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Question: How would you define a lighter version of VL?
simply parr it down
further optimize it for slow systems
we dont need no VL-light.

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Author Topic: VL-Light?  (Read 40531 times)
gamfa
Vectorite
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Posts: 245



« Reply #120 on: January 25, 2008, 05:05:12 pm »

Ever since this started up I had hopes a lite version would be somewhat like Kocil's first Dynamite for 5.0. Just the basics and the user could make it what he/she wanted from the repositories.
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"Don't tell my cattle I have leather seats in my truck"

"I never let schooling stand in the way of my education"...Mark Twain
nubcnubdo
Vectorian
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Posts: 675


« Reply #121 on: January 25, 2008, 05:42:28 pm »

Quote
Just... its light, not lite.
"Lite version, a basic, no-frills version of a product, especially computer software."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lite
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easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2160



« Reply #122 on: January 25, 2008, 06:05:33 pm »

Quote
"Lite version, a basic, no-frills version of a product, especially computer software."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lite


Yeah, like color instead of colour; thru instead of through; etc  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 06:07:20 pm by easuter » Logged

exeterdad
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2046



« Reply #123 on: January 25, 2008, 06:28:04 pm »

Although the link defining Lite Version, the first word especially....  Is quite disturbing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lite_version

Crippleware?
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uelsk8s
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2504



« Reply #124 on: January 25, 2008, 06:32:50 pm »

I like this much better myself.
light (comparative lighter, superlative lightest)

   1. Of low weight; not heavy.

   2. Lightly-built; designed for speed or small loads.


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nubcnubdo
Vectorian
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Posts: 675


« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2008, 06:39:08 pm »

Ya, apparently the usage of Lite tends to refer to crippleware, or an intentionally deficient product. I didnt know that. I guess the world of advertising races ahead of common knowledge.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 06:40:49 pm by nubcnubdo » Logged
easuter
Global Moderator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2160



« Reply #126 on: January 25, 2008, 06:45:01 pm »

Although the link defining Lite Version, the first word especially....  Is quite disturbing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lite_version

Crippleware?

Good catch!  Shocked
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caitlyn
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WWW
« Reply #127 on: January 26, 2008, 11:02:33 am »

I've been working on-and-off with another developer on a project based on VL.  It was originally going to be VL-mini but for reasons that are irrelevant to this thread it's going to end up being a completely separate distro loosely based on VL -- as in some bits will come from Vector but others (including the kernel) will not.  Just trimming down Vector to our specs was a huge job and building from scratch proved easier.

In any case, if VL were to meet our requirements we'd drop our project in half a heartbeat Smiley  I do like VL.  Here's what we came up with so far for both green computing (Nano-ITX, Pico-ITX technology and Asus Eee PC) and older systems:

1.  Choice of traditional install or hosted install (i.e.: vinstall or similar for machines which don't support or don't have a bootable CD-ROM drive or USB Boot support).  A live CD (separate) is also necessary.
2.  Footprint under 1.0GB.  Fits on a 5cm (3") mini CD so iso must be <210MB.  Dev tools not included but can be installed en masse from a metapackage in a repository.  Ditto docs including man pages.  Ditto i18n/i10n files.
3.  Must run in 64MB of RAM with X. (OK if some heavier apps are available or even on the iso, but the core apps and UI must perform reasonably well with little memory.) A 32MB ultralight mode would be nice too but not critical.  X support must be excellent for both older and newer hardware.  It should be noted that this restriction doesn't apply to the live CD -- linux-live scripts really do need 96MB and I haven't found a decent alternative yet.
4.  Live CD must support copy2ram and do it successfully in <= 512MB RAM.  It'd be nice to include that in the traditional install as well.  We haven't figured that bit out yet.
5.  Our (still not public) alpha has two window managers:  jwm and pekwm.  We've played with fluxbox but found it a little slow on 64MB systems.  The ones we chose are happy in 32MB.  We added fbpanel to pekwm to add a reasonable panel and use Esetroot to add a background image.  Other window managers that performed acceptably included aewm++, windowmaker, fvwm2, ion, and afterstep.  Ion was rejected due to licensing concerns.  Using dfm to add icons to the desktop was considered and then ditched.  Many old systems or systems with tiny screens run at relatively low resolution.  Clutter is NOT a good thing.
6.  Apps in our alpha include abiword and gnumeric.  They run acceptably well in 32MB so we ditched SIAG Office but it is a reasonable alternative.  File managers that work well enough include emelfm and xfe. 
7.  Our chosen terminal is mrxvt -- tabbed but lightweight enough.  rxvt-unicode is another good choice.  aterm works well enough too.
8.  Believe it or not GIMP is usable (OK, just barely) at 64MB.  xv is the lightweight (but limited) alternative.
9.  Firefox is NOT usable at 64MB of RAM.  Opera is.  We wanted all Open Source but reality forced us in a different direction.  Opera is also smaller than Firefox.  Dillo is the lightweight alternative.
10.  Don't even think about Flash, Java, or other fancy shmancy plugins.  Optional and in the repository - yes.  On the iso -- no chance.
11.  Have some decent multimedia options for machines with more RAM.  Mplayer and either xmms or bmp are good, basic choices.
12.  CD burning -- grafburn seems like the best choice at present.  I hate using anything from Puppy Linux because of their community but there you have it.
13.  Most reasonable text editors are light enough.  Bluefish is fine in 32MB of RAM for HTML/PHP.  Leafpad runs on anything.
14.  Ya gotta have vi and/or nano.  AliXe went with just mcedit for a command line editor and I hate it.
15.  Asus Eee PC is a special animal all it's own and probably is a separate release.

