How do you install downloaded software?

[bigpaws]

Well lets go one by one.

1. Not enough information to answer that. What WM or DE are you
    using?

2. Depends on how you installed it. If you compiled it you will need to
    find what directories are used the remove them. If you installed the
    package with packagetool or gslapt then you can use them to unistall.
    No there is no registry like windows (Gnome has something that could be
    though of as that).

3. To start an application you can add them to /etc/rc.d/rc.local. You are thinking 
     about Windows.  What is it that you are trying to do that needs
     a graphical interface? Why VNC (Not an ecrypted conection) instead of using
     ssh with X-forwarding. At least make a ssh tunnel for VNC. No one needs to be
     logged in for services to be available. IIRC the password is for the current username
     and password, but I do not use these services.

4. The VNC forum maybe be a place to go.

Your post is showing that you are looking at Linux and expecting it to act like
Windows. This type of thinking will get you lost in a hurry. There is so much to
start with. Understanding the Unix philosophy and the file structure will help.

Bigpaws

[wcs]

Why do I feel guilty when I mention Windows in a LINUX forum. Kind of like going to an AA meeting with a hangover.

 

Nothing wrong with mentioning Windows... or using it, for that matter.
But like bigpaws said, a lot of things are different. Sometimes migrating to another operating system can be a bit of a pain, because you need to forget a lot of things you knew... That's what I found most interesting about migrating from Windows. The realisation that things can be done in very different ways. Though it requires work  to learn the new stuff, it's kind of an eye-opener...

As for TightVnc, I'm preparing a HowTo to get it going through ssh (with x11vnc as server)
Hey, caitlyn, I was looking at packaging tightvnc, but by all means go for it if you have the time. I'm just crazily busy for the next days/weeks.

[caitlyn]

1> This brings me to 4 questions. How do I move an app from one menu to another?  I want both VNC server and viewer in the same menu.

As Bigpaws suggested, that depends on the desktop environment or window manager you are using.  Some have menu editors that can make it pretty easy to do this through the GUI.  Some do not and you have to edit a file in a text editor.  Let us know what you are using for the desktop and then we can answer the questions.

2> How do you uninstall an app, and will uninstall remove the executable's as well as all the lib stuff? (Does LINUX have the equivalent of a Windows Registry?)

There is no equivalent of the Windows Registry, thankfully.  gslapt, slapt-get, or removepkg all handle this automatically.  If you uninstall a package with gslapt all the files it installed will be removed.

3> How do you make an app start on boot up?  I want the VNC server to run when the system boots. This also begs the question, on a headless system, the system needs to boot without asking for a login or password to load the boot apps. Can you start VNC server before the login screen?

Bigpaws answered this one.  You need to edit the rc.local file as root in a text editor.

4>What is the appropriate forum to ask questions about running VNC in Vector?

Networking and Security.

[phreon]

Hi Folks,

The help has been really great. I *am* looking at LINUX with my Windows glasses on. Is there a tutorial that walks new users through LINUX? I have done searches and found some fairly good explanations of LINUX but my problem remains I am pretty good at windows and want to do the same level things in LINUX; but I am frustrated with needing advanced stuff before I have a LINUX foundation. I will keep at it.

My answers to your questions...

1. Not enough information to answer that. What WM or DE are you
    using?

The default one that comes with Vector Standard Gold.

2. Depends on how you installed it. If you compiled it you will need to
    find what directories are used the remove them. If you installed the
    package with packagetool or gslapt then you can use them to unistall.
    No there is no registry like windows (Gnome has something that could be
    though of as that).

I used Caitlyn's suggestion ... "installpkg tightvnc-1.3.8-i586-4vl58.tlz"

3. To start an application you can add them to /etc/rc.d/rc.local. You are thinking
     about Windows.  What is it that you are trying to do that needs
     a graphical interface? Why VNC (Not an ecrypted conection) instead of using
     ssh with X-forwarding. At least make a ssh tunnel for VNC. No one needs to be
     logged in for services to be available. IIRC the password is for the current username
     and password, but I do not use these services.

