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Author Topic: Crazy idea / suggestion  (Read 13474 times)
uelsk8s
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« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2008, 06:35:56 pm »

Cool spreadsheet. I could use something like that for the MMBD. How did you make it? Do you have scripts?
make an account at numsum.com and go from there
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The Headacher
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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2008, 02:24:35 am »

Looks like we'll end up with a lot of different versions:

VL "light?"
VL standard
VL standard Live
VL64 standard
VL SOHO
VL SOHO Live
VL64 SOHO
(several others have been suggested in the past)

So, the question is: Do you think there is enough manpower to test and release all of these? I don't think so, perhaps we should scratch some of these, and focus on a few 'core' products (IMO these should be VL standard and SOHO). All the rest is nice and funny, but just niches. We can't and shouldn't make a distro for every niche.

Other distro's are much better at making Live versions. The 64 bit VL so far doesn't seem any faster or better than the normal version on my 64 bit box. Perhaps if we just "scrap" those 64 bit and live versions we can focus on this "light" version, and make 3 quality releases, instead of trying to build and maintain 7 or more different versions, which is virtually impossible. It will take some weight of Uelsk8s' shoulders (though he probably enjoys doing what he does), and will make things less confusing: If you want VL, get the install cd and install, rather than trying a livecd, and attempt installing from it, ending up with a system that's just different enough from the non-live version to run into trouble. 
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Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
Witek Mozga
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2008, 03:02:14 am »

perhaps we should scratch some of these, and focus on a few 'core' products (IMO these should be VL standard and SOHO). [...] If you want VL, get the install cd and install, rather than trying a livecd, and attempt installing from it

Agreed Smiley Focus is necessary.
Live version can be dropped, especially when non-live ones install very fast, so if you want to test, there`s no problem
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nightflier
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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2008, 05:28:05 am »

While we're brainstorming: I'd vote for making VL Standard lighter. Drop XFCE in favor of Fluxbox. Make SOHO the full-featured, heavy version (but still fast in it's class).

uelsk8s should be free to make whatever he wants in Live. I personally do use Live discs for troubleshooting, testing and repair. No need for hard drive install.

As pointed out, manpower is a major concern. I'd say: keep the developers happy. Allow them to do what they enjoy and do best. Rather than trying to conquer the world and convert the masses, let the volunteers enjoy what they are doing. I'm sure they will listen to suggestions and try to please as many as they can.
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Triarius Fidelis
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Domine, exaudi vocem meam


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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2008, 08:57:48 am »

Looks like we'll end up with a lot of different versions:

VL "light?"
VL standard
VL standard Live
VL64 standard
VL SOHO
VL SOHO Live
VL64 SOHO
(several others have been suggested in the past)

So, the question is: Do you think there is enough manpower to test and release all of these? I don't think so, perhaps we should scratch some of these, and focus on a few 'core' products (IMO these should be VL standard and SOHO). All the rest is nice and funny, but just niches. We can't and shouldn't make a distro for every niche.

AGREED WHOLEHEARTEDLY
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nubcnubdo
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Posts: 675


« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2008, 09:12:55 am »

We should retain VL Std LiveCD for its demonstration purposes and lower hardware requirements.

VL Std
VL Std LiveCD
VL SOHO

I would also favor VL Lite/Core if feasible. Or else, at least, provide a detailed howto for paring down VL Std for a frugal install. I think we should carefully define our objectives in such a project as VL Lite/Core/Barebones, with an awareness that there are already several excellent distros that specialize in being small and efficient.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 07:14:58 pm by nubcnubdo » Logged
newt
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2008, 09:18:45 am »

In my mind, headachers 7 possibilities break down like this: (I could be 180° off base here; just how _I_ invision the process)

--------------------------------------------------

VL Light/Core requires all dev man power and is the engine of VL.  Time intensive, heavy dev power.

VL Standard depends on Core; adds dev power to make it "STD"; is the rest of the economy car.  Still time intensive but not as much as Core; mod-heavy dev power.

VL SOHO depends on Core (maybe STD too) PLUS adds dev power to make it "SOHO"; is the rest of the full-equipped, luxury car.  Still time intensive but not as much as Core+STD; mod-heavy dev power.

-------Up to this point, theorhetically, no additional dev power required (of course more is better)--------
-------Biggest difference is the intermediate stage between of breaking out Light/Core-------

VL Live STD & SOHO, from what I gather, is one person's work.  Makes the two "full car" releases into live releases.  Time intensive; moderate dev power.

-------Up to this point, these are ALREADY being done; that's 5 of 7 possibilities---------

VL64 STD & SOHO starts the entire, aforementioned process again from the beginning.  New core, new STD, new SOHO; new cars with different engines.  A culmination of all previous time intensivity and dev power.  Of course the logistics of putting it all together is easier, but the full effort is still required.

