VL6-Light Alpha

[nightflier]

   EDIT: Please find the most recent version here:
   http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-6.0/iso-test/
   ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First draft of Light is available.
http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-current/iso-test/VL6-Light-A0.10.iso
md5sum: a0b6f0d110616320c7ab428ed5d8455a
Testers please post results, opinions and requests below.
___________________________________________________________________________
Changelog:

September 2008: VL6-Light-A0.9. Internal use only.
Started with VL6-Std-A0.9 and stripped it down to basics.
Added JWM for basic X functionality.


October 20, 2008: VL6-Light-A0.10:

Upgraded all packages to most current versions.

Added required:
icewm-1.2.35-i586-1vl60
VL customizations for Icewm (menu generator, logout menu, theme, vsetbrowser, fbrun, wallpapers)
UltimateGnome-1.0-noarch-1vl60 (custom pkg)
gtkdialog-0.7.9-i586-1vl60 (custom pkg)
kdm-small-3.5.9-i586-2vl60 (custom pkg)
vkdmconfig (custom utility for manipulating KDM)
gtk-theme-switch-ex-2.0.0-i586-1vl60 (custom pkg)
gtk-engines-2.14.1-i586-1gsb
pcmanfm-0.5-i586-1vl60
gtkfind-1.1-i586-1vl60
audacious-1.5.0-i486-2
audacious-plugins-1.5.0-i486-2
gqview-2.1.5-i486-2

Added optional:
wicd+deps (composite package: wicd-1.5.3-noarch-1vl59, dbus-python-0.82.4-i486-1, pycairo-1.4.12-i486-1, pygobject2.14.1-i486-1, pygtk-2.12.1-i486-2)
madwifi-r3856_20080903_2.6.25.15-i486-1vl6 (custom pkg, removes ath5k module)
pidgin-2.4.1-i486-1
gftp-2.0.18-i486-3
hv3-nightly_08_0203-i586-1vl60
opera-9.51-i386-1vl60
rxvt-unicode-9.02-i586-2vl60
vlc-0.9.3-i586-1vl59
xine (composite package: xine-ui-0.99.5-i686-1 and xine-lib-1.1.15-i686-1vl60)

Modified:
vburn-0.6.1-noarch-1vl60: minor tweaks.
wicd-1.5.3-noarch-1vl59: modified wicd-client to call "vsuper wicd" if wicd not running.

[M0E-lnx]

Are you using the GUI installer on this or you sticking to the text installer?

You may also want to consider GDM rather than KDM because GDM allows locale switching in a snap. Also, lxsession-lite is supposed to play nicely with GDM.

the light version should be consistent with the std version IMO.

[nightflier]

Since this is aimed at older/slower computers, it sacrifices much of the functionality of Std, including the GUI installer (at least for now, things have been known to change ).

My thoughts are actually to remove or make KDM optional, as well as boot splash screens. Another next step will be to reduce the compression of the bulks, swelling the size to fill a CD. This may seem backwards for a "Light" version, but experience suggests that high compression leads to long install times and possibly errors on the old and tired machines that are common candidates for this edition.

[M0E-lnx]

Very true on the compression deal.

[nightflier]

VL6-Light-A0.11.iso is available:
http://vectorlinux.osuosl.org/veclinux-current/iso-test/VL6-Light-A0.11.iso
md5sum 0e87cffb654ceb6063780d4068183fc9

This should be a relatively complete base suitable for building upon. If there are some intrepid testers out there, feedback would be welcome.

________________________________________________
Changelog, October 24, 2008: VL6-Light-A0.11:

Re-compressed bulks using lzma -2. This increases the size of ISO, but makes for much faster installation on slower computers.

