Obscure Programming Languages Review (WAS: 'Libs from slackware repo's?')

[Windozer]

Trying to get the Haskell compiler set up on VL  ---  trying to go from binaries first, build it if I have to.

Whenever I look at doing stuff like this, the libs needed always seem to default to RedHat or Debian - here's one I need:

Generic i386 Linux for libedit0. If you have a file /usr/lib/libedit.so.0 (expected on RedHat and derived distributions) then use this bindist.
This is a complete build, including interactive system, profiling libraries and documentation. whatever.tar.bz2 (70 MB)
Generic i386 Linux for libedit2. If you have a file /usr/lib/libedit.so.2 (expected on Debian and derived distributions) then use this bindist.
This is a complete build, including interactive system, profiling libraries and documentation. whatever-else.tar.bz2 (67 MB)
If you have neither, then you need to install editline. Try looking for a package called something like libedit2 or libedit.

Looking through gslapt's preferences, there's several slackware repos --- I know the answer was posted before, but I can't find it! ( )

Which slackware repo do you all go to first ?

Does this lib look familiar to you?

thanks much for the help,
- Howard

[rbistolfi]

Hi Windozer, Kidd built libedit and it is in testing repo since yesterday. Fun, he compiled it to build the Io programming language, one that a haskell hacker might enjoy as well.
About SW repos, I just go to http://slackware.packages.it and I get the packages from there.

[Windozer]

Howdy, Rodrigo

thanks for the quick reply.

> Kidd built libedit and it is in testing repo since yesterday.

Wow, how's that for syncronicity, eh?!  That'll teach me to refresh the repo list *before* asking for something 

Haven't tried Io, but I'll look at it ... as long as it doesn't resemble O'Caml  or rather 0'Caml 

ciao
- Howard

[Windozer]

SW repos ... http://slackware.packages.it

http://packages.slackware.it

[rbistolfi]

hehe I always write it wrong, glad you got it.

[kidd]

Io is an OOP prototype based interpreted language, with the most simple syntax I've seen (along with lisp and smalltalk).  It's heavily inspired by smalltalk (another of my fetiches), and it allows some cool introspection tricks.

I haven't used it for anything useful, but only playing with it.  Maybe I'll use it as a scripting language for a C++ app I'm writting.  Let's see...

officialSite := http://www.iolanguage.com/
my2BlogEntries := http://puntoblogspot.blogspot.com/search/label/Io
google := www.google.com

[Windozer]

Io is an OOP prototype based interpreted language,  [...]  heavily inspired by smalltalk

Oh Cool!  I love learning new programming languages --- who needs stamp collecting or model trains?

Kidd, I liked smalltalk a lot - went from it to C and Lisp.     

with the most simple syntax I've seen (along with lisp and smalltalk).

Ahh, that would be "(along (with ((lisp) and (smalltalk)))) " 

Clean syntax is one of the reasons I like Ruby too.   Haskell:: a real => Hassle -> I think.

Thanks for the links - will check Io out.

Have you tried O'Caml?

- H

[PS Edit] Just glanced at the tutorial - whoever said "Syntax must be bad, because it has 'Sin' and 'tax' in it?" 

[kidd]

Oh Cool!  I love learning new programming languages --- who needs stamp collecting or model trains?

Kidd, I liked smalltalk a lot - went from it to C and Lisp.    

I'm trying to learn lisp.  I've temporary switched from ratpoison wm to stumpwm (written in lisp), and I'm reading some lisp stuff.   I've already learned really cool tricks that wouldn't be possible in most programming languages I know.

Ahh, that would be "(along (with ((lisp) and (smalltalk)))) " 

I still have problems deciding what should be the correct version
(along (and (with lisp) (with smalltalk)))
(along (with (and lisp smalltalk)))

Have you tried O'Caml?

Nope,

One day, I'd like to try some functional languages, but for the moment, I have enough fun with
imperatives.

Haskell, O'Caml and Erlang are in my TODO, but who knows when will be their time....

Cya !

[Windozer]

I'm trying to learn lisp.  I've temporary switched from ratpoison wm to stumpwm (written in lisp), and I'm reading some lisp stuff.   I've already learned really cool tricks that wouldn't be possible in most programming languages I know.

