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Author Topic: VL 6.0 schedule  (Read 16208 times)
jduped
Vectorite
***
Posts: 127


Don't Worry, Be Happy


« Reply #60 on: December 31, 2007, 12:42:01 am »

I know its been said a few times in this thread, The reason I picked Vector was because of its Slackware roots.  If we don't get slack, we get nothing... Tongue

Any who, I was wondering what I could learn to make myself a viable contributor to Vector, I have lots of IT experience, not so much programing...but If some one wants to point me into something to learn and then come back to offer my assistance, I'd be all for it.

I'm going to be in school (apprentice electrician) for a few months and I should still have a decent amount of spare time...I really enjoy vector and would be willing to give that time up for the cause.
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exeterdad
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2046



« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2007, 04:41:17 am »

We can ALWAYS use packagers.  Smiley  It's a good way to get your feet wet and be valuable immediately. We only have a handful of packagers for all that is out there.  And you may think of interesting apps we haven't even heard of yet.
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jduped
Vectorite
***
Posts: 127


Don't Worry, Be Happy


« Reply #62 on: December 31, 2007, 05:07:52 am »

I made taught myself how to make tgz packages...I'm not quite sure what I need to do to make the vector specific ones...my current install of vector is pooched, I'm using the windows partition currently, and I finally caved and ordered a new video card for my desktop, so I won't be reloading it till I get that going...

I am also in the process of switching my server to a linux box, and I want to do it with vector I'm just still planning out the logistics...the server has just been cut, and I'm ready for an os...just pondering what would be the easiest to use...
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Kocil
Member
*
Posts: 96

Eko M. Budi


« Reply #63 on: December 31, 2007, 02:04:59 pm »

I am going to add this as a side note. Would moving to debian sid as a base vs slackware help in terms of getting more developers? accomplishing the goals we have set (gui installer etc) move up our popularity in distro rankings etc etc. Just a wild thought see what you guys think?

vec

Well, I've being assigned as the head of IGOS Center (Indonesia, go open source) for about 2 months.
(The web site is here www.igoscenter.org, but it is in Indonesian language. Sorry)

During that short periode,
the rough estimation shows that more than 50% of my technical support volunters are UBUNTU people.
Moreover, more than 80% of the CD / DVD sales has being UBUNTU.
At my outlet, 8 out of 10 computers are installed with UBUNTU.


Still, me myself and one of the most skilled technician have not swayed.
Slackware is the most STABLE and PURE distro.

At least, we still help people no matter what distro he/she is using
in Slackware ways ... go CLI  Grin


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LLL
Global Moderator
Vectorite
*****
Posts: 263


The sun is shining...


« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2008, 04:55:46 pm »

Well, I've being assigned as the head of IGOS Center (Indonesia, go open source) for about 2 months.
(The web site is here www.igoscenter.org, but it is in Indonesian language. Sorry)

--> Also available in English: http://www.igoscenter.org/index.php?newlang=english

Though I feel like a wanker for throwing in $.02 after a long absence (new job), here it is - grab a penny from the dish if you feel you need change:

1) Release timing:
- A solid product with significant improvements is worth waiting for.
- STD at Jan-1, followed by SOHO June-1, followed by STD Jan-1, etc. would be a nice balance.
- Slower release may be not as popular with some tinker-happy Linux fans (though maybe it is).
- What do other big players do? Apple for instance? (We all know what Windows does, releasing alphas to the public).

2) Website is in need of work. This point has been made in the past.
- Some other GNU products have had their sites re-done with the "Try Me" pizzazz and "I'm Legit" professionalism that people speak of.
- http://gimp.org/ and http://www.flock.com/ for example.
- www.vectorlinux.com could use a facelift, simplification (navigation options, etc.) and depth of content, remembering that a picture speaks a thousand words.
- And also: I think copy should be written by a non-dev, or a dev that remembers what it's like to have the understanding of a newbie again. I remember seeing "x86 platform" and thinking "Huh?", despite being a Winblows power-user.

NOTE THAT SITE HAS HAD AN UPDATE, seemingly as I typed this!!! Wink
Improved for sure, but still a ways to go. If web-re-writes are in order, shout. I'll do my best to help out. (Come to think of it, I did a rewrite of Club Vec over a year ago, but it never made it online.)

