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Author Topic: [Solved] Fail to get permission to save changes to hda1  (Read 10626 times)
nooby
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« on: August 06, 2008, 01:05:11 pm »

I have changed the title to better reflect what I really ask.
The hda get automounted but despite me being root I
still are no allowed to write to files at my harddisk.

Short background. I have vl5.9SOHO in frugal install which means that
one have a grub program like grldr in root of the hda and then a
menu.lst that look for wmlinuz and initrd at boot forlder which works
well and for the the other parts in vector folder and that works well too.

What fails are the saving of changes and me have not learned how to mount hda1.

As a n00B I kind of would not be surprised if the program had
access to things me as a user or even as root has no access to.

I mean it could be set up that way to protect important system files?

I am trying to figure out how to save changes I made as chosing
another keyboard map than US default and bookmarks and
passwords and such in FireFox.

But I still have not figured out how to mount hda1 or sda1 which
ever Vector is set up to refer to it.


Is saving changes dependent on mounting that had1 device?

When I boot it seems to need that the menu.lst has the right
cheatcode. 

uelsk8s suggested changes=/dev/hda1

I don't remember the result of it. I can do it again but dev sounds not so logical to me.

changes=/mnt/hda1/vector/changes/ allow me to boot but not to save.
If I test changes=/slax.data and have such a file in root then it fails to boot.

So it is obvious me has to learn more to get it going I mean to let it save properly.

Any suggestions?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 06:17:22 am by lagagnon » Logged

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nooby
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2008, 01:29:41 pm »

I misunderstood something. It doesn't save changes.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 01:54:41 pm by nooby » Logged

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caitlyn
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 01:54:24 pm »

Vector Linux, AFAIK, does not support a frugal install.  It can be done from the live CD -- I think any distro that uses the linux-live scripts can -- but it wasn't an intended installation method and it's not supported.  That doesn't mean someone hasn't done it and hopefully someone can answer the question.

Re: how other distros do it: Slax, Wolvix, AliXe, Damn Small Linux, and a few others I have tried require the ability to write a file which saves the settings somewhere on your hard drive.  The format of the file varies by distro.  So... you do need to have at least one writable partition mounted.  Remember that in a frugall installation  It doesn't have to be /dev/hda1 or /dev/sda1.  I have Damn Small Linux (frugal install) dual booted with Vector Linux Light (normal, full install) on my Toshiba Libretto SS1010 and DSL saves to /dev/hda6 just fine. 

What is your objection to downloading VL Standard (*not Live*) and installing to a partition on your hard drive?  It's much easier to keep things up to date and apply security patches on a conventional installation.  DSL has a very frequent release schedule, they don't offer many updates, and they expect you to drop a new Knoppix image onto your hard drive to upgrade your frugal installation all at once.  Vector Linux does not have frequent releases (typically one per year for each variant) and does issue security patches on a package by package basis, similar to Ubuntu. Red Hat/Fedora, and Slackware.  You can certainly do a frugal installation of Vector Linux but that isn't how it's designed to be used and I fail to see why you would choose VL if that's the way you want to operate.  VL isn't an itty, bitty distro like DSL or Puppy, either.
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nooby
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Posts: 96



« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 02:06:15 pm »

Quote
Vector Linux, AFAIK, does not support a frugal install.


so the Live Script for Slax allow one to chose if and in what preferred way
to do frugal or not and if changes can be done to a frugal install.

Have the developer comment on that choice consideration.
He or she must have had something against it to decide to do
it differently from all the other slax varieties?

I know that SliTaz actively are against even to mount to hda1
it only allow cd or usb and not saving to hda1 but it does allow
booting from hda it. I've set up such frugal install and it was very
easy. More easy than any other distro. But due to it not allowing
saving on same media as it boots from I gave up on it. So I deleted
it from my hda1

So sure I trust you on this. could be that way that the developer of
Vector shared the view that SliTaz have on on not saving to same
media as one boot from. SliTaz doesn't help tell how to mount hda1
either. They probably know how to but chose to not share that knowledge
that is how I interpreted their answer in the forum.

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caitlyn
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 02:23:42 pm »

First, Vector is NOT a variant of Slax.  It has no relationship to Slax at all.  It uses the linux-live scripts as does Slax, but so do a lot of other distros.

