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[Windozer]

So you're saying that it costs 2.5 cents just to put your thoughts in now?  I guess that's inflation for you.

Tom,

Well, OK, my contribution rate went up.

Hey, here's a funny, but practical, idea: let's put 2 cents (or fractions of Rubbles, Yen, Euro's - or what have you) in our piggy banks every time we post ...
At the end of the year, take it to the bank, send it to PayPal, and then click that Donate button up there! 

I know several ways to crash or completely destroy a Linux install just by typing in a few commands.

Interesting. Can you do that without having Root priv.?

[...]all operating systems [...] have improved significantly [...] both in terms of stability and ease of use.

Without a doubt.

They main problem I have with Microsoft [...]

I'm with you on all those points.

I think I have a slight disagreement with you on one point.

Actually, after reading what you said there, I'd say we are on the same page. You refined the issues.  Right, the installs of Linux and adding new packages is getting much easier. That's why I didn't do Linux more in the past - it seemed like it took a lot of time, whereas the windows installer was pretty much 'load and go' (that is if you had all the DLL dependencies otherwise it was OH NO!).   However, because of all the flavors of installers across the various distributions, there's a bit of a learning curve, whereas the windows installer - specifically the windows update manager that can pull downloads direct from MS, - is seemless if you've got it set to auto and have the bandwidth. GrannyGeek mentioned somewhere before, what, in essence, is the way many user's rightfully see it: she's less concerned about how something works than that it just does work.  I'm the same way - the more hassle an action is, the less likely I am to get it done. "Plug and Play" has indeed evolved from "Plug and Pray."

Windows partly became as successful as it is today because OEMs started selling machines with Windows pre-installed.  That's happening some with Linux now (netbooks, some other machines).  That's about 3/4 of the battle right there.

Yup, maybe it's more like 90%.  I think it's only those of us who like to dink around with computers who don't have a problem with installing or maintaining stuff.

... most people will be satisfied.  There are other issues (configuration, applications, etc.) but I think those are coming along nicely.

Yes, there's hope for Open Computing. 

ciao,
Howard

[tomh38]

Windoze:

I don't know of a way to hose Linux without root privileges.  Of course there are plenty of ways to bork your system by accident with root privileges, but you didn't need me to tell you that.  I only know of two ways to do it by on purpose.  I'm kind of afraid to post them here, because I'm afraid a new person might think it was interesting and then do it.

On a related topic, I was once in a Linux IRC channel and a newbie came in and asked something like "How do I install an *.exe file in Linux."  Well, there was this one guy who was kind of a mean bastard.  He didn't tell the newbie that he could try it in Wine and that it might not work.  He told the newbie to su to root, and then issue the command "rm -r /" .  Everybody but me (and the newbie, I would imagine) thought that was hilarious.  I never went back to that channel again.

Actually this very subject is related to the subject of Linux adoption.  Some of the older attitudes - RTFM and so on - really need to go.  Unfortunately, some of the most knowledgeable people in the Linux world have that very attitude.  I'm not a big fan of Ubuntu, but I do like what I see a lot in various Ubuntu help forums.  It's kind of similar to the VL forums really; lot's of people trying to help each other out.

Tom

[GrannyGeek]

On a related topic, I was once in a Linux IRC channel and a newbie came in and asked something like "How do I install an *.exe file in Linux."  Well, there was this one guy who was kind of a mean bastard.  He didn't tell the newbie that he could try it in Wine and that it might not work.  He told the newbie to su to root, and then issue the command "rm -r /" .  Everybody but me (and the newbie, I would imagine) thought that was hilarious.  I never went back to that channel again.

Omigosh! That is really mean. Let's tell all the newbies here and the non-newbies whose command line skills are rudimentary (I'm in that category) that the "rm -r /" means delete everything in all the directories under the root directory. In other words, wipe out the whole system. As far as I know, the system doesn't ask you if you really mean it.
--GrannyGeek

[GrannyGeek]

Ask the moderators to ban me from these forums if that's what you want.

Absolutely not! This forum would be a much poorer place without you. A lot less fun, too.

As far as I'm concerned, the air is cleared and we can move on. I appreciate what you wrote.
--GrannyGeek

[tomh38]

GrannyGeek:  Yeah, I probably shouldn't have posted that command.  If anybody reading this is thinking about doing that, don't do it.  It erases everything.  There's even a video on youtube where somebody does it to a Linux install in a virtual machine.  At the end you can see X crashing and the screen (really the window the vm is in) just goes blank.

On another note, thanks for what you wrote, GrannyGeek.  For a while I was actually afraid that you wanted me gone.  I can see that's not true now ... it was an irrational fear.  You may have strong opinions (most people do about something or other) but I've never had reason to believe that you're vindictive.

In my opinion disagreement is normal and can even be helpful.  I know I learned something from our exchange.  Of course whenever there's disagreement you run the risk of misunderstanding, but that's part of life. As long as nobody pulls out a gun and starts shooting, things usually turn out okay.