Had a chance to try 5.9 this weekend - my first tinker in months - and greatly enjoyed, though my 5.8 install is still far too functional to give up yet!

Thanks to all for their dedication to creating a phenomenal OS. Though my forum-time has dwindled hugely, I'm still VL all the way - nothing comes close to matching it.

All the best,

LLL
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Lost & Lovin' Linux...living on:
VectorLinux 6.0 with XFCE on Thinkpad T43p (2.13 GHz | 2GB | 60GB)
toothandnail
Tester
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2527


« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2008, 12:41:54 am »

As a relative newcomer to Vector (I tried it a couple of years ago, didn't like it much at the time, moved on, came back recently and find it much more to my taste now), the thing I find most annoying is the difficulty in finding new or updated packages.

Maybe I'm missing something, but slapt-get and Gslapt don't come close to meeting my needs. I've tried various 'views'. but find it very difficult to find updates to existing packages, other than by searching (which means I need to have some idea of which packages have been updated). There also seems to be no easy way of finding packages that have been newly added to the repositories.

While the Zenwalk Netpkg is a long way from perfect, it gives me a quick way of finding updated packages, an easy way of listing new or uninstalled packages, plus it shows me what category each package comes from.

As one effort to get round the problem, I installed the slapt-update-notifier, but so far I've failed to get it to work. There are no indications in the docs how it should be started. Attempting to start it from the command line gets me an error:

Code:
libnotify-Message: Unable to get session bus: Did not receive a reply.
Possible causes include: the remote application did not send a reply,
the message bus security policy blocked the reply, the reply timeout
expired, or the network connection was broken.

I am finding 5.9 stable, fast and well put together (though I find it strange that Gimp was installed through the whole beta cycle but doesn't seem to have made it to the final release). In a number of respects, it meet my needs better than Zenwalk (support for my wireless card out of the box, support for HPFS, etc.), but for me, the biggest area for improvement would be in package handling. I would hope that this area is given priority in development for the 6.x series..

paul
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Triarius Fidelis
Vecteloper
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2399


Domine, exaudi vocem meam


WWW
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2008, 01:39:52 am »

Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

(JMO)
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"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
The Headacher
Louder than you
Global Moderator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 1551


I like the bass to go BOOM!


WWW
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2008, 01:42:10 am »

Quote from: L3
- STD at Jan-1, followed by SOHO June-1, followed by STD Jan-1, etc. would be a nice balance.
I still prefer a release when ready. No need to rush things. Rushing leads to poor products.

Quote from: L3
- Slower release may be not as popular with some tinker-happy Linux fans (though maybe it is).
Now who needs to use it? Others, or people who have been using it for a long time? Releasing more often just to have a new release more often is just fooling yourself (and perhaps a few distro hoppers, but they'll hop along anyways), at the cost of your own free time. I STILL don't understand why people keep trying to change the near-perfect (for my uses) VL into something of an abberation. Sure, it's OK to hope to attract those illusive users, but let's not forget there are already lot's of 'm that like VL as is.
Quote from: L3
I'm still VL all the way - nothing comes close to matching it.
Agreed Wink.

Quote from: toothandnail
the thing I find most annoying is the difficulty in finding new or updated packages.
Since VL 5.9 is new, there still aren't as much packages available as we'd like, but then again only infinite will do Undecided. The update function in gslapt has been disabled on purpose. People kept running into trouble when blindly upgrading.

Quote
(though I find it strange that Gimp was installed through the whole beta cycle but doesn't seem to have made it to the final release).
Agreed, that one was a real sloppy mistake IMO. It was probably done to free some space on the iso for something else, but I can't imagine what that might be.
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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
toothandnail
Tester
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2527


« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2008, 01:56:40 am »

Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

 Grin Well, yes and no. In many instances, updates are security related (look at all the recent Firefox/Seamonkey updates), in which case they're anything but frivolous.

In other areas, possibly. But if you don't try the latest and greatest, how will anything ever get developed?  Grin

I've been building Zenwalk packages for a while, and intend to do the same with Vector once I work out the rules. So I can create many of my own updates. In fact I'm using a few of my Zenwalk packages on Vector without problems.