Interesting - although "stump" sounds a bit dangerious for a place where your hands go near, aka, the keyboard. Do you have to wear safety goggles to code on that wm?     I'm still trying to figure out how to get Xmonad wm to work on VL... not putting too many cycles into the effort, however. I'm stuck at replacing Xfce with XMonad... there are instructions, but they're really ugly 

Do you use emacs? Seems I recall that under the hood it's lisp, or at least it's macros are. (I don't use it myself.)

... what should be the correct version
(along (with (and lisp smalltalk)))

I'll guess that one.

One day, I'd like to try some functional languages, but for the moment, I have enough fun with
imperatives.

Functional languages are supposed to make for better code, but the learning curve is pretty steep, I think.  I use haskell for math stuff, but nothing heavy duty yet.

I've looked at Io more - very intriguing!

ciao,
- H

[kidd]

Never tried Xmonad but I used some of xmonad-related apps (dzen comes to my mind).

I just started using emacs 2 months ago, but I still use vim for any serious editing (I've been a heavy vim user for more than 4 years).  Let's see if I finally 'get' emacs, or  I go back to vim... for the moment, I use emacs to IRC, mysql, and R.  it's cool because I can do the transition slowly, without replacing my editing app, but other apps I couldn't get to behave vim-ish.

As you said, emacs is written in lisp (most part). I haven't messed with emacs configuration too much, but well , it's good enough to test my (very few) lisp skills.

It's a pity Io docs are sparse.  It allows some cool tricks like introspection in a confortable way.

A good resource with some good info and links to pretty much everything io related on the net. http://www.quag.geek.nz/io/getting-started/

Unofficial io site.  Pretty new. Let's see how evolves... http://iolanguage.org/

Cya,

Kidd

[Windozer]

Keep us posted on your progress with emacs - I've tried off and on several times to 'get it' but just can't get past having to recall  the ctrl and alt sequences.  If you don't loose your mind in a couple of emacs-months, it might encourage the meek among us (me included) to go over to the eDark side 

I've just finished studying your Io blog¹⁾

Kidd, your number guesser there is a wonderful code example that shows how spectacularly clean and simple Io is. I would bet that someone with NO programming experience could understand how it works, perhaps with the exception of the first two lines:

Code:

guesser := Object clone
guesser toGuess := Random value(100) ceil

Even then, it's not too hard to figure out. A quick search on the net turns up what 'Object clone' does ²⁾ ... I've barely read any tutorial and I can say: Everything in Io is an object - and "Object" is the fundamental, well, object that Io has as its basis for everything else. Therefore 'guesser' must be a clone of the base object.

You mentioned that you're working on threading with Io --- are all of the foundation or core language objects and libraries threadsafe?

You see, Io is a contagious disease. It affects programmers’ brains. The incubation period is extremely short, due to the simplicity of its syntax. But the damages are extensive ...

Help, I think I've been bitten by the Io Bug!

- H
____________________________________________________________
¹⁾ http://puntoblogspot.blogspot.com/search/label/Io
²⁾ http://ozone.wordpress.com/2006/03/15/blame-it-on-io/

[Windozer]

It's a pity Io docs are sparse. 

Found another Io place to watch:

http://www.nabble.com/io-f14105.html

[kidd]

It's a pity Io docs are sparse. 

Found another Io place to watch:

http://www.nabble.com/io-f14105.html

Yup, maillists are always good info sources. 

Btw, yesterday I posted another Io snippet (xkcdFetcher) .

Ah! I've come to a (IMHO) cool line that can help to understand Io's internals

Code:

Number slotNames foreach(i,
if(Number getSlot(i) type == "Block" ,
(i .. "      ->  " .. Number getSlot(i) code)  println))

You can change 'Number' for another class, and Block for method. The thing is I wanted to see the implementation of all non-CFunctions of core objects.

Of course, adding this as an Object method is trivial, and then, every object will 'magically' have that new instrospection function.

Great, isn't it?

[kidd]

Catastrophe:
http://ioke.org/  first appeared in december 2008, so it's *PRETTY* new.  Not production ready, but, in fact, Io isn't production ready (IMHO) and it has been around since 2002.

OMG, why I don't like stamp collecting or model trains? 

Ciao

[Windozer]

Of course, adding this as an Object method is trivial, and then, every object will 'magically' have that new instrospection function.

Great, isn't it?

You're much further along in Io than me ... I've just basically started ... but I get this. Very very cool.

Ioke

OMG Kidd!  First one, now another ... you're like a programming language drug pusher... get me hooked on one, then give me the hard stuff

- H