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Author Topic: VL 6.0 schedule  (Read 15422 times)
nightflier
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« Reply #30 on: December 27, 2007, 06:12:33 am »

Wow, I'm gone a week and miss a lot!

Others have already forcefully stated what are also my opinions, so just for the tally:

- I like the Slackware base
- I don't care if my distro does not achieve world domination
- I am perfectly happy with a text installer
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2007, 06:13:14 am »

I think not every distro can be as big as Ubuntu, Suse, Fedora, etc. There is not enough market for all of them. I suspect the number of active projects will decrease in a future. For that reason, imho, vl should not attemp to compite with those distros or attemp to become one of them. So stay small. Hence, if you not sell quantity as Ubuntu, you have to sell quality, and try to find your place in the market.
We have seen this topic before, and the brainstorm is too big. We should focus and establish a few, short term goals and try to reach them.
May be the first one should be to remake the website. Ok, if that is what we need, lets focus on that, or something else, but needs to be one thing or two, because the forces for more are missing. Little steps.
My 2 cents:
In little companies a very important thing is to stay very well organized. I read Linus don't contribute for the kernel anymore, but writes code for Git. The management and organization is as much important as the project it self. We don't know if more developers will show up. Perhaps the way to go is to find a way of maximize the current forces. I am thinking at loud, but may be some kind of collaborative web site, when everybody could see the structure of the project, the goals, the intermediate task, what is needed, what is done and what is missing, etc; could help. Even in that way a more flexible system of collaboration and contribution can be implemented. In that way temporary and occasional contributors could help in minor tasks and give the main devs more time for working in the big things.

- Find related services to offer, such as Darrell support project. Special installations and configurations, networking, I don't know. Perhaps try to find a local partner for, for example, distribute / install ready to use CRM, CMS and other management tools for small / medium size companies.
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MikeCindi
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2007, 07:54:19 am »

[monologue]
Amazing...all of this from a few simple questions. The release of 5.8 Gold was just before Christmas 2006. A year between "major" releases is not unreasonable IMHO but if the purpose it to grow the VL user base then that timing would be much too long. I don't know how to get more developers in the mix as I know very few linux users personally (I don't think I've met anyone from this forum before) and none have the technical abilities for that task (self included). If users that have developer abilities are wanted then greater exposure for VL is needed.

Zenwalk releases something every week it seems so they stay visible on DW. Thus their ranking continues to be in the top 20. If VL is looking for DW popularity then posting something "new", regardless of anything really changing (i.e. form without substance), would fix that. (We missed some opportunities with the betas and RCs of 5.9.)

Am I personally (FWIW to others) willing to wait? Well, I haven't gone anywhere since 5.1. (I started with 4.3 but had a run with SuSE 9.x and several dozen other short-lived tastings of others.) So, YES I'm not going anywhere anytime soon (unless VL dies).

As for the financial profitability of VL...my limited exposure to various linux communities (including this one) is that "free", in every sense of the term, is expected (as opposed to valued). (Yes, I know that there are some very popular commercial distros but they are much different from the most popular "distro" - Microsoft. If they charged for every package that was "extra" like MS does then they would not be so popular.) It is very difficult to be financially competitive in the OS market. While I believe VL is a superior rendering of the linux OS I'm not so sure that the OS market has the same opinion.

As I have said since my very early posts as a VL user this community is what makes VL great. The product will attract users (given enough exposure) but the community is what will keep them. Perhaps that is what VL should be enhancing.
[/monologue]
Mike
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 07:55:50 am by mikecindi » Logged

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lagagnon
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2007, 08:27:22 am »

In my opinion, for what it is worth, I feel this way about VL6:

