VectorLinux
July 27, 2014, 09:55:52 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Visit our home page for VL info. To search the old message board go to http://vectorlinux.com/forum1. The first VL forum is temporarily offline until we can find a host for it. Thanks for your patience.
 
Now powered by KnowledgeDex.
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Please support VectorLinux!
Poll
Question: Should we have an other-languages sub-forum?  (Voting closed: December 29, 2007, 02:01:37 pm)
Yes - 18 (48.6%)
No - 19 (51.4%)
Total Voters: 36

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
  Print  
Author Topic: Should we have an other-languages sub-forum?  (Read 9238 times)
ltjmax
Member
*
Posts: 11



« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2007, 08:56:32 am »

Maybe we should nominate someone responsible of each language... I mean, something like a moderator for the french speaking community, a moderator for the italian speaking community, etc... Those people could then be in charge to translate posts in their language. Like this, someone could post in french, the moderator translate it in english and then everyone can answer... At the end, the moderator just translate everything in french to be sure that the first guy who asked a question get his answer....

I'm not sure if I made myself clear... I'm french too, from Quebec and my english is far from perfect... but if at least something like this was done, it would surely open VectorLinux to a more larger community... just my 2 cents!
Logged
bigpaws
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1843


« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2007, 10:24:50 am »

Quote
just like metvas wants VL-provided paid product support

That project is already done. The support site is in operation.

https://vector.ecosq.com/ic

Feel free to browse around.

I voted No.

Granny Geek could not have stated it any better. When a non english
request is posted I Google the request and attempt answers. As long
as it is understood that translation is not great, I try the best that I am
able. Many others have done the same.

No one here has ever made a negative comment about other languages.
Which IMO is the way it should be. This forum has a community of users
that do not place political, geological, personal or religious preferences ahead
of helping someone else. Some interesting thoughts have been posted and ALL
of the respondents acted with prudence and respect. Which why this forum is
incredible.

Bigpaws
Logged
SuSE-Refugee
Ex-Officio
Vectorite
****
Posts: 203


Dude In The Snappy Hat


« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2007, 11:53:02 am »

Maybe we should nominate someone responsible of each language... I mean, something like a moderator for the french speaking community, a moderator for the italian speaking community, etc... Those people could then be in charge to translate posts in their language. Like this, someone could post in french, the moderator translate it in english and then everyone can answer... At the end, the moderator just translate everything in french to be sure that the first guy who asked a question get his answer....

You volunteering?...
Any idea of the amount of work that would load upon the moderators' shoulders?
It's not like they're being paid, y'know...
Logged

<Lame sig>
turquoise
Member
*
Posts: 6


« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2007, 02:20:01 pm »

I have to say that I agree with ltjmax's idea. It's one thing to have separate sub-forums, but as some have pointed out, it can lead to some lowering of the quality of the help. However, when the moderator of such sub-sections is able to speak English, it can be very easy to avoid. The first thing  is that if an answer exists elsewhere, then the moderator can translate it for the user who doesn't understand English. The reverse can also be true, if an English-speaking user see a potential solution in another language but doesn't understand the language, then he can ask for someone to explain it to him.

Quote
You volunteering?...
Any idea of the amount of work that would load upon the moderators' shoulders?
It's not like they're being paid, y'know...

I consider myself a bit too green with the use of Vector at the moment, but otherwise, I probably would. I have done so elsewhere, because I believe that getting help in our own language does help a whole lot so yes, I know how much of a workload this is. What i have also found out while doing it, is that the workload is heavy at first but after a while, it becomes easier because as more people start to contribute in a language-specific sub-forum, the number of users speaking both the language in question and English tends to increase, thus reducing the amount of time the moderator has to spend on translating things.

So my answer is yes to other languages, as long as the people in charge are able to speak the main language in use in these forums to make sure that as little information as possible is lost in the process.
Logged
bigpaws
Vectorian
****
Posts: 1843


« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2007, 02:58:42 pm »

Sometimes it appears that the community
loses sight of real numbers and resources.

There are 2249 members.

971 or 43% have not made a post
910 or 40% have up to 2 posts
310 or 14% were not found

50 or .02% have more than 100 posts which
are the majority that provide support.

Dividing resources should be considered for
every thought of expanding.

Bigpaws
Logged
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 2160



« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2007, 03:04:23 pm »

I agree that if this goes foreward, there should only be a language board if there is a moderator that can speak that language. Otherwise trash-talking can break out and nobody else will even know.

About the translating: count me out. After a long day I come home to my PC and there is already a huge amount of posts and new topics opened, some of which I don't have time to follow fully. Now imagine having to translate a pile of posts from a thread that has had a lot of activity, it would be unmanageable. Unless there is someone who wants to assume a translator role in the forum (like Suse-Refugee has suggested). Otherwise its just not sustainable.

Logged

turquoise
Member
*
Posts: 6


« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2007, 03:49:08 pm »

Of course it shouldn't become an additionnal load for those who already contribute heavily. This is what I mean about having the potential moderators speaking English and the language of the part they would be moderating. Also, the translation part doesn't have to be for *everything* that is posted. That would be asking for too much, for anyone. Experience taught me it is better done as on-demand basis. It also taught me that going back and forth between different languages has made me better at understanding the problems users experience and that has made me better in helping others.

If it comes to that, I have no problem with pointing out potential solutions and explaining to others what is being said in a thread. I already do it elsewhere, and not only in the forum where I do moderation work in French. I participate in other French forums, and explaining and translating things to help others is often part of the global helping effort in a situation like that. My problem in doing so in the present case is that I have been using Vector for barely a week, and in alternance with FreeBSD, so mot much experience in the field yet. My experience with Slackware-based and Slackware-like distros is also very limited, which makes me kind of lost at the moment. Time will help with that but until then, the help I can offer is very limited because I'm still in the process of figuring out some things for myself.
Logged
Freston
Vectorite
***
Posts: 165


« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2007, 06:22:45 pm »

If  an 'other languages forum' means that posts need to be translated into English, I change my vote to no.

