need to recruit a few good folks to get the VL word out

[M0E-lnx]

Im def in

?

[tripleRsystem]

We are hoping to get at least three willing volunteers to broadcast vector news to their favorite linux news sites. This would only take a few minutes per day and would greatly enhance our web presence in the linux community. This is a grass roots effort and a great way you can contribute back to your community. News can be anything like howto's to release news and anything thats relevant. We need to let the world know there is a linux that doesn't  start or end with ubuntru.
 vec

Honestly:  I'm a relatively new comer to the environment of Vector Linux, and  Linux generally.  I have tried most distros over the past three too four years, and I had tried Vector a couple years ago and become frustrated with it, as I had with other distros.  I suppose I'm a born newbi.  However, I came back to Vector Linux because of its quality, speed and underlying Skackware roots.  My intentions are to stay with Vector Linux and become well versed in its development and usages.  Therefore, I have little connection too the Linux community at large, so I question as to whether or not I'm able to contribute in this regard beyond word of mouth, which I already do, and there is at least one other besides me, in our IT department, now working to understand and use Vector Linux.  I will remain alert to any possibility to promote VL whenever the opportunity arises. 

[waynev]

We are hoping to get at least three willing volunteers to broadcast vector news to their favorite linux news sites. This would only take a few minutes per day and would greatly enhance our web presence in the linux community. This is a grass roots effort and a great way you can contribute back to your community. News can be anything like howto's to release news and anything thats relevant. We need to let the world know there is a linux that doesn't  start or end with ubuntru.
 vec

I'll need to get up to speed on the howto of article writing, but I'll try and work something up and try it out on one of the Linux News Sites.  I suppose the worst that can happen is it's trashed. 

[waynev]

Im def in

?

[caitlyn]

Sorry, but I just don't see the point in thinking in terms of marketing and conventional business strategies.  Vector Linux makes exactly zero dollars if one new user downloads and installs VL or if a million do.  Yes, a few more people might by SOHO if it's more popular and I suppose that's good.  Most Linux companies make their money selling support and consulting services.  Marketing the new support offerings to businesses makes sense.  Worrying about if we're ranked 15th or 23rd on Distrowatch makes no sense and IMHO simply doesn't matter.

I'm a Linux professional and I would *NEVER* recommend Vector Linux to one of my customers for use either on the desktop or in the server room.  Why not?  When known security issues crop up sometimes someone gets a new package to fix the problem out.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens eventually, and sometimes it never happens at all.  If a security fix is packaged does it get tested and moved to the repositories promptly?  VL's history says no, absolutely not! 

Do we inform users of security issues?  Sometimes yes, mostly no.  We have the mechanisms to do it in the forum, on the website, and via RSS.  Everything is in place and it's rarely used.  Look at the website -- no security news since July yet in August both DoS and buffer overflow vulnerabilities were discovered in xine-lib.  The good news is toothandnail did make a new package.  The bad news is that it just got into the patches repository a few days ago.  No information about it was ever disseminated to the users.

If VL wants to be taken seriously it needs to get its act in order when it comes to security.  That probably isn't going to happen on a volunteer basis.

[tripleRsystem]

Sorry, but I just don't see the point in thinking in terms of marketing and conventional business strategies.  Vector Linux makes exactly zero dollars if one new user downloads and installs VL or if a million do.  Yes, a few more people might by SOHO if it's more popular and I suppose that's good.  Most Linux companies make their money selling support and consulting services.  Marketing the new support offerings to businesses makes sense.  Worrying about if we're ranked 15th or 23rd on Distrowatch makes no sense and IMHO simply doesn't matter.

I'm a Linux professional and I would *NEVER* recommend Vector Linux to one of my customers for use either on the desktop or in the server room.  Why not?  When known security issues crop up sometimes someone gets a new package to fix the problem out.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens eventually, and sometimes it never happens at all.  If a security fix is packaged does it get tested and moved to the repositories promptly?  VL's history says no, absolutely not! 

Do we inform users of security issues?  Sometimes yes, mostly no.  We have the mechanisms to do it in the forum, on the website, and via RSS.  Everything is in place and it's rarely used.  Look at the website -- no security news since July yet in August both DoS and buffer overflow vulnerabilities were discovered in xine-lib.  The good news is toothandnail did make a new package.  The bad news is that it just got into the patches repository a few days ago.  No information about it was ever disseminated to the users.