I have several headless Windows computers that I use Wake On Lan to fire up, and VNC to control. They boot and then start the VNC server. I can operate any of my networked computers this way. I have just changed an older HP to Vector LINUX to learn LINUX and hope to eventually use LINUX on all but one machine. I am not familiar with ssh tunnel for VNC or ssh with x-forwarding. I suspected that I could view a LINUX desktop remotely but have no clue how.
As to adding an application to /etc/rc.d/rc.local, where can I learn the syntax?

4. The VNC forum maybe be a place to go.

I will try that.

Thanks again
P

[caitlyn]

The help has been really great. I *am* looking at LINUX with my Windows glasses on.

As wcs suggested that is only natural.  We all work based on what we are used to.  Vector Linux has a great group of people in the forum and in the wider community.  I think you'll find that people tend to be very helpful, very friendly, and very patient.  Another good place to ask general Linux questions are the forums by LinuxChix, particularly techtalk.  If you're male you're still welcome there.  They don't discriminate by gender on that list.

Is there a tutorial that walks new users through LINUX? I have done searches and found some fairly good explanations of LINUX but my problem remains I am pretty good at windows and want to do the same level things in LINUX; but I am frustrated with needing advanced stuff before I have a LINUX foundation. I will keep at it.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but... Linux For Dummies is very well written.  It's based on Fedora, not Vector, so there are some significant differences (package management, for example) but it's a great book for getting a foundation in Linux even if the title is obnoxious.

In general, though, I've found the best way to learn is to do precisely what you are doing:  jump in with both feet.  Do it and stick with it even if you get frustrated at times.  In my experience peolpe moving from Windows are very frustrated for the first month or two.  After six months most can't imagine how they ever got by using Windows

> The default one that comes with Vector Standard Gold.

There are three provided by default with VL Standard:  Xfce, Fluxbox, and JWM.  The answer is still different for each.  If you are using Xfce you get a mouse logo or the Xfce name after login.

> I used Caitlyn's suggestion ... "installpkg tightvnc-1.3.8-i586-4vl58.tlz"

That means gslapt and slapt-get now know about it.  Good!  gslapt, slapt-get, or removepkg will automatically remove any and all installed files if you use them to remove the package.

> As to adding an application to /etc/rc.d/rc.local, where can I learn the syntax?

rc.local is a shell script written for Bourne shell, the most basic shell on any UNIX or Linux system.  There is no special syntax.  To launch an application you can simply add whatever you would add to launch that same application from the command line to that file.  It really is that simple.

If and when you are ready to learn shell scripting my recommendation would be to buy a book called "Learning the BASH Shell" published by O'Reilly Media.  Barnes and Noble, Amazon.com, Borders, etc... all carry it or you can order it directly from O'Reilly.  You can also purchase a Safari subscription and read the book online.  BASH stands for "Bourne Again Shell", an updated and more powerful version of Bourne shell.  BASH is the default shell on any Linux system.  Every time you open a terminal window you are using bash even if you didn't know it

[wcs]

I used Caitlyn's suggestion ... "installpkg tightvnc-1.3.8-i586-4vl58.tlz"

Then it should be in gslapt. Click update, then search for it, and right-click to remove.
Alternatively, type "removepkg tightvnc" in a console.

As to adding an application to /etc/rc.d/rc.local, where can I learn the syntax?

Just open the file with any text editor (as root) and write the command that launches the server at the end of the file. Whatever commands you write there are going to be executed before you even login.

If you want to autostart an application after you login to your desktop environment (which is xfce, in your case), you can go to Menu --> Settings --> Autostarted Applications.

EDIT: Caitlyn has a good point. It doesn't need to be xfce. It could be any of those three window managers / desktop environments, and there are plenty of others that you can install like KDE or Gnome. It's all about choice in the Linux world. I'm just assuming you're using xfce.

I am not familiar with ssh tunnel for VNC or ssh with x-forwarding

This is being discussed here: http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=7196.0
Hope it helps.

How do I move an app from one menu to another?