Vector is a great distro, and this is a great forum. But you can ask to much of it's members. IMHO what you need as prerequisites for a non-English sub-forum is 1) a healthy group of members who are at least half proficient in the intended language, and 2) someone willing to moderate. And also 3) the sub-forum should add to the forum, not replace any (parts) of it.

That way it'll be easy on the existing participating members, because 1) it's moderated, 2) it's vitality is result of enthusiasm about the existence of the sub-forum; no posts = no enthousiasm  ; kill dead forum. And 3) the main parts of the forum remain in English.

Now I already told ya I can sound like a manager Grin But I'll be quick to give an example, which will be clearer than what I wrote above. I have a Dutch article about \Dutch Governmental 'comply or explain'policy on FOSS (pdf) in relation to the mandatory Open File Formats in data storage and archiving.

Now if I want to discuss this in relation to a growing local market due to this policy, I can do two things. I can put :(Dutch): before the thread title, or I can put it in the Dutch section. That is neither here nor there though, I wouldn't be posting about that... just couldn't think of another example Wink

To tell you the truth, I don't know if it's feasible to maintain such a forum... Can I change my vote to 'I dont know'?
Logged
Triarius Fidelis
Vecteloper
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2399


Domine, exaudi vocem meam


WWW
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2007, 08:05:13 pm »

Dividing resources should be considered for
every thought of expanding.

In light of everything else that has been said, I revoke my vote. I don't think anyone will put a ban on non-English messages at any rate.

I (try to Smiley) communicate with ghartl in German and on the odd chance there is a Swede here whose English is so bad that he/she can't communicate effectively, I will be ready for that as well. Smiley

nightflier, LOL @ Papiamentu ... don't forget Windish!!
Logged

"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
M0E-lnx
Administrator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 3178



« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2007, 08:14:19 am »


"SPEAK ENGLISH OR DIE!"

I have to disagree with that line of thought. I like to think that there are smart individuals all over the world who speak many different languages, and are sick and tired of their (translated version of) Wind OS. I feel that would = limiting VL's oportunity to grow.
Logged

Joe1962
Administrator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 2499



WWW
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2007, 09:05:26 am »

If  an 'other languages forum' means that posts need to be translated into English, I change my vote to no.
Actually, it was the other way around. They meant that a solution in the English part of the forum could be translated for a non-English reading member.
Logged

O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
SuSE-Refugee
Ex-Officio
Vectorite
****
Posts: 203


Dude In The Snappy Hat


« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2007, 09:54:35 am »

I have to disagree with that line of thought. I like to think that there are smart individuals all over the world who speak many different languages, and are sick and tired of their (translated version of) Wind OS. I feel that would = limiting VL's oportunity to grow.


IT => ENGLISH.
period.
See how one fares with understanding the configuration-scripts in Linux without having at least a basic grasp of english.
Like it or not; English is the Lingua Franca of IT and the Internet.(and trade , for a good part of the world..)
If you're not willing to learn such an insanely easy language, what are you willing to learn?...

« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 09:58:07 am by SuSE-Refugee » Logged

<Lame sig>
Gerinald
Guest
« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2007, 11:42:18 am »

Bonjour Suse Refugee,

Je me demande bien qui tu peut être pour parler ainsi Huh

Quote
If you're not willing to learn such an insanely easy language, what are you willing to learn?...
Hormis certain extrémiste qui parle ainsi, je ne voit pas d'autres terme te concernant.

Depuis le début de ce post, tu prêche pour rester anglophone.

Eh bien, pas de souci, reste comme tu et, fermé et obtus comme tu et, ça doit pas être triste autour de toi.

C'est avec des gens comme toi que rien n'avance.

Je vous signale quand même que vous n'êtes pas tout seul sur cette planète, et que il existe différentes langues, ainsi que des gens qui n'ont pas le temps ou la possibilité d'apprendre d'autres langues.

Mais bon, apparement, chez certain, il n'y a que l'anglais qui existe sur terre.

Franchement, je trouve cela très triste et déplorable.

@+ Gerinald
Logged
SuSE-Refugee
Ex-Officio
Vectorite
****
Posts: 203


Dude In The Snappy Hat


« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2007, 12:10:26 pm »

Gloves are off.

On the contrary;
Since (as I pointed out) English is the defacto standard in IT, refusing to follow the widely accepted standards is more harmfull to the general effort.
What you, and the others who want these Language-sub-forums are actually trying to accomplish is a fragmentation of knowledge.
Very much like the "Babylonian Language Confusion", as described in the bible.(Never thought big 'ole atheist me would ever refer to that book....)
Innovation is sped up by easy communication, which demands a common language.
As it is now in IT and on the majority of the Internet, that common language is English.
Why are you trying to break what doesn't need fixing?

Furthermore are you mistaken in me being an Anglophone: I'm Dutch and hence English is a second language to me(and German third..)
With the help of a dictionary I can decipher French, which normally doesn't even give a "blip" on my radar since it's neither an important language in my line of work(Mechanical engineering), nor for my hobbies (IT, amongst others.).

What I find deplorable is people who, out of cheer chauvinism, refuse to speak one single word across their own border(and even within in some cases...) and act all like the world owes them their own "special little snowflake"-treatment.


« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 12:13:54 pm by SuSE-Refugee » Logged

<Lame sig>
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 2160



« Reply #59 on: December 17, 2007, 01:47:01 pm »

This is thread is going south fast, so its closed  Angry
Logged

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!