-------IMHO, VL64 seems like it that one "straw" Wink---------

=-=-=---=-=-=-

I like nightfliers suggestion of re-lightening STD.  Fluxbox, icewm, or anything of that magnitude would be great; don't make me pick just force one on me and I'll learn to use it Grin.  Keep it lean; keep it light; make it small; make it scream.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 09:20:16 am by newtor » Logged
easuter
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2008, 10:28:57 am »

Quote
-------IMHO, VL64 seems like it that one "straw"  Wink---------

Yeah....my mind went to VL64 right away...but some think we need a 64bit distro to be taken seriously  Roll Eyes
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nubcnubdo
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Posts: 675


« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2008, 10:47:13 am »

Quote
we need a 64bit distro to be taken seriously

I dont know about "serious" but DW ranks us 23rd, for what that's worth. When we get more users and developers we can expand, take on new responsibilities, develop community editions. Obviously, there's a shortage of users and devs right now.

To the end of presenting a distro for the most users, I say, focus on the quality of the select VL versions that we are known for, namely, Standard and SOHO. If we are deciding between a wide variety of versions and just a few select versions, I recommend the latter for the purpose of reaching the most users. (If, on the other hand, we just want to accommodate our own members in their technological pursuits, then maybe a wide variety is the way to go.)

Furthermore, too many choices might confound some new users. It's enough of a quandry to choose VL from among 400 distros, but then to present 6 or 7 more choices of VL versions, well, that would take some figuring.

KISS
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 11:53:47 am by nubcnubdo » Logged
uelsk8s
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« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2008, 12:22:59 pm »

I have to say the first time I read this thread It bothered me. I though with standard we had the perfect mix that would cover most people. If you want a small install you can just install the required packages removing the checks for the optional ones then slapt-get Xorg and the WM you would like or install just the optional X11 bulk and remove the packages you dont want.

After thinking more about it I dont think it would be a bad idea. It would save people from having to 700mb when they only needed 300-400. It would also give us a smaller cleaner base to build upon.
I think as long as we have someone that can step in and manage package lists and such, we can make more versions without problems.

I think we have decided that after 5.9 SOHO as you know it will not be made anymore, instead it will be merged with the deluxe version.
So if we have someone (or a group) that would step up and help us manage things we would be able to produce a VL-LITE along with the
Standard and SOHO-Deluxe versions we have planned.

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Witek Mozga
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« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2008, 01:20:03 pm »

VL Light/Core
VL Standard depends on Core;
VL SOHO depends on Core (maybe STD too)

If those three options could be merged into one CD that would make sense. A user could choose how much expanded system he wants during install. Light/Core would be the install base and Standard or SOHO would be options that require Light/Core base + some additional packages.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 01:51:49 pm by wm » Logged

The Headacher
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« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2008, 01:35:30 pm »

Quote
I think we have decided that after 5.9 SOHO as you know it will not be made anymore, instead it will be merged with the deluxe version.
That's a great way to pretty much kill a successful version. So we invent all sorts of niche distro's but destroy the core business, the one version that has a lot of followers?

well, if we're going to shoot ourselves in the foot.....
* The Headacher takes out the bandages
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 01:42:40 pm by The Headacher » Logged

Most music on my soundcloud page was arranged in programs running on VL.
Witek Mozga
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« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2008, 01:53:59 pm »

I think we have decided that after 5.9 SOHO as you know it will not be made anymore, instead it will be merged with the deluxe version.

Sounds scary... SOHO is why I use Vector at all
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nubcnubdo
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« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2008, 02:06:26 pm »

As a recovering distro-hopper, I can attest that distro-hoppers are very disappointed if they can't check out a distro with its liveCD. Distro-hoppers are liveCD-happy. So I suggest we keep a sampler liveCD, and in that regard, the choice should be Standard because it runs on more machines, yet still gives the full effect.

Quote
I think we have decided that after 5.9 SOHO as you know it will not be made anymore, instead it will be merged with the deluxe version.

We decided that? Who done that? Who decided that? What?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2008, 02:11:18 pm by nubcnubdo » Logged
lagagnon
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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2008, 02:21:20 pm »

As a recovering distro-hopper, I can attest that distro-hoppers are very disappointed if they can't check out a distro with its liveCD.

But to follow that concept through to its logical conclusion inveterate distro-hoppers are often never around long enough to help support the community anyways so should we really be catering to them? I know that may be a bit harsh, but probably true in many circumstances....
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"As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers". Robert G. Ingersoll
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