This can be a frustrating business when going from Windows to xfce. Other desktop environments like kde can make this easier. But, hey, xfce is lighter and so some features aren't there.
Most of the menu entries are in .desktop files inside /usr/share/applications.
Open a couple of them with a text editor and get familiar with their syntax. Hopefully, to change the icon you want to another menu, you just need to edit the line that says "Categories". It should say Network or System there, so you can change it. It usually doesn't work right away, so I find it easier to move the .desktop file to another location, say, your home directory, which should make the menu entry disappear. Then edit it, and move it again (as root) to /usr/share/applications. It should now appear in the right place.
(To add to the frustration, sometimes what you write in Categories is not exactly the same as the menu titles -- I think you need to write AudioVideo, for example, instead of Multimedia. The best way to learn this is to look at a couple of the .desktop files and see what's going on).

I remember being enraged when I first started using Linux about how something so simple could be made so annoying. That might be a "windows glasses" thing as well. I was used to changing all the windows menus until they were "perfect", but nowadays I really don't care. After all, the .desktop files are (usually) put there by the application developers. But yea, if you want to change it, why shouldn't you? It's just a bit more cumbersome in xfce than in Windows.

[bigpaws]

I have several headless Windows computers that I use Wake On Lan to fire up, and VNC to control.

My question was also what are you trying to do. You may not even need a GUI
to accomplish your goal. Then just using ssh would be fine.

The more services running the more exploits available as attack vectors.

I find that administering Windows clients and servers to be limiting to the
point of frustration. 

Bigpaws

[phreon]

Hi Folks,

In answer to the earlier question my Vector dist uses Xfce as the wm.

I am trying to use all of my machines on one monitor. I want to view and control the desktop of all of these machines and transfer files between them. I use TightVNC on windows and I was going to run the TightVNC server on Vector. (Maybe not anymore)

It seems to be a complex command line process to get the VNC server loaded and running on LINUX. It is a GUI guided process on windows. In LINUX it requires LINUX knowledge that I will not have for awhile. I have abandoned trying to use VNC on Vector for now.

Yesterday I tried to use Gslapt to install Samba in Vector. I have decided to try to make my Vector machine a simple file server for now. It appeared to download and install but I don't see it on any menu. All of its doc's appear to be installed but I can't find the actual app. I tried Catfish to find an executable but it did not find it.  Trying to install stuff is geting old fast. I am sure its due to my errors or lack of knowledge but I am getting the feeling that LINUX is not as user friendly as Windows yet. In my humble opinion it may lack consistancy and it is not as complete a graphical user interface. (Or I may just be LINUX challenged.)  I read about a Samba install here , http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS9015653445.html , and it looked so easy!?

Can anyone tell me where Samba may be on my machine?

Thanks
P

[newt]

I can certainly understand the frustration you're having but the process really is much easier than it "seems" to be.  I believe that most of your frustration stems from trying to run before you've learned to walk in linux.  Perhaps you could slow down on your linux server dreams and do things more slowly, one at a time.  As you learn things along the way it will make it that much easier down the road.  Probably what will happen in the end is that you will have learned how to accomplish the tasks you want, and knackered your VL install pretty good, so you'll start from scratch and the whole process will go much smoother with your newly-honed, calculated actions.

Installing really is an easy thing.  To be honest, it's a point-and-click thing 95% of the time.  The other 4% it's a single command line process (i.e installpkg name-of-package.tlz).  And the remaining 1% is compiling yourself which has been made much easier with vpackager, but is still very easy via command line.

Installing VNC is easy: download the package from the 5.8 repository, open a shell, navigate to the directory where you downloaded the package, su to root, type 'installpkg tightvnc-package-name.tlz'.  Starting the server is simply another single command (e.g. vncserver start).

Hang in there phreon... you are on the steep part of the trail and trying to run up it.  Just slow down and you'll find the journey much more rewarding.

