Linux can do the same better.

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BlueMage
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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2007, 02:54:53 pm »

I run Vista Ultimate on my beast - QX6700, 2GB DDR2, SLi-capable motherboard, single MSI 8800GTX.  I play games on this thing.  I run all the fancy graphics shit.  I haven't gotten Office for it, but that's fine, notepad does what I want and anything else I can do at uni.  I run WMP near constantly, torrents, and multiple instances of Firefox.  And I leave the Sidebar turned on (I find it rather useful to be able to see a clock when I'm playing Dark Crusade in a darkened room)

I love it.  I really, really love it.  I have not had a problem requiring restart that is the *fault* of the OS (any such are usually from games with bugs, and the joys of beta graphics drivers), my network works well (some minor printing issues, will knock it over when i actually sit down and do it properly) and I don't notice any of the supposed slowdown in opening apps.  I've encountered no DRM issues, and I haven't been party-van'd yet either, so obviously MS doesn't have proof I didn't quite pay for all the games.

Maybe I'm spoilt - it's certainly possible - but the only problem I have is with updates.  I can't access them, and a tracert indicates that's nothing to do with the OS, per se, but rather with a server over in the states.  Which reminds me, need to drop MS a line about that.

And finally, seeing what I've had to go through helping a mate get a Vista-laptop converted back to XP, it really isn't worth making the switch back.  Vista is here.  It's not going away.  I, for one, am glad I made the switch from XP to Vista.
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NuclearNed
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2007, 05:44:13 am »

 Cheesy
For some reason that strikes me as sarcastic.


I have Vista on Toshiba Satellite laptop i just bought. While I dont really really love it, I do like it better than xp. It pretty much uses the methods I'm used to, to cut down on bloat. Crap Cleaner makes it easier to turnoff the startup programs I dont use or need including ms defender. System properties allows me to turn off everything on the desktop except the visual themes, I do like the visual themes.
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MikeCindi
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2007, 06:20:00 am »

I have had similar experience to BlueMage although Vista is not the default OS on my desktop (Pentium-D with 2Gb RAM). Mostly I use my laptop with VL 5.8 SOHO and XP. VL is easily a more efficient OS but that's the case when comparing VL to the dozen-plus other linux distros I've looked over the last few years.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 11:32:19 am by mikecindi » Logged

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nightflier
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2007, 11:25:24 am »

Limited exposure from about a week of use. My 1.73 GHz/ 512 MB laptop came with Vista Home Basic (stripped down, no Aero interface).

Initial boot took over 40 minutes. Seems like the only configuration done to the pre-loaded OS was to enter the product key and bind it to that specific machine.

Even everyday operations like working with files result in a lot of pop-ups requiring you to verify/approve the action.

Inserting a USB media player/flash storage device with audio files set off a Zonealarm warning that Windows Media Player (which was not even running) wanted to access the Internet. I wonder why?

Some applications that install by a straight file copy process, like Irfanview plugins, resulted in a warning that they may not have installed correctly. All those programs seemed to work properly, though.

The thing is slow.

It can be argued that the following has nothing to do with Vista itself. However, as the key to Windows' success is the fact that most people acquire it by buying a computer with it preinstalled, I think it is relevant.

I burned the 6 restore disks and tested them. They did give me back a "like new" machine the way the manufacturer wants it. However, after simulating a hard disk failure by deleting all the partitions, the restore procedure no longer worked. Looks like it depends on some of the data stored on the hidden partition they put in there.

It takes a lot of time and effort to remove the preloaded advertisements/trials/demos. Norton Internet Security took about 10 minutes before the progress bar reached the end. Then it became unresponsive. I ended up having to go to Norton's web site and obtain a special uninstaller to get rid of it.

In my case, replacing Vista with a loaded Linux distro (loaded as in having a lot of functionality and useful applications, not as in bogged down), resulted in a machine much more to my liking.
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GrannyGeek
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2007, 05:11:10 pm »

I wouldn't buy Vista to upgrade a computer that's fully capable of running it, but when I got a new laptop to replace one that died it came with Vista Home Premium. I like it, though I'm not blown away.

It's not slow at all, it boots more slowly than XP (though apples to oranges--that's another computer), it shuts down faster than XP, it has been completely stable in the 6 weeks or so I've been using it, and I've found it pretty easy to set it up to my liking.

If someone's Vista is booting slowly, it could be a hardware problem even with a new computer (premature failure happens early on). Probably, though, it has too much stuff loading in the background, as is typical with new computers that come with preloaded software, trialware, crapware, excessive antivirus and antispyware apps, third party firewalls, etc. I've seen computers with 50 entries in MSCONFIG's Startup tab! Anything Norton on a system seems to have a molasses effect on it, and I've heard the same about McAfee.

Any computer running Vista with less than 2 gigs of RAM shouldn't be using Aero effects, particularly transparency. Actually, I think 2 gigs is a sweet spot; 1 gig isn't enough, though it'll do if you don't run much at the same time and don't use much eye candy.

I've turned off UAC with its pesky questions about whether I really want to copy a file. In theory, UAC is a good idea (it would prevent drive-by and other malware activity). In practice, it is poorly implemented. I do use antivirus in the background but no antispyware or other such stuff. They slow down a system and aren't needed if you have safe computing habits. Well, I need to modify that--I've left Windows Defender running and it doesn't seem to make much of a hit on the system.

I've also turned off indexing. It's supposed to work when nothing else is active, but I hate seeing my hard drive flickering all the time. I've never done much searching anyway, as I have a neat and well-organized system and pretty much know where things are.

I don't like the Classic Start menu. At first I found the Vista Start menu to be a mess, but a bit of exploration showed that I could tame it quite nicely and it's now efficient. If you don't feel like working your way through the Start menu, just type in the Search box the first few letters of the program you want to start and it'll show up quickly.

The wireless and the sound on this laptop basically don't work with Linux on its own partition at this time, but I'm writing this from Opera in VectorLinux 5.8 Standard running in VirtualBox under Vista. Works a treat! Thanks to the hardware being virtualized, everything is working and very happy in the virtual machine. One of the glories of new hardware is that we finally have enough power to run virtual machines, which sure do beat the pants off dual boots.
--GrannyGeek
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