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Author Topic: Russian schools moving to Linux  (Read 1878 times)
Dweeberkitty
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« on: October 09, 2007, 08:33:14 am »

This is cool!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7034828.stm
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exeterdad
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2007, 08:49:46 am »

Huh! Won't load for me.  I guess the BBC doesn't like me today.
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saulgoode
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 10:23:05 am »

This could be huge. I hope they stick with their decision -- many times countries have (unfortunately) used such announcements merely to gain better contract terms in negotiations with Microsoft. If this stands though, it will lead to great contributions to the development of Free Software; and also motivate hardware vendors to open up their specs.
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A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
tomh38
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 12:05:32 pm »

Good for the Russians.  I hope they stick with this plan.

Seeing that photo of Steve Ballmer made me wonder about something.  Ballmer took over from Gates as CEO of Microsoft in January of 2000.  The following year (in October) was when Windows XP was first released.  Was it around the time that Ballmer took over as CEO that Microsoft started to take a swan-dive into an empty swimming pool?  It looked to me like Windows (the NT branch) was getting better and better up to and including the release of Windows XP, and I would say including up to SP2.  I don't know about SP3, and I won't know much until other people tell me, since I don't use Windows any more.  It seems possible to me that it was while Bill Gates was still CEO that the decision was made to ditch the Windows 95-98-ME branch, and under Ballmer that most of the development of Vista took place.  There seems to be a growing consensus that Vista is at best not a very good OS, some even suggesting that Microsoft abandon it completely (though I don't see that happening).

I know that most personal computers will for some time run Windows, but it does look like Microsoft is losing some traction because of how long it took Vista to come out, the system requirements for Vista, the pricing of Vista, and the many problems that come with running Vista.

Could it be bad management on Ballmer's part that has put Microsoft's hold on its market in jeopardy?

This is just a question I'm curious about.  I would like to know what others think.
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
rbistolfi
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2007, 12:44:59 pm »

At least in my country, one mistake they are making is to ship Vista in boxes with just 512mb of ram. The system is, of course, slow. I am tweaking my aunt's new lappy now, disabling services and uninstalling Norton stuff and things like that. She owns a PIII machine with w98 too, and boots faster and runs ms office 2000 better. I told her: "You should came to me before buying a new computer". I cant reproduce her answer.
Anotrher thing I found is it is harder to tweak than XP, but that could be my mistake  Roll Eyes
I dont know if Balmer is guilty of those faults though.

About Russia, I would love to see things like that here, the local LUG is working very hard, I hope the state listen to them finally...
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 12:47:34 pm by rbistolfi » Logged

"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
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GrannyGeek
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2007, 07:25:35 pm »

My new laptop came with Vista Home Premium and I find a lot of the complaining about Vista is just "geek chic" Windows bashing. People said the same things when XP came out, and I've found XP to be the best Windows version I've ever used--and that was from the first day I installed XP a week after it came out.

Vista has high hardware requirements and should not be installed on computers that aren't up to it--which means most machines more than a year or so old. But today's hardware is quite capable of running Vista speedily as long as the computer has enough RAM. I agree with rbistolfi that 512 megs is totally inadequate. I wouldn't want to run Vista Home Premium on less than 2 gigs of RAM. That was a "must" when I did my brief shopping for a new laptop--it had to have 2 gigs of RAM. I don't see many systems for sale with 512 megs, but 1 gig for Home Premium is very common--and inadequate. RAM is cheap these days. But since most laptops have just 2 RAM slots and both tend to be loaded when you buy the laptop, if you buy a computer with 1 gig you'll have to replace two 512-meg sticks. So get a laptop with 2 gigs and you won't have to discard RAM.

I don't think Vista is harder to tweak than XP, it's just harder to find the places settings have gone. There also isn't as much information on the Web about how to deal with annoyances.

I don't see Windows going away or becoming seriously diminished in the market. I think the Mac will increase market share, especially since you can run Windows and Windows software through Boot Camp and Parallels. Macs do cost considerably more than Windows PCs at the lower end, and I think that will prevent some market growth. As more types of applications become usable through a browser, operating systems in general will become less important. That's how I see Windows as becoming less important. As applications become available for use with a browser, it won't matter whether your're using Windows, Mac OS, or Linux. But not all applications are used well with a browser. So far I haven't been very impressed with the Web applications I've seen. For example, I think the word processors stink unless all you do is write words and formatting and page design don't matter. Phoey!
--GrannyGeek
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2007, 06:47:43 am »

I don't see many systems for sale with 512 megs, but 1 gig for Home Premium is very common--and inadequate.

