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Author Topic: VL-LIGHT Dev thread  (Read 50032 times)
uelsk8s
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Vectorian
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« on: January 08, 2008, 09:59:37 am »

here is the new package list: http://numsum.com/spreadsheet/show/58651
It is a copy of the 5.9 packages list. for now we will mark the BG of the packages to be removed in red, then once we are sure it should be removed it will be deleted from the spreadsheet.
I am putting Saulgoode as the lead of this project, as long as there are no objections.
If you want to help with this please post here and let us know what you are wiling to do.
If you want access to edit the spreadsheet you will need to register at numsum.com and PM me your email address.
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stoichyu
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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2008, 04:57:41 am »

Willing to test!!! Cheesy Have been waiting for a small vector to customize for a while now. Tried to make one before but got lazy Grin
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There's no place like ~.
VL 5.8 PentiumD 2.8Ghz Registered Linux User #432836
saulgoode
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Posts: 340



« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2008, 06:54:22 pm »

I finally got my website and e-mail working (which was previously preventing my registering at numsum) and am now successfully registered.

The ideal approach would be to have an extremely minimal base (no X, no Apps, no unneeded Libs) which would provide the bare essentials to get a terminal-only Vector system installed; and then any additional packages would need the requisite slack-depends generated (and tested). This may be unreasonable from a practical standpoint though.

The more pragmatic approach might be to remove packages from Standard (noting which packages are removed so slack-depends can later be created) until the appropriate VL-LIGHT package set is achieved. While this entails a lot less initial effort, I am thinking that the dependency resolution of that larger set of packages might cause more confusion and (and less reliability) in the long run.

I think I shall take a stab at the first approach to see how it works out. I have previously done similarly with SW 10, generating a fairly complete 6M install system (and someone on LQ.org has done the same with SW 12). This would just be an interim step, I am not suggesting that VL-LIGHT should exclude X11.
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A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.
Darin
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2008, 07:14:05 pm »

I will be finishing a version this weekend uelsk8s for a base...I am trying to get ahold of the E17 packages and take out xfce and replace with E17 to be a completely different version...I might do 2 versions for testing...
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Darin
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Posts: 35



« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2008, 11:08:05 am »

ok there is an iso but the size is not what we expected with a fully functional desktop..the iso is 454mb in size with flux on it as well as most everything else so there is room to cut...I do think we are going to need different graphics and at this point I think the name is going to be V-Locity but more suggestions are welcomed
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Lyn
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2008, 02:37:10 am »

How low resource for hardware do you want to go?  Have an old P1 Dell Optiplex I can test on.
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Freeman
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Choice to the user!


« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2008, 08:22:43 am »

I sam Moe-Inx wanted to remove X. I thing it would be nice if we could keep X.. Basic GUI for a novice user would be nice don't you think?
-Just a thought off course Smiley
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It's better to die 10 times, than never to have loved at all.
nubcnubdo
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Posts: 675


« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2008, 02:55:07 pm »

Can we come to a consensus on objectives re VL-LIGHT. Is it for a small install footprint? Is it for customizing? We haven't really defined its purpose. So I suggest we arrive at some consensus on what it will do, what it's for. Personally, I don't really want a barebones, customizable OS. I would prefer a pared down, fully functional OS for limited hardware, with about one third (to one half) of VL Standard's footprint. Naturally, such a pared down OS can be customized, but still I think it should stand on its own without further modification, with basic apps for everyday usage.

5 Things Wrong With Microsoft Authorized Refurbisher Program (MAR)
http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2730&Itemid=449
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 03:01:09 pm by nubcnubdo » Logged
newt
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« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2008, 03:32:54 pm »

Can we come to a consensus on objectives re VL-LIGHT. Is it for a small install footprint? Is it for customizing? We haven't really defined its purpose. So I suggest we arrive at some consensus on what it will do, what it's for.
That's a very good point (unless, of course, this has already been done somewhere else).

My impressions from the other thread was that VL would have the 3 basic versions: Core, Standard, SOHO.  I would define those as follows: (I'm no dev so this is all theorhetical based on imaginary dreaming since I don't know what drives development Grin)

Standard being exactly what it is: a fully-functioning, light-weight release with near-full X implementation centering around supporting "older" hardware with limited resources. Light on the resources.  What does "older" mean? I don't know :shrug:

SOHO (aka Deluxe): a fully-functioning, heavy-weight release (relatively speaking) with full X implementation centering around supporting "older" hardware with more-capable resources.  Moderate on the resources.  What does "older" mean? I don't know :shrug:

...last, and certainly not least....

Core: a fully-functioning, very-light-weight CLI release (i.e. no X implementation) centering around creating the engine that drives Standard and SOHO/Deluxe (perhaps, by definition, this will REQUIRE including X, but perhaps not). No desktop environment or window managers included.  Very light on the resources.  Not intended for use by 95+% of users; only for the hard-core; only for devs; only for capable hackers; only for those that love white text on a black background.