Slitaz is another itty bitty distro.  You do things very differently with a distro designed to fit <50MB than you do in a full sized, full featured distro.   You are comparing very different things. 
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 02:25:20 pm by caitlyn » Logged

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nooby
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2008, 02:28:06 pm »

I really can't trust my poor memory but this time I am at least close to what
I told you that I maybe remembered.

so I did a google search and found this
http://www.oreillynet.com/linux/blog/2008/03/taking_a_good_long_look_at_vec.html

Quote
Vector Linux can be run on a pen drive. Any distro which uses the Linux-Live scripts supports a frugal install and VL Light Live is no different. It has a 350MB footprint so it will fit on a 512MB pen drive easily. VL Mini has a 200MB footprint so it can be modified to fit on a 256MB pen drive. VL Mini is still early in development so I have no idea if that functionality will be included. It would be a good idea, though. Considering how inexpensive 256MB and 512MB USB sticks are I don't see getting under 128MB as terribly important and I don't think Vector Linux will ever be that small.


From your colunb in Reilly

Quote
Taking A Good Long Look At Vector Linux 5.9 Standard

Tuesday March 25, 2008 11:39PM
by Caitlyn Martin in Reviews

so that was what my poor memory did interpret to you saying this was so and
you liked Vector and so I put it on my list of those distros me should try out.

I have not counted but I trust me have tested all the major ones on the Distrowatch list.
I placed vector linux 5.9 Std live CD as one of the three that suites me best.

So that is why I want to be able to do a frugal install and with the mounting
of sda1 activated.

Why I don't want to do the partitioning?

Cause I have windows XP on it and I tried several times to do defrag and resize and
to do partition with the Ubuntu live CD and had to give up on it. It just didn't work on
my gear. something with the hardware. I asked and asked and asked about it in Ubuntu
forum but gave up cause one moderator there thought me a Troll which I certainly am not.

I'm just a socially clumsy naive person that fail to find words that explain what I try to say.

No I will not do partition. Maybe if I find a scrapped computer in the dumpster I test on
that one. I saw a harddrive ibm ten GB today so maybe I could practice on that one.
A Packard Bell old desktop but without power supply. no memories either.
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nooby
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Posts: 96



« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2008, 02:32:16 pm »

Quote
It uses the linux-live scripts as does Slax,

Oups sorry, then I have to apology. What about the others then?

wolvix, alixe, goblinx, nimblex and are there more? Are they at least slax
or have I missed out on them too.

So which distros are Vector most similar to? That would give hint on how to do
frugal install? and how to set up the menu.lst so it saves which cheat code that
is supposed to do it.
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nooby
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Posts: 96



« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2008, 02:38:02 pm »

What my memory failed to remember is this part.
A very important part.
Quote
VL Mini is still early in development
so I have no idea
if that functionality will be included.

Maybe they decided against it.

How well do you know these developers.
Could you maybe send them a PM asking
how one set up a grub menu.lst in such a way
that the frugal install actually save changes
and can use them next time one boot.

And what files one need to have in what folders
for this to work. And how to mount hda1 in VL?

Would be very nice to know.

/Fred

PS it is late or very early morning here now.
not sure what you name it in Canada but it is
00.36 Thursday so 35 minutes past midnight.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 02:40:44 pm by nooby » Logged

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nooby
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2008, 02:49:13 pm »

Would it be fair to compare Vector with Slackware. Some on the web does refer
to Vector as based on Slackware. Is that also related to the Live Script or what?

I mean should I join the Slackware forums and ask them how they do frugal?
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caitlyn
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2008, 03:31:04 pm »

Vector is similar to Slackware.  Slackware doesn't have a Live CD version and does NOT support frugal installations at all.  It's simply not an option. 

You quoted me correctly.  However, that doesn't mean that what works on a USB stick always works on a hard drive.  I suspect there is a way to save settings in a frugal install of Vector.  I've never done one and don't see a reason to so I can't help there.  I expect you won't find a lot of people who have done this -- it's possible you're the only one who has tried it so far.  It's just not what Vector is designed for. 

