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Author Topic: My Wife Loves VL 5.8.....  (Read 2767 times)
never_stop_learning
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« on: March 09, 2009, 05:25:39 pm »

Need some guidance, please.....

My lovely bride would not even go near a computer until she quit trying to work with windoze and I installed VL 5.8 on her computer 2+ years ago..... What is my problem, you ask? She absolutely refuses to let me update her tower to 5.9 or 6.0. Won't even consider it. Says 5.8 works just fine for her and she sees no need to change. I keep 5.8 updated but it has got to be nearing its practical 'end of life'.

So.....how much longer do you estimate she will be able to use 5.8 before there is no choice and an upgrade is required to maintain security and access to the latest browsers, etc.....?
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Laptop: IBM X60s (Centrino/Duo, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Netbook: HP Mini (Intel Atom 1ghz, 2gb ram, 16gb SSD + 8gb flash ) VL 6.0 Std
Desktop: Dell Dimension 5150 (P4 3ghz, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Wife's Desktop: Gateway (P4 2ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Windozer
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 05:32:54 pm »

Caitlyn announced recently that 5.8 is ending
    
"Vector Linux 5.8 Reaches End Of Life"

http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=8550.0

- H
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483,617th Registered Linux Snoozer
Jack Matier
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 05:57:18 pm »

She has it set up to her liking..

I doubt she's going to want to install something new... and if she does most of what's available for slackware is available for Vector (linuxpackages anyone?)

The new 6.0 is really cool and indeed slick.. but I'm sure she'd be fine to wait until 7.0 comes around.. when other products are about 2 major versions ahead of what they were in 5.8. In the world of common household computing, being two years "behind" is not out of date. Being 5 years behind is common, end of life or not. Bleeding edge in the outside world is really just having the current version of everything, not the current beta or alpha.

Just wait.. before you know it 7 will come around.. she'll see you use it and say "hey neat, I think it's time"... and you'll dutifully upgrade her system like the wonderfully geeky husband you are.

Or.. if you insist. What reason is there for her to upgrade:
- Well.. it's not newer system components...
- It's not going to bring any noticeable speed for the internet.. or daily computing.
- Her browser and everything works just fine thank you very much.
- If her system is already stable, there wont be any new ground covered here.

Point is.. it has to be something noticeable.

You may have a case with "end of life", depends on the gal.

Let me/us know how it goes.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 06:57:53 pm by Jack Matier » Logged
rbistolfi
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 06:46:43 pm »

SW will keep releasing security patches for the version 5.8 was built on, you probably will be alright with those.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

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Jumalauta!!
caitlyn
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 08:25:08 pm »

linuxpackages.net has provided me with some awful packages.  Some good ones too but a lot of bad ones.  I won't use it anymore.  slacky.eu is much better.

In any case not everything in VL 5.8 is in Slackware.   Some won't be found in any repo other than VL.  She is using a vulnerable system and it will only get worse.  Ask her how much she will like it if some cracker breaks in and 1) messes with her system just because he/she can or 2) steals her identity.  VL 6.0 also has a bigger repo with more cool apps she just might like.

My .02...  upgrade and stick with 6.0 for two years.

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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
nightflier
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 05:11:47 am »

Tough one, as the question is not just a technical one. I think you should use only gentle suggestions and not force a change unless absolutely necessary. Internet browsers and email clients can be kept up to date using code from the original providers even after the repo goes static. You can build packages from source code. Your computer savvy will be noticed and appreciated.

Remember: "When mama's happy, everybody's happy. Ain't mama happy, ain't nobody happy!".
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never_stop_learning
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 09:23:48 am »

linuxpackages.net has provided me with some awful packages.  Some good ones too but a lot of bad ones.  I won't use it anymore.  slacky.eu is much better.

In any case not everything in VL 5.8 is in Slackware.   Some won't be found in any repo other than VL.  She is using a vulnerable system and it will only get worse.  Ask her how much she will like it if some cracker breaks in and 1) messes with her system just because he/she can or 2) steals her identity.  VL 6.0 also has a bigger repo with more cool apps she just might like.

My .02...  upgrade and stick with 6.0 for two years.



Maintaining system security is my biggest concern.....
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Laptop: IBM X60s (Centrino/Duo, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Netbook: HP Mini (Intel Atom 1ghz, 2gb ram, 16gb SSD + 8gb flash ) VL 6.0 Std
Desktop: Dell Dimension 5150 (P4 3ghz, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Wife's Desktop: Gateway (P4 2ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
tomh38
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 01:58:55 pm »

This is a tough one, but I'm going to have to go with nightflier on this one.  As important as security is, it's her computer and her life, so she gets to say what goes on her machine.  I wouldn't push too hard.

Having said that, I just have one question.  Has your wife seen VL 5.9 or 6.0?  Does she know that as far as GUI stuff is concerned the more recent versions look and act (or can be customized to look and act) almost exactly the same as 5.8?  If you feel the need to convince her for the sake of security, that might help change her mind.

Tom
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"I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." - Linus Torvalds, April 1991
never_stop_learning
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 07:14:48 pm »

SW will keep releasing security patches for the version 5.8 was built on, you probably will be alright with those.