1) keep Slackware base for sure. At any rate we could not hope to compete with *Ubun*, Mepix, Debian, Mint, etc, etc,
2) a GUI installer is not important to me. In fact, I think a fully GUI VASM would bring more users to the fold. However, that requires a very dedicated experienced developer working many hours. I wish I could help but I do not have those skills.
3) in the developer's world release of a major number (ie jump from VL5 to 6) usually means a significant improvement, so I fully understand vec's use of VL5.9. IMHO VL6 really should include a revised VASM, KDE4 and a GUI installer. That is a lot of development work, so maybe one year from now is not too far off the mark!
4) I am happy to be running VL5.8 SOHO and VL5.9 now. I am not in any great rush for VL6. I fail to understand this incredible desire to always be releasing new versions. I actually can't believe we're discussing this only a few days after the release of VL5.9 Huh
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nubcnubdo
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2007, 09:03:40 am »

Despite the fact that the long cycle isnt very exciting, I like the one-year release schedule. Take Mint: just when I get used to a release, out comes a new one, it's very disconcerting. The regularity, the stability, the slow steady progress, the quiet excellence are what makes VL an outstanding distro. Unfortunately, those qualities don't excite. It would be nice to do something unique and novel to bring attention to VL. VL just works, and works great, but that doesn't make headlines.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 10:23:17 am by nubcnubdo » Logged
uelsk8s
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« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2007, 09:28:25 am »

It is very frustrating feeling like you are part of the best OS and wondering why the rest of the world doesn't know about it.
there are some important things that need to be worked out, and I think the community here need to influence them as much as possible.
1)The costs of running VL are increasing and the cd sales are shrinking.
   what are your ideas that can help VL make money (and still remain free)?
2)We feel we are suffering from lack of developers.
  how can we attract developers (or possibly turn more users into devs)?
3)The Vectorlinux.com website doesnt say "I need to download VL and give it a try"
  what can we do to the website to make people want to try VL and join our community?
4) Feel free to add to my questions  Smiley

This is just an idea floating around my brain. let me know what you think of it. 

I would like to see us move to a monthly release schedule.
5.9.1 would be released at the end of january, 5.9.2 the end of February and so on.
they would be released as downloadable  ISO's delta's and would be the same as doing a slapt-get --upgrade using only the patches repo.
they would stop around Sept, or Oct when the first Beta of the next version would be released.

Thanks,
Uelsk8s
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M0E-lnx
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« Reply #36 on: December 27, 2007, 09:48:41 am »

I like the idea of more frequent releases, however, I dont feel we have the man power to do it... I mean... not to put the ISO out, but what I really mean is, I dont think that's enough time to test a whole lot in a month's period.

I like the idea of being able to do a slapt-get --upgrade using the patches repo... I think that would be nice.
Have to agree with the website point.
I say add some nice screen shots (or links to them).
Find or make a system performance comparison ( VL -vs- Another distro)
I'm not much of a sales man, but that's exactly what we need... a website that can sell VL.
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Dweeberkitty
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« Reply #37 on: December 27, 2007, 09:59:17 am »

I would like to see us move to a monthly release schedule.
5.9.1 would be released at the end of january, 5.9.2 the end of February and so on.
they would be released as downloadable  ISO's delta's and would be the same as doing a slapt-get --upgrade using only the patches repo.
they would stop around Sept, or Oct when the first Beta of the next version would be released.

Cool, I like that idea! But, there's just a few things that would have to be worked out. Are there enough devs to release both STD and SOHO at the end of each month? What about when a huge upgrade comes along (Slackware 13 etc...)? I'm sure some people would object because it doesn't follow the Slackware, "It's ready when it's ready." However, to ensure that it IS ready at the end of each month, the devs would have to control the number of things that change each release. Other than that, I really like the idea!
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easuter
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« Reply #38 on: December 27, 2007, 10:03:44 am »

Dunno if a monthly release would be good...
We started working on VL 5.8.6 and it got dropped at beta stage because the work on 5.8 SOHO and on 5.9 was drawing too many resources....

On the money side of things, how about a fund-raiser?
We set a goal for the amount of money we need to raise, and a list of what its needed for.
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rbistolfi
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« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2007, 10:21:34 am »

It is very frustrating feeling like you are part of the best OS and wondering why the rest of the world doesn't know about it.
there are some important things that need to be worked out, and I think the community here need to influence them as much as possible

We understand the frustration and I personally share it, as a user who see the work and effort of the devs.
 