This is Home Basic edition, but 512 is still inadequate. I guess ram cost more here. 512 is not common on desktops now, but in laptops are very usual here, but you know, we are always a few steps down compared with the big countries, both in availability of hi-end stuff and prices (both are related, of course). The cause of this is polemic and deserves a deep study.

Quote
I don't think Vista is harder to tweak than XP, it's just harder to find the places settings have gone. There also isn't as much information on the Web about how to deal with annoyances.
Yes, that is probably a problem between the keyboard and the (my) chair  Embarrassed.

Quote
I don't see Windows going away or becoming seriously diminished in the market. I think the Mac will increase market share, especially since you can run Windows and Windows software through Boot Camp and Parallels. Macs do cost considerably more than Windows PCs at the lower end, and I think that will prevent some market growth. As more types of applications become usable through a browser, operating systems in general will become less important. That's how I see Windows as becoming less important. As applications become available for use with a browser, it won't matter whether your're using Windows, Mac OS, or Linux. But not all applications are used well with a browser. So far I haven't been very impressed with the Web applications I've seen. For example, I think the word processors stink unless all you do is write words and formatting and page design don't matter. Phoey!

Agreed. And dont forget about java and other forms of cross-platform developing. A lot of programs run in several os now, including open software. I use very few propietary soft in windoes now.
Perhaps one day the machines will come with just a boot system and ppp protocol. The applications are each day more in the server side.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 06:50:00 am by rbistolfi » Logged

"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
GrannyGeek
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 07:11:07 pm »

This is Home Basic edition, but 512 is still inadequate. I guess ram cost more here. 512 is not common on desktops now, but in laptops are very usual here, but you know, we are always a few steps down compared with the big countries, both in availability of hi-end stuff and prices (both are related, of course). The cause of this is polemic and deserves a deep study.

I understood that it was Home Basic. When Vista first came out, there were computers here for sale from the big retailers with Home Basic and 512 megs. For Home Premium therer were many with 1 gig. I guess customers were complaining and also, I hear the price of RAM has fallen rather steeply, at least to the big computer makers. So Home Basic doesn't show up much on sales from large retailers and if it does, it tends to come with a gig of RAM. There are more entry level desktop computers with 2 gigs of RAM for Home Premium, but many still have 1 gig. I wouldn't buy a Home Premium computer with less than 2 gigs. I also don't think 1 gig is so good even for Home Basic. I've turned off the Aero stuff, so even though I'm using Home Premium on the laptop, it's running as if it were Home Basic. I feel 2 gigs are needed.

Because I'm running VectorLinux in a virtual machine almost all the time I have the computer turned on and have allocated 512 megs for VL in the virtual machine, this is making significant demands on my RAM. Task Manager Performance shows that over 1 gig of physical RAM is in use when the VM is running--and that's with nothing much else running. Virtual machines are great, but they really do suck up computer resources.

I imagine that for light use (Web browsing, e-mail, viewing photos, writing letters) 1 gig would be okay whether it's Vista Home Basic or Home Premium.

Needless to say, VectorLinux would fly on even the lowliest Vista laptop as long as the hardware could be made to work. On mine I can't get wireless and sound to work, despite having tried VL 5.8 Standard installed on its own partition plus 8 distros on LiveCDs. All failed to get wireless going except for PCLinuxOS and Mandriva, but they kept losing the wireless connection, so weren't satisfactory, either. And no distro has been able to produce sound from the speakers. Fortunately, networking and sound work fine in the Linux guest in the VM on the Vista host.
--GrannyGeek
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Vanger
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« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2007, 09:28:55 am »

And now some words from the inside.

18.10 premier-minister Zubkov signed Order #1447-R, you can see it here: http://v-alksnis2.livejournal.com/71830.html
What does it mean:

- The list for types of software to be included in the package for schools is specified. The list is not covered by fully functional and translated to Russian Linux programs. So in 2007-2009 schools will work on Microsoft. But the money on proprietary software will be given only on these three years
- The word "Microsoft" disappeared from statement. In the revesion half a year ago it was on every page
- Support for developing "free software" - open-source meant - for educational purposes
- The pilot project started on developing and implementing in schools open-source educational software. Tender is announced with sum of contract 70 000 000 roubles - roughly 3mln$. 20mln on development and 50mln on integration. There will be three pilot regions, if all goes well - then Linux will be installed on all computers in schools and, naturally, will be adopted in government sphere. Total sum to be spent on educational Linux till 2010 - 720 mln roubles.

And. The level of computer knowledge of deputees in Duma is really low. The praise for this should go directly to Victor Imantovich Alksnis - yes, read an entry about him in wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Alksnis
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 09:31:01 am by Vanger » Logged

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