Added required:
iputils-s20070202-i486-2

Added optional:
cups-1.3.9-i486-1vl6
ghostscript-8.62-i486-5
gutenprint-5.0.2-i486-1

Changed:
zxmisc:
#doinst.sh:
- Added check for cups installed and if so, add entry about documentroot to cupsd.conf
- Replaced libsmbclient.so.0.0 file with symlink to libsmbclient.so.0
- Remove dir /etc/bonobo-activation
- Remove dir /etc/gnome
- Remove dir /etc/gnome-vfs-2.0
- Remove dir /etc/gconf
- Remove dir /etc/httpd
- Remove dir /etc/avahi
#files:
- Edited /usr/bin/wicd-client, added 1 sec delay
- Edited /etc/skel/.config/pcmanfm/main for wallpaper Norway_Moon.jpg
- Removed /sbin/vkdmconf
- Removed /usr/share/applications/kdm-setup.desktop
- Added /usr/bin/browser (wrote new one to replace old version)
- Added symlink /usr/bin/htmlview -> browser
- Edited .icewm/menu_withicons and menu_noicons to launch vsetbrowser on first browser launch
- Edited /sbin/vsetbrowser to offer launcing selected browser

kdm-small-3.5.9-i586-2vl60.tlz:
- Added /sbin/vkdmconf
- Added /usr/share/applications/kdm-setup.desktop
- Changed name to kdm-small-3.6.0-i586-1vl60.tlz:
- Moved package from "required" to "x11"

Upgraded:
ispell-3.2.06-i386-1 > ispell-3.3.02-i586-2vl60

Removed:
audacious-1.5.0-i486-2
audacious-plugins-1.5.0-i486-2

[caitlyn]

I've got 0.11 running now.  Most of my comments are positive ones.  Most everything seems to work

Some comments:

1.  Boot hangs for a VERY long time at Performing Coldplugging
2.  JWM was nicely configured in 5.9 Light.  It's bare bones now.  I hope that will change.
3.  Nice to see HV3 offered
4.  wicd is painfully slow on my Toshiba Satellite 1805-S204 (1 GHz Celeron processor, 512MB RAM).  This matches my experience with Zenwalk.  IMHO, wicd is completely inappropriate for a "Light" version.  People will try it and you'll get tons of complaints.
5.  Some kind of office apps are needed.  If AbiWord and Gnumeric (with all their GNOME dependencies) are too large I'm pleased to say I'll have a SIAG Office package posted for VL 6.0 shortly.  Osmo (already in repo) would be another nice addition.
6.  A CLI FTP client would be a good idea too.
7.  No version of VL 6 so far successfully handles a reboot on this laptop.  Ubuntu is the only distro that does.
8.  vxconf still gives me a mini display surrounded by black.  fbdev works correctly.
9.  Install wasn't slow at all.  I don't know what you're complaining about with that 
10.  Do we need mplayer AND vlc and xine in a light version?  I still like old fashioned xmms for playing audio files or CDs.  A CLI mp3 player would be a nice addition too for those with really old hardware.
11.  Why ispell rather than the newer and more capable aspell?  If you're planning on incorporating Emacs or SIAG then ispell makes sense.  Otherwise it really doesn't.  There are more dictionaries for aspell as well.

Is GDM Included now?  I installed kdm and I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have done.  I much prefer GDM for the reason already mentioned 

It's fast, it's snappy, and I like the Norwegian wallpapers   So far this looks very good and surprisingly ready for prime time.

Next step:  trying it on my Toshiba Libretto SS1010 (233MHz Pentium MMX, 64 MB RAM).

-Cait

[kidd]

I haven't tried vl-light , but I'll dare to suggest some things based on comments in this thread

6.  A CLI FTP client would be a good idea too.
10.  Do we need mplayer AND vlc and xine in a light version?  I still like old fashioned xmms for playing audio files or CDs.  A CLI mp3 player would be a nice addition too for those with really old hardware.

6.- lftp ? it's the most advanced (and user friendly at the same time) ftp client.  It also does scp, and sftp.
10.- mocp is a server-client mp3 mplayer. its default frontend is cli, but one can install graphical ones if needed. It's super scriptable, so we could even think of doing a super-light graphical front end.

---

Now that we're at the start of the split between std and light, I'd like to ask for perl 5.10 to be bundled in both.  If you want me to help, just PM, but AFAIK, installing perl 5.10 is as easy as ./con figure && make install

btw, I'll try vl6 light tonight

[nightflier]

10.  Do we need mplayer AND vlc and xine in a light version?

No. Mplayer will stay, because of the browser plug-in. I do like to have an alternative, though. Xine is my personal favorite.