If VL wants to be taken seriously it needs to get its act in order when it comes to security.  That probably isn't going to happen on a volunteer basis.

You make an excellent point with regard to VL deficiencies.  Truly VL must address its short comings in these areas to be taken seriously to garner the respect Vector desires.  However, addressing problematic areas should not necessitate shutting down all other areas of VL to address such problems.  VL is an excellent product as it stands and can be promoted on its positives while negatives are taken under advisement and corrected.  Granted, negatives need be quickly addressed and corrected as soon as possible. 

There seems to be some disconnect wherein I'm suggesting VL should be run as a business, this is not the crux of my input, I simply suggest more focus on planning and less on happenstance, managed like a business if you like.

Community perception of where VL takes an equilibrium in ranking is important, how many nebbish want a distro ranked number twenty when just up the road number one is available.  Perception it's a strong multiplier when it comes to selling a product, (and I'm not talking about dollars and cents selling here.)  and if selling VL to the community is not what this is all about, I give up. 

[waynev]

Sorry, but I just don't see the point in thinking in terms of marketing and conventional business strategies.  Vector Linux makes exactly zero dollars if one new user downloads and installs VL or if a million do.  Yes, a few more people might by SOHO if it's more popular and I suppose that's good.  Most Linux companies make their money selling support and consulting services.  Marketing the new support offerings to businesses makes sense.  Worrying about if we're ranked 15th or 23rd on Distrowatch makes no sense and IMHO simply doesn't matter.

I'm a Linux professional and I would *NEVER* recommend Vector Linux to one of my customers for use either on the desktop or in the server room.  Why not?  When known security issues crop up sometimes someone gets a new package to fix the problem out.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it happens quickly, sometimes it happens eventually, and sometimes it never happens at all.  If a security fix is packaged does it get tested and moved to the repositories promptly?  VL's history says no, absolutely not! 

Do we inform users of security issues?  Sometimes yes, mostly no.  We have the mechanisms to do it in the forum, on the website, and via RSS.  Everything is in place and it's rarely used.  Look at the website -- no security news since July yet in August both DoS and buffer overflow vulnerabilities were discovered in xine-lib.  The good news is toothandnail did make a new package.  The bad news is that it just got into the patches repository a few days ago.  No information about it was ever disseminated to the users.

If VL wants to be taken seriously it needs to get its act in order when it comes to security.  That probably isn't going to happen on a volunteer basis.

A person would need to be outfitted in Mules blinders to think so narrowly.   Geez, all of these things should be normal everyday housekeeping items.   Every Distro faces the same problem in keeping its distro updated and improving security.  So what gives with all this maintenance stuff?  Maintenance won’t translate into broader linux user awareness for VL.   VL may have the most up to date and security tight distro in Linux World but unless the world is told it won’t be known.  That requires some type of get out the good news effort.  I think I read somewhere they call it marketing.   How can anyone with any common sense think that setting in some room crunching code is all that’s required;  NUTS!. 

[caitlyn]

waynev:  None of the major distros has problems getting security patches on a timely basis.  Show me even one example where Ubuntu, Red Hat/Fedora/CentOS, Suse, Mandriva, Debian, or Slackware has failed to do so over the past few years.  Just one.  You can't do it.  They all take security seriously.  Your claim that every distro faces this problem is pure B.S.!  Again, I challenge you to show me even one documented example.

Blinders?  You're the one whose nuts if you think this isn't important.  It absolutely prevents us from reaching a wider audience.  I can't think of  anything more important to solve.  I know the developers take this issue VERY seriously even if you don't.

Where on earth do you get the idea that the world isn't told about VL?  There are articles about and reviews of VL all over the net.  What have you done to get the word out?  What makes you think that I don't help get the word out?  Go to the O'Reilly Media website (you know, the folks who are the largest publisher of technical books, including Linux books) and search out how many articles about Vector Linux I've written over the past three years.  The search for my name and Vector Linux on lxer.com, linuxtoday.com, and linux.com.  Tell me again how I have blinders after that or how I or anyone else you're lecturing to has been deficient in getting the word out.

