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Author Topic: VL packages and dependencies  (Read 4391 times)
sgla1
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Posts: 25


« on: January 13, 2009, 11:31:16 pm »

Hi all,

I was gonna install the vl package for rdesktop but it appeared to require almost the whole gnome desktop as dependencies.  So I grabbed the slackware rdesktop package which installed np.

Did I misread something, or does the vl rdesktop package really have that many dependencies, and if so why?  In general do vl packages have a lot of dependencies?

Thanks,
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caitlyn
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2009, 01:18:16 am »

I am assuming you are running one of the release candidates for Vector Linux 6.0.  If so the reason rdekstop has so many dependencies is because it really isn't a Vector Linux package.  It's a gsb (GNOME SlackBuild) package and those all seem to want most of GNOME.  Real Vector Linux packages do NOT have excessive dependencies.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
sgla1
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Posts: 25


« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2009, 10:08:30 pm »

You are correct.  I am running VL 6 RC2, and waiting for the final release.  Since there's no "slapt-get dist-upgrade".  Ahem, cough cough. ;-)
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caitlyn
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2009, 07:06:00 am »

You know, the last time I tried a dist-upgrade on an Ubuntu system I ended up with something severely broken.  In place upgrades are often problematic on any distro. 

In theory slapt-get --dist-upgrade does exist.  In practice some people have tried it with poor results so we warn people against it. 
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
Colonel Panic
Vectorian
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Posts: 526


« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2009, 08:45:35 am »

Caitlyn, is there backwards compatibility with VL packages?

I've got a directory full of Vector 5.8 .tlz packages. Will I be able to install and use them in Vector 6.0 (and 5.9 if I wanted), or do I have to replace them all?
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kidd
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Vectorian
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Posts: 682


« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2009, 08:54:20 am »

you'll have to rebuild them or slapt-get them.

If you have enough time, you could build slackbuilds for them, and have them uploaded in the repos to be available for everyone.

If a new vl version comes out, rerunning the slackbuild should give you a ready to use binary, and you could upload it to the repos again to be available......
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Colonel Panic
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Posts: 526


« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2009, 01:08:04 am »

So no, in other words? I'm on dialup so slapt-getting OpenOffice, for example, isn't an option. It might be for the smaller packages but if this is correct it still involves replacing all the .tlz packages whenever there's a new version of Vector.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 01:17:18 am by Colonel Panic » Logged
kidd
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Posts: 682


« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2009, 02:28:00 am »

vl6 uses diferent toolchain version, so vl6 packages aren't backwards compatible.

Maybe 5.8 and 5.9 can be used one for other. but it's not recommendable if you're in a production machine. Apocalypse is next door.

I'm sorry Colonel Panic.  I've gon no other solutions for you Sad
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uelsk8s
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 2504



« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2009, 08:56:30 am »

So no, in other words? I'm on dialup so slapt-getting OpenOffice, for example, isn't an option. It might be for the smaller packages but if this is correct it still involves replacing all the .tlz packages whenever there's a new version of Vector.
Some packages, like Open office, are repackaged for VL and never were built on our toolchain. OO should be fine, others i wouldnt promise anything.

HTH,
Uelsk8s
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Colonel Panic
Vectorian
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Posts: 526


« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2009, 02:37:37 pm »

No it's not much of a problem because I'm using 5.8 at the moment - in fact I'm posting from Opera 9.63, the latest stable version of Opera, which runs fine in 5.8.

I was basically testing the waters for an upgrade to 5.9 or 6.0, which at the moment doesn't seem such a good idea without broadband to download the new packages - so I suppose it's me who ought to be sorry.

@Uelsk8s; thanks for the info.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 02:44:49 pm by Colonel Panic » Logged
caitlyn
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2009, 04:46:02 pm »

@Colonel Panic:  You might want to wait for 6.0 Deluxe and get a bunch of stuff in the mail Smiley  My concern about 5.8 is that we no longer have volunteer packagers for it so security vulnerabilities don't get patched like they used to.

Back when I had dialup I remember starting long downloads before heading out of the house or even to run overnight.  Unless you are charged for connection time that might be a reasonable thing to do.

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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
Colonel Panic
Vectorian
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Posts: 526


« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2009, 01:43:10 pm »

Thanks for your reply Caitlyn, but as for the security vulnerabilities thing, can't you just use the Vector firewall to deal with that? I don't want to be forever downloading newer versions of stuff I use once I've got my system set up right.

As I said, at the moment I've got Firefox 2.0.0.20 and Opera 9.63 which are both the latest versions so I think I should be OK.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 01:45:30 pm by Colonel Panic » Logged
caitlyn
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Posts: 2876


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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2009, 02:36:06 pm »

Firewalls are not at all foolproof.  So, no, that's not really adequate protection.  Besides, if you use a vulnerable tool to communicate through the firewall...  I'm sure you get the point.

Some good news for you:  Uelsk8s built 62 packages for VL 5.8, a final set of updates.  Some deal with security and some don't. 

The bad news:  these are the last set of updates for VL 5.8.  When 6.0 releases there will be a formal End of Life announcement for 5.8.  The repo will go into the "attic" with VL 5.1 and prior.

One upgrade every 2+ years is reasonable, IMHO.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
sgla1
Member
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Posts: 25


« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2009, 04:55:30 pm »

You know, the last time I tried a dist-upgrade on an Ubuntu system I ended up with something severely broken.  In place upgrades are often problematic on any distro. 

In theory slapt-get --dist-upgrade does exist.  In practice some people have tried it with poor results so we warn people against it. 

I thought I would mention this just to annoy you all...

I have done many dist-upgrades in place on pure debian systems (in commercial service, too) and they haven't failed yet.  If you want a rock-solid server and don't have to have the latest bleeding edge crapola (like our devs, ahem)... 

I just upgraded a box running that brown distro from 6.06LTS to 8.04LTS.  It went pretty well, a few minor problems with replacement config files, services not started, etc.  Pretty good considering the extensive architectural changes.

Just mentioning...  :-)
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caitlyn
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2009, 09:09:53 pm »

You know, if our repositories were in perfect shape it's just possible that Slackware apt is mature enough for --dist-upgrade to work.  Our repos aren't that good yet.  In the last couple of years we've also had a couple of sets of changes of repository managers.

If --dist-upgrade is that important to you then I really do recommend that you go with a distro that can handle it.  OTOH, I used to work for Red Hat and they don't even recommend in-place upgrades for their Enterprise offerings.  My miserably failed in-place Ubuntu upgrade was from 6.06LTS to 6.10.  Obviously, YMMV.  I stand by my recommendation of no in-place upgrades on any distro unless you are ready for failure.  If it works, great.  Don't count on it.

Let's be fair here.  Vector Linux just doesn't have the financial resources of Canonical or the large volunteer community of Debian.  This is a smaller distro.  There are some areas we just can't compete with unless we grow that large.  At least VL manages to get releases out just about once a year per version.  Debian gets them out once every blue moon if the planets align.

Seriously, every distro has strengths and weaknesses.  In-place upgrades generally don't work for VL.  I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Logged

eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
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