These are just random thoughts, really, but you get the idea...

-C
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
nightflier
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 4026



« Reply #128 on: January 26, 2008, 05:32:25 pm »

Pcmanfm just released version 0.3.5.4 today. Glad to see that promising project going forward.  Smiley
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nightflier
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 4026



« Reply #129 on: January 27, 2008, 11:52:04 am »

Installed Alpha 1.6 on a P3-600 with 60 MB Ram (4 is taken by the on-board video). Set it up to use pcmanfm to show desktop icons as well as wallpaper. Immediately after cold boot, htop shows 20 MB of RAM plus 2 MB swap usage. All the included apps, including Opera, are quite usable. I find this very encouraging.
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exeterdad
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2046



« Reply #130 on: January 27, 2008, 01:11:08 pm »

Wow.  That's impressive!
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nubcnubdo
Vectorian
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Posts: 675


« Reply #131 on: January 28, 2008, 06:45:57 pm »

As long as VL Light targets low-end computers, I think we should make an effort to improve modem detection, even go so far as auto-configuration. As it is now, my Lucent winmodem is not detected. I'm not saying this has to be done for this first edition, but I think that after initial development, we should try to make those improvements for the many users with dialup.

I would like to retain System Profiler and Benchmark in VL Light. This utility is bound to improve and it's useful now.

I'm not trying to stir things up, but most minimalistic versions are live CDs as well. How much extra stuff would be required to make VL Light a live CD? I'm just curious.

Login dialog became inoperable when I selected "Start Fluxbox". In Fluxbox, I tried to call movie player from desktop icon and start menu, with negative results, nothing came up. Is Fluxbox still being developed?

Drag bar on Xfe is still inaccessible. Have to check earlier post for getting it lower on the screen. In any case, it isnt obvious how to accomplish that, as I have gone through all the headings.

There are two instances of the Home icon on desktop, from the start.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 07:14:10 pm by nubcnubdo » Logged
uelsk8s
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2504



« Reply #132 on: January 28, 2008, 07:23:19 pm »

As long as VL Light targets low-end computers, I think we should make an effort to improve modem detection, even go so far as auto-configuration. As it is now, my Lucent winmodem is not detected. I'm not saying this has to be done for this first edition, but I think that after initial development, we should try to make those improvements for the many users with dialup.
This is a great idea, it would require some of us finding modems and a bit of guessing since we dont have ISP's to dial but it could work.
are there free drivers for the lucent winmodem?

I would like to retain System Profiler and Benchmark in VL Light. This utility is bound to improve and it's useful now.
It is there and will stay

I'm not trying to stir things up, but most minimalistic versions are live CDs as well. How much extra stuff would be required to make VL Light a live CD? I'm just curious.
it is true but really doesnt make much sense livecd's dont work that well on 2x cdroms.
It is very easy to make any VL into a live cd with the VL-live-tools package

Login dialog became inoperable when I selected "Start Fluxbox". In Fluxbox, I tried to call movie player from desktop icon and start menu, with negative results, nothing came up. Is Fluxbox still being developed?
yes it is

Drag bar on Xfe is still inaccessible. Have to check earlier post for getting it lower on the screen. In any case, it isnt obvious how to accomplish that, as I have gone through all the headings.
right click the entry in the panel at the bottom of the screen, this should be fixable in later releases

There are two instances of the Home icon on desktop, from the start.
this will be gone with the adoption of pcmanfm for desktop icons

Thanks,
Uelsk8s
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nubcnubdo
Vectorian
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Posts: 675


« Reply #133 on: January 28, 2008, 07:42:41 pm »

Problem with the JWM menu when called by mouse click. I believe the convention is that the menu should appear only with a right click. Currently the menu appears with either right or left click, and this is problematic when left clicking just about anything, like icons and buttons. That is, rather than opening the app represented by icon or actuating button, I get an unexpected menu. Sometimes, I get both, the desired action and an undesired (context?) menu.

Here is the menu that sometimes appears when I left-click a button:
Code:
Copy
Copy to Note
Search
Search with
Dictionary
Encyclopedia
Translate
Go to Web Address
Send by Mail

It seems like I can't stay logged in anywhere, not VL Forum, not YouTube. Something wrong with cookies?

CBC Radio not playing out of the box. Can't configure xine to play a streaming URL.
http://www.cbc.ca/listen/
EDIT: I recall that user can run a streaming URL from command prompt (or Run).

JWM desktop icons are dim/faded/blueish until mouse-over causes them to brighten up in color. Depressing appearance.

VLC volume control misplaced, superimposed over button, under Navigation heading. (VL Light A1.7)

IMHO for VL Light there should be no games that would freeze a 500 MHz computer (just to pick an average low-end processor speed).

In Fluxbox, the OS X/Dreamlinux-style icons look inconsistent with the "barebones" appearance of Fluxbox.

Usability study would probably place Run closer to Start button.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 12:24:40 pm by nubcnubdo » Logged
nightflier
Administrator
Vectorian
*****
Posts: 4026



« Reply #134 on: January 29, 2008, 05:45:28 am »

I think most of the above issues are with idesk, which probably will be replaced with pcmanfm. Try the new .jwmrc file here: http://www.vectorlinux.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5250.msg37171#msg37171

For streaming media, the mplayer plug-in needs two additional packages: sdl and openal. Install with gslapt.

Fluxbox has not been getting much attention yet. It's on the list of things to do.

"Run" close to start button: When launching menu by right-clicking on desktop, the top entry becomes the closest one. However, when using pcmanfm to manage desktop, you're right. Probably a good idea to have "Run", "Home" and maybe "Browser" on the bottom of menu.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 09:43:20 am by nightflier » Logged
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