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Author Topic: New install question  (Read 2818 times)
jimwill
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« on: August 22, 2008, 12:33:06 pm »

I've been running Vector Linux 5.8 SOHO RC3 on my laptop. While trying to get the wifi working (It had been working on the cat5 setup) I somehow managed to trash something. It no longer finds the parallel port, the network card, or the sound card! I know that I have at least 15 to 20 megs free on that drive. But it is assigned to root. Can I resize and remove 10 megs to install the latest release of Vector, without loosing data that I want to keep, then resize the new partition to recover all the space currently being used by VL5.8 SOHO? Or would it be better to boot off of a live CD and transfer the data to my desktop computer (VL5.9 Standard Gold) while I reformat and install VL5.9 or 6.0?
BTW:The hardware is fine, I have a small hard drive with windows 2k on it and it found everything with no problem.
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caitlyn
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2008, 07:19:06 pm »

Fist off, you've learned the reason why you should always have a separate /home partition.  If you had installed that way there would be no risk to your data now.

Download Parted Magicc, a live CD (can also be booted from a USB stick) designed specifically for resizing Linux partitions.  You can find it at: http://partedmagic.com/  Once you've resized do an install of 5.9.  6.0 is in early alpha stage and is nowhere near ready for prime time.  During the install define the 5.8 partition as your /home directory.  That way you can recover everything with no pain and no strain. 
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
jimwill
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Posts: 43


« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2008, 04:02:51 am »

Fist off, you've learned the reason why you should always have a separate /home partition.  If you had installed that way there would be no risk to your data now.

Uhh...yea.
The first time I installed VL I did that. Setup a small partition for root and a large home directory for data as was recommended. Guess what - EVERYTHING I installed after that went to root! Very quickly ran out of space in root and couldn't install anything else! Finally out of frustration I reformatted and made the root partition as large as possible. I wasn't aware that VL was so unstable that I would have to re-install it frequently. If linux is to ever replace windows or mac then something needs to be done about that problem. Of course I guess all of us that are trying to learn linux are just dummies and shouldn't be using it anyway!

I'll try parted magicc - looks like I can ftp the stuff I really want to keep to my desktop computer in case it looses data during the resizing.

Thanks for the link
Sorry about the above, but I'm in a down mood this morning!
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bigpaws
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Posts: 1844


« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2008, 04:35:21 am »

Quote
I've been running Vector Linux 5.8 SOHO RC3 on my laptop.
RC stands for release Candidate not the real release version.

Quote
I wasn't aware that VL was so unstable that I would have to re-install it frequently.

Would you explain?

Quote
Setup a small partition for root and a large home directory for data as was recommended. Guess what - EVERYTHING I installed after that went to root!

/home is designed for your documents and such.

The SOHO install is around 4 Gigs.

Quote
I know that I have at least 15 to 20 megs free on that drive.

Far from adequate. You should have at least 100 Megs or more after you have the
configuration of your system done which includes programs.

For Vector Linux a nice hard drive size is 10 Gigs, less than that you will probably
start with space problems pretty quickly. You could use a second hard drive and
mount that as /home so your personal settings are saved for the programs you use.

Quote
Of course I guess all of us that are trying to learn linux are just dummies and shouldn't be using it anyway!

Hardly. There is a learning curve, which can be steep. If you exploration is just to replace Windows
you will have problems. The first lesson is that trying to think of Linux,Mac or any other OS in terms of
windows your sanity will be challenged. Learn the structure of Linux and why it is in place. That will help alot.

HTH

Bigpaws

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lagagnon
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2008, 06:31:51 am »

I wasn't aware that VL was so unstable that I would have to re-install it frequently.

I have installed VectorLinux on over 100 computers now for a small charity that donates computers and I have never experienced it being unstable in over 4 years of using it.
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"As people become more intelligent they care less for preachers and more for teachers". Robert G. Ingersoll
caitlyn
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2008, 08:33:30 am »

I agree that VL is 100% stable is you use release code.  Using betas or release candidates that were intended for testing *ONLY* is a bad idea.

root should never be small.  /home isn't for applications to be installed into.  It's for personal data only.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
GrannyGeek
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2008, 09:01:57 pm »

Fist off, you've learned the reason why you should always have a separate /home partition.  If you had installed that way there would be no risk to your data now.

There are other ways to preserve your data besides using a separate /home partition. You can copy your home directory and its children to an external hard drive. The external drive should have a linux-formatted partition to preserve permissions and ownership. Or you can tar the home directory to preserve ownership and permissions if you're copying it to a FAT32 partition on an external drive.

You could burn your home directory to a DVD. I think you'd need to tar it so that permissions and ownership are preserved. Or burn to CDs (it's easier to use a DVD and worth getting a DVD burner which is almost a necessity in this day and age).

