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Author Topic: Linux is too hard  (Read 2996 times)
roalush
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Posts: 7


« on: January 04, 2008, 04:53:43 am »

I just installed Vector Linux and this is the first time I use a Linux OS.

In the 10 days I'm using I haven't managed to do much.

I still don't have permission to save files on my Hard Drive (shouldn't this be default?) and  I don't know how to fix. I've learned that in order setup my language support I need to download 7 different files from 7 different locations and run each of them separately in the terminal (back to DOS days??? you need to run a script for every change you make - who has the time?). My DVD-ROM is not working at all.

what happened to user friendly?

I'm just about ready to give up.

You can say a lot of bad things about Windows, but at least they know how to make it easy to use - you run a exe and in a few seconds you have everything up and running.
 
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nightflier
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 4026



« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2008, 05:01:29 am »

What language do you want to use?

Where are you trying to save these files?

Do you understand the "root" account?

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roalush
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Posts: 7


« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2008, 05:14:02 am »

I don't know.

I open a terminal, log in as root, make changes but when I reboot I see that everything stays the same.
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exeterdad
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2046



« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2008, 05:15:53 am »

Quote
I still don't have permission to save files on my Hard Drive (shouldn't this be default?)
Default?  No way.  You can save files all you like in your home directory.  But anywhere else you are prevented unless you do so as root, or root has given your user permission to do so.  This is very safe practice.  Linux/Unix are designed for multiuser.  It trys very hard to prevent one user from making a mistake that takes down the system.

Linux assumes that root knows what he/she is doing.  Root is God according to Linux.  Root can delete every single file, including system files with one command and Linux won't complain or ask questions.  Giving a user that kind of power is a bit scary don't you think?  Wink

Give Linux a chance.  If Linux was the first operating system you had ever used, it would be a piece of cake.  Retraining your brain to compute differently then you have for all your computing life is a bit confusing at first.  But you honestly will agree that you can be productive and computing makes more sense.

I do have to agree with you that Linux can be frustrating, challenging or even impossible when it comes to running hardware.  It's still a windows world, it's getting a bit better, but it's rare that hardware manufactures create drivers that run on Linux.  It's up to the Linux users that have a interest in writing drivers, to do it for themselves and release it.

So hang on to your VL install.  Run Windows while pressed for time and need to be productive in a comfortable enviorment.  But keep dabbling with VL or whatever flavor of Linux that works for you.  You'll find yourself becoming less MS dependent, and possibly even MS free.  You'll be surprised to know that many hard core Linux users aren't completely MS free as they just can not live without certain applications that only run with Windows.

Good luck, have fun and ask ton's of questions.  We were all in your shoes at one time  Smiley
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roalush
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Posts: 7


« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2008, 05:37:12 am »

Thanks for the kind words,
I'll give it a chance.

It just seems to me that one needs to have extensive technical knowledge in order to use Linux.

Open source should be for everyone.
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Triarius Fidelis
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Domine, exaudi vocem meam


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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2008, 05:51:42 am »

Thanks for the kind words,
I'll give it a chance.

It just seems to me that one needs to have extensive technical knowledge in order to use Linux.

Open source should be for everyone.

To be fair, we are technically somewhat challenging for new users because of our minimalism, but socially very newbie-friendly. Some other dists, such as Ubuntu, try to emulate mainstream user interfaces more closely, but that is not our most important goal.

Feel free to ask questions anyway.
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"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
exeterdad
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2046



« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2008, 05:58:26 am »

Quote
It just seems to me that oIt just seems to me that one needs to have extensive technical knowledge in order to use Linux.ne needs to have extensive technical knowledge in order to use Linux.
Yes...  and no.
It depends on your choices.  We have one guy (I think kidd is a guy), who is a command line junkie.  He pretty much lives to use Linux in a way that would be too much work in my book.  But it gives him a rush, and he is productive while doing it, so hat's off to him and others like him.

You'll find that you can pretty much fulfill all you common everyday needs with mouseclicks with Linux.  But much like Dos and Windows...  some things are better (or even swifter) handled at the command line.  Linux and Windows are like comparing apples and oranges.  There is only one way to Windows.  Everything is the same, so learning how to run Windows is pretty easy as everyone has the same Windows and the information is out there.  But Linux is much broader.  Unless everyone uses the same install CD (like Windows) and doesn't change a single thing (like windows), and chooses to have the same desktop (like Windows), finding the EXACT answer to your every question is very tricky because the users choices, or preferences are unlimited (unlike Windows).