Are you referring to kernel, packages or both?
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Laptop: IBM X60s (Centrino/Duo, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Netbook: HP Mini (Intel Atom 1ghz, 2gb ram, 16gb SSD + 8gb flash ) VL 6.0 Std
Desktop: Dell Dimension 5150 (P4 3ghz, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Wife's Desktop: Gateway (P4 2ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
rbistolfi
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Posts: 2288


« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 07:54:12 pm »

Packages for sure, check http://www.slackware.com/security/list.php?l=slackware-security&y=2009
If you check some packages, you will note that some of them have been provided for ancient versions. About kernel, you may want to try one of the recent VL kernels.
You should be able to install all the critical security updates. My humble opinion is that with critical updates and some security layers between yourself and the Internet (like a firewall), you should be fine. I have what I like to call a rational approach to the security problem, meaning that I think that the resources invested in security have to be proportional to the nature of the possible attacks, and that you have to evaluate not only the risks involved in a exploit, but also the involved in an upgrade (there are some, I would put an unhappy wife in this group Cheesy.) From my perspective a home user doesn't need to worry about "user to user" type of attacks. This is a situation for a home user only when he gets attacked from the Internet, if someone is able to exploit a vulnerability, the first thing it might try to do is to get root access and maybe propagate the attack over the local network. Once the attacker is in, we can consider this a "user to user" attack. Now, if you have  good defense between you and Internet, you can keep the probabilities of this happening really low. A good defense from the Internet means to do critical updates, to keep only the necessary services running, to firewall the running services that doesn't need access to -or be accessed from- the Internet, exposing to the www only exactly what you need.
A final warning, I am not a security guru, or a guru of any other kind for that matter. I am just a guy who likes to read. This is my approach and I think each user has to think about this and build its own.

HTH
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
caitlyn
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 07:57:54 pm »

rbistolfi:  It is much easier to maintain a secure system when everything is provided for you by the distro.  It becomes a no-brainer on VL6 where you get a little red notification icon when a patch becomes available and when you can install it with a click.  VL6 makes security (and lots of other things) much easier than VL 5.8.

never_stop_learning:  I would never, ever advocate forcing an upgrade on your wife.  I think tomh asked the right question.  Is there any way you can show her 6.0?  If she decides for herself she will like it better then the problem is solved.
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eMachines EL-1300G desktop, 1.6GHz AMD Athlon 2650e CPU, 4GB RAM, nVidia GeForce 6150 SE video
CentOS 6.5 (will try VL64-7.1 soon)

Toshiba Satellite A135-S4727,  Intel Pentium T2080 / 1.73 GHz, 2GB RAM, Intel GMA 950

HP Mini 110 netbook, 1.6GHz Intel Atom CPU, 2GB RAM, Intel 950 video, VL 7.1
rbistolfi
Packager
Vectorian
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Posts: 2288


« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 08:02:52 pm »

I agree, I always prefer the good way over the easy way though Smiley
I would upgrade to VL6.0 myself, my goal was rather to show the options and not to give a definitive answer to the question.
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"There is a concept which corrupts and upsets all others. I refer not to Evil, whose limited realm is that of ethics; I refer to the infinite."
Jorge Luis Borges, Avatars of the Tortoise.

--
Jumalauta!!
never_stop_learning
Vectorite
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Posts: 263


WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 06:18:38 am »

I have upgraded every other tower and laptop to 6.0. Her tower, and her Mom's tower and laptop, are the only ones still on 5.8.....

I can certainly install an OS and have been able to figure out a few other tasks but I certainly do not consider myself to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination..... I still have to learn how to upgrade the kernel in a Slackware based environment.

We are behind a firewall. I have also enabled the software firewall in 5.8 and locked down all but the ports she needs.... From our discussion, it sounds like she will be OK for now but that the best course of action will be an eventual upgrade to 6.0 and make the user interface as similar and familiar as possible.....

I see trips to the florist and our favorite restaurant in my future.....  Wink  Grin



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Laptop: IBM X60s (Centrino/Duo, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Netbook: HP Mini (Intel Atom 1ghz, 2gb ram, 16gb SSD + 8gb flash ) VL 6.0 Std
Desktop: Dell Dimension 5150 (P4 3ghz, 2gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
Wife's Desktop: Gateway (P4 2ghz, 1gb ram, 80gb hd) VL 6.0 Std
nightflier
Administrator
Vectorian
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Posts: 4026



« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2009, 08:23:33 am »

Very insightful comments here. I have a similar dilemma, as my parents also are on 5.8. It started out as a dual boot with XP, two years ago, in response to five minute bootup times, lock-ups and snail-like performance. By now they have gotten used to VL's speed, stability, and grandchildren-proof design. XP is still available, but not used.

They would be fine with an upgrade, but since they are on another continent, it gets complicated. I set up a different boot profile where a non-standard port is open for ssh. This way I can log in and do updates and changes for them (last time it was setting up a USB printer, they thought that was cool). An OS upgrade would require physical access to the machine.

My brother could re-install XP, but they would soon be back to square one, and I am not convinced it is any safer. Buying a new computer would be expensive, send a perfectly good machine to the junk heap, and involve a steep learning curve.

The perfect solution is not always obvious, or practical.

Flowers and dates are always a good idea!  Grin
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wcs
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Posts: 1144


« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 08:36:06 am »

Quote
I have a similar dilemma, as my parents also are on 5.8. It started out as a dual boot with XP, two years ago, in response to five minute bootup times, lock-ups and snail-like performance.

Same here. My parents are on 5.9, which would be fine, but there are some drivers that I need to compile to get some hardware going. Those drivers are already included in the VL6 kernel.

I guess I could just install a new kernel, but I'd rather go for VL6. The only things they use are Firefox and Skype, so it won't make any difference, if I set it up the same way. They've agreed, but they might not even notice it's a different system.

Th problem now is my father has asked for Windows to be installed (dual-boot)... he thinks it's "more compatible".
It's not really an ideological problem. It's their choice. But it would be a pain in maintenace, as they don't know how to do updates and use anti-virus, firewall, etc...
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