But that doesn't mitigate the fact that handling of updates (whether security related or just the latest thing which has to be had..) is one of Vectors weakest points.

Quote
(JMO)

And IMHO as well...  Grin

paul
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toothandnail
Tester
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2527


« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2008, 02:17:06 am »


Quote from: toothandnail
the thing I find most annoying is the difficulty in finding new or updated packages.
Since VL 5.9 is new, there still aren't as much packages available as we'd like, but then again only infinite will do Undecided. The update function in gslapt has been disabled on purpose. People kept running into trouble when blindly upgrading.

 Cool Of course only infinite will do... Seriously, I can well understand that there aren't too many packages migrated to 5.9, and that doesn't worry me a great deal. What I do find off-putting is the fact that no matter what I try, Gslapt will show a confusing array of installed plus older plus newer packages. Maybe I've been using Netpkg for too long, but IMHO, it does a much better job of showing users what is available, and what has been updated or downgraded.

In many ways I'm glad the update function in Gslapt has been disabled (though it would be better if the toolbar could be updated to reflect that, rather than having a bubble message telling users when they try to use the function). I found it less than useful - while it would show the updates in a reasonably coherent form, it didn't give me any ability to select which updates to apply - it was always pretty much all or nothing. Poor design, IMHO.

I would like to see Vector have a simple way for users to see what packages have been updated or are newly added to the repos, and a simple way of selecting those they want. At present, it doesn't seem to have anything that does that.

Quote
Quote
(though I find it strange that Gimp was installed through the whole beta cycle but doesn't seem to have made it to the final release).
Agreed, that one was a real sloppy mistake IMO. It was probably done to free some space on the iso for something else, but I can't imagine what that might be.

 Grin I'm glad I'm not the only one then. 5.9 is one of the few full featured distros that doesn't include Gimp as standard. And its a fair size download for those who are limited to slow internet connections, so it does seem a pity that it isn't included.

Something else that needs attention before 6.x comes out is the way Mplayer is handled. In 5.9 it has been set as an optional item. Since I'm not exactly fond of it, I didn't bother installing it during the 5.9 betas. But, since the streaming media support for web browsers (well, Seamonkey at least, and I assume others) uses the Mplayer plugins, it should not be an optional install. The plugins depend on the base package being installed, or they don't work. Well, that's my experience anyway...

Also, if Mplayer is to be an optional install, the multimedia entries in Settings > Removable drives and media need to be modified - currently Mplayer is specified as the handler for DVDs. Not only is that questionable since the version of Mplayer installed doesn't handle DVD menus, its pretty useless if a user has opted not to install Mplayer in the first place.

paul.
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Triarius Fidelis
Vecteloper
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2399


Domine, exaudi vocem meam


WWW
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2008, 02:55:03 am »

Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

 Grin Well, yes and no. In many instances, updates are security related (look at all the recent Firefox/Seamonkey updates), in which case they're anything but frivolous.

I can't speak for everyone, but I have never been h4x0r3d with any Gecko browser. Firefox crashes of its own accord ... I consider that whole family of software a virus unto itself. Tongue
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"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
toothandnail
Tester
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2527


« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2008, 03:34:06 am »

Updates are kind of frivolous unless there is a specific set of features you're looking for in a new release.

 Grin Well, yes and no. In many instances, updates are security related (look at all the recent Firefox/Seamonkey updates), in which case they're anything but frivolous.

I can't speak for everyone, but I have never been h4x0r3d with any Gecko browser. Firefox crashes of its own accord ... I consider that whole family of software a virus unto itself. Tongue

Neither have I. However, anyone handling even vaguely sensitive data via the web is not likely to want to take the chance. And the Mozilla family are a long way from the only things that need security related updates.