Is GDM Included now?

No. Fallback is XDM. It's as barebone as current iteration of JWM

@kidd: Thanks for the suggestions. Will check them out.

[caitlyn]

I'd like to request that two font packages from X.org be included:

font-adobe-100dpi
font-adobe-75dpi

These Type 1 fonts are important for some older apps that explicity call fonts like Helvetica, Courier, or Times.  The package I am most familiar with is SIAG Office 3.6.1 which will not run without Helvetica.  I could package their Latin2 font kit, the SIAG solution for this, but it is actually a larger collection that the two packages above.  I'd rather go with the standard X package than create duplication.

For now I'm building the SIAG package with the above listed as dependencies.  The problem is that I know SIAG is hardly unique in this regard.

Re: xdm.  Having that as a fallback is actually a really good idea.  It's the lightest and smallest of the display managers so for someone with truly minimal equipment (i.e.: a system with 32-64MB of RAM) their system will boot much faster with xdm than with gdm or kdm.  OTOH, there are other lightweight choices with more features.  Wolvix uses Slim which will allow a user to choose their session type.  Before my old Liberty system died (133MHz Pentium, 32MB of RAM) I used wdm (from WindowMaker) which also offered session choices and was pretty darned fast loading up.  Just food for thought...

Regards,
Cait

[GrannyGeek]

>> font-adobe-100dpi
font-adobe-75dpi

These Type 1 fonts are important for some older apps that explicity call fonts like Helvetica, Courier, or Times.  >>

Aren't those bitmapped fonts? Type 1 fonts are scalable and don't have a dpi designation (not that I've ever seen, anyway).
--GrannyGeek

[nightflier]

I'd like to request that two font packages from X.org be included:

font-adobe-100dpi
font-adobe-75dpi

I installed the above fonts from repo, then siag. The apps XEdPlus, gvu and XFiler launch okay, but Pathetic Writer returns this:
Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-helvetica-medium-r-*-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*" to type FontStruct
Panic: can't load any fonts!

Installed all remaining fonts with adobe in the name, same result.

[caitlyn]

I just launched Pathetic Writer and it's fine.  Two possibilities: somehow your Helvetica font got corrupted or else your font cache is incomplete.  Try doing two things.

Solution one:

Code:

fc-cache -f
xset fp rehash

...and try relaunching PW.  If that doesn't work please try it after a reboot.  I have 6.0 with SIAG Office running on two systems and PW works on both.

GrannyGeek:  You are probably correct.  I saw Adobe and also looked at the Latin2 hit which has a Helvetica Type 1 font and didn't think and just assumed.  They are almost certainly pcf fonts.  That was the standard for XFree86 way back when and SIAG retains a whole lot of legacy stuff even though it's a more recent version.

[nightflier]

Code:

fc-cache -f
xset fp rehash

There we go, that fixed it. Gonna play with it some then.   

[caitlyn]

OK, you just uncovered an interesting little bug in VL6, both Light and Standard.  Since you don't include all the X.org packages we have to assume that some people will choose to install additional font packages later.  If those packages are installed and fc-cache isn't run those fonts appear not to be installed.  The second command rehashes the font path which is important if a new directory is created in /usr/share/fonts.

The solution:  add the two commands I gave you to doinst.sh for each font package.  It never does any harm to run these commands and it sure won't hurt anything to make that addition.  I have done this in every extra font package I've built for VL since 5.8.  Never had a single complaint about it

[caitlyn]

One more thing:  SIAG (the spreadsheet) and PW (the word processor) are really feature poor compared to AbiWord and Gnumeric, but... they run fast even on a Pentium 133 with 32MB of RAM.  I know this because I've tried it   SIAG and PW are the only two apps in the suite that I think are worthwhile and I could, conceivably build a package with just those two apps and the plugins if you want to include them in Light.  The only disadvantage of this is that unless we hack the SIAG code they will still appear in the menus within the remaining apps.

I honestly don't think we need another lightweight file manager or text editor.  OTOH, I do like having everything in the menus functional.