Be careful, though.  I know Kung-Fu, Tae-Kwon-Do, Jiu-Jitsu, Karate, and a lot of other dangerous words. 

Tom

[StrayBit]

Granny, of course, the same thing can happen in Windows.  We had just installed Win95 from floppies (how many? It seemed like hundreds!)  One of my co-workers wanting to delete every thing on a floppy, issued the command 'del *.*'  forgetting that he was still on C: drive!  I wound up reinstalling and, IIRC, he lost all his work.

[Masta]

Another mention. Not so directly of VL itself, but of the artists. I'm pointing this out, because I feel that it reflects VL and everyone that gets involved, in one way or another.
http://forum.vectorlinux.com/index.php?topic=8398.0;topicseen

[tomh38]

Masta,

I just now looked at your post and the interview with LGU.  I didn't know you were the head of the art team.  I need to pay closer attention.  Also, I think we have great artwork here.  Specifically, I'd like to mention how cool those badges are.

This is deep into ImaginationLand, but it would be fun to have one of those badges in real life.  I'd like to show up at a Linux user's house, flash the badge, and say, "I'm from the VectorLinux police.  We have a warrant to inspect your log files."

"But ... but ..."

"I said we have a warrant.  Things will go a lot better for you if you cooperate and give me some of those Cheetohs.  Now step away from the box.  Oh, I should have said 'boxen.'  All right, do have a license for each install of Crossover Linux here?  We'll need to see that."

"Um ..."

And so on.

Also, who designed the default wallpaper that comes with VL 6 now?  That's some really impressive work also.  Thanks to you and the other artists for making VL so nice to look at.  It's highly professional in quality.  My friends who've seen it always mention how nice VL looks before they say anything else.  Did somebody on the VL art team design the default Xfce theme for VL 6?  Whoever did should know that it's very impressive.

Thanks for your work.

Tom

[Masta]

Well first of all thanks for the flowers over the artwork, and I share that with all those involved.

Now the badges, I do believe we are getting some printed up, if not already. I'll have to check with the sales department to concur on that. As far as I know of, they were going to come with the Deluxe orders, but again I'd have to get with the sales guys n gals to be positive.

Now the wallpaper, That started out with our Vector, he saw an image (I think on kde-look ?) that was inspiring, but it did not quite satisfy what he was looking for. From there it was a "group project" as the developers helped in it's evolution. They had a vision, and there it is. 

Now the XFCE theme, Vec had a vision ... the development team and the artists worked together to get that to where it is. Comments from the testing posts helped out very much. At first start of it, I wasn't so sure it would go very well, but after it started coming together, well you see how it is 

P.S.
      I prefer the badge be flashed in a James Bond movie style fashion, rather than the Linux Police 

[tomh38]

Masta,

All right, James Bond style it is.

"Linux.  Vector Linux."

I've tried some of the other XFCE themes, and none of them are as good.  I think it says something good about it that Compiz-Fusion actually makes it look worse.

This is just a thought, but have you guys considered doing a VL theme for Emerald?

Oh, I should mention that this guy I know who's a CS major is trying out Linux for the first time.  I gave him a copy of my VL 6.0 RC4 CD, and he installed it on his laptop.  He was really impressed with a lot of stuff, but he especially liked the professional look.  I think he was surprised that a Linux could look as good as Windows or OS X.

He asked me if I was sure that everybody in VL was a volunteer.  I told him that as far as I knew that was the case.

A lot of people think that it takes a big corporation with a lot of money to produce high-quality software.  That's not true of software, nor is it true of artwork.

Thanks again.

Tom

[tomh38]

Here's a link to a short review of VL 6 RC 4:

http://hansbrickersnonrandomthoughts.blogspot.com/

Tom

[Windozer]

Here's a link to a short review of VL 6 RC 4:
http://hansbrickersnonrandomthoughts.blogspot.com/

Tom,

thanks for posting the link --- this is an excellent review. The writing is clean, clear, and straightforward. The author covers many essential points such as who's who in VL, what its strengths in speed and install are, as well as covering the desktops, applications, admin - and, fairly, some of the problems he encountered.

The review goes into some detail, but also puts the VL distro into the context of greater Linux community.

I think we all should take a look at this review.

cheers
- Howard in Florida
~~~~~~~~~~~~

[caitlyn]

I'm going to engage in a rare bit of shameless self-promotion    I've written an article on VL-Hot for O'Reilly Broadcast at:  http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/02/vl-hot-a-non-polling-alternati.html.  In addition to explaining what VL-Hot is, what it does and how it works it also mentions Vector Linux a couple of times.

[metvas]

Hi Cait:
Thanks, I only wish we could promote you more.
Regards
Darrell

[Windozer]

[...]a rare bit of shameless self-promotion

Caitlyn,

please be shameless every time you write for the public. We all not only enjoy reading your work, but often learn something too.

thanks,
Howard