I never make a separate home partition. If it's too large, you're wasting space. If it's too small, you run out of room.
--GrannyGeek
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Happily running VL 7 Gold on  a Sempron LE-1300 desktop (2.3 GHz), 4 G RAM,  GeForce 6150 SE onboard graphics and on an HP Pavilion dv7 i7, 6 gigs, Intel 2nd Generation Integrated Graphics Controller
exeterdad
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2008, 05:06:22 am »

Quote
I never make a separate home partition. If it's too large, you're wasting space. If it's too small, you run out of room.
--GrannyGeek
That's how I feel.
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jimwill
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Posts: 43


« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 04:13:09 am »

Ok folks, if you will go back to the top of this thread and READ what I posted, you will see that I was NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT VL!
YES, I know RC stands for Release Candidate and that there is no promise that it is stable! I simply asked about how I would go about resizing my partition and making space to do a re-install!
I come home tired and check the thread and get the feeling that I'm being called stupid, that I should go back to Windoze and never venture into Linux again! So, yes, I got mad. I apologize for that, but it happens!
I installed an earlier stable release of VL (I think it was 5.7) as recommended and it was working fine. Then I installed Open Office, XXamp, and a few other programs, until I found I was running out of root space! I backed everything I wanted to keep to dvd's (which took a bit of time!), downloaded 5.8 RC3 (which was the latest at that time), wiped the drive and installed RC3. I had read in another thread where Grannygeek (or someone) had stated that they made the root drive as large as possible (after making a swap partition) and installed everything there. So I decided to do the same. Was it a mistake? Maybe, considering I was using an RC instead of a final, but I was tired of fighting for space to install new software.

Anyway, back to the original purpose of this thread! I managed to resize my existing partition and make about 7 GIGS of space free using partedmagic. Installed 5.9 standard-gold to it. I now have about 4.5 GIGS of root space left. VL found my wifi card and I can now connect to the internet. However, when I use VLwifi and check the 'save' and 'boot' options (can't remember exactly what it says, but basically that), it does not seem to work. When I reboot I still have to go to wifi-radar and tell it to connect. It will have the router ESSID, but has not gotten an ip (via dhcp) until I do tell it to connect. Am I still doing something wrong?

Also, how can I install Open Office to the new partition without eating up a lot of root? Or should I wipe software from the current /home (old root) and resize root to make space to reinstall the software? I hate to keep doing that as partedmagic says that you may loose data.

Again, I apologize for loosing my temper earlier - I know Linux has a steep learning curve and hoped to be able to get some help on this forum.
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bigpaws
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Posts: 1844


« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 04:55:34 am »

Hi Jimwill,

I have read the post again, after reading your last one. I do not see anyone
that posted to be saying your are dumb, in fact every post was trying to help
explain more indepth the way space is used.

/home is used for your documents and settings, not installing programs. There
are exceptions for that rule. Any software a user installs will not be system wide
unless installed by root. There is a definite user vs system difference here. When you
use a program your settings are saved in your /home. This is not anything like windows
where settings are carried across usernames. The user should be kept away from
the system, in order to protect the system. Which is why you do not take root in vain.

10 Gigs is a small, but useable.

As far as the wifi question. Does the interface come up? You can check by using ifconfig
to see if it does. If so you can add this: dhcpcd <interface name here> to /etc/rc.d/rc.local.
If not you can add: ifconfig <interface name here> up to the same file as well as the dhcp
command above. Make sure the dhcp comand is below the ifconfig command. GUI tools in
Linux are actually pretty ways to use the CLi tools. In order to get a GUI in linux there are
2 processes on top of it, being the xserver and then the DE or WM. You can run any linux
system without X in fact most servers have no X even installed.

Everyone here is trying to help. Linux is not windows, after you learn that, the rest gets easier
since then most ppl start to really understand the system and the effects each decision make.
You do not need to get that involved if you are not interested in it. In fact if all of your hardware
is working after an install, you may never even realize that there are hardware issues.

As far as hardware it is almost impossible to design a distro to make sure that all hardware
works since the 10's of thousands of configurations are not possible to duplicate.

In my years here it has been my experience that no one has given up trying to help anyone
that has questions, even if the person we try to help gets frustrated and agitated to the point
of tantrums. That is one thing that makes this forum great.

In almost 99% of the cases there is an answer to your question that has been answered
somewhere else. There are many here including my self that happen to have Google foo,
and are willing to teach others. Searching before answering may get you an answer faster.
Asking the question the right way (there are many posts on that online) will also increase
the speed in which answers can be given.

The probably the last thing since this is getting long. You will notice that many of the responses
are links to other sites. The reason is two fold. One why retype what someone else has written,
and servers cost money. Someone is paying that bill, which can be pretty hefty if there is alot
of traffic.

I do hope that this has helped in explaining all of the other posts including my own. If the
wireless problem continues please post and someone will respond.

Bigpaws
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caitlyn
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 06:09:07 pm »

If memory serves OpenOffice only takes up about 150MB for a full install.  You should be abel to let it install normally without any worries about filling up your root partition.  Just install the latest and greatest using slapt-get or gslapt.  I think you may need to enable the testing repository to do that.

Of course, if you need to install additional language dictionaries that will take extra space.  I have three languages fully installed and it's still not all the much bigger.

I agree with bigpaws:  nobody was calling you dumb or talking down to you.  Some of us may have put our teachers' hats on which is pretty normal when someone is trying to learn.  All of us were new to Linux at one point or another and should remember being where you are today.

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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
The Headacher
Louder than you
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2008, 06:18:10 am »

actually, my openoffice package (openoffice.org-2.4.0_en_US-i586-1vl59) takes almost 400 .
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caitlyn
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2008, 12:04:05 pm »

Ouch!  I guess I didn't remember correctly.  Still, he's got several gigs of free space so doing a normal install still shouldn't be a problem. 
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
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