Quote
1)The costs of running VL are increasing and the cd sales are shrinking.
   what are your ideas that can help VL make money (and still remain free)?

I think Deluxe is not being promoted enough. It needs more exposure, and I like the idea of offering related services. A website makeover should include more exposure for deluxe.

Quote
2)We feel we are suffering from lack of developers.
  how can we attract developers (or possibly turn more users into devs)?

Releasing vl especific documentation for developers could be a good idea. I think newcomers whiling to help couldn't know where to start. What is needed and which skills are needed is not clear. The first step imho, is to delegate minor tasks, as menu configuration for the diff desktops, and perhaps the hole SKEL is the next step. Some guidelines and a thread for collaborative work, as the current website thread where the ideas are being exposed, could be good. I cant believe Vec was being the webmaster, for example. That is something the community, or a team as Vec suggested once, could do.

Quote
3)The Vectorlinux.com website doesnt say "I need to download VL and give it a try"
  what can we do to the website to make people want to try VL and join our community?

Blurymind took the iniciative already, but the thread is not much alive now.

Quote
I would like to see us move to a monthly release schedule.
5.9.1 would be released at the end of january, 5.9.2 the end of February and so on.
they would be released as downloadable  ISO's delta's and would be the same as doing a slapt-get --upgrade using only the patches repo.

I think that is a good idea. Of course they will be not major upgrades, but Mike made an excellent point about DW. Maybe adding an entry in vasm with the necessary commands to upgrade is better than gslapt. In that way we could be sure only the patches repo is enabled.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 10:23:15 am by rbistolfi » Logged

"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
exeterdad
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« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2007, 12:09:24 pm »

Quote
Maybe adding an entry in vasm with the necessary commands to upgrade is better than gslapt. In that way we could be sure only the patches repo is enabled.
Oooooooh!  I like that.  Or something like it anyway.  Forcing Gslapt to only pay attention to one repo (patches) for major upgrades would be a pain, and most likely have to be done in the C sources. 

Not long ago I was toying with an idea for a bash script that would run in the background.  It would check a repo of choice every couple hours or whatever.   Then it could use zenity dialogs, or the alert in the system tray letting the user know there is something new for them to consider.  Adding another function, or helper script to do a upgrade from patches using tools that are already included in VL wouldn't be that hard.

Should I put more though into this?  Would it be useful?

Vec shaking the branches a bit sure brought a ton of ideas out didn't it?  Cheesy
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uelsk8s
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« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2007, 12:44:07 pm »

exeterdad,
we can manipulate the slapt-getrc to show only 1 repo. it is currently being done in the last MMBD.

for update notification there is already this http://software.jaos.org/#slapt-update-notifier
slapt-update-notifier is a daemon which notifies about package updates available via slapt-get and gslapt. It is modeled after the Ubuntu update-notifier. slapt-update-notifier places an icon in the user's notification area when updates are available. Clicking the icon starts upgrading with gslapt.

Vec had to get us thinking somehow  LOL
« Last Edit: December 27, 2007, 01:52:02 pm by uelsk8s » Logged
exeterdad
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« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2007, 01:48:52 pm »

Cool about the slapt-update-notifier. No sense in re inventing the wheel.  I guess I'm not getting how showing one repo in the slapt-getrc is going to let people use slapt-get or gslapt get packages out of extra or testing though? It's probably something trivial that's gonna make me feel like a bonehead right?  Cheesy
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uelsk8s
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« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2007, 01:58:38 pm »

Cool about the slapt-update-notifier. No sense in re inventing the wheel.  I guess I'm not getting how showing one repo in the slapt-getrc is going to let people use slapt-get or gslapt get packages out of extra or testing though? It's probably something trivial that's gonna make me feel like a bonehead right?  Cheesy

The way i think it would be doe is you have a script called update or something. it replaces the users slapt-getrc with one that has only patches enabled then runs slapt-get --update and slapt-get --upgrade then replaces the users slapt-getrc.
I am pretty sure thats how its done in MMBD.
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exeterdad
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« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2007, 02:04:08 pm »

I feel better that it wasn't a obvious setting or something.  Very clever.
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