Of the distros you mentioned that use the inux Live scripts only one, AliXe, is based on Slax.  All the others you mentioned are based on Slackware.  Wolvix was Slax based back on versions 1.0.5 and earlier but abandoned Slax as a base with 1.1.10.  There used to be a page on http://www.linux-live.org that listed distros that used the scripts but that page has been taken down.  There were at least 25 distros on the list.

I understand that you don't want to do a proper installation.  If there isn't anyone that has done what you want to do with Vector Linux you might just have to look at a different distribution.  I
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uelsk8s
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Vectorian
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Posts: 2504



« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 03:50:47 pm »

I am the VL livecd developer.
I have done a "frugal" install of VL and saved changes with the "cheatcode" I gave you previously.
The major difference between what you are trying to do and what I have done is the filesystem. I used ext2 because I knew the kernel has R/W capability for that filesystem. It will require someone installing XP on a ntfs filesystem to try and help you further. I may have time to do this later next week.


HTH,
Uelsk8s
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nooby
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 05:30:26 pm »

Thanks Caitlyn, I should read yours and others text more careful and do bookmarks too.

Uelsk8s that was nice of you. I didn't dare to guess you might be the developer of Vector
but I did take your suggestion very seriously but as is obvious being as noob and fast on the trigger
as I am, ADD related I guess. I ahve no patience at all.

Now knowing you feel motivated to look into it I will calm down and let it take the needed time.
Take it on when you feel joy in doing it. Don\t feel pressured so it fail to be fun. Programming
should be out of lust to learn. I felt so proud when I finally got GoblinX to work despite me made
multiple mess up when I dragged and dropped from the DVD.

Time is up for me over here. 03.26 in the morning so I should go to bed.

Thanks to all for caring about a persistent but too naive tester of linux distros.
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Masta
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 05:56:09 pm »

I have thought about this previously, and knew eventually this would be requested ..  Grin ... Being able to save settings from a livecd to a USB stick or on a hard drive , or some other place, seems to be a very good feature, which can be more user friendly , let alone time saving.

I'm sure that development on this will come about. Thanks for your patients.

Oh, if Ubuntu didn't do the job, it's not fitting to think that all other distros will fail at it. In my experience of distros Ubuntu seems to be the most problematic, and that's a shame since they spend lots of time "pushing" out their advertisements, simply to get their name noticed. It makes all Linux based distros look bad. They should spend some of that advertisement money into the distro's bug fixing  Wink .

If something doesn't work here on VectorLinux, we will always try to fix it. This has been the VL way / tradition for years and will always be that way  Cool
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caitlyn
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2008, 06:05:20 pm »

Isn't it amazing how distros that spend all their time touting how user friendly they are often are anything but?  Ubuntu ranks second in problematic bugs for me.  I just tried Zenwalk again.... what a disaster!  Zen?  Anything but!
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nooby
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2008, 02:24:51 am »

I have such a poor memory and when I search I often fail to find the right
combination of words to use.

Was it wgs or Caitlyn or somebody else saying that one can't expect from a vl 5.9 Std Live CD
to have such features as mounting and saving cause the purpuse of such live cd is to get a feeling for
what the distro has to offer and only the SOHO should be used to judge what Vector is capable of.


Most likely I have changed the intent and meaning of it so I apology already now.

But that was how my brain twisted what the meaning was.

But if that is the purpose then remind the user that this is a restricted view
that the live Cd is not intended to work as the real Vector.

But as I get it the SOHO has extra features that is not suppose to be standard either?

So all this is too confusing to me.

But I got curios on the difference between these two iso and downloaded and burned
also the SOHO tonight at 01.30 or so not sure when.

Wow that SOHO is very different from the Std Live.

But SOHO is also a live CD I write from it now and it has mounting built in from scratch.
It just works but I fail to get it going in frugal mode.

It says it can't write to a write protected folder on that hda1.

I've tried to change attribute from within windows on the SOHO folder but it fails.
Reading up on Microsoft support pages that is as they want it to be so that is not
something that is changeable.

The interesting thing is that the Live CD says that that folder are both readable and writeable by all.

So it is a mystery to me.

I have /dev/SOHO  now in menu.lst should I change that to something else?

uelsk8s recommended that if I have SATA then I should have sda1 instead of hda1
but I have a kind of hybrid. A SATA with their cables but in ide set up they have told me.
PATA it is named IIRC.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 02:28:40 am by nooby » Logged

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