Core becomes the foundation for the release.  The house that gets built on top can be any number of levels or shapes (standard, soho, deluxe, live, server, etc...).
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uelsk8s
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2008, 03:33:44 pm »

Can we come to a consensus on objectives re VL-LIGHT. Is it for a small install footprint? Is it for customizing? We haven't really defined its purpose. So I suggest we arrive at some consensus on what it will do, what it's for.
That was part of my intention for starting this thread. There is little need IMO for a parred down version of VL if it is not optimized for Something.
It has been shown that you can take 5.9-STD and customize it to run on as little as 64mb ram.
If the only reason is for a smaller download  I say spend the money and order a cd.
If  VL-LIGHT is to go ahead I say we define it for lower spec machines put a ck-kernel in, get rid of hal and make it fly on those systems.
I have setup a poll here: http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5302.0
let us know your opinion

Uelsk8s
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caitlyn
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2008, 11:22:16 am »

I am actually involved in a similar project, albeit a separate distro with some things stolen from VL.  We'd gladly dump our project and go with VL-Light if it meets our needs.

Footprint:  shoot for 210MB or less.  That's a 3"/5cm mini-CD.  That would make VL-Light a pocket distro like GoblinX Mini, NimbleX, Slax, Mustang Linux, TinyMe, etc...  You can get a large part of the rest of the way there by removing the man pages, documentation, and i18n/i10n from the packages and offering them as separate packages in the light repository.  You'd be amazed at how much smaller your packages will become.   Take a look at these distros and the apps they offer to see just how much you can cram into 210MB.  Installed size should be <1.0GB.

RAM:  I can make VL 5.9 run neatly in 32MB of RAM.  I've done it.  Really.  Abiword and gnumeric run fine.  So does dillo.  Opera is just about OK.  GUI text editors are happy as clams as is Bluefish.  xv works for photo editing.  Xfe is my file editor on the 32MB system.  At 64MB Opera is decent and GIMP is just about usable.  Some multimedia stuff can just about work at 64MB of RAM.  SIAG Office is smaller than AbiWord/Gnumeric and is lightning fast even at 32MB of RAM but it lacks functionality.  I'm packaging it for 5.9 anyway.

Installer:  Make sure hosted installs (the vinstall scripts) stay on the iso.  Older and green hardware may not have a bootable CD-ROM drive. 

Wireless works but wifi-radar doesn't.  OK, it does if you don't mind waiting half an hour for it to react.  VL-wifi is the correct answer here.

E17 and Xfce are both really bad ideas at 64MB and unusable at 32MB.  Fluxbox is a bit poky, too, and is noticeably slow at 32MB.  Good choices:  JWM, PekWM with fbpanel, aewm++ with fbpanel, windowmaker, afterstep.  If you go minimal you can use Esetroot to put the background in when launched.  I'd offer two choices, maybe three.  Fluxbox is the heaviest one I'd even consider if this was my project, which it isn't.

Yes, trim /usr/share/wallpapers down to half it's current size or less.  Make the rest (and more pretty wallpapers like the ones that come with fluxbox and Xfce) an optional package in the repository.

Things I'd like to see:  something like VL-Hot that works with a minimalistic window manager.  That would be unique and very cool.  I'd also like to see a copy2ram option like the linux-live scripts even on a conventional install.

....Oh, and yeah, I'm volunteering to help.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
caitlyn
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2008, 11:25:43 am »

Here's an additional package I'd suggest:  claws-mail  Good choice for lightweight mail client.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
Joe1962
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Vectorian
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« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2008, 11:39:32 am »

Things I'd like to see:  something like VL-Hot that works with a minimalistic window manager.  That would be unique and very cool.
Interesting, I gave quite a bit of thought to this a while back, but never figured out the best way to implement this. Would a floating tool-window with the mounted drives/partitions work? Any other ideas?
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O'Neill (RE the Asgard): "Usually they ask nicely before they ignore us and do what they damn well please."
http://joe1962.bigbox.info
Running: VL 7 Std 64 + self-cooked XFCE-4.10
caitlyn
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Vectorian
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WWW
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2008, 11:49:34 am »

Things I'd like to see:  something like VL-Hot that works with a minimalistic window manager.  That would be unique and very cool.
Interesting, I gave quite a bit of thought to this a while back, but never figured out the best way to implement this. Would a floating tool-window with the mounted drives/partitions work? Any other ideas?


That would certainly work.  A desktop icon which would open into a mount/umount tool would also work. 

You know what else would be cool?  Something like embedding it into fbpanel.  Of course, that wouldn't work well with window managers that already have their own panel like fluxbox or jwm.  Of course, if you're feeling really ambitious you embed it just into the panels used in VL-Light.

Nobody has done anything like this so I expect it would be picked up by other small/lightweight distros and be quite popular within that niche.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
nightflier
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 4026



« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2008, 12:10:34 pm »

In VL Light Alpha 1.6, using JWM and pcmanfm to manage the desktop, vl-hot icons pop up on the desktop when a device is inserted. The unmount one does work, but the other launcher gives error "Command not found".

You can navigate to the mount point and access it, so I bet it's just a matter of modifying vl-hot's desktop launcher to use pcmanfm to open the drive.
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