I try to avoid Firefox (never found it all that stable, and I don't like the way it has been dumbed down), but I can't say I've had any stabilty issues with Seamonkey - and that's on three different platforms - Linux, OS/2 and (yuck) XP.

paul
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Triarius Fidelis
Vecteloper
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2399


Domine, exaudi vocem meam


WWW
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2008, 03:49:01 am »

Thanks for the advice. Smiley
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"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
GrannyGeek
Packager
Vectorian
****
Posts: 2567


« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2008, 10:24:13 pm »

What I do find off-putting is the fact that no matter what I try, Gslapt will show a confusing array of installed plus older plus newer packages. Maybe I've been using Netpkg for too long, but IMHO, it does a much better job of showing users what is available, and what has been updated or downgraded.

In many ways I'm glad the update function in Gslapt has been disabled (though it would be better if the toolbar could be updated to reflect that, rather than having a bubble message telling users when they try to use the function). I found it less than useful - while it would show the updates in a reasonably coherent form, it didn't give me any ability to select which updates to apply - it was always pretty much all or nothing. Poor design, IMHO.

I would like to see Vector have a simple way for users to see what packages have been updated or are newly added to the repos, and a simple way of selecting those they want. At present, it doesn't seem to have anything that does that.

I'm not glad at all that the Mark All Upgrades and View Marked have been disabled. This is nannyism at its worst. I *like* to be able to see what upgrades are available in a way that's less laborious than going through the whole lengthy list of packages. Marking upgrades and viewing what's marked was a convenient way to do this. Even more convenient would be to list just the upgrades without marking them. Then have a View Available Upgrades option, leaving it to the user to mark the upgrades to install.

I'm not so foolish as to install all the upgrades. Usually, I don't install any of them. But I like to see what's available. I don't think every user should be deprived of a useful feature just because some people rush in where angels fear to tread. Why not a warning message--"DON'T upgrade a package just because an upgrade is available"--and a change in defaults so we can see just the upgrades if we so choose?

I agree that Gimp should have been included. However, it is included in 5.9 Deluxe, so maybe this is a way to give a gentle nudge to people to PAY UP so VL can continue to get better and better. Wink

In the past, I have either bought the Deluxe CD or made a donation equal to the price of the Deluxe CD. This time I bought the Deluxe CD as soon as I knew about it because you get enhanced content and the default wallpaper is really nice.
--GrannyGeek
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Registered Linux User #397786

Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
no2thesame
Packager
Vectorite
****
Posts: 136


« Reply #74 on: January 09, 2008, 02:01:47 am »

Wow, I'm gone a week and miss a lot!
After 2 weeks, it's a different forum to the sleepy one I left! Vec's sense of humour is alarming.

It is very frustrating feeling like you are part of the best OS and wondering why the rest of the world doesn't know about it.
My friends at the LUGs seem glued to their Ubuntu and Mepis, although at my suggestion we did give Vector disks away for Software Freedom Day, for people with slower machines.

Quote
there are some important things that need to be worked out, and I think the community here need to influence them as much as possible.
1)The costs of running VL are increasing and the cd sales are shrinking.
   what are your ideas that can help VL make money (and still remain free)?
I like the idea of a pay-only SOHO-Deluxe version. But the website needs to be reworked as well to give the home page a more professional look. The new home page is an improvement, but is actually the "Latest News" page.

We should emphasise the community as well. I like this site http://www.bhpbilliton.com.au/bb/home.jsp Even though they are a mining company (no connection with me) there are photos of people. So I think some posed professional photos of business people being helped by a smiling 'Vector community expert' would be good. (Or drive people away)
Photos of smiling kids would be good too. 

I know it is only minor but we have to present a much more human face as the Vector community is a real asset.

Reading this thread I can't help wondering, how many people actually do use Vector for what it's best for? (I refer here too the SOHO edition.) There is no real serious other distro that advertises itself as focused on the small office, home office segment of the market AFAIK.
I agree wholeheartedly, it should be backed up with some sort of support, even if it is just more detailed documentation or how-tos.  I don't mind putting some simpler ones together. I have to keep detailed notes of any changes I make with each install, so I remember.

We can ALWAYS use packagers.  Smiley  It's a good way to get your feet wet and be valuable immediately. We only have a handful of packagers for all that is out there.  And you may think of interesting apps we haven't even heard of yet.
If someone could walk me through for the first time, I would gladly make the Bibletime package for future versions.
Don't think I'll ever make a dev though.

no2
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