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tomh38
Vectorian
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Posts: 913



« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 06:36:52 am »

I have a few things to add for roalush:

1.  It's true that some things in the Unix/Linux world are done most effectively through the command line, but it's not DOS.  DOS was/is a very poor command line OS with severe limitations compared to the GNU/Linux command line.

2.  Try not to be overwhelmed by all the things there are to learn about using Linux.  Focus on a particular goal that you want to achieve; if you need help, ask here in the forums.  In my experience people here are very helpful.

3.  You may find that once you have a grasp of "the Unix way" versus "the Windows way," a lot of things will become easier very quickly.  That has been my experience.
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
saulgoode
Vectorite
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Posts: 340



« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2008, 07:36:01 am »

I open a terminal, log in as root, make changes but when I reboot I see that everything stays the same.


Are you using a LIVE CD? LIVE CDs intentionally avoid modifying your system unless you take special steps to permit it. Personally, I am not that big a fan of LIVE CDs for trying out Linux; it is easier to learn things from a full install. Perhaps if you share some of the details of what system you are using, we can help you through your difficulties.



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A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
M0E-lnx
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 3187



« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2008, 07:50:35 am »

from reading the first posts here it seems he is in fact running a live cd
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hata_ph
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Posts: 3258


-- Just being myself --


« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2008, 08:02:03 am »

Quote
I still don't have permission to save files on my Hard Drive (shouldn't this be default?) and  I don't know how to fix. I've learned that in order setup my language support I need to download 7 different files from 7 different locations and run each of them separately in the terminal (back to DOS days??? you need to run a script for every change you make - who has the time?). My DVD-ROM is not working at all.

Think of this as LUA (Limited User Account) in windows. But I know not all ppls using windows is practicing this security feature. Root (Linux) and Administrator (Windows) help to maintain the system. Running as root or administrator all the time is a bad habit as it give full access to the system.

As you are new to Linux (same as me), if you encounter any question or problem feel free to ask for advise. It take time to learn as same as everything in life. Smiley
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Triarius Fidelis
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2399


Domine, exaudi vocem meam


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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2008, 08:23:59 am »

As you are new to Linux (same as me), if you encounter any question or problem feel free to ask for advise. It take time to learn as same as everything in life. Smiley

Arguably, the most worthwhile goals are the ones that are most difficult to attain. But ... maybe that's only because the grass looks greener on the other side.
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"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
Xeon
Vectorite
***
Posts: 115


« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2008, 09:17:18 am »

Hey roalush, welcome to linux Smiley
I made the step myself two years ago and I picked suse. That went into a sisser since i couldn't manage linux at all and wrapping everything into GUI makes things needless complicated.

My second choice was vector and although things went a bit rough and hard in the beginning, things started work out soon. I am happy I didn't give up since it learned me how to use linux and not how to find the proper GUI. It boosted my computer experience a lot. Vector is like the perfect mix. The harder tasks for system managment are wrapped into VASM and I am happy they are since its a great help, the easier part is more or less your domain. (though I made it harder for myself by not using slapt-get (= packet manager for easy install of software) and doing all from scratch, i'd not recommend that.) The forums and especially google help a lot when running into errors and weirdness. 
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BlueMage
Vectorite
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Posts: 274



« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2008, 02:52:31 am »

Arguably, the most worthwhile goals are the ones that are most difficult to attain. But ... maybe that's only because the grass looks greener on the other side.

I love you.  In a platonic, non-homosexual way.  Because I've been saying that (or something similar) for quite some time - the difficult tasks in life are the ones most worth doing.

To roalush:  Stick with it mate.  I know it's hard at first (especially when hardware is being ornery and uncooperative) but that's half the fun of linux - making your computer uniquely your own.  Each computer has its own personality.  You can get two systems, with exactly the same hardware, the same software ... and yet, there will still be subtle differences.

That's the fun - determining your computer's unique personality.  And yes, it will be hard.  That's the fun part though Wink
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Acer Laptop:  Vector 5.8 SOHO Final & Windows XP Professional & USB (still alive!)
Compaq POS (almost dead): Vector 5.9 Light Beta 5
Quad-core BEAST: Win 7 Ultimate 64-bit & Vector 5.9 64-bit beta-2
Old 500MHz media box:  Vector 5.8 SOHO Final (dead)
701 EeePC:  Puppeee (based on Puppy 4.01)
Triarius Fidelis
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2399


Domine, exaudi vocem meam


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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2008, 04:00:14 am »

I love you.  In a platonic, non-homosexual way.

I more than reciprocate!
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"Leatherface, you BITCH! Ho Chi Minh, hah hah hah!"

Formerly known as "Epic Fail Guy" and "Döden" in recent months
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