I'm really, really tired of you and your other newbie buddy telling us that we're not doing whatever it is we're supposed to do to let the world know we're here.  I'm also really, really tired of reading the idea that we can ignore our shortcomings and put out crap compared to the major distros and it won't matter so long as we get the word out.

OK, since you see the world so much more clearly than I do how about you or your buddy offer up one concrete suggestion of what we're supposed to be doing to get the word out that we aren't doing already.  I haven't seen one yet.  All I see is a lot of pontificating, spouting off, and claiming that you two newbies no so much bettter than those of us who have been using this distro for years.  Also, while you're at it, tell us how you are going to volunteer to make this distro either better known or better technically.  I've been getting the word out on every major Linux forum.  Have you?  I've been building packages and lately I've helped to maintain our repositories.  What have you done?

Do you still think I have blinders?  Methinks you have no clue whatsoever about what you are talking about.  Do a little Google search next time before making accusations, OK?

Oh, and posting the same nonsense on multiple thread doesn't make it any less nonsensical.

[waynev]

waynev:  None of the major distros has problems getting security patches on a timely basis.  Show me even one example where Ubuntu, Red Hat/Fedora/CentOS, Suse, Mandriva, Debian, or Slackware has failed to do so over the past few years.  Just one.  You can't do it.  They all take security seriously.  Your claim that every distro faces this problem is pure B.S.!  Again, I challenge you to show me even one documented example.

Blinders?  You're the one whose nuts if you think this isn't important.  It absolutely prevents us from reaching a wider audience.  I can't think of  anything more important to solve.  I know the developers take this issue VERY seriously even if you don't.

Where on earth do you get the idea that the world isn't told about VL?  There are articles about and reviews of VL all over the net.  What have you done to get the word out?  What makes you think that I don't help get the word out?  Go to the O'Reilly Media website (you know, the folks who are the largest publisher of technical books, including Linux books) and search out how many articles about Vector Linux I've written over the past three years.  The search for my name and Vector Linux on lxer.com, linuxtoday.com, and linux.com.  Tell me again how I have blinders after that or how I or anyone else you're lecturing to has been deficient in getting the word out.

I'm really, really tired of you and your other newbie buddy telling us that we're not doing whatever it is we're supposed to do to let the world know we're here.  I'm also really, really tired of reading the idea that we can ignore our shortcomings and put out crap compared to the major distros and it won't matter so long as we get the word out.

OK, since you see the world so much more clearly than I do how about you or your buddy offer up one concrete suggestion of what we're supposed to be doing to get the word out that we aren't doing already.  I haven't seen one yet.  All I see is a lot of pontificating, spouting off, and claiming that you two newbies no so much bettter than those of us who have been using this distro for years.  Also, while you're at it, tell us how you are going to volunteer to make this distro either better known or better technically.  I've been getting the word out on every major Linux forum.  Have you?  I've been building packages and lately I've helped to maintain our repositories.  What have you done?

Do you still think I have blinders?  Methinks you have no clue whatsoever about what you are talking about.  Do a little Google search next time before making accusations, OK?

Oh, and posting the same nonsense on multiple thread doesn't make it any less nonsensical.

I found you posting the same stuff on two threads so I just followed your lead, but of course you are special.  Please note I did not call you Idiot; Idiot.  BTW; you forgot to tell me your a Linux Professional.

[caitlyn]

I responded on two thread, yes.  I didn't start posting on two threads.

Where did I call you an idiot?  You're good at name calling and making accusations.  You still haven't answered my questions:

What should we be doing to market VL that we aren't already doing?  Limit yourself to things that don't cost a lot of money VL doesn't have?

How can we be a major distro if we don't offer the same quality as major distros in areas like security?  Which major distro doesn't get security patches out promptly?  Which one EVER fails to do so?

What have you done to make VL better or better known?

[Masta]

For the upcoming VL-6, we are thinking to base it on the Debian core. This way we can get some volunteers in a much easier way to help get the word out.

The other alternative is to base it on the Vista core. This way, we will have corporate backing and funding support along with ultimate security.

[caitlyn]

Masta: I'm glad to see someone has a sense of humor 

[wcs]

The other alternative is to base it on the Vista core. This way, we will have corporate backing and funding support along with ultimate security.