[caitlyn]

newtor is 100% correct.  I do Linux/UNIX for a living and I've seen I don't know how many people go through the learning curve.  In my experience people migrating from WIndows absolutely hate Linux for the first month or two and are terribly frustrated because it's different that what they are used to.  After six months they wonder how they ever managed with Windows at all.  Linux isn't harder it's just different and you need time to adjust.  It's a completely different way of thinking about your computer.

Think of this:  no more virii, trojans, or worms, no need even for anti-virus software.  No more malware or spyware if you keep your system updated.  No more defragging the hard drive because that just isn't needed with a proper, professional filesystem.   Faster performance in most cases.  No need to install firewall software because it's all built in.  No more need to buy software because most everything you need is freely available or included at no cost.  I could go on but you get the point.

Just hang in there...

[phreon]

Thanks for your enthusiasm Caitlyn and Newtor,

I have to believe there is much to recommend LINUX and the Vector flavor. I have read about the advantages of the OS years before. I will stay with it for awhile.

So ... where so you think Samba install went? Its supposed to be under the networks menu.

Thanks
P

[newt]

VL 5.9 Standard comes with a version of samba preinstalled, so I'm guessing that you've upgraded samba to a later version.  Assuming it has upgraded properly then everything should be good to work.  Samba, in the command line, is abbreviated as 'smb'; so if you type 'smb' and hit TAB you'll see all of the various samba-related tools.

Samba, in and of itself, is not a GUI application; therefore, no menu entries are created.  There are many GUI frontends (i.e. guis that overlay on samba) and VL 5.9 Standard comes with (at least) pyNeighborhood and vlsmbmnt (vector linux samba mount).  Think of pyNeighborhood as the old Win98 Network Neighborhood, and vlsmbmnt as an even reduced version of that.  These tools allow you to connect to other computers on the network within certain workgroups or domains.  Are they the most user friendly and graphically sophisticated tool? No, but they do their job - which really is all you need.  In the past, I've found that I have to use pyNeighborhood as root to accomplish successful mounting - YMMV.

To have your system act as a file server I believe you'll want to run the samba server daemon (smbd), but since I've never ventured down this path I cannot be certain.

If ever you're wondering what a command does then you should always try typing 'man name_of_command' (e.g. man smbd) to get the documentation of that specific command.  Use your arrow keys to scroll the text and 'q' to quit looking at the documentation.

Does this help?

[caitlyn]

I'll also add that Samba can be turned on and off from the GUI using vasmCC (a/k/a Control Center) or vasm.  It's not a separate menu item.  It's included in the larger system configuration tools.

There is also a web admin tool for Samba called SWAT.  I don't know if the VL build of Samba includes SWAT since I don't run Windows here. I'm very comfortable at the command line so I just use that to configure Samba for my clients.  Maybe someone else can help you administer Samba from Firefox.

newtor:  FYI, there is an upgraded samba package in our patches repository.  There were security vulnerabilities in the version on the iso.  I'm hoping all phreon did was install the upgraded version with gslapt which is a smart thing to do.

[bigpaws]

Samba, in the command line, is abbreviated as 'smb'; so if you type 'smb' and hit TAB you'll see all of the various samba-related tools.

smb is a protocol not an abbreviation of Samba, please make sure the statements you are
making are correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Message_Block

Samba is configured by a file called smb.conf.

Your mentioning a complete graphical user interface. Everything in Linux is a command line
executeable. The GUI is not built in but built upon Linux. There is an X server and then a WM
or DE on top of that. All of this is to control things in a graphical way. This is not the way it began.

HTH

Bigpaws

[newt]

Samba, in the command line, is abbreviated as 'smb'; so if you type 'smb' and hit TAB you'll see all of the various samba-related tools.

smb is a protocol not an abbreviation of Samba, please make sure the statements you are
making are correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Message_Block

Samba is configured by a file called smb.conf.

Your mentioning a complete graphical user interface. Everything in Linux is a command line
executeable. The GUI is not built in but built upon Linux. There is an X server and then a WM
or DE on top of that. All of this is to control things in a graphical way. This is not the way it began.

HTH

Bigpaws

Learn something new everyday!  Thanks BP!